WARNING: Ethyl Glycol can Kill

[bryan_d]

Just a heads up to those that do not know.

I am sure everyone knows not to consume your coolant but pay attention to your pets! It can take only one teaspoon to kill your dog and far less for a cat. I had the misfortune of having a leaking resevoir that I had to drain quickly only to return to a huge puddle of coolant right beside my cat. Cats and dogs WILL lick the coolant because Ethyl Glycol smells sweet and they will drink it readily. What is even worse is that you will not know your pets have consumed this substance until it is too late. So basically if you see your pets acting drunk or stumbling about, the damage is already irreversible.

For more info check out this site:
http://www.petplace.com/cats/ethylene-glycol-toxicosis-in-cats/page1.aspx

I know many of you will say, "I leak check my system to make sure I do not have leaks", but so did I. 48Hrs of leaktesting to be exact. I was lucky enough that I got my cats to the clinic in time.

No more watercooling for me:(
http://i1.tinypic.com/n1e3i8.jpg
Bryan d

[custom90gt]

man that sucks, I'm just glad your cats are ok.

[dominick32]

Man,
I am really sorry to hear about this. A familiar thing happened to my girlfriend a few years ago. Her father left an open bucket of coolant in the garage, and the door wide open. Their cat smelled the coolant and drank a decent amount of it, only to seizure later on that night. It was a terrible accident, as well as your own. I am very sorry about this bro but glad that the cat made it out ok.

Dom

[SStrokerAce]

Yeah... you might want to look at EvansCooling.com if you want a alternative to this.

[Maviryk]

:cry: :cry: No more kitty!!! :cry: :cry:

[Electron Chaser]

I am glad to hear your pets are OK. You could think about changing coolant before you throw in the towel.

[Aidenswarrior]

if you get the "pet safe" antifreeze, it doesnt smell sweet to them and isnt as harmful. that is the **** i use as a just in case. you always could just not use antifreeze and just use something else.

[ƒÓÒl]

RV antifreeze (for an RV's watersystem) is the safest, being made for drinking water systems using Food Grade propylene glycol. The "pet safe" stuff is not food grade PG, but is considered safe.
The drawback is that the corrosion inhibitors are meant to be flushed out yearly and replenished, so no long term system running with this stuff...

[Amarkarian]

yo grats on saving your cat, if my dog died i wouldnt now what to do

[nicoliani]

You don't have to go that far as not to water cool because of Ethylene Glycol. Besides you don't need that poison or any other poison coolant in your system.
Distilled water is OK to use without anything else.
Check my post on this on a other thread. I gave up Ethylene Glycol because of health matter.


Huh? Oil and water don't mix. Now, I wonder how this combo works? Please elaborate, and most especially on the health issues you refer to.

Thanks,
MG

About my health I can tell, using distilled water and ethylene glycol 20%. I removed my fans so the water temp gets pretty high. I now use only a small external aluminum water tank.
So I started to have problems with my eye's, they started to itch and get red. Next I started to have stomach aches and muscles started to hurt in my legs. Next I ran for the toilet every time I started the computer. What I'm saying in this is that the ethylene fumes forced me to go an pee, and also that hurt allot.

I looked up everything about ethylene glycol and found this things happening to me described. It attacks kidney, brain, tissue, liver, blood-vessel and many other things.
You will wonder now, yes occurs if you drink it this will happened, and also drinking 100 ml will get your life.
But there is the fumes that we find irrelevant but they are relevant. And they easily get out of the system, wondering that small things like atoms you can not seal how much you try, and this fumes will cause this to you. The more temp there is in your loop the more affected you will get.

So as I said I use olive oil and water. The oil I use for grease my system, and it does it very well without me getting poisoned.

[bryan_d]

:cry: :cry: No more kitty!!! :cry: :cry:

No no,

My cats are still here but I still feel horrible for what had happened and just wanted to spread the word so other cats and owners do not have to go through the same ordeal as I.

I will look into the "pet safe" additives but right now I am getting out of the game because my girlfriend and I had to drop a great of money for these two guys. It was in the excess of $1,500.00 to get them treated. So if anyone wants to know, the antidote is roughly $600.00 a bottle.

http://i1.tinypic.com/n1qr2h.jpg

Thanks for the reponses guys,
Bryan d

[jcw122]

I'd say someone make this a

STICKY

because if it's true that many people use Ethyl Glycol, it should be something to put in the stickies as an important precaution.

[Evil_Eye]

/\

I second sticky.

[xdkimx]

after filling my w/c system with prestone's eth glycol antifreeze, i got some on a cut i had on my hand and it felt sore for 3 days or so lol

[Herr Rogers]

STICKY. I'm sure most of us would agree that we would rather have our pets than a good computer.

[Time4aMassiveOC]

AGREED STICKY
saftey should be as important as any OC

[Maviryk]

Sticky! I love kitties. Good to hear they're ok!

I wanna get one... as soon as I move in to my new apartment...

But yea, sticky, and more kitties! :clap:

[Nathan0490]

rgr I agree on a STICKY too.

btw that cat is awesome :santa:

[bryan_d]

Thanks guys,

I just found more info from www.care2.com:

"The toxic element in traditional antifreeze is ethylene glycol. The new kind of antifreeze contains not ethylene glycol, but propylene glycol, which is somewhat safer. In fact, propylene glycol is found in pet foods, cosmetics, and over-the-counter preparations."

Hopefully others hear the word,
Bryan d

[nachosyumm]

Hmmmm, that would explain why i felt weird after sucking out the coolant in the bottom of my loop.

Thanks for the heads up. I think ill use an alternative to it when i rebuild my computer over easter break. My only pet is a bird who is deadly afraid of even going near my computer, but I would rather be safe then sorry.

[JEmlay]

Wow, thank God they're ok. I would have never thought twice about them ever licking it up.

I had a pet die from eating poison from someone elses yard. It took a long time to get over it...... or did I get over it???

Anyway, I'm new to the WC game and am looking at a Exos-2. Shut up about cost!!!! :)

So before I actualy buy it and use it what does Koolance use in thier "coolant"? Is it harmful?

Koolance Coolant (http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=30_50&products_id=172)

[DvBoard]

glad to hear the kitty is ok. definattly somethign for those with pets to worry about.

[wa77ss]

STICKY

I was worried in the beginning, but a happy ending though. Cool cat !!! :) LoL.

[Amarkarian]

Stick eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[bryan_d]

So before I actualy buy it and use it what does Koolance use in thier "coolant"? Is it harmful?

Koolance Coolant (http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=30_50&products_id=172)
Sorry about your loss JEmlay... but unfortunetly, the Koolance liquid is not pet safe.

"70% distilled water
27-28% monoethylene glycol (anti-freeze)"

If you can find, SIERRA brand coolant, it contains pet safe additives.

And for those that asked
http://i1.tinypic.com/n1t4bb.jpg

[Jeff Moser]

Thats why I use onlyTHIS (http://cool-cases-usa.com/Zen-Cart-v1.2.4/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_9&products_id=5&zenid=6f56dd6fba51c6291056c0a3138438d8) in all my systems.

[z0n3]

I've probably injested a few oz of the stuff over the last few years. I never would have thought so small an amount could kill a cat or dog. Thanks for the info. I was keeping my extra coolent at the foot of my bed. Well not anymore. Does anyone know of a safe way to dump this stuff? I don't think it is safe to have it in my house now.

[bryan_d]

I've probably injested a few oz of the stuff over the last few years. I never would have thought so small an amount could kill a cat or dog. Thanks for the info. I was keeping my extra coolent at the foot of my bed. Well not anymore. Does anyone know of a safe way to dump this stuff? I don't think it is safe to have it in my house now.

Hit up your local autoparts store for more info. I know in my city we can get milk bottles and put used auto oil in them for garbage men to take away.

This is from www.greentruck.com:
"Used Antifreeze Disposal

If you do not reclaim/recycle your used antifreeze at your facility, it may be recycled offsite by an EPA-approved facility. If it is hazardous waste (because of its lead content), you must transport it by using a transporter with an EPA identification number and prepare it for transport appropriately. Used antifreeze that is mixed with other fluids must be characterized to determine if it is hazardous waste, and disposed of accordingly. Nonhazardous used antifreeze also may be disposed at a landfill that is authorized to accept used antifreeze. Many landfills have a tank designated for used antifreeze disposal. Used antifreeze may not be dumped with regular trash, poured into the sewer, or poured onto the ground.
Do's and Don'ts for Antifreeze Disposal

DO. . .Keep used antifreeze in a covered container and out of the way of animals, who are often attracted to its sweet flavor. Be sure your recycled antifreeze meets manufacturers' warranties for the vehicle you are servicing. As described above, recycle antifreeze by purchasing or leasing onsite recycling equipment; or using an offsite recycling service. Handle filters and other recycling by-products as hazardous waste.

DO NOT pour antifreeze into sewers, on the ground, or into floor drains, or mix used antifreeze with any other waste. Keep it separate.

DO NOT collect antifreeze in containers that have been used to hold other substances (e.g., gasoline) unless the containers have been thoroughly cleaned. Antifreeze can leach substances from the walls of a container.
For Additional information

Call the RCRA Hotline at 1-800-424-9346 for information on determining if your antifreeze is hazardous. "

[PWatterson]

I vote sticky. Safety..for anyone.. is the most important thing. Glad to hear your cat(s) came through it ok though.

[hawtrawkr]

if you get the "pet safe" antifreeze, it doesnt smell sweet to them and isnt as harmful. that is the **** i use as a just in case. you always could just not use antifreeze and just use something else.

i started using this type of antifreeze about a year or so ago and have continued to use it. i dont have any pets but i do have a 4 year old son and this crap looks alot like koolaid when its mixed up (i mix and store it in the gallon jugs the water comes in) figured it might not hurt to have this "low tox" antifreeze coupled with keeping it well out of sight and reach of him (didnt want a repeat of the day i went to answer the door and turned around to see hed pumped out a tube of as5 onto his hands.....)

[Romulox]

I've probably injested a few oz of the stuff over the last few years. I never would have thought so small an amount could kill a cat or dog. Thanks for the info. I was keeping my extra coolent at the foot of my bed. Well not anymore. Does anyone know of a safe way to dump this stuff? I don't think it is safe to have it in my house now.

Don't drink any more of it because its a reproductive hazard.
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ET/ethylene_glycol.html
I had to look up info about this for chem class and I always use this site to find info about chemicals.
http://www.physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/#CASnumbers
But its helpful if you know the cas number of the chemical.

propylene glycol is a food preservative.
Its kinda of funny that just one methyl group makes this stuff edible.

[JEmlay]

Sorry about your loss JEmlay... but unfortunetly, the Koolance liquid is not pet safe.

"70% distilled water
27-28% monoethylene glycol (anti-freeze)"

If you can find, SIERRA brand coolant, it contains pet safe additives.


Damn...see, I never would have thought twice. Thanks for the info!

We should get a running list of "SAFE" coolants and how to mix them. In other words, how many oz. per gallon. I see different measurements for different additivies.

[bryan_d]

Awesome infor Romulx,

So no it not only pose as a poison for our pets and family but now we know it can actually screw with our "boys".

I oughta read more about the chems I use,
Bryan d

[PhoenixOfChaos]

Man that sucks hardcore glad your cat(s) lived, definitely will be remembering this in the future when I go watercooling as my new kitten (found the lil' guy around the local elementary school's lawn when I was running one day) would most likely be interested. If he got into it it would be the second cat I could've lost, my other cat when I was like 12 drank antifreeze and the vet put it on an alcohol drip to clean it out.

DOH! thats why my cat did it, it had a hard day and wanted that vodka iv :beer:

[tRidiot]

Wow, that sucks, but if I were you, I think I'd find another vet, because the one you have probably ripped you off insanely. $600 a bottle is pretty damn steep for ethanol. :(

[MoreGooder]

Man, this is some interesting stuff here. I changed out my rig a few weeks ago, and had spilled some Pentosin antifreeze (EG based) mixture (about 10% concentration) on my rug. Probably spilled about 2 cups of the mixture. I sopped it up with towels and threw them in the laundry. I haven't been feeling ill or anything, in fact I feel fantastic. BUT, should I steam clean the rug or even throw it out? With regards to the towels, I'm sure they've been through at least 5 or 6 loads of laundry by now.

[tRidiot]

Yes, that's right, ethanol, everclear, plain old alcohol. That's what we use IV in humans and I would bet 95% it's the same for animals. But then.... it's a little harder to charge an arm and a leg and justify it when your customers know that it ain't some miracle drug.

Oh well, all's well that ends well, right? And you've got your cats to this day. :) Grats!

[Kil4Thril]

Yep, straight up alcohol is what I've always used (Vet Tech). EverClear 190 is what we keep in our emergency kit. Either some animal gets it, or we mix it with Crystal Light :D

[Fferrett]

Use a polypropylene glycol coolant instead of a eth solution... much safer coolant and wont kill the little personable fuzzballs - even ferrets...

It can be found at motocycle racing or atv stores...

[fordman]

Hello

Thankgod your pets are safe. I had a cat that looked like that and he was 38 lbs at his heaveiest. (all he ate was cat food from the vet). I have drank antifreeze by accident from changing it in my car and have spilled it on me in cuts. Thankgod im still here. Yes I did know the dangers before hand. I will start my water cooling this summer when I get my new rig and I will be looking for something safer since I have a 2 year old here at home. This should become a sticky to warn all about the dangers of using auto antifreeze/coolant.

Fordman

[Fferrett]

Use a polypropylene glycol coolant instead of a eth solution... much safer coolant and wont kill the little personable fuzzballs - even ferrets...

It can be found at motocycle racing or atv stores...


Found a link for one of the products: http://www.engineice.cc

Below is from the prodcut FAQ:


What is Engine Ice Hi-Performance Coolant TM, what makes it different?

Engine Ice Hi-Performance Coolant tm utilizes a base fluid called Propylene Glycol. This base fluid has been proven to be relatively harmless to plants, animals and the environment, while being an excellent base fluid for an engine coolant. We take this non-toxic base, along with various inhibitors and dilute it with the most pure water possible, Deionized Water.

How hazardous is regular antifreeze?

A scant two ounces of any ethylene glycol-type antifreeze can kill a small animal (dog), one teaspoon can be lethal to a cat, and two tablespoons can be hazardous to children resulting in painful internal/intestinal problems possibly leading to coma and even death. Ethylene glycol is also harmful to plant life.

[z0n3]

Don't drink any more of it because its a reproductive hazard.
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ET/ethylene_glycol.html


Reproductive hazard? Well that isn't good. :bang head I'm not actually drinking the stuff but I have gotten some in/on me when doing leak tests.

Thanks for the info on getting rid of this stuff. Turns out the local recycling center takes hazardous waste so I should be getting it out of the house by the end of the week.

[voigts]

Sorry to hear about the cats. I have an outside dog only who really would like to kill cats if she had the chance.

Antifreeze is not THAT harmful to humans unless ingested somehow. If it was, I would be dead by now for all of the times I have gotten it all over me draining/flushing the rads in my cars over the years. Not to mention all of the auto mechanics out there.

[SStrokerAce]

after filling my w/c system with prestone's eth glycol antifreeze, i got some on a cut i had on my hand and it felt sore for 3 days or so lol

Jesus, try working on motors and cars... Dexcool hurts like a champ in about any cut. I've been there done that more than a few times.

FWIW, Dexcool (Propylene Glycol) is much safer and better at what it does compared to the ole Green Antifreeze..... but if you are going to run something distilled water and water wetter are just fine.

Basically go look for the red/orange coolant at the stores.

Bret

[sir_pyro]

Just the Invotech (sp?) non condiuctive stuff. It's food grade, and you can actually drink the crap your self (though it's not advised). Not to mention if you have a leek, you're still good to go untill you can prepare to drain it.

[nicoliani]

Don't drink any more of it because its a reproductive hazard.
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ET/ethylene_glycol.html
I had to look up info about this for chem class and I always use this site to find info about chemicals.
http://www.physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/#CASnumbers
But its helpful if you know the cas number of the chemical.

propylene glycol is a food preservative.
Its kinda of funny that just one methyl group makes this stuff edible.

R23 Toxic by inhalation.

Instead of holding my breath during the time I use my comp, I instead wiped out the poison from my system

[hawtrawkr]

R23 Toxic by inhalation.

Instead of holding my breath during the time I use my comp, I instead wiped out the poison from my system

shouldnt it have been in a sealed loop? havent heard of many people using r23 alot of r22 and blends though. id definantly want to distance myself from that probably prefer to have a lp system.

[Rysjimmy1994]

Sorry to hear about your loss... I know when I put my system together, I was super cautious about the antifreeze, but I never thought about if it would leak... I am going to have to get some "Pet safe" coolant.

[sunrunner20]

Well, I'm glad to hear that your cat made it through OK. I've got three of my own thus i'm pretty controlling of where our chemicals are stored.

[Bigg]

Glad to hear the cats are OK. This thread should be stuck. What is the big deal about these coolants and finding weird coolants that are pet-safe? Why not use distilled water, it is pet and people-safe, and it is like $2 at the local grocery store? Thats what I will do when I go liquid, to be cat-safe and to be cheap.

[Cyrix_2k]

I'm voting for this to be a sticky too.

I knew anti-freeze was toxic, but had no idea it was that toxic! Atleast I don't have to worry about my dog. I use a very small amount of isopropal alcohal in my loop. It works great... plus I should be able to smell it if I ever have a leak.

Glad your cats are okay :)

[Moto7451]

If you want to be 100% safe, run just distilled and exchange fluids every month or so. Having no additive is the safest solution for pets and the environment. The best practical solution is Propylene Glycol.

[XeonStrikeForce]

Pets and Children will drink it, children think it is KoolAid or other type drink, and it cuases crystels to form in brain tissue and so fourth, Methyl Alcahol is equaly deadly albeit its much more synister as it will absorb through the skin given enough exposure, but consumption is the deadliest form of introduction, Any coolant that has NitroAmins is all so very bad for Animals (Yes Animals includes us, we are an animal (Just a very profitiant one with our technology))

I too agree this aut to be a sticky as (Unfortunatly as it may be) Too meny are way too sub par of their knowledge of the dangers of coolants that are commonly used in thees types of systems (Water weter contains Methyl Hydrate which is quite poisonus to animals)

[Bigg]

Why does Distilled have to be changed? In a closed system shouldn't it last just about forever?

[bryan_d]

Why does Distilled have to be changed? In a closed system shouldn't it last just about forever?

Yes but there is no way to gurantee that you don't get any bacteria or any sort of growth. Thanks for all the responses guys! My cats are doing awesome now and I have been doing more research to find that so far, throwing in the towel might not be the only solution!

Keep the responses coming to get the word out!
Bryan d

[JEmlay]

How about this stuff:

Fluid XP+ (http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-liq-16.html?id=uciiCuGj)

It wont give you the best temps but it's safe and non-conductive. Does anyone have any experience with it?

[Maviryk]

So when is this getting a STICKY!?

Oh, btw, a good thing about distilled water, if you rinse out your loop before hand with distilled, then fill it up with distilled, it is generally NON-CONDUCTIVE. Test it with a DMM sometime. Couple years back when I was flushing my loop I found out that it had leaked on my 6800nu and had dried up. I had been running with a slow leak for 3 weeks!

BUT, algae will grow inside a pure distilled water loops after 1-3 months, depending on how contaminated your loop is.

P.s. Does your cat like to attack the mouse pointer? More pics! : clap :

[bryan_d]

So when is this getting a STICKY!?

P.s. Does your cat like to attack the mouse pointer? More pics! : clap :

Hehe,

Yes he loves to chase that mouse pointer for hours on end. It gets annoying when I have homework though!

http://i1.tinypic.com/nf5zxl.jpg

Keep the comments coming,
Bryan d

[Sneaky]

So as I said I use olive oil and water. The oil I use for grease my system, and it does it very well without me getting poisoned.

what tha? why would you need to grease your system? and how does oil & water mix!? :eh?:

[PhoenixOfChaos]

what tha? why would you need to grease your system? and how does oil & water mix!? :eh?:

I didn't catch that on my first read through, now I am VERY confused.

I've been told Oil + Water = no go, apparently I was wrong :shrug:

[schnikies79]

It's pretty bad what it does to animals. it crystallizes their kidneys so they die of poisoning.. :( I'm sorry to hear about your cat..

[eobard]

1) Ya scared the hell outta me.

2) I am so glad the cats are ok.

3) Ya scared the hell outta me.

4) This really isn't my sandbox anymore but, STUCK. (how could I not?)

5) Ya scared the hell outta me.

6) I am so glad the cats are ok.

I'll leave it to the current cooling mods to decide where this should go and how long it should stay stuck.

[nicoliani]

what tha? why would you need to grease your system? and how does oil & water mix!? :eh?:

The oil grease itself toward the aluminum and tubing. It's purpose is to protect against corrosion. It's like a shield between the aluminum and the water. The oil fat attache do the parts of your watercooler and protect them. This is how Ethylene Glycol works but this alternitive is no-poison.

How does olive oil & water mix!?

No problem. OK the oil doesn't dissolve but that's good, because that's how it can protect.

[z0n3]

Congrats on the sticky. :beer: :clap:

[mayaman]

Weird thing about ehtylene glycol is that it isn't actually poisonous, but the chemical produced when it is broken down by the liver is extremely ****ing bad for you, as in frying your liver, brain, basically all living tissues in your body. Thats what I read anyways. Kind of ****ed up that the government hasn't mandated a switch to propylene glycol considering coolant goes into every car on earth. Funny how that works, a little pot is outlawed because it might be bad for some people, ehtylene glycol kills anything that drinks it and even with an easy alternative it is kept around.

[p|astic]

lol... how can you compare bud to anti freeze?

[JEmlay]

Funny how that works, a little pot is outlawed because it might be bad for some people, ehtylene glycol kills anything that drinks it and even with an easy alternative it is kept around.

Hum...that has to be the most ridiculous comparison I've ever read. So if it can't be consumed it should be outlawed? So we should outlaw 90%+ of all consumer based products??? Would anyone like some propaganda?

Maybe we should try to stay on topic.

[mayaman]

Oh yeah, staying on topic, guess I should do that...

Well I had a point, and it is valid, I dont care if you personally don't get it, really, I don't, but for clarification, just in case it was my fault that you didn't understand it, I am providing this expansion on my original statement.

The government bothers me, see, they regulate this that and the other because they have determined that it is "bad" for us, therefore, we shouldn't consume whatever it is. But, ethylene glycol, which is highly toxic, even in small amounts, has a viable alternative in propylene glycol but no action is taken to mandate a switch to propylene glycol for the safety of the populace. Considering anti-freeze is often simply dumped rather than disposed of properly, not only out of ignorance, but to save money in the instance of some auto-mechanics.

Its just an example of the governments dissonance when it comes to their favorite past-time of protecting people from themselves.

My main reason for bringing this up is to wonder if anything is being done to encourage the use of propylene glycol over ethylene glycol. This thread is all about safety so why not encourage safety on a political level? If there was a mandate in place that encouraged the switch from the highly toxic ethylene to the less toxic propylene this thread probably wouldn't even exist. This isn't a pro-bud argument, its anti-ethylene glycol argument. To me weed is a about as dangerous as tobacco, maybe less dangerous. There is a lot of evidence that I have read that indicates even low-level exposure to ethylene glycol can cause long-term neurological and organ damage.

You talk about eliminating all consumer products and I don't agree with that, but at the same time I think the studies that these products are put through in determining their safety ignore the fact that people are often exposed to a huge variety of chemicals not just the chemicals from the product in the study.

[Seanohue]

The government does not have to hold your hand.

[mayaman]

Yeah I realize that, its actually my point if you read my post a little more carefully. A clear and easy alternative exists that is non-toxic, why not force companies to use only that product? Makes sense to me from a personal safety and environmental safety point of view.

[JEmlay]

This is ridiculous. Your points are not very well thought out. You use the term "government" as if it's some separate society in which THE PEOPLE do not control. Your precious "pot" is regulated by all of us. You are a minority therefore you get no pot.

As for you being an environmentalist...why are you stopping at coolant? Do you have any clue as to the amount of destruction we have seen from oil? Seems to me since there are electric cars then all oil bases vehicles need to be removed from the streets. After all NO ONE ever dumps used oil!

"This isn't a pro-bud argument, its anti-ethylene glycol argument."
I'm glad even you agree you had no business bringing it up.

"To me weed is a about as dangerous as tobacco, maybe less dangerous."
...hum... but then you bring it up again. More propaganda anyone?

How far are you willing to go to justify your pot?

[citronym]

Eh leave him alone its just the pot talking.

[eobard]

Hi everyone I'm thread monitoring.

[mayaman]

This is ridiculous. Your points are not very well thought out. You use the term "government" as if it's some separate society in which THE PEOPLE do not control.

Your naivete disturbs me.

[eobard]

Lemme explain something. When I say "Hi everyone I'm thread monitoring." that's a hint that everyone should stop the arguing and bring the thread back to it's root computer-related intent, which was a warning to people about Ethyl Glycol. Because if that doesn't happen I will suspend people's memberships to restore order. You want to disagree about govornment or politics with other members, take it off the forums.

[soulfly1448]

I, too, am glad that your cats are o.k. I hope this same thing doesn't happen with the stuff you sold me. I've got a little kitten myself.

[nicoliani]

Lemme explain something. When I say "Hi everyone I'm thread monitoring." that's a hint that everyone should stop the arguing and bring the thread back to it's root computer-related intent, which was a warning to people about Ethyl Glycol. Because if that doesn't happen I will suspend people's memberships to restore order. You want to disagree about govornment or politics with other members, take it off the forums.

:argue: :bang head :shrug: :clap:

Just do as me. Use olive oil. I haven't had no problema with it.


This one is from the Zalman forum:

I contacted Zalman about their coolant about 6 months ago. They could give a rats ass and I'm suprised they haven't been sued yet. No where in the manual, or on the website do they have any warnings about the content of their coolant, which is glycol with dye other then don't swallow it. I actually broke out in severe dermatitis (skin rash) all over my face and hands after installing my reserator 6 months ago. I had to take time off work and get prescription hydrocordizone to heal. Being this product is aimed for entry level consumers, I feel this was a horrible thing zalman has done by not pritning valuable warnings with this coolant and I'll never buy another Zalman product again. You have no idea how much grief the whole incident caused me. Imagine waking up one morning with a swollen face full of puss and having to face people at work etc. I pondered a law suit but quickly concluded it was a waste of time, at least for me.


Please, take a look at this information site on Glycol and its effects. You can die of kidney failure if you swallow glycol, thats how serious it is. Let me once again remind you that Zalman barley skims over the affects this chemical can do to you, or your family/pets.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg96.html

[JEmlay]

Wow. I haven't looked myself however if it's true that they give no warning then that's where they blew it big time. There is still nothing wrong with selling items that require care. But they MUST MUST MUST be labeled properly.

"You can die of kidney failure if you swallow glycol, thats how serious it is."
You can die if you swallow bleach. But in that case it properly states as such. Aside from little critters lapping it up I don't see where the average person will drink coolant???? I also seriously doubt kids will mistake it as Kool aid. But I guess it "could" happen thus all products need warnings.

I think his case was a rare exception. Obviously people everywhere are not breaking out in rashes. But I can certainly understand his concern and dis-like for the company.

I just looked at two different bottles of coolant and they both state exactly what they should. The harms of exposure and ingestion.

Side Story:
I tried the new "Crest Pro-Health Rinse" mouthwash and after two days I started to notice that things tasted very bland. After one more day of using it (not realizing the connection) I couldn't taste anything at all. I put 2 and 2 together then and stopped using it. For about a week I couldn't taste anything at all. I was obviously a rare case. However we no longer buy any crest product at all.

Side Story 2:
When I was...??? 4 maybe... I wanted to see what was inside a bottle. So I picked it up and tilted it towards the light so I could get a better look. After having dumped rubbing alcohol in my eye and on my face I was screaming like a banshee. Crap happens and they still sell rubbing alcohol. But then again it didn't kill me either. I'm sure we can all think of "harmful" stories.

Funny what you can remember isn't it? :)

[atomicfire]

mmmm off topic arguments..


anyways, i'm using ethylene glycol additive as well, Zerex actually. It smelled funny, but i'm thinking as long as theres no leak and i'm not bathing in the fluid i'm not in danger of dying from ethylene gylcol poisoning. No pets too.

Otherwise, some commen sense, like keeping bottles capped, labeled, and out of reach of kiddies\idiots\pets and such should keep most of the problems away.


EDIT :eek: :
Calcium oxalate crystals are deposited in the brain, lungs, kidneys, and heart.

[nicoliani]

You're not in danger of dying but you will get health issues because of the fumes.

[hawtrawkr]

You're not in danger of dying but you will get health issues because of the fumes.


how will he be effected by fumes if its in a closed loop?

[citronym]

You're not in danger of dying but you will get health issues because of the fumes.
Some people are hyper-sensitive to fumes from glycol. MOST people won't ever have a problem from the fumes. In a closed loop, the chances of problems are highly improbable.

[voigts]

OK, so if propylene glycol is the better way to go, then can someone tell me where on earth to find any? The auto parts stores here do not carry it in any way, shape, or form, and I don't want to spend $7 + shipping to get any from cool-cases-usa just for one use.

[Fferrett]

OK, so if propylene glycol is the better way to go, then can someone tell me where on earth to find any? The auto parts stores here do not carry it in any way, shape, or form, and I don't want to spend $7 + shipping to get any from cool-cases-usa just for one use.

Goto an ATV, motocross, motorcycle, or Snomobile store...

http://www.engineice.cc/ Its a safe propylene glycol mix.

In Tennessee:
http://www.southernhonda.com/eshopprod_cat_1674-5997-6499_product_154833_keyword_coolant.ENGINE_ICE.htm

[voigts]

Originally Posted by Fferrett:
In Tennessee: http://www.southernhonda.com/eshopp....ENGINE_ICE.htm

Thanks for the link. That place is only about 10 minutes from my house. I will have to go by there and take a look at it later this week. Does anyone know what color this Engine Ice is? I'd like to find clear or blue.

[Fferrett]

Thanks for the link. That place is only about 10 minutes from my house. I will have to go by there and take a look at it later this week. Does anyone know what color this Engine Ice is? I'd like to find clear or blue.

Blue... But tastes like cherry...

(just kidding.. don't taste it.)

[voigts]

blue is up my alley, although I'm not sure about the cherry part...

This makes me question as to whether there is something out there that is just an anticorrosive without any kind of glycol. We don't need the glycol in PC watercooling (except of course for serious phase change), and just plain anticorrosive would serve the purpose. I know that water wetter is supposed to serve this purpose, but I have read too many people having problems with it.

[nicoliani]

how will he be effected by fumes if its in a closed loop?

Can you see the fumes, no. That's because they are micro small. And no matter how good you seal your loop fumes get out. That's way many also complain of smell from their additives.

[nicoliani]

blue is up my alley, although I'm not sure about the cherry part...

This makes me question as to whether there is something out there that is just an anticorrosive without any kind of glycol. We don't need the glycol in PC watercooling (except of course for serious phase change), and just plain anticorrosive would serve the purpose. I know that water wetter is supposed to serve this purpose, but I have read too many people having problems with it.

You need something fat in your loop. It's to grease your parts and the pump. Besides fat (oil) will prevent water bubbles that will make your pump going noisy.

[voigts]

All I see fat doing is coating the metal making heat transfer a lot less efficient. Direct contact between water and metal is the whole point. And fatty oil does not lubricate the pump especially. If anything, it clogs it up. Fatty oil is not water soluble vs lubricants included in most additives that dissolve into the water. Hence I would think that fatty oil would work very poorly.

[nicoliani]

I once ran my loop with only destilled water. And after 5 day's the noise was so laud it thought my sysem would explode. I put some olive oil and the sound never came back. Besides the temp didn't rise significent. Even if the metal is cooling the water for most it's a myth that it will lower the temps significant.
The solution is to have a large Reservoir like the Zalman Reserator that contains allot of water which work better than having noisy fans with small Reservoirs.
Allot of water is the solution for low temp. http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/boxer.gif

[voigts]

1. metal doesn't cool the water- water transfers heat away from the metal to something else like a rad that then cools the water by dissipating the heat into the air

2. Having a "large" reservoir makes no difference unless you are talking a tank like 20 gallons or something with a huge surface are to dissipate heat. The reservator is nothing more than a reservoir with something to increase the surface area and heat transfer. And the reservator sucks as far as performance is concerned.

3. reservoirs exist for filling/bleeding-nothing more, nothing less.

4. it does not take noisy fans to cool well. if you use a larger rad than what you need, you can use low cfm fans and cool well. In my case I use a car rad with NO fans and it will cool whatever I throw at it all day long.

I realize this is not exactly pertaining to the thread, but I just can't let myself let these go.

[veryhumid]

Did you really stop watercooling?

[bryan_d]

Did you really stop watercooling?

Was this question directed to me? If so, then yes. No more watercooling for me since I sold all my uber parts in the classifieds.

Not only did I get rid of my uber watercooling, but also got rid of my X2 3800+ @ 2.5GHz and 6800 Ultra (CPU sold on craigslist, and 6800 died!) No I run a Sempron 3100+ at 2.25GHz and a 9800 Pro @ XT, and cooled with a passive ninja and first gen AC silencer. Life is better though, much more gaming and less fiddiling around!

Bryan d

[1stOVERCLOCKER]

i happen to have had a problem similar to this when i was working on my dads car when i was younger i went to the garage the day after and my cat was yowling and i noticed the antifreeze bottle so i got in the car and took him to the vet where i had to pay like 538dollars to get him the med and then he was OK

[bryan_d]

i happen to have had a problem similar to this when i was working on my dads car when i was younger i went to the garage the day after and my cat was yowling and i noticed the antifreeze bottle so i got in the car and took him to the vet where i had to pay like 538dollars to get him the med and then he was OK

I am glad that it all went well for you too! The vet and the poison control people told me that if it is after 30 mins, it gets critical... the vet even suggested to enjoy my cat while I could... even being well trained by society, I shed a tear when he said that. Thankfully he and his brother are alright.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nancheesy/longarmjoji.jpg
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/4108/reachoutnook9cm.jpg

Bryan d

[max_clock]

thank God your cat is ok...When I was 11 years old, my first cat died in a car accident and I never got trough it :cry: . But thats not the bad thing. The bad thing is that passed a year or so, my second cat died the same way and in the same place, thankfully his sister stills here with me after all this years :)
Cool cat you got there..I love cats

[RJARRRPCGP]

Just a heads up to those that do not know.

I am sure everyone knows not to consume your coolant but pay attention to your pets! It can take only one teaspoon to kill your dog and far less for a cat. I had the misfortune of having a leaking resevoir that I had to drain quickly only to return to a huge puddle of coolant right beside my cat. Cats and dogs WILL lick the coolant because Ethyl Glycol smells sweet and they will drink it readily. What is even worse is that you will not know your pets have consumed this substance until it is too late. So basically if you see your pets acting drunk or stumbling about, the damage is already irreversible.

For more info check out this site:
http://www.petplace.com/cats/ethylene-glycol-toxicosis-in-cats/page1.aspx

I know many of you will say, "I leak check my system to make sure I do not have leaks", but so did I. 48Hrs of leaktesting to be exact. I was lucky enough that I got my cats to the clinic in time.

No more watercooling for me:(
http://i1.tinypic.com/n1e3i8.jpg
Bryan d

Close call for my cat back in September, 2004, (or October, 2004) was freaking out, because my cat snuck outside after a person I was with spilled coolant when working on his Honda Civic hatchback. I once caught my cat going into the area that the car was being worked on! :eek:

I wanted my cat to stay in the house until he was done working on his car!

[capmuffin]

Glad I read this the stuff I found with I ordered last year contains EG. My poor molly!

[Caffinehog]

Yes, that's right, ethanol, everclear, plain old alcohol. That's what we use IV in humans and I would bet 95% it's the same for animals. But then.... it's a little harder to charge an arm and a leg and justify it when your customers know that it ain't some miracle drug.

Oh well, all's well that ends well, right? And you've got your cats to this day. :) Grats!

Yeah, ethanol is the solution to ethylene glycol or methanol poisoning.
Ethylene glycol and methanol are not particularly harmful in the alcohol form, but the body breaks them down into highly toxic compounds: Glyoxal from ethylene glycol, and formaldehyde for methanol. Ethanol is broken down into acetaldehyde, which is only mildly toxic. (read: it only gives you a hangover.)
By giving ethanol, you overload the metabolic pathway with ethanol, slowing down the breakdown of ethylene glycol, which keeps the toxin levels low.

Theoretically, if you caught them drinking antifreeze, you could save your animal by force-feeding them shots of vodka. This would be tough, though, because you'd have to get them totally wasted, but not give too much. (alcohol is toxic, too!) I wouldn't try it unless you had no other chance of saving your pet. Keep in mind that for a 10lb cat, one shot is like 20 shots for a 200lb man!
And beer won't work for dogs. Hops are toxic to dogs. A few ounces of beer won't hurt a dog, but a whole can might, especially if it is a hoppy beer.
And for what it's worth, aspirin is a DEADLY toxin to cats. Never give a cat aspirin, and if you drop one, MAKE SURE YOU FIND IT!!!!!

[Caffinehog]

BTW: Ethylene glycol is not anticorrosive. Other chemicals in antifreeze are... and are probably the cause of the rashes and irritation that some are experiencing. Ethylene glycol is only used to increase the boiling point and lower the freezing point of the coolant. That's all. Nothing else. No other purpose.
Antifreeze also contains lubricants, which make your car's water pump last longer.
So if you could just get the additives and use them without ethylene glycol, it would probably be the best thing to use in your computer. It makes me suspect that some of the coolant additives that you see in auto parts stores might be the best thing to add to your water. You should be able to get all the benefits of antifreeze with none of the toxicity!

[RJARRRPCGP]

Warning, calk can contain ethylene glycol!

This is new to me!

[Silversinksam]

No more watercooling for me:(

Bryan d


Bryan,

No need to give up h20 cooling, there's no law that says you have to use Ethyl Glycol. I watercool and I have 2 cats and I sure as heck wouldn't use it.

[bryan_d]

Bryan,
No need to give up h20 cooling, there's no law that says you have to use Ethyl Glycol. I watercool and I have 2 cats and I sure as heck wouldn't use it.

You are right in that I should not have given up watercooling, but now that I have I find that I am actually "enjoying" my computer more!

But I will add that watercooling is just so good as far performance. My Scythe Ninja has absolutely nothing compared to my old Storm:cry:

Just another reminder to all, that Ethyl Glycol is actually a threat to your reproductive health.

So please, Low Tox use for all!
Bryan d

[wun911]

The reason why your dogs and cats love to drink ethylene glycol is because ethylene glycol is sweet!!! (as in sugar sweet as in taste sweet) Personally I havent had a swig of this myself.... But here in Australia some of our carzy native australians do drink the stuff and sniff petrol for a high.....

The rason why its green is just the same reasn why rat sack poison is green so pplz dont drink it!!!

Ethylene glycol is very similar in structure to ethanol !!! Just like ethanol when we consume it in the form of wine (penfolds is my favourite sometimes brown brothers when I feel like it) we get intoxicated.

The strange thing about ethylene glycol is that when you do drink it you feel sick and we go to the doc..... The doc will prescribe you a bottle of Vodka!!!

Yes its true Vodka!!! because..... when your body breaks down ethylene glycol it turns toxic product. The doc will shove vodka down your throat so you body will break down the vodka instead of the ethylene glycol. (A competive enzyme inhibition assay or first year basic bio chem text book) Yes drink this stuff for a free bottle of vodka from your local GP!!!

You can help save your dogs cats and kids in a similar way untill the parmedics come to your house....

Interms of its toxic "nature" it does not cause cancer or anythink that nasty it is only toxic when ingested.

[bryan_d]

Hey wun911,

Yeah when I called the animal poison center they suggested giving my cats some beer or any alcoholic beverage to combat the negative effects of ethylene glycol. And as mentioned before, my cats were administered alcohol through an IV, I believe... man that stuff costs a lot. It's funny because when the Vet was talking on the phone she had a bottle of Vodka in her hand and she was reading out the label to the person on the other line.

One thing that people have to remember, its that the vodka or alcohol trick can only work before the Ethyl Glycol hits the liver, cuz after that... well only your little buddy :(

I think I remember the vet and the poison control people telling me that it was maximum 30 mins of a time frame for the alcohol trick.

Keep your animals and yourselves safe!
Bryan d

[penguin463]

I will definately watch for this when i start WC'ing my rig

I would hate to come home and find my dog lapping a leak or something. That would be bad >.<

[XeonStrikeForce]

but keep in mind Ethenol absords hundreds of times faster into the system!

I personaly use propelyne glycol for my chiller (Food grade, ie 100% safe)

[blink922]

I'm sorry man, sucks losing a pet. I guess you just gotta be really careful with pets around your wc setup.

[Immortal_Hero]

I have a new kitten and I am getting ready to change my loop. I was wondering if anyone uses just plain distilled water. Does it hurt cooling? It sure would be safer for this guy:
http://webpages.charter.net/zmaddox5306/Images/08-31-2006-002.jpg
Yes that is a riped up computer case (Antec Super Lan Boy) behind him. It's his toy. :beer:

[Bob Vila]

I had a dog that was poisoned with antifreeze by a demented neighbor. The vet thought it was something completely different but when all of our other neighbors dogs starting dying with similar symptoms we put two and two together.

Couldn't prove anything to the cops but the demented neighbor was vocal about how he did it. And we assumed it was him to begin with because he always complained about the noise and threatened to "do" something about it. The end of it was when someone found him running around at night with a container in someone's backyard. The dog's water smelled like antifreeze. At least someone's dog lived through all of this.

With all of that cops couldn't do anything before the guy moved away. The demented neighbor moved because he couldn't afford the loss of four tires every week, no windows on his house, and couldn't mow his lawn without suffering black eyes.

To this day I really miss my dog.

[Immortal_Hero]

Think I got a little last night. I have this bad habit of blowing coolant out of lines to clear a loop. I clean off the end of the tubing, I may have gotten a drop but not enough to have an effect. I think I got some vapors/mist from blowing it out of the tubes. 15 minutes later I had a horrible stomach ache and the rest of the eve I felt like I was drunk and was having trouble walking. Humm pretty potent. I was using pure TT coolant which I beleive it pure Ethyl Glycol.

[Alacritan]

Could a mod remove nicoliani's posting privledges before he spreads any more wildly inaccurate information?

[DrunkenCat]

i had somthing like that happen to me by mistake lol i was so stuped lol well here is my story with anti freez lol i desided one night to change my water cooling water it was starting to look fogy lol so it was about time to change it well for some reasion that day i was drinking water like crazy lol and like i had 3 bottels of water near me or water so i started draining my cooling system and i used one of my empty bottels to put my bad coolent in lol and affter i did that i put it asside and for got to put the cap on it and i started filling my water system and drinking my other bottle of water will i was doing thiss after i was all done i closed up my case and started gaming lol wile i was gaming i had my bottels of water near me well me being stuped picked up the rong bottle lol u can guess what i got runing down my mouth lol well i took a big gulp and like spit it out because somthing dident tast right lol well enouf it was my old coolent water lol well after going to the wash room and trying to get as much out as i chould i started to feel all dizzy and stuff like i felt like **** i quickly ran to my bottle of anti freez and read the lables lol shur enouf it said may cause blinding so i was liik WTF lol and ran to the phone and called poision controll lol at like 3 am at night lol so then i got rushed to the hispital thay took blood and stuck a tube in me and took all the crap out lol i got pumped lol wow im never goingg to do that ever agan let me tell u never put coolent in to a bottle that looks like a water bottle lmao i learned the hard way lol i was sick for like a week lol dam i felt like **** lol so there is my stuped moment in my hole entire life lol at least im oke now and ya i still got 20-20 eye site :P so im all good lol

[Banyan]

saw ops sig in another post he did and i thought i'd check it out. big props to you (bryan_d) for posting this and also to the mod that stickied it. glad your cats are well... i'd need a straight jacket if something happened to my little ****s.

[bryan_d]

i got rushed to the hispital thay took blood and stuck a tube in me and took all the crap out

Holy Cow!

Glad to hear that you made it out alright. Glad that this thread is still being read too. So sorry to hear about the pets and people who have been hurt by this thing...

DrunkenCat, you should be glad that they did not give you the "lead" treatment, or was it another heavy metal, I cannot remember. But I know someone's uncle who swallowed some coolant and they had to make him ingest some sort of heavy metal to try and neutralize the coolants side effects. Scary stuff indeed.

Take care all, and remember that PROPYLENE GLYCOL is your friend! :)

Bryan d

[leaddraft]

yeah my cat loved the stuff too
:rose:

[jopapa1267]

anyone have a picture of how this looks mixed with water?

[Pyrotechnic]

I've been running the green Prestone Ethyl Glycol coolant in mine for a few years now. I knew the poisonous qualities of it and I do have 2 cats but I never really thought it would be a big deal since I havent had issues with leaks. When I bring my computer home from the dorm over the summer i'll definetly be switching out the coolant to something propylene glycol based. I'll defintely start out the new W/C rig and system I plan to build over the summer on the safe stuff too.

Can anyne recommend a propylene glycol antifreeze that ISN'T ORANGE like the GM Dexcool stuff? I hate the way that stuff looks in my tubing. I'm fine with any color but orange.

Also, does will propylene glycol react badly with plastics or PVC? I have a PVC resivoir. I remember reading something awhile back that it would eat away PVC.

[Brolloks]

Here is some yellow propylene glycol based coolant you could use, it is safe on all metals and PVC
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ant.aspx

and some green prop glycol as well

http://www.sierraantifreeze.com/benefit.html you can get from ACE or NAPA

[Pyrotechnic]

Awesome. I think the Sierra stuff is going to be the most cost effective. Need to remember to pick up a jug of that and do and flush and fill on my system once I bring my computer back from the dorm at the beginning of summer. Ethylene Glycol is fine at the dorm though with the no pets rule though.

I vote that this thread should be made a sticky, just as a constant reminder to us and a warning to new H2O cooling enthusiastes.

[Moto7451]

anyone have a picture of how this looks mixed with water?

Without any coloring agent it's clear.

Also green antifreeze is supposed to have silicates in it unless it specifically states otherwise. These can be bad for Liang pumps.

[CrazyIrish]

Bump for an informative and still very relavent thread.

[Maviryk]

I find that Zerex + Providine Iodine makes for a very bitter tasting coolant. I doubt my sweetie will try to drink it.

[turkey4550]

RV antifreeze (for an RV's watersystem) is the safest, being made for drinking water systems using Food Grade propylene glycol. The "pet safe" stuff is not food grade PG, but is considered safe.
The drawback is that the corrosion inhibitors are meant to be flushed out yearly and replenished, so no long term system running with this stuff...

I have been an automotive technician for over 15years. Be very mindful of propylene glycol!! If you do not get the RV stuff the propylene is twice as bad for kitty than the ethylene. Off the shelf propylene is what is refered to as extended live coolant (ie. DEXCOOL). it is full of corrosion inhibitors. Basically the acidic properties are much higher. If you look inside of a vehicle cooling system that has had this stuff in it for 40,000mi or more it will actually eat away grooves in the aluminum internals of car. Imagine what it can do to your pets. I really do not recomend it for use in a pc at all. As it breaks down it goes through electrolisys (possibly mispelled, lol) and will leave a gummy brown residue, that will stop up the largest of orifices.:cry:

[XeonStrikeForce]

I've been using propylene glycol for over a year in my loop, it hasn't broken down a bit.

FYI you have concentrated hydrochloric acid in your stomach right this second, you drink phosphoric acid when you drink pop, citric acid is a delicacy. being acid means nothing in other words.

[Otter]

I have been an automotive technician for over 15years. Be very mindful of propylene glycol!! If you do not get the RV stuff the propylene is twice as bad for kitty than the ethylene. Off the shelf propylene is what is refered to as extended live coolant (ie. DEXCOOL). it is full of corrosion inhibitors. Basically the acidic properties are much higher. If you look inside of a vehicle cooling system that has had this stuff in it for 40,000mi or more it will actually eat away grooves in the aluminum internals of car.
:eh?: I thought all antifreeze and racing coolant additives where alkaline. And isn't the point of corrosion inhibitors to prevent the metal from being eaten away?

[Moto7451]

(The beginning here assumes that there is actually an acid in that antifreeze like dexcool uses [Potassium 2-ethylhexanoate acid]. Most antifreeze compounds are actually alkaline)

Being acid actually means everything in this case. While the PH level doesn't matter, the type of acids used however can cause problems.

Ethylene glycol itself turns into oxalic acid in the body. This chemical, while harmful on its own (can cause gout & rheumatoid arthritis for example), forms calcium oxalate crystals in the kidneys and liver which then cause renal failure.

Just because a few acids are safe in certain cases does not mean that consuming them in certain quantities, or at all for that matter, will be safe. Pepper for example contains oxalic acid but it is in such a small quantity that it shouldn't ever pose a problem. There are foods like asparagus that in some species contain enough to cause gout if eaten in large quantities on a regular basis. Going back to your example, gastric acid can easily damage the lining of your esophagus, less a more powerful or more reactive acidic compound.

For these reasons you can't count out any acid from being harmful based solely on assumptions or on PH because you can never be sure how an untested compound will be handled or broken down by the body.

I thought all antifreeze and racing coolant additives where alkaline. And isn't the point of corrosion inhibitors to prevent the metal from being eaten away?

Anticorrosives don't have to be a base necessarily. Steel for example can be protected by oxides formed in low PH environments.

Bases produce a protective layer in aluminum that also inhibits further galvanic corrosion in the system. The relative alkalinity of a solution is not always caused by bases however. An example is ammonia which is alkaline but not a base. Some alkaline compounds are electropositive (which is why they will accept the H+ from an Acid and become neutralized), meaning they will give up electrons and therefor be oxidized instead of the metal. This is why they run out after a period of time.

[turkey4550]

I've been using propylene glycol for over a year in my loop, it hasn't broken down a bit.

FYI you have concentrated hydrochloric acid in your stomach right this second, you drink phosphoric acid when you drink pop, citric acid is a delicacy. being acid means nothing in other words.
Correct, i tis no tthe acid content that does the damage to the metal parts and gasket materials of a car. It is the electolysis (again possibly misspelled) or the breaking down of said contenet in the coolant. Just because I said I have been a mechanicfor over fifteen years do not assume I am some ignorant redneck. I have a bachelors from the University of illinois major Bio, minor Ag, business. Unsure why I even posted in this old thread.:-/

[Otter]

Anticorrosives don't have to be a base necessarily. Steel for example can be protected by oxides formed in low PH environments.
But does anyone make an acidic antifreeze? I'm not arguing here. I'm just asking because Turkey's comment about about the acidic and corrosive properties of Dexcool is contrary to what I know about antifreeze. If they do make an antifreeze that is acidic right out of the bottle, I want to learn about that. And if there is an antifreeze with "anti-corrosives" that actually cause corrosion, I want to make sure I don't have that crap in my car. :bang head: