View Full Version : I Got Screwed By Ati!!!!!
I have been surfing this BB for quite a few months, but never felt like registering up until my experience today. I am Soooooooooooooooooooooo ****ed off at ATI. They can kiss my rosy red @ss right now. Basically I bought what I thought was a "retail box" Radeon 8500. It was by powermagic ( www.powermagic.com ) and came in a colorful box, with a DVD driver, video driver, DVI adaptor, S-video etc. etc. The card was definetly made by ATI (has an ATI fan, etc.)but after i booted up powerstrip, it showed me to be at 250/250 core/mem. How much BS is this?!?!?!?! I bought this card thinking specifically that it was a 275/275 card. And my only option is that I can return it for a replacement only if defective. I think this is ATI's fault 100% and will NEVER buy another one of their stinkin products again! I feel that I was decieved by them and feel let down. I spent $250 damn dollars..............argghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! !!!!! If anybody from ATI corp. reads this. GO TO ****!!!!!!!!!!!! You should have 2 Radeon cards out, an 8500(275/275) and an 8400(250/250) or something like this. Because this is what its speced for. Is there anyway a class action lawsuit can be filed???? If I seem like Im ranting, put urself in my shoes, it took me 3 MONTHS to save for this card! My next card will be an Nvidia product for sure.:mad:
funnyperson1
11-01-01, 09:10 PM
umm all 8500s come with Ati fans.....if it is in fact a retail 8500 it has a special made by Ati sticker on it.......you shouldnt blame ATI because they didnt even make the card, all they did is ship the gpu and fan stickers to that company.....the company has a choice of what to clock it as.....in fact ive seen rumours of a Club3D 8500 clocked at 300/300.....im sure youll have no problems returning it.....also im usre the part will oc to retail speeds so you may wanna try that.......
Kingslayer
11-01-01, 09:16 PM
I'm sorry you feel this way. However, you bought an OEM card. And it has been said that the OEM cards are 250/250. Even if it comes in a colorful box, it's a Powermagic box, not an ATI box. It also clearly states on Powermagics site that the core and memory speeds are 250/250.
This isn't 100% ATI's fault, and a lawsuit is virtually pointless. In 5 minutes of research I was able to find, on Powermagics site, that this was an OEM card, complete with memory and core specs. All the lawsuit would do is show that you are 100% at fault.
I'm sorry that you are upset. I'm sorry that you feel hosed. I dont like the fact that the OEM cards are a slower clock speed any more than you do, but research is key....
Five minutes of research would have saved you a lot of heartache.
No, its made by ATI alright. There are more ATI stickers and imprints ALL over the PCB. I dont care if it will OC or not, its not spec' for 275/275 otherwise it would already be at that. Regardless of the fact, ATI BLOWS! I should have listened to all my friends and went with a GeForce 3 Ti. Besides the fact, the drivers also suck big time, friggin crashing on half my games.:mad:
flounder43
11-01-01, 09:19 PM
I think that you are *WAY* out of line with your disparaging remarks about ATI. I went to the 'Power Magic' website and had a look. You bought a Power Magic card with the Radeon chipset, NOT AN ATI RADEON 8500. I noticed that Power Magic also makes GeForce cards. So, would you also blame Nvidia if you didn't like one of these cards?
I think you ought to take a little more time and think about what you are saying before you post such inflammatory remarks.
ATI did not screw you. I think you should post a retraction.
I agree.
ATI didn't screw you, PowerMagic did IF they advertised it at 275/275.
It's only an ATI product if it comes in an ATI box. Otherwise, it's just a product based on ATI technology.
I dont care, when I called up and asked for a "Retail box" they said it was. OEM to me means white box with bare card and maybe a display driver. As for specifications, I dont see anywhere on the website where it says 250/250. Please after reading some of your other posts its pretty clear that umm NO. We will NOT have attacks in this forum. Should you need a reminder of the agreement you sigend up for when you joined this site, read the forum guild at the top of every forum. Shadow ÒÓ anyway. I did not get what I asked for, thats deception to me.:mad:
MrOOBiLL
11-01-01, 09:23 PM
If the folks say the clock speeds on their site, then its lack of research on your part, but i agree that they should decide on ONE clock speed. You should go after powermagic.
No retractions being posted. I stated my opinion. If cards are going to have a designation tag(8500) then they should be within spec of what ATI advertises. I dont see any Geforce cards being downgraded in frequencies by third party companies, so why does ATI pull this *****???
It_The_Cow
11-01-01, 09:25 PM
It was decieveing, but in a "Power Magic News" article, it mentioned this
"Power Magic announces RADEON 8500 & 7500 3D Adapters
Rotterdam, NL--September 18, 2001,
...The PM RADEON 8500 graphics board, powered by the most advanced ATI graphics processor chip, delivers significant performance superiority . It features a core clock speed of 250 MHz (megahertz), memory clock speed of 275 MHz and 64MB (megabytes) of DDR (double data rate) memory."
You myay not have seen this, and it was not mentioned in their product description, but it was there.
funnyperson1 is right, and ATI cards has different manufacturers other than itself, much like NVidia. In fact, I don't think NVidia even makes their own cards anyore. The now just sell their technology off.
If you compare GeForce cards, you'll probably notice a difference in the clockings as well. Perhaps more inquiring about the card may have saved you your trouble, but the title of the card was the "Power Magic ATI Radeon 8500" which implies that Power Magic either manufactured the card, or labeled the cards as theirs.
ATI does have its faults, but it a business just as any other. Inquire Kingslayer about why he demises NVidia and you'll find out about their faults. It's quite compelling
Regardless, its not even 250/275, its 250/250 so there is still deception going on here. IMO if ATI is gonna source out stuff then they should put a set of standards out to the people they sell their chipsets too. Either way its wrong, there is no grey area.
Zuck Gou :)
11-01-01, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Mr.M
I dont care, when I called up and asked for a "Retail box" they said it was. OEM to me means white box with bare card and maybe a display driver. As for specifications, I dont see anywhere on the website where it says 250/250. Please after reading some of your other posts its pretty clear that you're just an ATI kiss @ss anyway. I did not get what I asked for, thats deception to me.:mad:
If you've noticed yet insulting and just rambling flaming isn't getting you any help nor respect.
It's 100% your fault buddy.
You assumed because the box wasn't white it was retail? That's just ignorance.
Take a few minutes next time to look your purchase up and get the specs, or ask us. But do it in a friendly manner, we're all here to help.
flounder43
11-01-01, 09:31 PM
Ok, Mr. M, calm down. We were just trying to explain things to you. please don't repeat nonsense like this, it just forces the mods thave to edit it twice. Shadow ÒÓ
Let me try to explain this to you. If I go to Best Buy and buy a Geforce 2 card made by PNY, I understand that it is PNY that put the card together with the NVIDIA chipset. If I later found the card to be not as good as one made by someone else (which I probably would :D ), I don't blame Nvidia. I say, "Gosh, PNY is a company not well known for their high performance and quality, and I took my chances". I don't post on some BBS how I just got screwed by Nvidia. Understand?
I really think you owe ATI an apology.
Zuck Gou :)
11-01-01, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Mr.M
Regardless, its not even 250/275, its 250/250 so there is still deception going on here. IMO if ATI is gonna source out stuff then they should put a set of standards out to the people they sell their chipsets too. Either way its wrong, there is no grey area.
Edit:
Radeons run on a synchronous clock = they would never sell at a 250/275 clock speed.
Other companies using ATi technology can run the clock at whatever they want. I'm sure there will be 300/300 mhz clocks soon enough.
It_The_Cow
11-01-01, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Mr.M
I dont care, when I called up and asked for a "Retail box" they said it was. OEM to me means white box with bare card and maybe a display driver. As for specifications, I dont see anywhere on the website where it says 250/250. Please after reading some of your other posts its pretty clear that you're just an ATI kiss @ss anyway. I did not get what I asked for, thats deception to me.:mad: You bought a retail Power Magic card, a card that was manufactured by a third party. Blame that third party, not ATI as a whole
Originally posted by Mr.M
No retractions being posted. I stated my opinion. If cards are going to have a designation tag(8500) then they should be within spec of what ATI advertises. I dont see any Geforce cards being downgraded in frequencies by third party companies, so why does ATI pull this *****???That's where you're wrong. Dead wrong. Read this (http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/shootout/gf3/) and tell me all the cards are clocked the same. All of the companies are third party manufacturers. Note that NVidia doesn't even make their own cards. Just like ATI, they sell their cores. What components they use is their discretion
It_The_Cow
11-01-01, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Zuck Gou :)
More proof of zero research.
Radeons run on a synchronous clock = they would never sell at a 250/275 clock speed.
Other companies using ATi technology can run the clock at whatever they want. I'm sure there will be 300/300 mhz clocks soon enough. Actually this is the only fault I can find with Power Magic. It's a direct quote from their news (http://www.powermagic.com/ati/news_radeon_8500_7500.html). This is the only thing I would consider false advertising on Power Magic's behalf
]-[itman
11-01-01, 09:37 PM
One thing for his side:
If you notice what It_The_Cow posted says the memory speed should be 275 but it's clocked at 250. I'm not saying this is ATI's fault at all but it's definitely something against powermagic. Maybe he can get his money back because of it or something.
Oh, so now Im supposed to know about "syncrowhatever"?Some people here dont think they should have to delve this far into research to get what ATI had reviewed by magazines. Quite a few publications seem to express the same thoughts I have too Im no techie. But I know that I was told to buy a "retail box" of the ATI card, I sure didnt know that it was only the "retail box" from ATI directly.I am not flaming anybody here directly, but I am FLAMING ATI! They suck. And they suck for allowing this. All ATI told me was that if I dont break out a magnifying glass to read the fine print, I may not get what I expect. Lame move. ATI sucks. End of statement.
Cisco Kid
11-01-01, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Mr.M
Regardless, its not even 250/275, its 250/250 so there is still deception going on here. IMO if ATI is gonna source out stuff then they should put a set of standards out to the people they sell their chipsets too. Either way its wrong, there is no grey area.
Mr. M ,
It is your own fault!!!! Why did you buy Powermagic brand?? Probably to save a few bucks!! Did you do the research, obviously not, and you know what it is your own Fr***** fault. Quit blaming ATI, nvidia does the same thing, it is up to the consumer to research before they buy. Bottom line is if you would have bought retail box ATI card you would not have any problem.
again NO.........no personal attacks. This thread is 1 inch from being trashed. Shadow ÒÓ
Well that is not the case just like everyone else told ya here. Too bad so sad complain to Powermagic.
Cisco Kid:D
flounder43
11-01-01, 09:47 PM
Why don't you just return the card, drive to your nearest Best Buy, and buy an ATI retail Radeon?
You are mad, but you anger is misplaced. Retail box means a retail box from the company you bought it from. You don't need to be a techie to understand that.
The article on hardocp.com only shows the different cards MAXIMUM OCing ability. But they ALL meet the minimum core/mem specified by Nvidia. Also they are all only seperated by a few points in total scores, which is not even detectable without a program. But 50 hz in memory speed can equal up to a 10-15 percent difference in performance, thats quite a bit more. Plus after using an OCing utility the highest I can overclock this card is 260/260. I cant even get it to stabilize at the 275/275 that ATI posts. LAME!:mad: Believe me I am going to try and return it ASAP. But the return policy states defective exchange only. I hope this argument will allow a return regardless. Then Ill save up another $100 and get a GeForce.
It_The_Cow
11-01-01, 09:50 PM
You're entitiled to your opinion about ATI, and there's nothing I can do to change it. But let me tell you this. NVidia is just as misleading as ATI. Read the shootout and you'll find out why. Their timings are varied just like ATI. What you bought was a Power Magic card equipped with ATI technology. ATI technology which was sold to them. What Power Magic did with that technology was up to them. And apparently, they used lesser quality components and had it clocked lower. The same goes with NVidia.
My recommendation is pin Power Magic down and tell them that you want your card returned due to false advertising as noted in their News. That is their only fault I can find. All others aren't
Im sure and know that different companies use different quality chips, but regardless of the fact is that they still meet what NVIDIA specs them as advertized. Some may OC higher, but spec'ed core/mem minimums are met as advertized.
It_The_Cow
11-01-01, 09:57 PM
How do you know ATI's standards aren't 250/250 timings. If you hate the card so much, sell or trade it for a better card. I'm sure you'll be happier without it. I feel for your dissapointment, but don't let one incident change your view on an entire company. The last thing anyone would want is for NVidia to buy out ATI and become the next Microsoft
Ritteri&Bubbles
11-01-01, 10:04 PM
NOT AGAIN! Knock it off guys! Shadow ÒÓAll the people that dont agree with you use "ATI" products, while the one person who sees where you are coming from uses an "Nvidia" product. LOL!! ROTFLMAO!!Just to let you know, I too see your point, and good ol' powermagic does state that the mem runs at 275. So there is some false advertising going on. Whether its an honest mistake or not, it's still going to put the blame on somebody else. I too agree that ATI should set some minimum standards, another one....expect to see warnings in your PM boxes folks. Shadow ÒÓI think you have a great case to get your cash back. So I would get your hopes up. If you used a CC, then you are defiently in luck, as you had bought a product that was not as described, and the website proves it. CC's will side with you here. SO use this for leverage. I sell both ATI and Nvidia. I sell alot more Nvidia products on almost a 10 to 1 basis, even though they are much more expensive overall. You get what you pay for.
Research Research Research is the key to end all of you woe's and For the Record you should be blaming Powermagic, not ATi you bought their video card. For reference you bought ATi's graphic processor included on the video card. Stop with the nonsense. Let's keep a civil tone on this one. Flaming will not be tolerated. It has been stated before.
Behave - Any question's PM Me
J
OK, question. I am currently saving to get a radeon 8500 from best Buy, would this be a "retail" version, or some other manufacturers.? I looked all over the box, the only name I see is Ati. not that it matters, 250 or 300, they would both do exactly what you buy it for. produce video for you to see.
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Saw the answer alittle further down in the postings. sorry for taking up space:p
Zuck Gou :)
11-01-01, 11:43 PM
I took it out Shadow ÒÓ
Ritteri, wtf was that seriously man.
flounder43
11-01-01, 11:44 PM
The only Radeon cards I have ever seen at Best Buy are by ATI. You can tell, because the box says it is made by ATI. I don't think I have ever seen a third party ATI card in a store anywhere. This fellow, Mr.M. bought a mail order, probably less expensive card with the Radeon chipset.
Have no fear, I hear the 8500 rocks.
Ritteri&Bubbles
11-01-01, 11:48 PM
you just don't get it do you bud. Shadow ÒÓ
Dunga Bee
11-01-01, 11:54 PM
King of Anti-Flam =) Shadow ÒÓ
King of Flame
Slychilde
11-02-01, 12:02 AM
I can same the same for 'Nvidia' too, bub. I have a gf2 mx400, like it says in my sig. It is the worst vid card I have ever used. It crashes a ton and freezes my puter. My old voodoo 3 3000 won't do that with the same setup. So now should I blame Nvidia? Nah. I'd blame inno3d first off, if anyone.
Then, let's say I went and did some research. I find out that Nvidia chipsets don't like kt133 boards too well and there's some incompatibility. Who's fault is that? Mine. Why? Because I, as a consumer should know if it's gonna be compatible or not before I buy it.
2nd of all, your whole idea that 'I'm gonna go with Nvidia cause they're better' is now wrong. My card is really unstable and is based on the nvidia chipset. Touche.
Lol, I have to agree with Trine.
krakerman
11-02-01, 01:08 AM
scratches down another name. Shadow ÒÓ
I'm not deleting this thread, but leaving it instead to show how many people had to be edited. Shadow ÒÓ
oc jason
11-02-01, 07:58 AM
sounds like u screwed yourself, and are continuing to do so by whining and not taking care of the problem at hand, sell or return the card and just get a good card like a GF, or one that you are equally happy with. STOP THIS RANT RIGHT NOW< OF SUFFER CONSEQUENCES, you are pushing hte limits with cursing and what not. @ss is still cursing
Dont blame ATI:mad:
ATI is a good videocard maker. Ihave ownd many ATI cards and they are good ones. Blame yourself if you bought it.....
Kingslayer
11-02-01, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Mr.M
I dont care, when I called up and asked for a "Retail box" they said it was. OEM to me means white box with bare card and maybe a display driver. As for specifications, I dont see anywhere on the website where it says 250/250. I did not get what I asked for, thats deception to me.:mad:
Yes. I am an ...Someone says something offensive, Please don't repeat it. Just means I have to edit it twice. Shadow ÒÓ That's not the issue. The issue is that you failed to do your homework on a purchase.
Scope this out. This is taken directly from Powermagics site....
The PM RADEON 8500 graphics board, powered by the most advanced ATI graphics processor chip, delivers significant performance superiority . It features a core clock speed of 250 MHz (megahertz), memory clock speed of 275 MHz and 64MB (megabytes) of DDR (double data rate) memory. Major technological advancements include TRUFORM", an innovative rendering technology that helps to deliver the smoothest, most natural 3D images ever seen on existing and next-generation 3D games; and SMARTSHADER", an advanced technology that takes advantage of Microsoft s new DirectX 8.1 specification, including supporting Pixel Shaders Version 1.4 to enable more complex and realistic texture and lighting effects without sacrificing performance. DirectX 8.1 is an integral part of Microsoft s new Windows XP operating system, due to ship this Fall. All the features available on the DirectX platform will also be available under OpenGL ® .
Here is the direct link that I found this page on...http://www.powermagic.com/ati/news_radeon_8500_7500.html
Took me a whole whopping 5 minutes to find this info.
There is no deception here. The fact that the clocks are different is common knowledge. If you have been surfing this site as you stated, you'd know this.
You said you asked if it was a Retail Box, and Powermagic told you yes. They are the ones that decieved you. Not ATI. But they told you the truth...you got a retail box, a Powermagic box, not an ATI box.
But my loyalty to ATI has no bearing on the fact that you failed to do your homework.
Ritteri&Bubbles
11-02-01, 10:00 AM
All:Actually, to clear the record straight before this becomes a war on 2 fronts. I just wanted to say that I'm not pulling sides completely here. I do love ATI's AIW Pro, and sell a ton of these. I just like raggin on Canucks thats all. Learn to take a joke! I am definetly NOT taking this thread seriously at all. Go Igloo dwellers!You guys rock!:D
Slychilde: As far as the Nvidia being buggy on KT133 chipsets, I have heard of a few issues myself, but there are easy work arounds to this. Its called stop being so cheap, spend some cash and upgrade your computer to an AMD760 or KT266A mb fool! You can spend less than $150 for mb and DDR RAM to solve the problem AND boost your performance by 50% at the same time!
Canucks: BTW you guys do make great hockey sticks, so I applaud you for this marvelous feat of skill!:D
Microsoft
11-02-01, 10:06 AM
ATI sucks anyways we all know that
foxmulder
11-02-01, 10:30 AM
Why don't we set up a section in the forum especially for Rittiri&Bubbles, Mr.M, and Microsoft so they can got there and flame each other and bash anyone and everything they like.:mad:
About ATI: I personally will not buy a Radeon 8500 untill ATI gives us some decent drivers BUT I feel that they are doing a great job of delivering some competition to Nvidia and making all our 3D cards regardless of make a whole lot cheaper. I personally own an Nvidia card and am happy with it for now but I'd be willing to buy an ATI if it offers more bang for the buck.
Please guys, if you want to get emotional over something find something worthwhile.
Foxmulder LoL,
Just add them to your ignore list if they bother you.
Kingslayer
11-02-01, 11:22 AM
We have ignore lists?!?!
Sweet Jebus that's a great tool.
This got way out of hand. I would not be surprised if someone locks this thread :(.
Unfortunately there are several things going on here.
1 - ATI originally set their specs to 250/250. That is fact.
2 - Powercolor stinks.
3 - If powercolor was quick to adapt the ATI chip and set their cards to 250/250, boxed them, and then was notified by ATI that they were actually bumping their speeds to compete with the gf3, then it's not really powercolor's fault after all (and it's fair to think they wouldn't go back and reopen and repackage thousands of cards because of ATI's greed).
4 - Overclocking will solve all the worries and if you're merely griping for loss of performance, know that the 275/275 are the same chips overclocked, so it's not like the last 64MB cards that actually came with better memory and GPU when clocked at 198/198. if you overclock it you have the same damn card you'd get if you returned it, waited, and got one set to the 275/275 defaults.
Hope I was able to bring some order to what became a mess of flaming chaos.
Shadow ÒÓ
11-02-01, 02:01 PM
yip.......it's way too far.
I'm extremely disappointed in some of you. Everyone loves this site as it's informative and friendly. Some of you are tarnishing our image and I really don't appreciate it!
*click*
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