View Full Version : Starforce forum admin links to pirated version of non-starforce game
For those who haven't seen, this demonstrates what starforce is all about:
http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/03/11/2049230.shtml
A recent news item at GalCiv2.com says, 'Our license allows you to install the game onto as many machines that you own (http://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=161&AID=106741) that you want as long as only one copy is being used at once. How many sales are lost because people want to have a game on their laptop and desktop and don't want to drag CDs around so choose not to buy the game? [...] we were quite disturbed to discover that the company that makes Starforce provided a working URL to a list of pirated GalCiv II torrents. I'm not sure whether what they did was illegal or not, but it's troubling nevertheless and was totally unnecessary.
The starforce forums thread:
http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=670&st=0
The starforce admin's post before it was edited out:
http://www.galciv2.com/temp/starfo2.jpg
http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=starfo26fa.jpg - Mirror in case the old one is taken down
Some of the good comments on slashdot:
...how Mafia-esque. "Games which don't use our product suffer from more piracy... if you catch my drift."
Makes me wonder if it was Starforce guys that released this torrents just to sell their product. Looking at how did they behave recently (threatening people, etc) I would bet some money on this.
So there you have it, if you don't use starforce and are successful, expect starforce to try and bring you down.
What can i say besides ''haha'' :)
I have played a couple of game with Starforce (SC Chaos Theory for one)didn't seem to make any difference for me. Used the Starforce removal tool when I was done with the game.
Please could we keep this thread away from the "is starforce a good/bad thing for games" or "does starforce damage computers" arguments, they have been discussed to death and this thread is about the admin's actions in promoting piracy, directly against their forum's TOS.
that's a very interesting thread on the starforce forum. in fact, the starforce rep comes across as very thoughtful and willing to engage critics. i found this comment particularly revealing:
The purpose of copy protection is not making the game uncrackable – it is impossible. The main purpose is to delay the release of cracked version. Maximum sales rate usually takes place in the first month(s) after the game release. If the game is not cracked in that period of time, then the copy protection works well. After several months of sails even we recommend the publishers to release the patches that remove the copy protection just to make the game play more comfortable to the customers.
this sort of attitude doesn't really match up with the mafia-esque behavior that you're reporting was hinted at on slashdot, does it?
my read: i think their posting the working link to the torrents was a stupid mistake. someone wanted to score debating points, without realizing it would be taken as condoning piracy instead of merely illustrating the ease of locating pirated copies.
My problem with this is that they link to a pirated version to say "oh look it is being pirated, without our software this wouldn't be happening", whereas I could have signed up to their forum and linked to dozens of SF games which are also being pirated. They would say "but they haven't been cracked" and I would say "that's because you don't need a crack to play them illegally".
My other problem is that they broke their own forum rules to try and illustrate their own stupid point.
My problem with this is that they link to a pirated version to say "oh look it is being pirated, without our software this wouldn't be happening", whereas I could have signed up to their forum and linked to dozens of SF games which are also being pirated. They would say "but they haven't been cracked" and I would say "that's because you don't need a crack to play them illegally".
well i'm no fan of copy protection, though i have no personal beef with starforce. if you read the starforce forum posts, you'll see that they start off responding to GalCivII's statement on copy protection. they aren't plugging starforce, specifically. and they aren't saying "without our software..." in fact, as i quoted above, they're saying that no copy protection is foolproof, and that any copy protection only delays the time until a working crack is found.
My other problem is that they broke their own forum rules to try and illustrate their own stupid point.
like i said before, a stupid mistake. they took down the link, didn't they?
again, i'm not a fan of copy protection and no friend of starforce, but i'm not an enemy either. just calling it like i see it.
They only took it down because of the amount of bad publicity it was getting them, after dozens of slashdotters signed up on their forums to have a go.
Enablingwolf
03-12-06, 10:44 AM
I can care less if StarForce is in a game or not.
If a game uses Starforce, I will not purchase the game. I let my wallet do the talking. There is no-have-to-have-it-game that I really need. If I don't agree to what is in the game. I just don't agree with the way it is distributed. There is no choice to agree or disagree with the ToS. Least until after you buy the game anyways and find out it is in there.
It is funny how they went to such extremes to prove a point. Bad idea, and serves them right.
well i for one think that that tidal wave of righteous indignation at starforce posting a bit torrent link is hilarious. do you know anyone who uses bt for 100% legal purposes? and suddenly starforce is the root of all evil?
yes, it was a stupid move on the part of starforce.
and yes, i completely support stardock's position on copy protection.
but i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that anyone who could have taken advantage of the posting of that torrent link is already part of the problem and in no way qualified to claim leadership of the moral majority.
and yes, that includes me. :p
Yes everyone knows everyone pirates, however it is the hypocrisy and underhandedness that is the issue here.
Yes everyone knows everyone pirates, however it is the hypocrisy and underhandedness that is the issue here.
that statement, my friend, is a true work of art. :D
Enablingwolf
03-12-06, 05:27 PM
well i for one think that that tidal wave of righteous indignation at starforce posting a bit torrent link is hilarious. do you know anyone who uses bt for 100% legal purposes?
I guess the last copy of Linux I got off BT. Was a pirated copy of a freely distibuted OS? There is more to BT then grabbing pirated files.
If you're working for a copy protection company, and your forum has rules against posting links to piracy related stuff, and you're an admin of said forum... you don't post links to piracy related stuff.
ok, well, i'm done. i thought you wanted a discussion here, not just for everyone to say "you're right, starforce plays dirty." ok, starforce plays dirty. but i do think this has been blown out of proportion. my read remains that one guy made a mistake, and they were not making the mafia-style threats that is being attributed to them.
enablingwolf: i'm not denying that there are legitimate purposes for bt. but i'd guess that anyone who has used it has used it for illegal purposes at some time or another. sorry if you took that comment personally.
/puts devil's advocate uniform on peg.
dicecca112
03-12-06, 05:49 PM
I guess the last copy of Linux I got off BT. Was a pirated copy of a freely distibuted OS? There is more to BT then grabbing pirated files.
yeah, comeon, I get most of my OS linux wise off of BT when I'm at home, not everyone downloads pirated material. The only thing I would get would be music and movies and tv shows. But I got my music from friends who have the cds, or buy the cd, movies again I borrow the movie from a friend or buy the dvd, or tv, well I got my tv tuner card and tivo for that
ok, well, i'm done. i thought you wanted a discussion here, not just for everyone to say "you're right, starforce plays dirty."
You were providing counterpoints to my initial post and I was in turn providing counterpoints to yours. Is that not a discussion?
Captain Newbie
03-12-06, 06:07 PM
Back off into your respective corners, please. :)
Please could we keep this thread away from the "is starforce a good/bad thing for games" or "does starforce damage computers" arguments, they have been discussed to death and this thread is about the admin's actions in promoting piracy, directly against their forum's TOS.
The question of whether or not StarForce is good or bad and that it damages computers have already been discussed and settled at length on this Forum. (The answers are bad and yes.)
Eh, I don't know if that's actually promoting piracy...
Digg is reporting that a website is implying that we want Galactic Civilizations II to be pirated. Absolutely not! Of course we DO NOT want our game to be pirated. We're a small company, every lost sale hurts us.
This got started because sales reports on Galactic Civilizations II have been much higher than anticipated. We've now outsold the first Galactic Civilizations in North America in the first 10 days. Last week we were apparently the #1 PC game at Walmart.
Naturally, some peple have taken the conclusion that because we don't have copy protection on our game, that we invite piracy. That is not the case, we simply think there are other ways to stop piracy than CD checks, strict DRM, etc.
What we do is provide a serial # that users can choose to enter when they install and use that unique serial # to download free and frequent updates.
Our license allows you to install the game onto as many machines that you own that you want as long as only one copy is being used at once. How many sales are lost because people want to have a game on their laptop and desktop and don't want to drag CDs around so choose not to buy the game?
Ref. (http://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=161&AID=106741)
It seems to me that the people who are making StarForce(tm) are idiots (http://www.galciv2.com/temp/starfo2.jpg). In fact, that guy technically committed a criminal act (something along the lines of aiding and abetting software piracy).
*storms off*
this thread is about the admin's actions in promoting piracy, directly against their forum's TOS.
Thank you and sorry. I read your post and the links 3 times and I still didn't know what it was about.LOL
Sadly I am not joking. :)
Enablingwolf
03-12-06, 08:18 PM
kovboi,
I was just countering your one point about BT. It was not me trying to going against you. There is many uses for BT, besides getting illisit material. For large files, I cannot think of a better way to get things. I just wanted to input my point of the statment you made.
To validate uses for BT, even movie companies are taking a look at how good it can be. If used for valid uses, not bad.
TheGreySpectre
03-12-06, 08:26 PM
I think it was wrong for there admin to post links. It would be wrong for any admin on any forum to post links violating the TOS. I think thye just get extra bad publicity since they are a corporation.
Radical
03-12-06, 09:56 PM
I don't see why the admin breaking the rules is such a big deal. He was doing it to prove a point, not to make pirated versions of the software more easily accessible. This is quite obvious, since it wouldn't make sense for an admin on their forum to encourage piracy of their software, however it seems that many are willing to overlook this in order to create a commotion. Anyone who is going to pirate a game knows where to get what they're looking for - it's not like the admin took those links out of his top secret torrent archives. He broke the TOS, but it's not like he was trying to hurt anyone. I jaywalk all the time, but are you going to panic and call the police about it?
Enablingwolf
03-12-06, 10:02 PM
I jaywalk all the time, but are you going to panic and call the police about it?
Depends where you are jaywalking... Also how you are jaywalking.
Radical
03-12-06, 10:09 PM
Depends where you are jaywalking... Also how you are jaywalking.
I'm jaywalking where and when I, nor anyone else, is being put in danger by my jaywalking. And I make my way across the street quickly so I don't disturb the flow of traffic through the street.
Enablingwolf
03-12-06, 10:15 PM
If you was an important figure. The example you show would be another story. You would be hit for every infraction you make. Us average folks can walk across the street no porblem-o. If we were important, well everyone would be up in arms. Myself, I wait out the lights. Unless of course the light is borked.
If you was cruising across the street, most would perfer you not to clog the crosswalk. In some cases it is safer to walk mid-street. It is a judgment call in most cases.
If you was to jaywalk the interstate, I think you would get called on in a heartbeat. Would I call... yeah the bookie for odds. lol
Radical
03-12-06, 11:24 PM
If you was an important figure. The example you show would be another story. You would be hit for every infraction you make. Us average folks can walk across the street no porblem-o. If we were important, well everyone would be up in arms.
That's true, and a good observation that I overlooked.
Would I call... yeah the bookie for odds. lol
Then I'd better be careful to make sure you no one sees me walking the jay! :eek: :p
-maddog-
03-22-06, 04:19 PM
They are crossing the line here.
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