View Full Version : SONY PS3 Nov 06 But Needs 60GB Linux HDD To Play In Theory
AngelfireUk83
03-15-06, 11:11 AM
Even thou there's a post from Rocco and it already has been covered by FudgeNuggets on the release date for PS3 (Many thanks for the info). New news today from Gamespot on some new hardware which hasn't had much mention the HDD.
Ken Kutagari Sony's CEO has stated that it will use a 2.5" 60GB HDD which will be loaded with Linux to go against MS's Windows.
It also states that Kuragari wants developers to make games so the HDD is needed. That makes sense really your going to loose money on the sale of every console for at least 2 years. If the games developers make the HDD a key item for there game(s) to run your gonna have to pay extra so that cuts the loss down.
Full story here:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6145972.html
FudgeNuggets
03-15-06, 11:13 AM
The cost of this thing is going to be scary. It will cut down a bit because of no hard drive though. I mean the ONLY blue-ray player out now is $1000
blueswitch
03-15-06, 11:53 AM
The cost of this thing is going to be scary. It will cut down a bit because of no hard drive though. I mean the ONLY blue-ray player out now is $1000
Don't forget though that Sony is gonna use PS3 to force feed the public blu-ray and make it the new standard so they are probably willing to take an even larger hit to acheive that..but yes this thing will be expensive...
RedDragonXXX
03-15-06, 12:19 PM
It doesn't need 60GB Linux HDD to play, it just needs it so that it can act as a home server and store entertainment files.
Also, Gamers Reports claims that the minimum price will be $425, but even if they set it to $800 I will get one cause it's worth every penny.
Ha_hA_HA!
03-15-06, 01:34 PM
I was just reading another article that says Sony claims the PS3 will ship with the 60GB hard drive. If it does or not remains to be seen however.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4807858.stm
FudgeNuggets
03-15-06, 02:46 PM
It doesn't need 60GB Linux HDD to play, it just needs it so that it can act as a home server and store entertainment files.
Also, Gamers Reports claims that the minimum price will be $425, but even if they set it to $800 I will get one cause it's worth every penny.
If it comes in at $425 it will be nothing short of miraculous and I'll take my hat off to Sony. Sony has had some financial difficulties lately and is scaling back operations and discontinuing slow-selling non-profitable products (AIBO). I really don't think they're going to be able to eat/lose as much as Microsoft is on the hardware, even without the hard drive because the 20GB notebook hard drive is probably only costing MS about $20-$50 net and the Blue-Ray is going to be much, much more than that. The Cell processor will cost more than the tri-core PPC as well. I really don't think Sony is in position to lose 50% of cost on hardware. We're either going to a PS3 far short of what was promised or with a $600+ price tag, maybe $500 if they go tiered like MS did. so you'll have a $300 360 barebones and a $500 PS3 barebones, then a $400 360 premium and a $600 PS3 premium.
Somebody's going to come out Sega in this deal and it seems to me like it won't be Nintendo because they're going to have the least amount of $$$ invested and most likely the least if any margin of loss on the systems.
RedDragonXXX
03-15-06, 03:34 PM
I was just reading another article that says Sony claims the PS3 will ship with the 60GB hard drive. If it does or not remains to be seen however.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4807858.stm
It will ship with the 60GB HD, that's why they are asking developers to make games that will take use of it.
If it comes in at $425 it will be nothing short of miraculous and I'll take my hat off to Sony. Sony has had some financial difficulties lately and is scaling back operations and discontinuing slow-selling non-profitable products (AIBO). I really don't think they're going to be able to eat/lose as much as Microsoft is on the hardware, even without the hard drive because the 20GB notebook hard drive is probably only costing MS about $20-$50 net and the Blue-Ray is going to be much, much more than that. The Cell processor will cost more than the tri-core PPC as well. I really don't think Sony is in position to lose 50% of cost on hardware. We're either going to a PS3 far short of what was promised or with a $600+ price tag, maybe $500 if they go tiered like MS did. so you'll have a $300 360 barebones and a $500 PS3 barebones, then a $400 360 premium and a $600 PS3 premium.
Somebody's going to come out Sega in this deal and it seems to me like it won't be Nintendo because they're going to have the least amount of $$$ invested and most likely the least if any margin of loss on the systems.
Even if they price it at $700 or $800, you and me both know that they are all going to get sold out instantly regardless of quantities that they decide to ship.
Just look at Xbox360, they were going for $800 on avg on Ebay when it came out and were selling out like crazy and you still can't buy one for under $500 if you are lucky. I remember on the launch date when I got mine at BB, there must have been over 500 people that started showing up around 6AM to get one but they only had 40 or so. People started going crazy and they had to call police to escort us that actually got a chance to get one. I never seen anything like it.
That just shows how desperate these people are when it comes to these things and price really doesn't matter that much.
OH and BTW I don't know if you guys remember GameStop had those bundles for Xbox360 with Dell plasmas that were selling for over $3000 and they to were sold out before Xbox360 even launched.
Also, Gamers Reports claims that the minimum price will be $425, but even if they set it to $800 I will get one cause it's worth every penny.
Same here, though $800 would be my limit, hehe :p
$425 doesnt sound too bad actually.
Aidenswarrior
03-15-06, 04:31 PM
jlsdfnjdns i am not spending that much for a f***in system. Go go Revolution!
i want one for a blu ray player
and a nintendo revolution
While I don't doubt that there are people who would plop down big bucks for a PS3, as there were with people buying 360's on Ebay, one must consider how many of these people there actually are. The short answer is "not enough." If minimum price of entry is over $500, MS is going to bury Sony in next gen users. Consoles are all about market size. Developers go where the money is...if Sony doesn't rapidly build their user base and stay competitive with MS's numbers, they will start losing titles. Once they start losing titles, it's game over.
The only exception is if they have severely limited supply on the hardware...then, they might as well soak the early adopters who can't wait since they'll sell everything they have either way. They might as well minimize their hardware losses in the process.
tenchi86
03-15-06, 05:16 PM
I am really hoping Sony does not end its Consol days with this, if it does then I hoe someone else rises to fight MS becuase MS controlling the entire gaming market (besides the Revolution which if its like the Gamecube will be an after thought) does not sit well in my head. Though I am sure sony knows what they are doing and even with the xbox360 out last I heard sony still had around 60% of the market and the rest shared with MS and Nintendo.
NsOmNiA91130
03-15-06, 06:33 PM
...Controlling the entire gaming market? Pah. They barely have anything, compared to the PS2's massive sales. Sony also has a giant base of rabid flesh-eating fanboys.
Microsoft just got a head start is all.
RedDragonXXX
03-15-06, 07:37 PM
Microsoft pretty much has control over online gaming as they have done tremendous job there and I give them big kudos for that.
On the other side PS3 has more exclusive titles that will be enough to hold the console in place and then some.
Revolution has fans, but they will get buried cause pretty much every big developers have gave up on them and the ones that are left are migrating as well.
Overall I think that PS3 will come out on top cause it truly represents a next gen console, Xbox360 is close but it lacks the next gen optical drive and can't produce games on the level of PS3. Revolution will be on thin ice, but if it doesn't do better then GameCube we might see big N's last console. They will sell allot of them at launch, but down the road things will go to hell cause they won't have enough games to hold console in place.
AngelfireUk83
03-15-06, 07:44 PM
It doesn't need 60GB Linux HDD to play, it just needs it so that it can act as a home server and store entertainment files.
Also, Gamers Reports claims that the minimum price will be $425, but even if they set it to $800 I will get one cause it's worth every penny.
Why do you think I put at the end of the Thread title "In Theory"
Are you outa your mind? Having an HDD will be SOO much better than a damn CD or DVD-ROM...it's flat out faster, serving for better gameplay.
If the PS3 WILL have an HDD in it, I'd say hell yes! Those game developers had better take use of it!
>HyperlogiK<
03-15-06, 08:37 PM
I will get one cause it's worth every penny.
It's just scary how wrong you might be. :)
RedDragonXXX
03-15-06, 08:42 PM
It's just scary how wrong you might be. :)
If you can find me Blue-Ray Player for under $1000 by the end of they year that would be even scarier :)
cornbread
03-15-06, 08:45 PM
Overall I think that PS3 will come out on top cause it truly represents a next gen console, Xbox360 is close but it lacks the next gen optical drive and can't produce games on the level of PS3.
Next gen optical drive means nothing if it is going to cost consumers a ton of money to use it.
Right now it remains to be seen how well the ps3 will do, sure it will sell a lot of units, but it obvious Sony is having production/copy protection (TV news stated CP was a few problems they were having) problems, look at all the delays. Nobody knows if the ps3 will kick MS's ass or not, the machine isn't even out yet.
RedDragonXXX
03-15-06, 08:49 PM
Only reason why PS3 is being delayed cause Sony has been going through trouble of getting HDMI and Blu-Ray to work properly which is not an easy task.
The way I see it, long as it costs less then 1K I'm down with it.
cornbread
03-15-06, 08:54 PM
The way I see it, long as it costs less then 1K I'm down with it.
I'm sure it will be since the 360 is between 450.00 (core) - 840.00 (bundle). Damn those are some crazy prices. I want one so bad, but no way I'm paying that kind of money. That's a house payment :p .
RedDragonXXX
03-15-06, 08:56 PM
I know what you mean. I had to give up my killer 7800GTX to buy mine :p
But it was worth it; new Ghost Recon kicks ass on Live.
Think of what this means. a Linux system in every home. Microsoft seems to have awoken the sleeping giant.
OC Noob
03-15-06, 10:52 PM
Next gen optical drive means nothing if it is going to cost consumers a ton of money to use it.
Right now it remains to be seen how well the ps3 will do, sure it will sell a lot of units, but it obvious Sony is having production/copy protection (TV news stated CP was a few problems they were having) problems, look at all the delays. Nobody knows if the ps3 will kick MS's ass or not, the machine isn't even out yet.
I would add that it will also hinder gaming more than it will help if their transfer rate sucks like it will if its a 1x Blu-ray drive and there really isn't anything that can't be done on multiple DVDs that can be done on Blu-ray for gaming. Its strictly an HD movie thing and a great selling point if Blu-ray isn't Beta-Max.
I hope they don't go crazy and end up with a high price tag. About the time it comes out the 360 will be ready for a price drop and its going to be extremely difficult to convince Joe Blow that their system that looks very similar (the product on the screen) is worth the extra $200-400. Sony didn't get to where they are out pricing themselves so I hope they don't start now.
cornbread
03-15-06, 11:18 PM
About the time it comes out the 360 will be ready for a price drop and its going to be extremely difficult to convince Joe Blow that their system that looks very similar (the product on the screen) is worth the extra $200-400.
I agree. If this thing is released around the holiday season I would almost bet Microsoft will have a price drop on the 360, maybe not much, but if anything that could hurt Sony.
deathman20
03-15-06, 11:28 PM
But it was worth it; new Ghost Recon kicks ass on Live.
Damnit I want to play that game so badly, thank god theres no 360 in stores lol otherwise I'd have one.
Anyways as I've said in many posts PS3 will rock never the less, expecially if they have faster Blu-Ray drive in there compared to the 2x if im not mistaken they where indending to release. A 60gig HDD with Linux would be great also, at that point its nearly a mobile computer which would be sweet, and basically set me on which of the next gen systems to get when the time comes.
I won't retype everything I just wrote on another board. I don't feel that the PS3 will be worth the money, even at a $500 price point. It just doesn't offer anything that most people will find worth paying that much for.
Blu-Ray? Sorry, but as most TVs out there currently may not work with it (HDMI and HDCP, anyone?), it's useless technology. Some people do have HD-TV's, yes. But are they willing to go out and buy a new one just to accompany some copy protection scheme? And is the rest of the world willing to shell out money on something that does nothing but cost them more money for no additional content?
There will be some games that will be released solely for the PS3... this is, in my opinion, the only real selling point of the PS3 to the average consumer.
It might be enough, but not at $500 or more... that's a darned expensive videogame.
I agree. If this thing is released around the holiday season I would almost bet Microsoft will have a price drop on the 360, maybe not much, but if anything that could hurt Sony.
You forget. The name Sony holds alot of clout in the average gamers eyes. The threat of the PS2 was enough to get people to wait a YEAR to buy one rather than get a Dreamcast right then. So Sony can aford to make more mistakes than MS can. And after seeing the MGS 4 demo I have no doubt in my mind that the PS3 will be able to wipe the floor with the 360 graphically once the programmers hit their stride.
>HyperlogiK<
03-16-06, 05:11 AM
If you can find me Blue-Ray Player for under $1000 by the end of they year that would be even scarier :)
I wasn't doubting that the hardware will represent amazing value for money, I am just worried (as a prospective PS3 owner) that sony will bork the think with a restrictive OS and not very well coded games. I hope not, but we shall see.
FudgeNuggets
03-16-06, 08:08 AM
I'm sure it will be since the 360 is between 450.00 (core) - 840.00 (bundle). Damn those are some crazy prices. I want one so bad, but no way I'm paying that kind of money. That's a house payment :p .
What are you talking about, I bought my premium 360 from Wal-Mart in January for $425 (including the tax)?
OC Noob
03-16-06, 08:32 AM
You forget. The name Sony holds alot of clout in the average gamers eyes. The threat of the PS2 was enough to get people to wait a YEAR to buy one rather than get a Dreamcast right then. So Sony can aford to make more mistakes than MS can. And after seeing the MGS 4 demo I have no doubt in my mind that the PS3 will be able to wipe the floor with the 360 graphically once the programmers hit their stride.
You forget that MS is in MUCH better finacial shape and its looking like ALL of Sony's profits are going to go by-by the year of the PS3 release due to hardware losses.
Don't fool yourself the PS3 is ahuge gamble and Sony is taking a huge risk for a large corperation.
That and the gfx (according to major devs) aren't going to be much different, so you and many others may be fooled by CG gfx and think they are in game footage, but the final product will eventually be released and people will see that its really good, but nothing close to all the CG stuff thats been released.
ps Sony's anual profits are about 180 million (maybe that was billion? can't remeber now, but both numbers were either million or billion) and thats what first year loses on the PS3 are predicted to be acording to an article linked in this forum where some pencil pushing nerds worked over the numbers.
FudgeNuggets
03-16-06, 09:16 AM
Exactly what I was saying before, Noob. Sony cannot afford to sell $1000 worth of hardware for $400 or $500. I just looked it up and MS is taking about a $125 hit per console with the regular version and $70 with the premium because the cost the wireless controller, HD cables and HardDrive don't amount up to the $100 difference. They're REALLY banking on people buying the hard drive and wireless separate to make money back.
AngelfireUk83
03-16-06, 09:34 AM
We will see a 4x Blu-Ray by the end of the year cause I remember reading on 1 website that Sony may put in a 2x drive. But if it goes well they may put in a 4x drive is that is the case the price is going to shoot up.
deathman20
03-16-06, 09:40 AM
We will see a 4x Blu-Ray by the end of the year cause I remember reading on 1 website that Sony may put in a 2x drive. But if it goes well they may put in a 4x drive is that is the case the price is going to shoot up.
I'd rather pay a little more for a 4x drive because the 2x drive is slower then whats offered in the 360 if not mistaken, so that would help it transfer info faster at least. Maybe thats one of the im sure many reasons why Sony is waiting to release the system.
You forget. The name Sony holds alot of clout in the average gamers eyes. The threat of the PS2 was enough to get people to wait a YEAR to buy one rather than get a Dreamcast right then. So Sony can aford to make more mistakes than MS can. And after seeing the MGS 4 demo I have no doubt in my mind that the PS3 will be able to wipe the floor with the 360 graphically once the programmers hit their stride.
Dreamcast-PS2 is one comparison, but here's another: PS1-N64.
Nintendo had more clout then than Sony has ever had. PS1 muddled along very slowly as people waited for the "real" next console to come out, which everyone knew was going to have a Nintendo name on it. (I was one such waiting gamer.) The PS1 didn't really take off until after the N64 flopped.
Also, no one really believed the Dreamcast would amount to anything. Sega had already produced a STRING of failed hardware. The Dreamcast was just the last dying gasp. Everyone knew it. Few wanted to risk console buying dollars on Sega. MS is a totally different story coming off the Xbox which has been steadily gaining ground on the PS2 for a few years.
There's definitely a lot more similarities in the situation to PS1 (Xbox 360) vs. N64 (PS3). Gamer loyalties often only last until the next great title or two.
EvilCloudStrife
03-16-06, 12:53 PM
i dont care when it launches or what it has. all i care about is the modchip. the x360 doesnt have one yet, so im not buying it. simple as that
FudgeNuggets
03-16-06, 01:22 PM
modchip schmodchip, I was like you when I had my PS1 and couldn't afford to buy/rent games whenever I felt like it. Now I'm an adult and if I want to try a game, I go to Blockbuster and lay down 6 bux to rent it. If I like it then I wait until a used copy hits shelves and pay $20-$30 for it or If I REALLY love it then I plunk down $40-$60 and buy it now. Seems to me like if you can afford $400-$600 game systems then buying or renting games shouldn't be such a hardship :rolleyes:
>HyperlogiK<
03-16-06, 01:52 PM
Dreamcast also failed because it basically wasn't marketed, they blew god knows how many millions on sponsoring Arsenal football club. Had it been a long term success it would have helped bail out Sega, because their software division was still doing quite well.
OC Noob
03-16-06, 05:22 PM
We will see a 4x Blu-Ray by the end of the year cause I remember reading on 1 website that Sony may put in a 2x drive. But if it goes well they may put in a 4x drive is that is the case the price is going to shoot up.
That will be nice. The 1x, atleast, doesn't seem like an option for a console.
That and the gfx (according to major devs) aren't going to be much different, so you and many others may be fooled by CG gfx and think they are in game footage, but the final product will eventually be released and people will see that its really good, but nothing close to all the CG stuff thats been released.
The MGS4 tech demo was confirmed realtime fyi. (That's why I said MGS4 instead of Killzone 2)
They should never have gotten tied up with blu-ray. Its going to cause Sony nothing but problems. (VHS v Beta)
FudgeNuggets
03-17-06, 07:20 AM
They should never have gotten tied up with blu-ray. Its going to cause Sony nothing but problems. (VHS v Beta)
It could, but that will be more because of the movie studios than anything. The worst factor that can come out of this for the PS3 would be proprietary discs which is good for copy protection. On the other hand, I don't know why I didn't think about this until now, Blue-Ray CANNOT read redular DVD discs or HD DVD discs, so if the machine is to play any movies that are non Blue-Ray (standard DVD) then it's going to need a dual-laser drive $$$.
AngelfireUk83
03-17-06, 08:00 AM
Which means will it play PS2 games cause there on DVD but I suppose they will cause they'll have the boot-up code which makes Sony consoles reconise the disc. You know with PS1 that has the Diamond Sony logo then the original PS symbol after it. My mate tested this once he copied a Cheat CD to a normal CD-R it wouldn't boot cause it wasn't a proper PS1 disc.
I don't think a regular DVD laser is going to cost much in addition.
The drive has to be at minimum 2x because 1.5x is required for movie playback :p
AngelfireUk83
03-17-06, 09:14 AM
I have a funny feeling Sony will include a 4x Blu-Ray drive come on if there competing with MS they'll probably even put in a faster 1 just to prove that it is faster too.
Blu-Ray drives can, and generally will, be backwards compatible.
"Blu-ray products can easily be made backwards compatible with CDs and DVDs through the use of a BD/DVD/CD compatible optical pickup unit."
http://www.blu-ray.com/info/
deathman20
03-17-06, 09:39 AM
I have a funny feeling Sony will include a 4x Blu-Ray drive come on if there competing with MS they'll probably even put in a faster 1 just to prove that it is faster too.
Problem is if MS puts the fastest DVD drive in there the Blu-Ray at 4x will still beat it. I think MS has a 12x DVD drive in there currently so 16x is top of the line for them.
These are just my opinions so dont get upset with me please.
Sony is a leading manufacturer of blue ray tech. Because of this they are not paying out nearly as much to produce the drives as say MAC would. When you get down to the bottom line of business the CODB of producing the blue ray drives is not that much money for Sony. Also with the pushing of blue ray through the ps3 they will have tons of residual income after the first year or two due to the standard market puch of the tech.
Also you have to keep in mind that there is a severe mark up in price on these systems. Let's not be niave about that. It's a stard practice in business. When someone says they are loosing money on a product if you look at the bottom line and numbers it usually means they are going to be breaking even or making so little money on the product it's not worth selling and the end user who gets hurt by it and not the business. Mark ups are they to protect the business. So if for example sony is selling it current blue ray drive at $1000 they are probably sinking close to $150 dollars to produce that drive between costs of parts, CODB of the factory and employees, and research. It's like going to turkey hill or wawa or 7 11, whatever you may have near you. You go buy a pack of marb's for 4.23. In reality it costs that store 7.29 for the entire carton of ciggerettes that pack came from.
Also Sony has established itself as the new nintendo. They will survive. And the only reason Sega went under was because of the severe pirating issues with the dreamcast. I mean anything and everything could be run on it. And it's amazing the xbox didnt go under for the same reason. Maybe for the sole fact it's a little harder to do. But The xbox is a dreamcast with a hardrive. The pirating issues are still severe. The initial effort is a little harder but once you have it modded with that new drive in there it's easy as pie. And the only thing you have to buy now is a new hardrive for more space and thats about it.
I think the ps3 will be perfectly fine along with sony. And it will also be competivly cost to the xbox 360. The bottom line is we don't know what sony's bottom line is or their CODB (cost of doing business for those of you wondering) with this product so we can not make any very good predictions. Sony's marketing reps and accountents are not stupid. They play the numbers and are not willing to lose out and eat their bottom line.
FudgeNuggets
03-17-06, 10:27 AM
I hope you're right Mepis about Sony vs Sega, Mepis but you're wrong about the manufacturing process. When DVD players first came out they were like $700 but now you can get them for $20 (el-cheapo Wal-Mart no-name) does that mean that back when they were $700 they cost less than $20 to produce? No not at all, the cost of the components and processes to make the units goes down after time. Initially if a Blue-Ray DVD player costs $1000 I HIGHLY doubt they have an 750% markup on it as a $150 price tag would suggest because that kind of markups in electronics is just not done. I'd say the markup would be more in line of 25-30% which is still much higher than the industry standard 10%. This would put the cost of the unit at $750. You could then strip away the cost of the unit outside DVD drive itself (boards, lcds, remote, chips motors for the tray etx..) all cheap stuff and probably have a cost of around $650. Take away the costs associated with logistics, development etc... due to it all being in house by Sony and you're probably at around $500. Now take the cost of the full-blown 360 $400 and then factor in the cost of what they lose $75 and you have $475. Subtract the cost of the DVD unit and you'll have about $450 as the total costs of parts on the 360. Now for reference sake let's take two comparable IBM servers the JS21 blade powered by a dual-core PPC $1749 and an IBM cell blade $2499 there is a $750 or 31% premium for the cell processor. Let's hypotesize that the Tri-core PPC in the 360 costs MS $200, then let's add the 31% cell premium to that and we come up with $262 for a difference of $62. Now factor all of these together and the ESTIMATED cost of the PS2 would be close to $1000. Microsoft loses $75 on each premium 360 they sell or rougly 20%. IF Sony can stand to lose 20% on the PS3 then it will cost $800. Let's say they REALLY want to be BOLD and say they can lose %30 then it will STILL cost $700. Sony would have to lose 50% of the cost of manufaturing to make their system $100 more than the 360. Rememer the PSX? It cost around $700 and I would not be surprise if the PS3 goes the same route because Sony simply cannot afford to lose that much money. I don't know how they're going to do it. I hope they can though :shrug:
These are just my opinions so dont get upset with me please.
Sure, and don't take any of my response as an offense...just trying to provide information. :)
Sony is a leading manufacturer of blue ray tech. Because of this they are not paying out nearly as much to produce the drives as say MAC would. When you get down to the bottom line of business the CODB of producing the blue ray drives is not that much money for Sony. Also with the pushing of blue ray through the ps3 they will have tons of residual income after the first year or two due to the standard market puch of the tech.
Sony isn't really trying to take over the optical drive manufacturing business. Most Blu-Ray drives will be manufactured by all the same usual suspects that make DVD, CD, HD-DVD, SACD, and DVD-A drives. Even so, with whatever manufacturing Sony does directly own and operate, they have to pay all the same costs for retooling, manufacturing R&D, building capacity, and so on that everyone else has to pay. They really aren't able to operate significantly cheaper. Also, they have years of R&D invested in the format and have yet to really generate any revenue from the project. For now, Blu-Ray is still highly costly for Sony. That may change 2-3 years down the road, but certainly not in time for the initial PS3 offerings.
Also you have to keep in mind that there is a severe mark up in price on these systems. Let's not be niave about that. It's a stard practice in business. When someone says they are loosing money on a product if you look at the bottom line and numbers it usually means they are going to be breaking even or making so little money on the product it's not worth selling and the end user who gets hurt by it and not the business. Mark ups are they to protect the business. So if for example sony is selling it current blue ray drive at $1000 they are probably sinking close to $150 dollars to produce that drive between costs of parts, CODB of the factory and employees, and research. It's like going to turkey hill or wawa or 7 11, whatever you may have near you. You go buy a pack of marb's for 4.23. In reality it costs that store 7.29 for the entire carton of ciggerettes that pack came from.
Standalone BD movie players will have significant profit margins built in for sure. The PS3 is a completely different matter. The console itself WILL be sold at a significant loss for Sony. This is common practice for gaming consoles nowadays. It's a loss-leader, and they hope to make profit by selling accessories and games over the life of the console. The choice to put Blu-Ray (and also Cell) in the PS3 has put them at a large cost disadvantage compared to MS's 360. They're attempting to "buy" Blu-Ray into being the HD standard.
Also Sony has established itself as the new nintendo. They will survive. And the only reason Sega went under was because of the severe pirating issues with the dreamcast. I mean anything and everything could be run on it. And it's amazing the xbox didnt go under for the same reason. Maybe for the sole fact it's a little harder to do. But The xbox is a dreamcast with a hardrive. The pirating issues are still severe. The initial effort is a little harder but once you have it modded with that new drive in there it's easy as pie. And the only thing you have to buy now is a new hardrive for more space and thats about it.
It sounds like you are severely over estimating the impact of piracy on the Dreamcast and Xbox... All these consoles are primarily played by Joe Sixpack and his kids. They don't have a clue with this pirating stuff. The type of people who do end up pirating are a barely significant minority. Music stealing is much easier and more common, yet there's still plenty of money being made in the music business.
Sega died for a multitude of reasons. Dreamcast pirating didn't help, but mostly it was two main reasons. One, they had a string of failed hardware playforms. Saturn. 32X. Sega CD. Years of failure with absolutely no success is a powerful wake-up call. Two, the Dreamcast was their last hope and it flat it didn't sell well enough. If the problem were piracy, they would have at least sold tons of consoles and it would have been just the game sales that suffered. Well, they didn't sell very many consoles either. Not enough to have a chance at competing with Sony, Nintendo, and MS.
I think the ps3 will be perfectly fine along with sony. And it will also be competivly cost to the xbox 360. The bottom line is we don't know what sony's bottom line is or their CODB (cost of doing business for those of you wondering) with this product so we can not make any very good predictions. Sony's marketing reps and accountents are not stupid. They play the numbers and are not willing to lose out and eat their bottom line.
I expect Sony to live on, yes... They are too big to die off this Playstation/Blu-Ray venture alone. They might lose a boatload of money, see stock values plummet, get into financial trouble, make cut-backs, etc...but, they'll still be around. I don't expect this to be the last Playstation either, even if it does poorly. But, it wouldn't surprise me if they start going the way of Nintendo and Sega.
Make no mistake, though, their bean counters and management know they are going to be bleeding money, at least for a while. They're making investments and hoping that they pay dividends later on.
Okay, place your bets... place your bets...
How much do you think MS will drop the price of the X360 when the PS3 debuts? I'm going to say the core system will be at $249 (so a $50 price drop from $299 that it is now). This I think will hurt Sony the most. MS will be in the position in November to do a price drop on the X360 bundles across the board. Very tempting not to buy one for $249..
Hmm...
Core - $269
Premium - $349
And, then I would expect another little price cut in the Spring or Summer to tighten the noose as Sony starts getting better supply, etc. I wouldn't be suprised if MS tried offering some other sort of bundle deal or something. Throw in a game and an extra controller for the same price or something like that.
They make still take a hit, but not as big as everything thinks. I'm guessing the PS3 will come out between 6 and 7 hundred.
FudgeNuggets
03-17-06, 05:51 PM
I agree with both Atari and Sliver.
AngelfireUk83
03-17-06, 08:15 PM
I too reckon it will be slightly more than the 360 who knows MS might take a bit off the console to sell more units once there production line is back on track. Remember when the days of Ninty Vs. Sega they released there console SNES Vs. Mega Drive you could go to a shop and just buy it off the self.
Amazing how technology has moved forward to cause delays in such work PC's AMD or INTEL release a new CPU. You can get them off the self without problems not that I'm comparing Blu-Ray to a CPU design.
And like I said before.The MGS4 tech demo on the dev kit looks better than ANY 360 game out or currently in development. The graphical superiority is unquestionable. So when you factor that in, Sony still stands a fighting chance.
That's not to say that things can't go wrong. The 360 could get some amazing games by fall (Halo 3?) and when the 360 gets it's price drop, that could definetly give Sony a hit they can't recover from.
But again, if I had to bet my money on it, I'm still betting on Sony.
AngelfireUk83
03-18-06, 07:05 AM
The MGS4 demo was cool the KillZone 2 did look a little fake to me more like a movie in FF Spirits Within style.
I wasn't quite able to follow that post of yours, but the Killzone 2 footage was fake. (As in, not rendered on a PS3 or Devkit.)
AngelfireUk83
03-21-06, 08:54 PM
Confirmation on the 60GB HDD that it will come with the PS3 and is a required piece of hardware for games to play on PS3. Again Sony will tell developers to create games with the HDD in mind.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146269.html
FudgeNuggets
03-22-06, 07:19 AM
ching $$$ ching $$$...... I'm going to be shocked (not to mention pleased) if this thing comes in anywhere near $500. I'm beginning to think PSX prices $700+
edit:
I guess I'm not the only one thinking this way:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30472
AngelfireUk83
03-22-06, 05:01 PM
And yet on GameSpot.com someone say's that it'll be Microsoft who will have the best lead in the next gen console market. Ninty will gain a small profit and Sony will slightly loose some but will be 2nd place when it comes to selling nex-gen consoles cause they reckon MS will have a massive lead.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146326.html
Beginner
03-23-06, 02:08 PM
Even if they price it at $700 or $800, you and me both know that they are all going to get sold out instantly regardless of quantities that they decide to ship.
Just look at Xbox360, they were going for $800 on avg on Ebay when it came out and were selling out like crazy and you still can't buy one for under $500 if you are lucky. I remember on the launch date when I got mine at BB, there must have been over 500 people that started showing up around 6AM to get one but they only had 40 or so. People started going crazy and they had to call police to escort us that actually got a chance to get one. I never seen anything like it.
That just shows how desperate these people are when it comes to these things and price really doesn't matter that much.
OH and BTW I don't know if you guys remember GameStop had those bundles for Xbox360 with Dell plasmas that were selling for over $3000 and they to were sold out before Xbox360 even launched.
at costco xbox 360's were selling for just under $500(premium bundle) and on ebay for up to 3 times that amount. if the ps3 sells for $800 or more imagine how much it would cost? YIKES!
i won't buy a ps3 but i hope it does get released so xbox drops the price on the 360 so i can buy one. by then the 360 will have so many mods and hacks(there are currently alot).
or perhaps ms will release an xbox3??? i hope ms squashes sony to become the market leader so all the japanese game developers get the freedom they need to develop for ms.
my cousins stationed in japan and they are so anti-xbox over there its funny. they choose an inferior ps2 system of the original xbox???
sony please release the ps3 on time so i can get my 360 :)
FudgeNuggets
03-23-06, 03:13 PM
It's going to be all about price... I predict that if the PS3 comes in above $500 then the 360 and Revolution will absolutely slaughter them in sales. If it comes in at or below $500 then it'll be a fight but Sony may hurt themselves REALLY bad in hardware loss, perhaps a death blow. This would lead me to think that they'd produce LESS units until the cost of the hardware comes down significantly and that would mean once again a shortage of PS3 units, and exclusivity will drive the market. Any-way it works out, it doesn't look good for both the consumer and Sony. I really hope I'm wrong, but when it comes to these things usually I'm not.
-maddog-
03-23-06, 03:19 PM
60gb they aren't wimping out + linux this may give it a major chance against the xbox 360 since it comes "pre hacked".
AngelfireUk83
03-23-06, 07:38 PM
I think the HDD for the 360 is a rip off supposed to be 20gb you get 12gb Free space. Comes with demo's that you can't remove to recover space and you can't delete peoples profile's I tried to delete mine off my mates but there's no option.
As for Sony's idea with a 60GB HDD and Linux that'll be a great idea very secure and lots of space for downloads. And new news that the controller will probably get a new shape as it was taken off the showing at the latest event. The console was there but there was no sign of the controller here's the news http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146460.html
And PS3 to be region free so no lock down on imports of games and DVD's/Blu-Ray/HD-DVD movies http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146475.html
Also Sony shut-down PSOne console factory so no more PS1's on for sale once there gone there gone http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146549.html
FudgeNuggets
03-24-06, 08:03 AM
uh, angel... you can delete the demos off the drive. It's just kind of buried in the dashboard. I found them while looking to delete my Madden roster update that hosed up franshise mode.
AngelfireUk83
03-24-06, 12:57 PM
How do you delete them Fudge I can't seem to find any option that allows me to delete them. I also want to delete my profile cause I don't see the point in having one I can't be arsed to play on my mates 360. Cause of the lack of games he's got say Dead Or Alive 4 which to me is sooooo boring they having taken the characters too far this time.
FudgeNuggets
03-24-06, 01:38 PM
Give me about 3 hours and I'll post how. I'm at work now and need to look at my 360 when I get home. I know you can do it because I deleted the snowboard and the Titanic videos. I'm not positive but think I saw my profile to delete as well when I was deleting the fubar(ed) madden roster.
FudgeNuggets
03-24-06, 04:54 PM
Ok just go to the dashboard
then go to the system-blade (the purple one if no themes are applied)
then go to memory
select your hard drive
there are categories listed here that you can delete from
gamer profile is where you delete the profile from
videos and trailers is where you go to get rid of Titanic, Inside the 360 and the Warren Miller snowboard film.
Snoochie Boochies!!! :thup:
well when it comes out i think meny will find the "9 core cell processer" is just another dual core or somthin
or sonys gonna tell you its not a month before launtch
seriously who needs 50gb? if the hdd is 60gb then blu-ray is useless
i think a dl dvd (8.5gb) whold be fine for any games
linux on the ps3.....that chold be interesting
if blu ray drives and disks ever get cheap then the ps3 chold turn into a dirt cheap gameing pc(last i checked you can transfer any win game into a linux game if you have the time.....) oh and it plays ps3 games
800$? my votes for rev
AngelfireUk83
03-25-06, 07:49 PM
It's going to be expensive I reckon as well Microsoft will be waiting in the wings for a sudden demand for there 360. Maybe even Ninty with the (currently named) Revolution as well if the price for PS3 is be double of what 360 is.
Sony themselves have also stated that it's going to be expensive we'll have to wait and see in November. So start pre-ordering now if you want one?
at costco xbox 360's were selling for just under $500(premium bundle) and on ebay for up to 3 times that amount. if the ps3 sells for $800 or more imagine how much it would cost? YIKES!
i won't buy a ps3 but i hope it does get released so xbox drops the price on the 360 so i can buy one. by then the 360 will have so many mods and hacks(there are currently alot).
or perhaps ms will release an xbox3??? i hope ms squashes sony to become the market leader so all the japanese game developers get the freedom they need to develop for ms.
my cousins stationed in japan and they are so anti-xbox over there its funny. they choose an inferior ps2 system of the original xbox???
sony please release the ps3 on time so i can get my 360 :)
they wont buy an xbox because all the games are uncreative
japanese want creative games thats why the like animal crossing and pokemon and pikmin etc
FudgeNuggets
03-26-06, 02:54 PM
Japan just likes weird crap, anybody remember the Japanese GameCube game where you're a ghost and the whole objective of the game is to screw with the people that are in "your" house by moving objects, banging on stuff etc...? Tokyo is like the sensory overload ADD capital of the universe.
deathBOB
03-26-06, 03:10 PM
Japan just likes weird crap, anybody remember the Japanese GameCube game where you're a ghost and the whole objective of the game is to screw with the people that are in "your" house by moving objects, banging on stuff etc...? Tokyo is like the sensory overload ADD capital of the universe.
Hmm... Wierd games or sequelitis? I would rather have wierd (fun) games.
AngelfireUk83
03-26-06, 06:13 PM
Take Katamari for instance that's one game I wouldn't play drunk it'll would bore me even if I was sober. They even like them horse racing games over there too maybe it's to fill the gap until Metal Gear comes or while Final Fantasy 12 was in creation.
OC Noob
03-26-06, 08:14 PM
they wont buy an xbox because all the games are uncreative
japanese want creative games thats why the like animal crossing and pokemon and pikmin etc
There tastes are very different, but the creativity thing is just a cop-out.
Animal Crossing (fun as it is for a while) is just an extremely light version of the sims with fuzzy animals. I don't see what is so creative about 100 different pokemon titles that are all pretty much like the card game (the card game was original to some extent). Pikmin is an interestng twist on RTS's.
I guess I just don't see throwing fuzzy animals into games or taking pet sims and putting them on a handheld as profound creativity like some people do.
The are just stealing material from another source and putting their twist on it just like North American and Euro game devs do and we see there stuff and think its really, really different because its foreign, but most of its been beaten to death over there. Its all in the perspective I guess.
Seriously, there hasn't been 1 good use of the dual screen that has made it more than a bit more convinient than 1 screen and people have been making touch screen games on PDAs for years before Nintendo ever began plans on DS.
Just because its new to you doesn't mean its any less stale then anything you are used to seeing since you were a child.
Its nice to see inovation, but 99% of inovation fails because it just sucks so tried and true formula have there place in all gaming markets. Hell, if Kameo came out on the Cube people would have made such a big stink over it being creative and a great game that it wouldn't be funny, but its an Xbox game so people blow it off and nit pick it to death. e.g. the idiots that whine about a platformer only being 20 hours long and acting like it should have been an epic 200 hour RPG.
ps I really do enjoy Pikman and Animal Crossing so I'm not saying they are bad, I am just saying they aren't that different than games I've played before. I am saying Nintendogs sucks. Its like a handheld pet sim and gets boring very quickly because there is no depth to it. Its really just a mass market cutesy title for non-gamers, not a quality game like Mario and Luigi Partners in Time.
Hey man, Zelda came from Japan. They are therefore A-OK in my book.
oh and it plays ps3 games
LOL. Nice. Sort of an afterthought "oh yeah, and the PS3 plays PS3 games too....bonus!"
AngelfireUk83
03-28-06, 07:51 AM
Looks like we may start wondering what PS3 can really do...???
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30597
For what your getting its worth it.
Your basically getting a semi-super computer for under 1000 bucks.
can it get any better?
FudgeNuggets
03-28-06, 03:46 PM
Looks like we may start wondering what PS3 can really do...???
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30597
Microsoft says that Sony was lying about being able to do 1080p. They said that if it were possible then they would've done it. Also they said that people with current-gen HDMI 1.1 would be SOL without some kind of converter or something to let 1.3(PS3s standard) work with it. Looks like Microsoft was right. I hope I'm wrong but after the delay (that we all KNEW would happen anyway, just like we KNOW there will be shortages at X-Mas) I'm thinking Sony put the hype machine into HYPErdrive and what was promised out of the PS3 will be a lot different than what we get (as was the 360).
Here is a good site for some 360 news:
http://www.majornelson.com
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