New Waterblock and Radiator

[acompdude]

I have a Swiftech mcw-5000-64 waterblock and I just stripped out almost every screw on it trying to get it to stop leaking. I bought it used to put in my new computer. I bought it all in a kit on eBay. The other items were: mcw-50 gpu block (the one with the peltier, but the peltier was bad), mcp-600 pump, a swiftech 676 radiator, that mcw-5000 waterblock, and a 5 1/4 drive bay res. I got it all for $52.00 so I figured just the pump is worth almost that much.

Anyway, to the questions. I dont want to get a new pump but I do want to replace my cpu block and my radiator. Should I stay with 3/8 or go to 1/2 (the pump will support either) It isnt a high gph pump so i dont know which would be better. And I want to go ahead and get a new radiator while I am at it, so what would ya'll recommend there too? It needs to look decent and support dual 120's. I dont want to spend a fortune so go as easy as possibe.

Thanks

[Flip-Mode]

For a rad I would go for a BIP2 from DD store for 36$ and for a block I would get either a MCW600X or a Dtek WhiteWater (around 30$ @ Dtek store) or an Apogee.

BTW, it was a good price for the kit.

[Rev]

You can get an Apogee for $45 from jab-tech.com. In terms of performance the apogee is tied for the top spot (some people put it ahead the storm some behind) but its much cheaper than the storm, thats for sure. I would say the extra $15 would be well spent.

[acompdude]

So which size tubing would be better for that lower gph pump.

EDIT: one more question. What is the differences between the 3 dual 120 black ice radiators at DD.

[RIG RIDER]

The pump is 1/2" ID, that's a good start for a low restriction loop. Looks like the mcw-50 is made to receive a 1/2" OD tube, you might need adaptors for that. The Apogee would be a nice addition for a low restriction loop, and comes with 3/8" & 1/2" fittings. As for what the best size, you need to use the search tool and see for yourself what others have to say on that subject. For me the 3/8" was what worked best for my needs.
Someone with more info on this should be able to tell you more.

[Rev]

Personally I like 7/16" ID as its only slightly smaller than 1/2" ID and you have to stretch it over 1/2" barbs, which means tighter connections and less chance for a leak. If you use hose clamps (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!) and plumbers tape around the threaded screw-in part of the barb you have almost no chance for a leak.

I guess you're talking about the BIX2 (extreme), BIP2 (pro), and the BIM2 (micro). I dont know anything about the Micro, but the difference between the BIX2 and the BIP2 comes in what fans you want to use.

To use the BIX2 you need fans that push like 75-80CFM. So it rules out silent running however you can get relatively quiet with 2x Panaflo's @38DB a piece. The BIP2 requires less CFM from the fans so you can make it quieter. If performance is your game, get the BIX2 and some higher end fans, if you want silent the BIP2 will do fine.

[Cyrix_2k]

Personally I like 7/16" ID as its only slightly smaller than 1/2" ID and you have to stretch it over 1/2" barbs, which means tighter connections and less chance for a leak. If you use hose clamps (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!) and plumbers tape around the threaded screw-in part of the barb you have almost no chance for a leak
besides those benefits, 1/2" barbs don't have a 1/2" ID so there's almost no negative impact to using 7/16" tubing.

[acompdude]

Ok, let me rework my questions.

1. What size tubing is better at with a low gph pump.
2. Which waterblock is good with a low gph pump.
3. Which radiator is good with a low gph pump.

Thanks

[bartsimsonii]

You should look at head pressure not GPH.

[bartsimsonii]

BUt if you are saying low flow I would say.

1. 3/8
2. apogee,mcw-6002
3. Do you like loud or quiet fans.

[EvilT]

Ok, let me rework my questions.

1. What size tubing is better at with a low gph pump.
2. Which waterblock is good with a low gph pump.
3. Which radiator is good with a low gph pump.

Thanks
3/8 with that pump u have
and i would get the g4 block
and that rad that i sent u a link to:D

[bartsimsonii]

3/8 with that pump u have
and i would get the g4 block
and that rad that i sent u a link to:D

Hes talking about low flow the storm is a restrictive block.

[citronym]

The storm works fine in a low flow setup, but I'd still recommend an apogee

[acompdude]

BUt if you are saying low flow I would say.

1. 3/8
2. apogee,mcw-6002
3. Do you like loud or quiet fans.

Definitely quiet.

A little clarification on that pump might help you to help me choose a tubing size so here is a little more info:

Maximum head-3.2m 10.5 ft
Maximum discharge-700 L/HR - 185 GPH

So judging by that what size tubing?

[bartsimsonii]

Definately 3/8ths

Choose the BIP or PA series for the rad.

[acompdude]

Definately 3/8ths

Choose the BIP or PA series for the rad.

I guess I will go with 3/8ths then.

If I upgrade my pump then I can always switch the sizes on my block and radiator.

I think I will go with the Black Ice Pro series. They are cheaper than the Black Ice Extreme series and supposed to be better with lower CFM if I understand that right. The PA series is just a little to expensive for me. I am not looking to spend a fortune.

One more question. What is the difference between the regular Black Ice radiators and the X-Flows?

[Mr. $T$]

I guess I will go with 3/8ths then.

If I upgrade my pump then I can always switch the sizes on my block and radiator.

I think I will go with the Black Ice Pro series. They are cheaper than the Black Ice Extreme series and supposed to be better with lower CFM if I understand that right. The PA series is just a little to expensive for me. I am not looking to spend a fortune.

One more question. What is the difference between the regular Black Ice radiators and the X-Flows?


Black Ice Prime is 4 passes
Black Ice Pro is 2 passes
Black Ice X-flow is 1 pass


Also the Pro is very good at low CFM fans, I currently have a BIPII with two 50ish~ CFM Delta 3 bladers on it at 3/4 turn on my Vantec controller. It keeps my Prescott about 15c lower then my SLK-900 with a 92mm Delta SHE.

[citronym]

BIP are more ideal for lower CFM fans indeed.
The X-Flow rads are single pass, and the regulars are dual pass, meaning the water crosses the rad twice. IMO you should get the regular, in my eyes its easier to work with and performance isn't gonna be much different.

[acompdude]

Ok hows this sound:

ALL 3/8ths(for now at least)
Swiftech Apogee
Black Ice Pro II Radiator
Swiftech MCP-600 Pump(have)

Where can I get the best prices. I need to know fast cuz I want to place my order tonight.

One last question. Do reseviors help performance or not? If so can you recommend a good one. Once again not looking to spend a fortune. But not wanting to skimp either.

[citronym]

Reservoirs do nothing for perfomance (not small internal ones anyway).

[RIG RIDER]

rad
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=162&cat=72&page=1
CPU block
http://www.svc.com/apogee.html

[acompdude]

rad
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=162&cat=72&page=1
CPU block
http://www.svc.com/apogee.html

Is that the lowest? I was hoping i could get them at the same place and save on shipping. I wish more places sold DD stuff.

[ls7corvete]

I guess I will go with 3/8ths then.

If I upgrade my pump then I can always switch the sizes on my block and radiator.

I think I will go with the Black Ice Pro series. They are cheaper than the Black Ice Extreme series and supposed to be better with lower CFM if I understand that right. The PA series is just a little to expensive for me. I am not looking to spend a fortune.

One more question. What is the difference between the regular Black Ice radiators and the X-Flows?

Um you have the best pump you can buy, outperforms the 650 and 655 because of the lower heat dump into the loop. Dont worry about what tubbing to use with the pump, use whatever you feel comfortable working with(smaller is well smaller and takes less case space, you also get a better bend on the smaller stuff). If your GPU is 3/8th then I would prolly stay with that, KISS.

No need to go with a low resistance block with that pump either.....

Blocks up to you, not very much performance diff between the top blocks. Get the block and rad at the same place to save on shipping.

[acompdude]

Um you have the best pump you can buy, outperforms the 650 and 655 because of the lower heat dump into the loop. Dont worry about what tubbing to use with the pump, use whatever you feel comfortable working with(smaller is well smaller and takes less case space, you also get a better bend on the smaller stuff). If your GPU is 3/8th then I would prolly stay with that, KISS.

No need to go with a low resistance block with that pump either.....

Blocks up to you, not very much performance diff between the top blocks. Get the block and rad at the same place to save on shipping.

I am not even planning on watercooling my GPU right now so that doesnt really matter at this time, but I think I will stick with 3/8ths just for the fact that it is a lot easier to work with. Like I said, I can always go to 1/2 later.

I think I am going with the Apogee mainly for the price difference. I am having a hard time finding a place in the US that has the Black Ice Pro II radiator anf the Apogee.

[AZNBoiOnFIYA]

http://sidewindercomputers.com/waterblocks.html

http://sidewindercomputers.com/radiators.html

you could go for the BIPIII for $10 more if you have the room.

[acompdude]

http://sidewindercomputers.com/waterblocks.html

http://sidewindercomputers.com/radiators.html

you could go for the BIPIII for $10 more if you have the room.

Thanks for the links.

I would like to get the BIPIII but my case is only 19 inches long so my PSU would get in the way. I have a special plan for attaching my radiator to the rear of my case so that it will look ok. Plus I really dont want to cut a HUGE hole in the top of my case.

I have been reading some stuff about the apogee and am starting to get a little worried. Are they really unreliable or not? Do I have anyhitng to worry about?

[RIG RIDER]

I just installed an Apogee I my RIG, the only precaution I would recommend is that you tighten the fittings with a socket wrench. Don't kill them, but make sure they are tight.

As to you question of getting them both a the same vender, you could get the TDX(http://www.dangerdenstore.com/home.php?cat=21) from DD also. It's alot more money and I know nothing about the block, but you might save some on shipping.

[acompdude]

I just installed an Apogee I my RIG, the only precaution I would recommend is that you tighten the fittings with a socket wrench. Don't kill them, but make sure they are tight.

As to you question of getting them both a the same vender, you could get the TDX(http://www.dangerdenstore.com/home.php?cat=21) from DD also. It's alot more money and I know nothing about the block, but you might save some on shipping.

I will tighten them before I install it. I just wanted to see if anyone thought that I should not get it. It seems to be a pretty good block to me.

I think I am just going to order it all through sidewinder. They have everything I want at decent prices (thanks to AZNBoiOnFIYA for recommending them).

I kinda wish i had room for that BIPIII because for an extra 10 bucks I think it would be worth it. I guess the BIPII will do fine since I am only doing CPU for now and the BIPII can handle more than just a CPU anyway.

Anyway, I am about to place my order so if anyone has something to add speak now or forever hold your peace. lol.

[RIG RIDER]

Good luck and fast shipping!

[acompdude]

Just to let ya'll know this is what I ended up ordering:

Swiftech Apogee
Black Ice Pro II Dual 120mm Radiator
Tygon 3/8in. ID 1/2in. OD Laboratory Tubing #R3603
DD fillport & fillport res(and t-fitting)
Swiftech CoolSleeves 500
and using my mcp600 pump

Did I make all good decisions?

[citronym]

Wonderful decisions. Post a ton of pics when its built.

[ls7corvete]

Just to let ya'll know this is what I ended up ordering:

Swiftech Apogee
Black Ice Pro II Dual 120mm Radiator
Tygon 3/8in. ID 1/2in. OD Laboratory Tubing #R3603
DD fillport & fillport res(and t-fitting)
Swiftech CoolSleeves 500
and using my mcp600 pump

Did I make all good decisions?

Looks good, you will have fun with it, much more and it would become a chore to mess with your compy.

What fans did you choose?

[acompdude]

Looks good, you will have fun with it, much more and it would become a chore to mess with your compy.

What fans did you choose?

Nothing real fancy there. Just some Antec 120mm fans.

Specs on them:
79cfm
2000 RPM average
29.8 dBA at avg RPM

I did get a pci fan controller from vantec to turn them down when not gaming.

[acompdude]

Sidewinder contacted me mid afternoon on the 21st and told me that they were out of the 3/8 ID 1/2 OD Tubing so he asked if I would take the 9/16 OD instead. So I said that it was fine. I am not super picky. It is a little more expensive too so that was a plus. He also upgraded my coolsleeves.

Anyway my question is- Would the thicker walled tubing affect cooling in any way?

[citronym]

Not one bit. Only difference is it will be slightly harder to work with. But with tygon, I don't think you're gonna have a problem.

[acompdude]

Not one bit. Only difference is it will be slightly harder to work with. But with tygon, I don't think you're gonna have a problem.

Cool. I guess it is kinda good that I got the bigger coolsleeves. When I decide to buy a newer pump I am going to 1/2 ID and now that is one less thing I have to buy. Oh, and the people at sidewindercomputers are really helpful and nice. The guy even emailed me and let know for sure that the coolsleeves fit ok. They can look foward to future business from me.

[citronym]

With thicker tubing you're gonna find the need to use coolsleeves even less. I seriously doubt you would even NEED them at all. But they certainly don't hurt, and add a little bit different feel from the aesthetics point of view.

Pics pics pics!

[acompdude]

Well my DD fillport and fillport reservoir came in. They look pretty cool. I got the fillport reservoir cuz i thought it might make it a little easier to fill the system. I do have one question. All I ordered was the fillport and the fillport reservoir and a t fitting, but it came with an extra set of metal barbs. Is it supposed to come with these and if so why? I thought you simply unsrewed the barb from the fillport and screwed the top part of the fillport on the reservoir and screwed the barb on the bottom of the reservoir.

[Mr. $T$]

I personally would have gone with 7/16's. My system is about a third 3/8 and the rest 7/16. My MCP350 had it's suction line a 3/8 ID 1/2 OD and actually colapsed the line from the suction! Then I switched to the 7/16 line and worked fine. However if it was a thicker wall it probally would have been fine.

[grouchon]

[QUOTE=My MCP350 had it's suction line a 3/8 ID 1/2 OD and actually colapsed the line from the suction! [/QUOTE]

..precisely why we recommend using smartcoils for thin wall tubing . Tube colapse (with high pressure pumps) is particularly acute with 3/8" PVC; also, Smart coils are quite useful in tight bends for 7/16" tubing.

On the other hand, smartcoils are not needed with thick wall (3/4") tubing.

On to another subject:

The advantage of thick wall tubing is that it is less porous than thin wall. It is a little known fact (although the topic is now starting to come up in forums) that PVC has a high porosity rate. Meaning that the water permeates thru the tubing walls, and evaporates over time.

I conducted a long term test (1 year) with a system running 24x7 composed of MCW6k, 120mm rad, MCP350, Micro Res, and 6 ft of 3/8" tubing. Loss was 1/4 of the content of the res. after 1 year. Note there was no heat load (no CPU) in the loop. Higher coolant temps would accelerate the evaporation. This is the reason why we state 18 month interval between refills in our kits by the way.

Not conducted tests with thick wall, but people report using their system for 2 to 3 years without refills.

Which brings me to another point, and an open question: how important is low maintenance to you guys: no refills for extended periods of time?

Cheers.

[Maviryk]

Hell, I'd be lucky if I'd didn't have to open up my computer for 2 months, much less 2-3 years!

[Cyrix_2k]

Hell, I'd be lucky if I'd didn't have to open up my computer for 2 months, much less 2-3 years!
Yeah, I think the longest I've gone is about 6 months.