Patchwork DIY External WC system

[hafa]

After finding that my more adventurous/ambitious water cooling plans would require far more pump capacity than I was willing to pay the power bills for, I decided to pursue an economical system to tame the phenomenal heat (and subsequent noise) produced by my twin 6600GTs and X2 3800. Here are the principle goals:


Use as much of my existing water cooling equipment as possible.
Keep the cost for additional materials around the $100 range.
Don’t modify the Lian-Li V1000.
Make maintenance, especially draining and cleaning, easy.


Existing parts:


2 each 120mm Radiators
This (http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=RB3117
) pump
1 Ancient Enermax fan bus with OK thermocouples, but several dead rheostats
1 Dangerden Acrylic reservoir
A plentiful supply of ½” tubing


Parts Purchased for the build:


Apogee CPU block (inexpensive; available)
Coolermaster GPU blocks (will fit in the tiny space between cards; inexpensive)
External Enclosure & psu for fans and fan bus
Various plumbing bits
Tubing
Fans


Given that the Lian-Li is stuffed full of drives, cards, etc..., the only real option was an external unit.

I’ve drawn up a bit of a diagram of the proposed system and would welcome any comments. Details and pics of the build will be forthcoming:

http://www.angildesign.com/images/llmod/wc-design.gif

***(Click to see readable full-sized image) Please note that there were many compromises made in order to meet the above goals: Less than optimal GPU blocks, 3/8" rather than 1/2" tubing, etc. Since this system will not use OC’d GPUs and the CPU OC will be mild, I think that it will suffice to reduce the system noise and heat with a mild CPU OC.

[Flip-Mode]

http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s29/smilies-28143.png

[MoreGooder]

AH.... another new rig thread. I love 'em! :clap:

Comments:
1. Why two radiators?
2. You would have a more efficient loop if you got rid of those Y fittings and just do a single loop. Cpu-gpu-gpu-resevoir-pump-rad-cpu.
3. The less tubing the better. Try to keep it as compact as possible yet avoiding sharp turns and kinks.
4. Looks great as a schematic, but be mindful of the actual entry/exit points in your case. Don't block access to card slots.
5. Consider putting your second case right up against the main case, side by side, then punch holes directly through the side panels. This will keep it looking clean, avoid having exposed tubing outside of a protected environment (kids, pets, vacuum cleaner... all bad for tubing. EG based antifreeze.... bad for life forms. Protect it as best you can).
6. I think some small modifications to your Lian Lee are inevitable. See if you can buy a replacement side panel so that if you decide to start over or change your mind, you still have a complete case.

As an idea kicker, check out my ancient thread on my build. I'm trying to be humble here, but it does incorporate an extensive amount of research that I did about 3 years ago: HERE (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=279858) It's an alternative to side-by-side cases.

I hope my comments have helped. I enjoyed doing my rig, so I'm a bit jealous of anyone building one now. Have fun, and post pics please!

MG

[hafa]

1. Why two radiators?

To provide sufficient cooling area to handle an X2 plus 2 very hot GPUs. I have them anyway and the pump can easily handle it, so why not?

2. You would have a more efficient loop if you got rid of those Y fittings and just do a single loop. Cpu-gpu-gpu-resevoir-pump-rad-cpu.

<Homer Simpson Voice>DOHH!</Homer Simpson Voice>

http://www.angildesign.com/images/llmod/wc-design2.gif

I knew that there was a good reason to post my diagram! Thanks, MoreGooder. EXCELLENT observation!

3. The less tubing the better. Try to keep it as compact as possible yet avoiding sharp turns and kinks.

Right. Although an external housing means a bit more tubing, the extra room will make graceful bends easier. Easy bleeding (reservoir highest), easy draining (T-Line with valve at the bottom), and easy maintenance (positioning the radiators so that they can be removed without having to take out other components) will mean that there will be a bit more tubing, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing make.

4. Looks great as a schematic, but be mindful of the actual entry/exit points in your case. Don't block access to card slots.

I don't mind losing one slot; there are several PCI-E slots which will not likely see service for several years and by that time there will be a new case on the market which I'll be drooling over... :rolleyes:


5. Consider putting your second case right up against the main case, side by side, then punch holes directly through the side panels. This will keep it looking clean, avoid having exposed tubing outside of a protected environment (kids, pets, vacuum cleaner... all bad for tubing. EG based antifreeze.... bad for life forms. Protect it as best you can).
6. I think some small modifications to your Lian Lee are inevitable. See if you can buy a replacement side panel so that if you decide to start over or change your mind, you still have a complete case.

As an idea kicker, check out my ancient thread on my build. I'm trying to be humble here, but it does incorporate an extensive amount of research that I did about 3 years ago: HERE (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=279858) It's an alternative to side-by-side cases.

Sorry, man...no mods. The cases will be located in the space under my main workstation desk; no kids, our cats don't wreck stuff, and I do the vacuuming there. I do like your stacking design (very clean job!), but I have limited vertical space, so it must be side-by-side. There will also need to be a few inches of clearance to accomodate the air intakes on the side; there was not enough room in the case to place them on the top or back; see item #3 comments above. I'll be using 10% propylene glycol and 90% distilled water, so no toxicity issues. I ran this mixture in my last setup for 2 years and there were no problems whatsoever.

Thanks for all of the great comments, MoreGooder. I'll post images of the cooling unit once I start preliminary leak testing in the next couple of days.

[MoreGooder]

You're welcome! Best of luck, and post pics! I'm glad to have been a help.

[hafa]

Hmmm...

Just came to the realization that the reason for the Y's in the first design was due to the fact that I don't want the flow to the CPU block to be limited by the 1/4" barbs on the GPU blocks. How about the following:

http://www.angildesign.com/images/llmod/wc-design3.gif

The red line is a new proposed connection. What's the consensus; will this divert so much incoming pressure/flow from the CPU block that the GPU block will starve?

[MoreGooder]

I don't think that's a good solution. Water will follow the path of least resistance in such a situation, and largely bypass your GPU's.

Hummm.... you have two rads. Perhaps your res has more than two connections. Add another pump, and you'd have two independent loops. I believe your Dangerden res has more than two connections. Is it the old dual height 5 1/4 inch bay size like the one in my rig pics?

[Bigg]

Split it before and after the two GPU blocks with 3/8 to 1/4 slpitters, but all of the flow going to the CPU unlike diagram 1.

[MoreGooder]

Yeah, what Bigg suggests would work too, but try to make sure the tubes betwen the splitters (Y's) as equal as possible so that one GPU isn't favored over the other.

[MoreGooder]

So, it'd be Res, Pump, Rad, CPU, Splitter---gpu+gpu--- splitter, Res.

[hafa]

Split it before and after the two GPU blocks with 3/8 to 1/4 slpitters, but all of the flow going to the CPU unlike diagram 1.

Sorry guys, but I'm having a hard time visualizing what this will look like, even after Moregooder's explanation. Is there a chance one of you could upload a rough sketch of just the CPU/GPU block area?

Thanks
Hafa

[Etacovda]

my lord, some people need to spend more time doing and less time thinking and theorising on what everyone else has said (not you hafa...)

when the blocks arrive, set up the loop and test out much comes out of the pair of gpu blocks vs the apogee in the parallel format. If you deem that the flowrate difference is too large, then consider either using a valve (pointless addition of restriction, really) or going serial.

Personally, id just go serial, but by all means do some actual TESTS, so you can see what is going to happen. Parallel vs serial is a hugely debated topic in most w/c forums, because there is NO one correct answer, because it depends on the pump + level of restriction...

course, theres the other way of looking at it - with equal restrictions and a Y, each half is going to be half the flowrate of the whole...

[MoreGooder]

Hafa, did you get it figured out yet?

Here's a better explanation of what I was trying to explain.

. . . . . . . . . ╔═[GPU]═╗
══[CPU]══╣. . . . .. . .╠══[Res]══[Pump]══[Rad]══[back to CPU]
. . . . . . . . . ╚═[GPU]═╝

[MoreGooder]

my lord, some people need to spend more time doing and less time thinking and theorising on what everyone else has said (not you hafa...)


Well, obviously, you are referring to me. I'll help others as much as I please, thank you very much.

[hafa]

Hafa, did you get it figured out yet?

Here's a better explanation of what I was trying to explain.

. . . . . . . . . ╔═[GPU]═╗
══[CPU]══╣. . . . .. . .╠══[Res]══[Pump]══[Rad]══[back to CPU]
. . . . . . . . . ╚═[GPU]═╝


Thanks, MoreGooder.

I appreciate all of your help. This project has been one of the most failure-ridden enterprises I've ever undertaken. First the pump dies, then the radiator leaks, and the coup-de-grace, the video card waterblocks don't fit the cards (holes don't line up with mounts).

I think that someone is trying to tell me to re-think this whole thing. I'll be exchanging the video card waterblocks for swiftech MCW60s, getting an Eheim 1260 Pump, and move everything over to 1/2" tubing; to hell with not cutting the case. I'll keep the enclosure, fans and radiators (the enclosure worked out really well). It will be a few weeks to ship all this stuff; I'll update this thread after it arrives.

[MoreGooder]

No problem, glad to help. Let me know if I can be of further service.

[glasslicker]

I appreciate all of your help. This project has been one of the most failure-ridden enterprises I've ever undertaken. First the pump dies, then the radiator leaks, and the coup-de-grace, the video card waterblocks don't fit the cards (holes don't line up with mounts).

I think that someone is trying to tell me to re-think this whole thing. I'll be exchanging the video card waterblocks for swiftech MCW60s, getting an Eheim 1260 Pump, and move everything over to 1/2" tubing; to hell with not cutting the case. I'll keep the enclosure, fans and radiators (the enclosure worked out really well). It will be a few weeks to ship all this stuff; I'll update this thread after it arrives.

As one of the newbs doing a water build here, I do feel your pain Hafa, and I have a ton of guys helping me through it.

Push through the pain ! :D In the end, it will all work out.

PS. Glad to see you ditched the 1/4 restriction. I suspect that 1/4 for SLi wouldn't have given you the results you were anticipating.

[voigts]

as a rule of thumb, it makes life a lot easier to just go with all 1/2" parts. that way you don't have to mess with Y adapters or anything else of the like.

[hafa]

as a rule of thumb, it makes life a lot easier to just go with all 1/2" parts. that way you don't have to mess with Y adapters or anything else of the like.

Please note that Y adapters will still be required for those systems with more than one block. Reducers, however, will be eliminated.

[glasslicker]

Please note that Y adapters will still be required for those systems with more than one block. Reducers, however, will be eliminated.


Why will Y's still be required ? :shrug:

The only thing I can think of is that in SLI/Crossfire you dont want warm water from VGU 1 going to VGU 2.

Come on, help me, help me please !

[hafa]

Why will Y's still be required ? :shrug:

The only thing I can think of is that in SLI/Crossfire you dont want warm water from VGU 1 going to VGU 2.

Come on, help me, help me please !

Exactly as you've noted, glasslicker. The system in question has 2 Graphics cards and with a simple block-to-block connection, the 3rd block in the chain would be getting some pretty darn hot water, hence, the Y adapter. I suppose my last post should have said "more than 2 blocks".

[voigts]

Exactly as you've noted, glasslicker. The system in question has 2 Graphics cards and with a simple block-to-block connection, the 3rd block in the chain would be getting some pretty darn hot water, hence, the Y adapter. I suppose my last post should have said "more than 2 blocks"

http://www.overclockers.com/articles1088/

Wrong. This is a common misconception that just keeps raising its ugly head over and over again. Water conducts heat from one location to another very efficiently but does not heat up much in the process. If you have all 1/2", there is no need to run anything in parallel and running in series is generally the better way to go.

[MoreGooder]

hafa,

As counterintuitive as it might sound, you aren't going to get super hot water from one block to the next. It simply doesn't work that way. It has been proven over and over, and stated numerous times in these forums that the water temp difference between individual blocks is less than 1°C. It's all about the thermodynamics.

I reccomended that you split off the flow of water after your CPU and into the GPU's because you mentioned that you were stuck with smaller fittings and/or tubing for them. The Y adaptors would be used where you split off the flow after the CPU and then combine the flows after the GPU's. Now, in order for this to work properly and to assure that the flow evenly splits, it is important that the sections of tubing servicing each individual GPU are of equal length. Water will take the path of least resistance, proportionally. The ONLY reason that I can see to do this is because of the smaller fitting ID's of the GPU blocks, and that is to help reduce the flow restriction.

Ideally, however, you should use the same size fittings (perferably 1/2 ID) for all of the system. And, more to the point, to assure equal flow through all of the blocks, the best route is a simple loop from one block, to the next. The trick is to stop thinking about these pieces of silicone we are cooling as superheated molten lava being cooled by a trickle of water. Give water more credit than that.

[MoreGooder]

voigts.... you beat me to it! lol

[hafa]

http://www.overclockers.com/articles1088/

Wrong. This is a common misconception that just keeps raising its ugly head over and over again. Water conducts heat from one location to another very efficiently but does not heat up much in the process. If you have all 1/2", there is no need to run anything in parallel and running in series is generally the better way to go.

Ouch! OK.. I get it..no Y fittings...Ugly head placed firmly under wraps...

[MoreGooder]

Yeah, hafa, if you can go all 1/2" fittings, all one simply loop, you're good to go.

[voigts]

Its just that this misconception keeps coming up over and over and over and over again. There may be some situations other than tubing id size being reduced, like when running two 120mm rads next to each other or maybe in some dual pump setups, when you might want a Y, but for the most part with all the same Id fittings, running in series makes plumbing things a lot easier and is usually the most efficient route.

On the idea of draining, using a T going to a ball valve makes draining very easy.

[hafa]

Yeah, hafa, if you can go all 1/2" fittings, all one simply loop, you're good to go.

Thanks, MoreGooder and others for your patience with my stupid questions and ideas. I certainly should know better after all this time, but was trying to get away "on the cheap" with this one. That in combination with being "out of the loop" (pun intended) with watercooling for the past year has me sounding like the worst kind of newbie...

[voigts]

You can use the GPU blocks if you need to for money's sake, just go with the Y before and Y after like in MoreGooder's sketch so that you don't kill your flow.

[glasslicker]

Thanks, MoreGooder and others for your patience with my stupid questions and ideas. I certainly should know better after all this time, but was trying to get away "on the cheap" with this one. That in combination with being "out of the loop" (pun intended) with watercooling for the past year has me sounding like the worst kind of newbie...

You aren't asking dumb questions, or at least not by my perspective. I learned some things on this thread !!!!!!!!