View Full Version : Reserviors are useless.
Maviryk
02-21-06, 05:49 PM
Discuss.
Mine isn't. ;)
http://home.comcast.net/~gautamb/setup.JPG
Cyrix_2k
02-21-06, 05:54 PM
Well, I don't see the need for them in most loops. They are usefull for bleeding and if a leak is present (!). They are needed in open loops due to their nature. Personally, I run a T-line becuase it uses less space, decreases the likelihood of a leak, and decreases the loops' resistance.
PerlAddict
02-21-06, 06:03 PM
Cold Cathodes are useless, but we still like 'em. =D It makes it easy to fill and bleed, and it gives you something pretty to look at if you've set up your case in such a way as to be able to see it.
90% of what we do here is in excess of most of the consumer market. Why should watercooling be any different? :D
citronym
02-21-06, 06:30 PM
I don't think they are useless at all. Personally I prefer a t-line, but my first build used a res and the loop was bled in seconds. Can't beat that.
I understand why people don't use them, or even find them distasteful, but IMO they are far from useless.
PhoenixOfChaos
02-21-06, 06:30 PM
Mine isn't. ;)
http://home.comcast.net/~gautamb/setup.JPG
Yours isnt a resevior homie, its like a magic lamp full of super cold liquid :D
dylskee
02-21-06, 06:41 PM
90% of what we do here is in excess of most of the consumer market. Why should watercooling be any different? :D
Couldn't have said it any better! :)
I find mne usefull 2 minutes to fill and air out from the loop. T line is ok for those having time, turn pump, turn off, turn on, repeat cycle for next two hours maybe less but pump has problems with all of that air and works funny.
NoodleHead
02-21-06, 06:49 PM
Cold Cathodes are useless, but we still like 'em. =D It makes it easy to fill and bleed, and it gives you something pretty to look at if you've set up your case in such a way as to be able to see it.
90% of what we do here is in excess of most of the consumer market. Why should watercooling be any different? :D
good way of puttin it...i prefer T-line myself, but there's nothing wrong with adding a reservoir, especially if you have the space.
I added a reservoir to my system and prefer it now. Much easier to fill and bleed a system.
Cyrix_2k
02-21-06, 06:53 PM
good way of puttin it...i prefer T-line myself, but there's nothing wrong with adding a reservoir, especially if you have the space.
I worry about leaks with a bayres... thankfully I didn't have a problem with mine.
I'll use reserviors for as long as I use water.
I used a T-Line on my first rig many years ago...3 days to bleed, while my nice pump is rattling on bubbles issuing forth from my radiator...no thanks.
Now I'm using an external rad/pump, and a reservior is the ONLY way to go. Of course it does take ±3 gallons to fill, and a T-Line would make filling a day-long process ;)
MoreGooder
02-21-06, 06:59 PM
LOVE my double high bay res. Sorry, ya'll T-liners are so boring!
veryhumid
02-21-06, 07:03 PM
I added a reservoir to my system and prefer it now. Much easier to fill and bleed a system.
i haven't took the plunge for WC yet, how is it easier to bleed?
Cyrix_2k
02-21-06, 07:05 PM
i haven't took the plunge for WC yet, how is it easier to bleed?
I wouldn't say that it's all that much easier so much as it is faster. It only takes about 15 minutes with a resivoir versus a few days with a t-line.
Bugsmasher
02-21-06, 07:55 PM
Lol,
I consider reservoirs useless....just as attractive cases, led fans, any cathode lighting, cases with windows, any case other than beige, led displays, case badges, and anything UV to do with computers is useless ;)
Actually its less useless than most of those, it does help bleed a system.
I have used a T-line for about a year but am heading back to a reservoir (home made) for a lil bling, a change, and finally a chance to fabricate a portion of my WCing system myself. All in all its simply for a wee bit of fun all justifications aside.
Bling 4 teh w1n!!!!one!!
citronym
02-21-06, 07:59 PM
I wouldn't say that it's all that much easier so much as it is faster. It only takes about 15 minutes with a resivoir versus a few days with a t-line.
Well put.
Back when I used regular water cooling, I started out with a T-line because it was the 1337 thing to do, only n00bs use res'es to fill n' bleed right? It ended up being such a headache that I gave up and fashioned a res from a 100pk cd jewelcase. I wasn't content with that either. Took up space and hurt my temps.
What I ended up doing was using a reservoir for about 2 hours, then connecting the tubing. So once the system was set up, NO reservoir, NOR a t-line. IMHO, this is the way to go. I agree that having a res is pointless, but I agree that it facilitates filling and bleeding dramatically. Why not have the best of both worlds?
its useless to temps, but it makes filling & bleeding a lot easier from my experience
and with my res, it makes tubing routing a hell of a lot easier as well, but thats just my system
there's no major benifit to having a reservoir though - i'll give you that one though
bartsimsonii
02-21-06, 08:18 PM
Back when I used regular water cooling, I started out with a T-line because it was the 1337 thing to do, only n00bs use res'es to fill n' bleed right? It ended up being such a headache that I gave up and fashioned a res from a 100pk cd jewelcase. I wasn't content with that either. Took up space and hurt my temps.
What I ended up doing was using a reservoir for about 2 hours, then connecting the tubing. So once the system was set up, NO reservoir, NOR a t-line. IMHO, this is the way to go. I agree that having a res is pointless, but I agree that it facilitates filling and bleeding dramatically. Why not have the best of both worlds?
Howd you do that while still keeping the water in the line?
pwnt by pat
02-21-06, 08:23 PM
do it under water
Maviryk
02-21-06, 08:24 PM
T-lines take 30 minutes at most to bleed if you add distilled water first, then add additives.
It really grinds my gears when people think that having a bigger reservior will make their system cool better.
dylskee
02-21-06, 08:26 PM
I consider reservoirs useless....just as attractive cases, led fans, any cathode lighting, cases with windows, any case other than beige, led displays, case badges, and anything UV to do with computers is useless
Ok, he's against it and doesn't like reservoirs or frills.
I have used a T-line for about a year but am heading back to a reservoir (home made) for a lil bling
Wait, that's kind of contradicting isn't it?!?!? :eh?:
T-lines take 30 minutes at most to bleed if you add distilled water first, then add additives.
It really grinds my gears when people think that having a bigger reservior will make their system cool better.
Don't think very many actually believe that. Now in lieu of the method I stated earlier, my question to you is, what's the point of running of a t-line? :p
AZNBoiOnFIYA
02-21-06, 08:44 PM
i just bought $8 worth of parts from home depot for my res. i definetly think its worth it since a tee costs $2 there. answering your question, no i dont think theyre useless. not necessary yes, but for lazy people like me it comes in pretty handy.
scott d
02-21-06, 08:56 PM
T-lines are good if you don't have the space for a res, although the new res from swiftech almost eliminates the issue of space. I didn't have any spare rooom for a res in my current machine, but I think it looks pretty, so I'll make room for my next build. I didn't have any problems bleeding, but it was a serious PITA to fill my loop w/ a T-line, too much tilting, firing up the pump, then refilling, then tilting again.
Maviryk
02-21-06, 09:11 PM
Don't think very many actually believe that. Now in lieu of the method I stated earlier, my question to you is, what's the point of running of a t-line? :p
"transpiration in a closed system" - BillA
Edit: If they don't believe using only distilled water at first to prime and bleed the loop decreases bleed time drastically, I guess they must believe that it is possible can take a bubble bath using only water and no soap.
Bottom line: Pure water = No foam => Less bleed time
Bugsmasher
02-21-06, 10:02 PM
Ok, he's against it and doesn't like reservoirs or frills.
Lol, actually no. I was simply pointing out that many many things we take for granted computerwise are just as pointless...yet we do them anyway. It was tongue in cheek ;) Seriously however how many additional mhz has a window mod ever added? None the less they get done fairly regularly...much like reservoirs.
Wait, that's kind of contradicting isn't it?!?!? :eh?:
I used the T-line for about a year after getting rid of a bayres....after seeing a few too many 'leak' stories I simply decided to do without it. Since then I decided to make my own res for fun and will be moving back to it.
Bottom line being IMHO a Res doesnt particularly benefit nor hurt a watercooling setup. Its pretty much simply up to each persons taste. Pretty much an arguement about reservoirs vs no reservoirs boils down to cost as the main determiner- most reservoirs cost more. Other than that its pretty much arguing whether red or blue is better ;)
Im not using a res, when i first started to fill my loop i would get a bucket and fill with mixture + water, submerge the pump and start filling. It worked fine, but im getting tired of it. I plan on buidling a res when i make my external box this weekend.
I'm using a reservoir, it is the upright in my T line. :D:D
steve
The only reason that I prefer a T-line over the old res I used is because after about a month the top of it began to mold and it was restricting my flow. Now that I have a t-line my temps dropped, flow is great, couldnt be happier. It depends on your situation I guess.
metloaf
02-21-06, 11:20 PM
I am building a res right now out of clear 4" diameter tube of polycarbonate that will be around 5-6" tall. Now I have the room for it and I think it will make it easier to fill and drain my system. A lot of this comes down to personal preference. :cool:
ls7corvete
02-22-06, 01:32 AM
Res cause restriction eh?
Well I guess if you dont use them right.....
If you use a large diameter tubbing going from the res to the intake of the pump you can actually increase performance with a res. The pumps we use dont like intake resistance at all and this eliminates that. You can even glue the res right to the pump if you like.
Also, if you are using a block with two outlets you can run both to the res and spare yourself the resistance of a Y in the loop, as well as the extra plumbing.
Anyways, I find them easier, its best IMHO to put a res outside the case with a big fill hole so that things are easy to fill and away from sensitive parts if you spill a few drops. Trying to fill a 3/8" ID tube that runs straight to your $$ components is a PITA.
I started out with one of those kit bayres deals and never really did like it, although it never leaked. So I went to a t-line- major pain in the butt to bleed and took days. Then I went to 2 t-lines-bled faster but looked lousy and still a pain to fill and work with. So now, I make my own reservoirs. I find it great to make a custom res to my own specs which makes filling/refilling/flushing/bleeding a whole lot easier.
I just made a new res this week out of 1/4" acrylic with 5/8" barbs for a new custom case I am finishing (the top barb is going to a fillport). I can hook it up to the kitchen faucet and throw 50psi at it and it doesn't so much as hiccup.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/voigts/roundRes/front1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/voigts/roundRes/back.jpg
metloaf
02-22-06, 08:14 AM
Thats a very nice looking res. Similar to what I am making. :cool:
HeatM1ser2k4
02-22-06, 09:00 AM
IMHO, reservoirs are useful. Asthetically, they are pleaseing(sometimes), easier to bleedand fill, and have more functionality. Cant put a T-line in a cooler full of cold water and ice to improve cooling, but a reservoir has that ability.
Now that I think about it, T-lines are useless beyond saving space...discuss
The only reason that I prefer a T-line over the old res I used is because after about a month the top of it began to mold and it was restricting my flow. Now that I have a t-line my temps dropped, flow is great, couldnt be happier. It depends on your situation I guess.
Did you have an additive to prevent build-up? I'm guessing you either did not, or that your reservoir wasnt filled enough, leaving stagnant drops of moisture which did not come in contact with the flowing water (and additive).
THe mold issue is quite odd, as ive never experienced mold....
Maybe the res wasnt air tight?
Bugsmasher
02-22-06, 10:31 AM
I would guess the mold issue had little to do with the res and more to do with the lack of or lack of enough anti-growth in the mix. If the loop was truly closed then the impurity was introduced when adding the fluid or while building the loop.
I dont know why so many people say T-lines take forever to bleed, I bled in ~2 hours with no work on my part at all. Funnel -> Fillport, pour in h20, turn on pump, keep filling. Go watch some TV, come back in 30, fill up some more. Repeat until its bled, which shouldn't take too long.
fhanderson
02-22-06, 11:24 AM
Res cause restriction eh?
Well I guess if you dont use them right.....
If you use a large diameter tubbing going from the res to the intake of the pump you can actually increase performance with a res. The pumps we use dont like intake resistance at all and this eliminates that. You can even glue the res right to the pump if you like.
Also, if you are using a block with two outlets you can run both to the res and spare yourself the resistance of a Y in the loop, as well as the extra plumbing.
Anyways, I find them easier, its best IMHO to put a res outside the case with a big fill hole so that things are easy to fill and away from sensitive parts if you spill a few drops. Trying to fill a 3/8" ID tube that runs straight to your $$ components is a PITA.
I have to agree with this. I have 3WC systems, one with a T-line and 2 with res. I use a 3/4" tube from the resy to the pump inlet. The ease of bleeding is well worth the time to construct a resy from PVC pipe. I use the T-line because I wanted a self-contain unit. Even with the T-line in the highest point of the loop, it still takes 12-24 hrs to bleed completely. I also use a 3/4 tube for the fill line.
citronym
02-22-06, 02:55 PM
I dont know why so many people say T-lines take forever to bleed
It doesn't take forever. In most cases it takes considerably longer to bleed with a t-line. With a res it can be almost instant.
jamesavery22
02-22-06, 02:57 PM
... :D
lol PerlAddict I just saw your sig :D
My 2c:
T lines are fine for loops that will fit in a case, in other words small loops.
For large external loops T lines are annoying. Filling it takes forever. Having a res right on the pump inlet cuts filling to a tenth of the time.
Just use barbs that are larger ID than anything else in your loop. You should do that for T lines anyways.
Most people don't drain their loop much. They fill it, bleed it, and leave it for half a year.
Not Me.
I've changed pumps, rads, res's, and blocks all on seperate occasions and all within two months. Now I'll add a NB block then later a VRM block.
For someone like me a Res takes my insanity level from "stabbing everything that breathes" to "chucking monitors into oncoming traffic."
citronym
02-22-06, 03:04 PM
For someone like me a Res takes my insanity level from "stabbing everything that breathes" to "chucking monitors into oncoming traffic."
HAHA you're making it too easy for perladdict.
thorilan
02-22-06, 06:47 PM
well i wasnt going to post in this thread especially since corvet already posted roughly the same thing i would have said but i will say that reseviors are definately not useless or there would be no such thing . the fact that i design and build them cusom for everything from single user to corprate servers withstanding , i think im in a position to know.
now something to be aware of is the smaller the system ( ie personal computers in this case) the less need for and effect upon that system has NOT counting pump intake design.
btw my system i just put together yeasterday bled completely in less than 1 minute.
but then again im not someone that buys a bayres and puts it in my computer
muddocktor
02-22-06, 06:56 PM
I went with a res in my watercooled system when I built it around 3 years ago and still am using it. I went with the res because of the ease in filling and bleeding the system compared to using a T line. Since I used an Antec SX1240 case, the extra space the res took was no problem anyways for me and since I'm using silicone tubing instead of Tygon, it makes checking water levels easier. I just redid the system for the first time in a couple of years a few weeks ago and installed my daughter's P4 system in the case and everything has held up remarkably well. I built my res out of a 4 x 4 plastic waterproof electrical box that I drilled and tapped for brass piping coming out of it and also extended a 1/2" brass nipple out of the top of the case for easy level checking and filling. No leaks either in 3 years of operation. I also drilled a 1/64" hole in the top fill bullplug because I don't want my system to pressurize itself; aquarium pumps aren't made to handle any excess pressure IMO.
thorilan
02-22-06, 07:09 PM
pic 1
thorilan
02-22-06, 07:13 PM
sorry about the quality of these pics btw im using my cellphone since i no longer have a digital camera
Perseus
02-22-06, 08:09 PM
Cold Cathodes are useless, but we still like 'em. =D It makes it easy to fill and bleed, and it gives you something pretty to look at if you've set up your case in such a way as to be able to see it.
90% of what we do here is in excess of most of the consumer market. Why should watercooling be any different? :D
Well said, Perl! :attn:
2k2civic
02-27-06, 01:18 AM
I would think that a reservoir would help performance of the system...and bigger=better. If you think about it...having a reservoir gives you more coolant which in turn keeps the temps of the coolant as a whole slightly lower.
That and they do make filling and bleeding much easier.
Don't know if I explained that right, but hopefully you guys get the idea.
y2jed_2000
02-27-06, 01:27 AM
I love using reserviors....I always know that there is always water in the loop
MoreGooder
02-27-06, 07:10 AM
I would think that a reservoir would help performance of the system...and bigger=better. If you think about it...having a reservoir gives you more coolant which in turn keeps the temps of the coolant as a whole slightly lower.
That and they do make filling and bleeding much easier.
Don't know if I explained that right, but hopefully you guys get the idea.
Well, having a reservoir will slow down the inevitable as far as temps go. Granted, you will loose a tiny amount of heat through the walls of the res, but in reality you could have a 2 gallon res and it will still eventually achieve be equivalent to no res at all (a T line approach). When you say "slightly" lower, you are correct, but more likely significantly less than what you could reliably measure.
I use a res for two reasons: Painless bleeding of the system, and and I think they look great.
More importantly, however, :welcome: !!!
Lancelot
02-27-06, 08:43 AM
I went with a T-line for quite some time. The only thing is that it's a b!tch to get ALL the air out. Even over time when I moved my system around there would still be bubbles, and some of those bubbles just keep passing by the T-line too fast. I just redid my loop and included an old tube-reservoir I had in a closet and was amazed how easily and fast my system was bled and free of any trapped air. It's also nice to see the coolant waving so I'm keeping it like this. btw I'm running automotive GlycoShell Diluted Antifreeze & Summer coolant in my loop...
-edit-
I already know this will be highly debatable, but I feel like my pump is running more constant now it's drawing it's fluid from a reservoir. In the old loop with a T-line I often heard slight variations in pump running-sound. Now with the res it's perfectly constant. When you try to blow or suck into a T-line nothing happens cuz it's a closed loop, so it might be possible the pump is sometimes 'fighting' against a small vacuum or something?!
White Runner
02-27-06, 11:08 AM
I read some posts that people say its taken days to bleed with a tline??? Are you sure the system is configured correctly? I have yet to have my loop clouded with bubbles past 2 hours. Maybe cause my pump is weak? dunno... I have thought about getting a res as well, but leaks are what concerns me the most. Maybe if thorilan were to make me a custom one, i might give it a try, but till then, I'm gonna stick with my low bling t-line.
chris64
02-27-06, 09:18 PM
I ran a closed loop for like years then switched to a bayres. I would never go back, it makes filling and BLEEDING like sooo simple. I hated all those little bubble noises that never went away from running that loop that always somehow got air trapt in it.
Well I have never used anything other then a reservoir, so I can only say what my experiences have been with it.
I think it is very easy to fill the system, and bleeding is a piece of cake, just fill the reservoir to the top and keep the lid off for about 1 hour then refill the reservoir if needed.
This sometimes requires a BIG reservoir. Like mine.
http://www.netgate.dk/filarkiv/pict00050.jpg
Make it BIG
Ps
90% of what we do here is in excess of most of the consumer market. Why should watercooling be any different? :D
Point proven.
acompdude
02-28-06, 10:36 AM
Well I have never used anything other then a reservoir, so I can only say what my experiences have been with it.
I think it is very easy to fill the system, and bleeding is a piece of cake, just fill the reservoir to the top and keep the lid off for about 1 hour then refill the reservoir if needed.
This sometimes requires a BIG reservoir. Like mine.
http://www.netgate.dk/filarkiv/pict00050.jpg
Make it BIG
Ps
Point proven.
Man thats HUGE and pretty funny to me. Good point about the quote though. LOL.
Perseus
02-28-06, 12:30 PM
VERY impressive, brint! :cool:
thorilan
02-28-06, 03:50 PM
I would think that a reservoir would help performance of the system...and bigger=better. If you think about it...having a reservoir gives you more coolant which in turn keeps the temps of the coolant as a whole slightly lower.
the amount of fluid in the system does not change how fast it can disipate heat. unless all of it is on a heat disipation material. the statement you made is a very common urban myth that has nothing to do with the ability of the system.
even its equilibrium does not change .
JasonDTM
02-28-06, 03:59 PM
My coolingworks/swiftech res leaked.... until I used epoxy for the barbs, normally it takes me 5 mins to fill and bleed, but the last time it took around 20 because air kept getting trapped in the outlet of my heatercore :(
VERY impressive, brint! :cool:
Thanks :cool:
the amount of fluid in the system does not change how fast it can disipate heat. unless all of it is on a heat disipation material. the statement you made is a very common urban myth that has nothing to do with the ability of the system.
even its equilibrium does not change .
Right again. The only thing that will happen with a big reservoir compared with a small unit is the time it would take for the system to heat up the water is going to increase, but like thorilan said, equilibrium is inevitable.
However, if one was to make a HUGE reservoir, with a very big surface area, and if it was made from a material which heat can travel to and from very easy, then there would be a very small temperature difference. Nothing worth the afford of making such a device. It would essentially be nothing but a radiator, just not quite as good.
Keep it real.
For those rich enough to live in a house with a swimming pool, running a heat exchanger to cool the WC loop, as well as to warm up the pool, would be a good idea. You wouldn't want the clorinated water in your WC loop, since it would cause a lot of corrosion.
steve
the amount of fluid in the system does not change how fast it can disipate heat.
Agreed.
OTOH, if your res holds several gallons you can store most of the heat from brief periods of heavy CPU usage and dissipate it when the CPU is idling again. Hence your fan speeds can stay lower and don't need to change as quickly -- both good points if noise bothers you. It does take a fairly large res to make a practical difference, though.
And, of course, a big res won't help at all if you fold. More coolant gives more heat storage, not faster heat dissipation. If the CPU usuage is constant, the coolant will just heat up until the system reaches equilibrium and stay at that temperature.
bumsquad
03-01-06, 03:50 AM
this is probably a really retarded question but why don't they just shell the reservoir in a radiator type material? So its both?
I'm a PRE-noob in WC so plz feel free to slap me if i'm retarded.
Flip-Mode
03-01-06, 04:15 AM
I couldn't fit mine in the case :shrug:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1358/res7zs.jpg
bumsquad
03-01-06, 04:28 AM
I couldn't fit mine in the case :shrug:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1358/res7zs.jpg
hahaha nice. But since i'm in college right now, i don't think its wise for me to be movin a 20liter tank back and forth from home, otherwise that idea sounds okay.
BTW if i switch to h2o will it b a lot harder to transport my comp? Or will i actually have to pour out all the water, since its so heavy? I plan on moving around alot.
It won't be heavy if you don't have a large reservior.
bumsquad
03-01-06, 11:46 AM
actually i was thinking about getting that swiftech micro-res :)
jer6663
03-01-06, 08:01 PM
Well to turn this thread alittle different way, what about running dual dumps to a res. I recently did my first WC build and am running a dump to the res off each block (CPU,GPU). Is it better this way in performance. Common sense to me says yes, but then I'm not to common.
Answer to the original ? is yes. I perfer a res to a tline for ease of filling and looks. And BTW UV lights and dye are great for finding leaks...lol. And some say lights are useless.
THE JEW (RaVeN)
03-02-06, 02:16 AM
Hey, brint, what rad is that? I pressume it's the radiator off of a car/truck, correct? Thanks.
thorilan
03-02-06, 02:18 AM
i have built several systems that share a single res and it works just fine but you can not buy a res like that . you have to design it specifically for the systems .
MoreGooder
03-02-06, 07:16 AM
jer6663, yes it is possible to run two loops using a single res.
The Dual bay res from CazyPC lets you have multiple loops using the same res. There are 4 ports along the top and two at the bottom. Use the two ports at the bottom to feed two different pumps, and two of the four ports at the top for dumping water back in from the two loops.
I use the two ports on the bottom a bit differently, however. I combine both ports into a huge T fitting that is then connected to my pump inlet. Essentially, if my pump where alive but blind, it would think it's submerged rather than in a loop.
Here's the one I use: Dual 5 1/4 res (http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=93313)
That product pic is a bit misleading, though. It looks like there are even more than 6 ports, but it's because of a reflection off of the internal baffle.
There are other places to buy the exact same res if you're not crazy about CrazyPC for some reason. I find them to be an excellent e-tailer.
Voyeurmods.com also sells them, and is an excellent e-tailer. They treated me very well when I bought my res from them.
Pentium.X
03-02-06, 07:26 AM
Lol,
I consider reservoirs useless....just as attractive cases, led fans, any cathode lighting, cases with windows, any case other than beige, led displays, case badges, and anything UV to do with computers is useless ;)
Actually its less useless than most of those, it does help bleed a system.
I have used a T-line for about a year but am heading back to a reservoir (home made) for a lil bling, a change, and finally a chance to fabricate a portion of my WCing system myself. All in all its simply for a wee bit of fun all justifications aside.
Bling 4 teh w1n!!!!one!!
Thats like saying a Ferarri is useless, to generalize things as you do just makes things too simple and flat out too boring. Imagine the world with just black pants and black t shirts, no girls running around with mini skirts or lil shirts, no exotic or good looking cars, no cinnamon toast crunsh in the morning, just oatmeal instead....
How Boring...Like the Amish... -_-
Bugsmasher
03-02-06, 07:43 AM
I have always wondered why someone hasnt bothered to come up with a combo passive or active reservoir/radiator. I would think it would be fairly simple with the right tools.
Assume you had a 'box' type approximately the same height and length as the side of a standard computer case with a width of approximately 3/8"-1/2". It could be attached to the side of the case fairly simply. The side facing away from the case could have mounted fins for more cooling area. I would think with the size it could go either passive or active.
Would there be any reason something like this wouldnt work outside of the difficulty of getting it made?
A ghetto offshoot could be making the simple copper box type with with heatsinks adhered to the side using a thermal glue like Arctic Silvers. Then cooling go go either passive, silent, or high performance depending on the fans used(or not used).
I understand that a 'tank' radiator like this wouldnt be as efficient as a standard type but performance could be somewhat addressed via attaching fins and using multiple fans for air movement correct?
I really dunno, just wondering.
Bugsmasher
03-02-06, 07:52 AM
Thats like saying a Ferarri is useless, to generalize things as you do just makes things too simple and flat out too boring. Imagine the world with just black pants and black t shirts, no girls running around with mini skirts or lil shirts, no exotic or good looking cars, no cinnamon toast crunsh in the morning, just oatmeal instead....
How Boring...Like the Amish... -_-
Ah ha! My 'Someone who didnt bother to keep reading through the thread' detector just went off!
Actually if you check in post #28 I stated that I was saying those things tongue in cheek as an example of what else is 'useless' in computing but we see regularly.
Those items do not add to performance, do not keep down cost, and as far as I know arent absolutely required for a computer....yet we use em all the time. Why? People want a computer that they like. Windows, led lights, led fans, UV stuff, etc are ways that people personalize their computer. Are they useless? Heck no. If you go as far as customizing your computer its normally something you enjoy and these items add enjoyment. Reservoirs I honestly think add a bit more in terms of fillin and bleeding a system but really boil down largely to a simple choice of appearance more often than not for more experienced WCers. For novice ones they add a certain piece of mind in that they are easy to use when bleeding a system.
On your Ferrari example....
Is the extra $100,000+ spent on that Ferrari wasted? If your only point is to get from point A to point B regardless of style, speed, or fashion then yes, its a waste and pointless. The real question is would that $100,000+ plus additional monies spent be worth it? For some people yes, for others no. Neither is wrong.
My post was poking fun at the OPs premise that reservoirs were useless. Might as well say the color blue is useless too ;)
Its a matter of personal taste and style with the added benefit of easy bleed/fills for anyone who watercools from the novice to the long time WCer.
Worthless? Maybe/maybe not....to you ;)
MoreGooder
03-02-06, 07:53 AM
Bug, such a combo res & radiator exists. It's made by Zalman, and, wouldn't you know, it's called the Resorator.
Clicky (http://www.1coolpc.com/resorator.htm)
Bugsmasher
03-02-06, 08:13 AM
I knew about the Reserator but it seems to lack certain things like performance, easy mounting of fans for effective heat disbursement, low cost, etc.
I was thinking more along the lines of something that could easily be personalized for performance/noise considerations and mounted easily to the side of a computer for transport concerns.
thorilan
03-02-06, 09:23 AM
I knew about the Reserator but it seems to lack certain things like performance, easy mounting of fans for effective heat disbursement, low cost, etc. the answer to the reason why it isnt done is right here. bumsquad
Bugsmasher
03-02-06, 10:15 AM
the answer to the reason why it isnt done is right here. bumsquad
Ahhh, okay.
I *think* I get it.
You are saying there is no way to make a combo efficient enough to make it worthwhile?
Currently rads, oil coolers, and heater cores are used because they basically use or are slight adaptations of existing products. Do you think a combo wouldnt work due to cost or efficiency?
Not being arguementative, just wondering.
I know people have had decent results using large reservoirs which double as radiators. They werent overly effective which is why I was thinking the addition of heatsinks or fins might make them more viable.
Hey, brint, what rad is that? I pressume it's the radiator off of a car/truck, correct? Thanks.
Yep. It is from an old fiat. Price $15. And it is made from cobber :) It pays to look around the good old junk yeard.
Ahhh, okay.
I *think* I get it.
You are saying there is no way to make a combo efficient enough to make it worthwhile?
Currently rads, oil coolers, and heater cores are used because they basically use or are slight adaptations of existing products. Do you think a combo wouldnt work due to cost or efficiency?
Not being arguementative, just wondering.
I know people have had decent results using large reservoirs which double as radiators. They werent overly effective which is why I was thinking the addition of heatsinks or fins might make them more viable.
I remember a this dude over at the hardopc forum, he had made an oil cooled computer. Completely submerged. To cool the oil he used a couple of peltier element slaped in between some HUGE heatsinks sitting both outside and inside the tank. This could be done to a reservoir as well, maybe a good idea for my next project. The only problem with using pelts in a reservoir setup would be that the pelt had to be outside the tank; otherwise it would shout/ blow up.
Well to turn this thread alittle different way, what about running dual dumps to a res. I recently did my first WC build and am running a dump to the res off each block (CPU,GPU). Is it better this way in performance. Common sense to me says yes, but then I'm not to common.
:welcome: to the forum, Jer.
The problem with putting CPU and GPU blocks in parallel is that the GPU block usually has much lower restriction than the CPU block, and hence, most of the water will flow through the GPU branch. Try plumbing the two blocks in series and see if that gives you better CPU cooling.
jer6663
03-02-06, 10:09 PM
That's an intresting idea MoreGooder, more pressure to the pump seems it would make it work more effiecent.
Thanks for the welcome Otter. I never thought about the restriction difference, makes sense though and would reduce the pressure to the cpu block. I got a TDX block with #5 nozzles and a maze 4 with a D5 pushing it. Is there a difference in restriction known?? Think I might have to do some replumbing after I get a plug for the extra fitting in the res.
Glad to find this forum. Good info. thx all
MoreGooder
03-02-06, 10:51 PM
jer6663, I assume you're talking about using both inlets of a res in combination to feed a pump. Well, it's not really that doing so would provide more pressure into the pump per se. Pumps we use for our water cooling rigs "prefer", if you will, to have as little flow restriction at the inlet as possible. (Back pressure I think it's called. I'm experiencing a brain fart). In fact, many of them are supposed to be used submerged with no fitting at the inlet at all. We disobey that rule pretty often 'round here.
However, there is a one good reason you might want to have your res above your pump; it will be self-priming. Mine isn'tsetup that way because of physical space constraints, but I instead just tilt the rig in the favorable direction until water hits the impellor and starts pumping. I consider this to be a minor detail, and not necessary at all. Once the pump is primed, you never have to tilt the compy again unless you drain the system.
There's a HUGE thread diving into a discussion of water pump pressures here in the forums: HERE (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=433501)
I got a TDX block with #5 nozzles and a maze 4 with a D5 pushing it. Is there a difference in restriction known??
Not by me, but GPU blocks are designed not to be very restrictive because most people put them in series with the CPU block and don't want their CPU block to suffer. Also, GPU blocks don't need to be very restrictive. A GPU has a much higher surface area to heat ratio than a CPU, hence they are easier to cool. Most GPU blocks don't even have pins, much less jets.
jer6663
03-04-06, 09:23 PM
lots of good info, thx.
atomicfire
03-05-06, 08:55 AM
I use a T-Line only because I didn't have aplace to put a rez. If I could, I would have used a small rez. Bleeding is a pain though, but I got a method down now. I just premixed some Zerex into 500ml of water, and poured that into my t-line. When you turn it on, the water will churn because of the air in the loop, and form zillions of tiny little bubbles, kinda like foam. Keep pouring in water until it seeems the loop is full. Babysit for 15 minutes to top it off. Go to sleep. Wake up, top it off, and no more bubbles and no more air in the loop :).
Straight water will not foam and thus will be ****loads harder to bleed.
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