View Full Version : submerging the whole MOBO and cards in water..
adamtekh
11-07-01, 05:58 PM
so i was think why not submerge your mobo and cards in water , and cool the water ...
is their something i can put in distiled water to make it non carosive and not conduct electricity ?
or is their a better liqued than water?
Don't try this at home folks!:D
TheCrow
11-07-01, 06:19 PM
You can that again! :D
If you want to do a barbacue, i wouldnt advice you to use a PC!
Just consider the smell....
Ill have a video card..well done, please!:D
humm, crunchy!
Anyway, i dont think there a way to take the conductivity out of the water...But science isnt exactly my area!
I dont know how condictive can oil motor can be, but its only an idea...
VashTheStampede
11-07-01, 06:22 PM
People have fully submerged their systems in mineral oil, but mineral oil does not transfer heat that well.
~RT~
heres a site that just went nuts with that idea... very interesting reading to say the least!!!
OCTools (http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=supercool.html)
electronic parts + water = bad news
RangerJoe34
11-07-01, 07:01 PM
3M FLourinert......but its $500/gallon..soo you decide if you want the cpu to be below freezing and you have lots o money
Thelemac
11-07-01, 07:52 PM
Water by itself is not conductive...water only conducts when it's some sort of solution. The fact that almost everything dissolves in water will lend the problems to that, cause you'll always have something on some part that will have something conductive to be dissolved in water.
adamtekh
11-07-01, 09:08 PM
thanks for the info , i was just going to try it out on my old 200 pent mmx with 64 megs of DIMM RAM ( OMG DIMM on a 200 ) :)
me and my friend r looking for cooling that isnt so loud , but extream @ the same time. i mean like every one can do water cooling with a water block
Christoph
11-07-01, 09:40 PM
Take lots of pictures of all the pretty sparks.
Warlord2
11-07-01, 09:47 PM
boy forth of July has came sooner thin I thought
adamtekh
11-07-01, 09:55 PM
u ppl have no faith , ill make it work :)
FerrariF50
11-08-01, 12:02 AM
lol
Thelemac
11-08-01, 12:35 AM
You could cover everything with silicone or something similar...fill all the slots with dielectric grease...
Basically, condensation proof your board.
And sacrifice a chicken for good luck. :D
Always have to make a mess of that poor ol chicken......personally I'd use two. Chickens that is! Every bit of luck is needed with this idea. :D :D :D
If you were able to completly seal that puppy up so as to make it waterproof would not the silicone covering cause it to heat up more? Or would it's insulating ability become negligable with that much water to cool the system?
For great cooling I have 1 word. "BONG" Mine will be done by Christmas! Lalala!
Qualtran
11-08-01, 02:23 AM
WOW! You should really all read that submersion article! Part 1 and 2! thats pretty amazing stuff that they did there.
r0ckstarbob
11-08-01, 06:38 AM
aw jeez man, don't do that. even commercially distilled water isn't completely dielctric. federal regulations only require they get within 10 or 15% of true.
man go the mineral oil route, or something else dielectric. go water and its not going to matter how many chickens you've got strung up.
you'll need a clean room, and you'll need to UTTERLY remove any and ALL dirt/dust/metal flakes/dandruff before you plunge it in. you'll also need to find a way to prevent the polutants in the air from contaminating the water...
this is a bad idea
post pics if you're still alive after you're done :rolleyes:
adamtekh
11-08-01, 07:38 AM
ill make it work , never said ill use water. just need a liqued that will work
Crash893
11-08-01, 07:44 AM
i had an idea for that
why dont you vacume seal a mobo in some sort of plastic then you can dip it in what ever you want
i have a pic of what i mean some where around here ill try to post it later
r0ckstarbob
11-08-01, 07:44 AM
rock on crouton. remember, the magic word you're going to want to pay real close attention to is
DIELECTRIC
keep us posted. am curious to see how this works out for ya.
r0ckstarbob
11-08-01, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by crash893
i had an idea for that
why dont you vacume seal a mobo in some sort of plastic then you can dip it in what ever you want
i have a pic of what i mean some where around here ill try to post it later
thaaats actually not a bad idea as long as you can prevent it from tearing....
Or melting! :)
Melting the plastic could be very bad! :)
DIELECTRIC! Be careful or you just might!:)
zoopa_man
11-08-01, 05:58 PM
I have seen this done somewhere with liquid nitrogen. I'm trying to remember what they did to "waterproof" their board. What I think they did was spray about 6 cans of clear coat spray paint onto it. and used dielectric grease and all kinds of silicone to try to "waterproof" it. Its worth a try, and the board is going to die no matter what. Just remember that water conducts electricity.
I would hate to see another post added to the "stupid things we have done" Thread. Keep your head with this one, don't get huirt having fun. That makes mom mad.
CrystalMethod
11-08-01, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by RangerJoe34
3M FLourinert......but its $500/gallon..soo you decide if you want the cpu to be below freezing and you have lots o money
When I looked into it, it was sold by weight, not by volume. I got a quote at $80 a kilogram. The stuff is roughtly twice the weight of water. Brain isn't functioning right now, you can convert it...
oc jason
11-09-01, 07:18 AM
i can hook yall up little by litte, on our base we use a non condutive liquid called coolanol. You CAN pu the eniture box in it totally submeged and if it frys your parts ill pay for them. We drop $225,000.00 parts in it while running stree tests to keep it cool, they heat absorbsion is AMAZING, but youll have to cycle it and cool it somewhere as it absorbs massive heat, my buddys system is in it now, in a 50gallon aquarium. It is not too xpensive just do a search for it- ill post some pics of the submerged system when i can
adamtekh
11-09-01, 08:15 AM
R U GOD !!!
Originally posted by [OC] Jason
i can hook yall up little by litte, on our base we use a non condutive liquid called coolanol. You CAN pu the eniture box in it totally submeged and if it frys your parts ill pay for them. We drop $225,000.00 parts in it while running stree tests to keep it cool, they heat absorbsion is AMAZING, but youll have to cycle it and cool it somewhere as it absorbs massive heat, my buddys system is in it now, in a 50gallon aquarium. It is not too xpensive just do a search for it- ill post some pics of the submerged system when i can
Hard Drive and all?!?! Are you sure those seals on a HD are good enough to keep it out? I mean, I don't wanna screw up a perfectly good HD just because some got in there, and now the platter dosen't turn as fast from the higher visvoscity.... I was thinking about just keeping the drives OUT of whatever I'm dunkin' the comp in....
JigPu
ButcherUK
11-09-01, 09:28 AM
HDDs have an air-tight seal, if anything got into the platter chamber (such as a spec of dust), it would break the harddrive.
Intraveinous
11-09-01, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by ButcherUK
HDDs have an air-tight seal, if anything got into the platter chamber (such as a spec of dust), it would break the harddrive.
No, and No...
There is a little hole in 90% of hard drives that goes to a filter and dessicator but provides ventilation for the platter chamber. Also, I have had hard drives that I have run without covers for weeks and weeks... We had a computer in a store I worked in that was basically all the pieces screwed down to the counter, open, and running. Hard drive open, CD drive with no cover, etc etc etc. True that it is not good for it, and the HD eventually died after about 6 or 7 months of sitting open and running every day, but one speck of dust didn't immediately kill it. Hmmm... I'm feeling saucy, I think I'll put a window in my Hard drive.
:D :eek: :D
Peace
John
I myself would like to venture into submerged cooling. But I haven't found the right liquid to do it with. I'd need something affordable that is dielectric, and had good thermal properties. Flourinert is pretty much out of the question. And mineral oil obviously doesn't work that well, or so I've heard. Anyone else with any suggestions?
adamtekh
11-09-01, 03:07 PM
yes we where going to keep the drives out , pluss the psu . we r not that stupid
Originally posted by [OC] Jason
i can hook yall up little by litte, on our base we use a non condutive liquid called coolanol. You CAN pu the eniture box in it totally submeged and if it frys your parts ill pay for them. We drop $225,000.00 parts in it while running stree tests to keep it cool, they heat absorbsion is AMAZING, but youll have to cycle it and cool it somewhere as it absorbs massive heat, my buddys system is in it now, in a 50gallon aquarium. It is not too xpensive just do a search for it- ill post some pics of the submerged system when i can I searched around and found they use it for radar systems, space shuttle, etc. It is 50/50 deionized water and antifreeze. Will it work? Guess it will but what does glycol do to rubber, circuit board, and other materials after prolonged immersion?
Qualtran
11-09-01, 06:46 PM
I found some info on that coolanol stuff, appears it is mainly used for cooling engines. Heres the sites with the info: http://www.exxon.com/exxon_lubes/tigerbytes/documents/brochures/bro053.htm and http://www.maximausa.com/products/misc/coolanol.asp
ButcherUK
11-09-01, 06:57 PM
Obviously 1 spec won't just kill it dead, but if you read across a part of the platter which has any dust on it at all it'll toast that track. HDD heads float on a cushion of air thinner than a spec of dust above the platter, if it hit's dust it'd drag it round several thousand times per minute ;) Also if it's normally on then dust is less likely to settle - it'd be thrown flying by the rotation of the disc.
As for the dessicator / filter quite probably, I just assumed they're sealed due to dust thing, an air vent makes sense though.
Originally posted by Intraveinous
No, and No...
There is a little hole in 90% of hard drives that goes to a filter and dessicator but provides ventilation for the platter chamber. Also, I have had hard drives that I have run without covers for weeks and weeks... We had a computer in a store I worked in that was basically all the pieces screwed down to the counter, open, and running. Hard drive open, CD drive with no cover, etc etc etc. True that it is not good for it, and the HD eventually died after about 6 or 7 months of sitting open and running every day, but one speck of dust didn't immediately kill it. Hmmm... I'm feeling saucy, I think I'll put a window in my Hard drive.
:D :eek: :D
Peace
John
AGREED!
Have you not herd the phrase, do not cover ventalation holes?
It is usually written on hard drives!!!
Harddrives are not sealed!!!
Coolent + Lazer = 0% Functional Hard Drive
You also have to worry about removeable media.
Floppy Drives, CD-Roms, ZIPs, Travan Tape Drives...
You might as well leave the OUT of the solution!!!
ButcherUK
11-09-01, 07:05 PM
Hard Drives don't have a Laser (or even a Lazer ;)) though, they're magnetic.
Originally posted by ButcherUK
Hard Drives don't have a Laser (or even a Lazer ;)) though, they're magnetic. Just get a long ide cable and leave it out.(of whatever you are dipping it in)
Oups, My Bad
I was thinking about those prototype crystal hard drives.
oc jason
11-09-01, 08:22 PM
they wont immediately die from dust, and yes there is a hole, that he covered in rubber cement, no the heat dont get out the hole, but it dont need to its watercooled
ButcherUK
11-10-01, 12:55 AM
I would have thought the hole was for thermal expansion / contraction of the air rather than due to heating, of course in a submersion system the temp is much more constant.
Qualtran
11-10-01, 01:00 AM
Thats a good point. If the hole is sealed, the pressure in the drive will change whenever the temperature changes. Since you are making volume a constant, you can calculate how much the pressure could change along with temperature by using this equation: Pressure1/Temperature1 = Pressure2/Temperature2
This is an interesting idea- I have a mobo to donate to this cause
I have an FIC PA2013- not a great OC board, but perfect for this experiment.
I don't have time to mess with it, but if one of you freaks out there wants to try to fire it up submersed in liquid, I'm all for it. It's a socket 7 board, and I'd donate a cpu for it too but they're still worth something.
Cooling effectiveness be damned, I just want to see the thing run at all in the manner proposed!
I just love the idea of seeing your mobo/CPU/everything else in a fishtank.... It seems so.... cool...
Mabey you could connect a tube to the HD so that it acts as a snorkel for the vent hole... Then you could cool your HD too!
One last thing.... Mabey it's just that in the days of the 386, HDs flew quite a bit higher, but once, I completely took the top off the HD, and ran the computer.... Worked fine, and still works fine (I put the cover back on....). The head seemed to fly WAY above the platter. I mean, probably a quarter of an inch!! And even whenever I stopped the read/write head from moving (call me crazy, but I stuck in a screwdriver and forced the little arm to stay still... Hey! It's a 386!! I got it for $20! Killing it wouldn't break my heart....), the platters stopped, and the head was STILL a quarter inch above the platter! Mabey I was looking at the wong thing??
Killer of Hard Drives :eek: :D
JigPu
I think there is a big magnet that lifts the heads
off the platters. (lifs from resting position)
When the drive is not in use the heads go back down.
If you know the setting LANDZ or somthing like that,
I forget the correct spelling. This is where the hard drives
heads rest. That setting is Landing Zone.
Most people get confused when they see the hard drive open
when it is not running. - I just wanted to clerify things.
You can also tweak the level of the heads by a screw towards
the very back of the rack that the heads are positioned on.
I have the Antec KS-188 (http://www.antec-inc.com/product/cases/valu188.htm) case, and it's big. Huge. But all the hard drives, 5.25" drives, the one external 3.5" bay and the power supply are all above the halfway point. So if you could find a way to seal it up, you could fill the lower half with liquid and just have the mobo and expansion cards submerged. If it weren't my only computer, I'd be tempted to try it. Perhaps after I get some cash, I'll buy a new case along with my new PC, and see if I can do it. But I still need to find out what to submerge it in.
combatmedic
11-10-01, 05:02 PM
Hard drive heads are help in place by a cusion of air. They are close enough that if there was a fingerprint on the platter, the head would hit it.
-Mike
Originally posted by combatmedic
Hard drive heads are help in place by a cusion of air. They are close enough that if there was a fingerprint on the platter, the head would hit it.
-Mike
not entirely true
Originally posted by adamtekh
so i was think why not submerge your mobo and cards in water , and cool the water ...
is their something i can put in distiled water to make it non carosive and not conduct electricity ?
or is their a better liqued than water?
Are you serious????
So what are you using during your decision making? I think arrowhead is a fine brand of H2O but if your after distilled maybe a distilled vinegar or everclear is in order?
Originally posted by JigPu
I just love the idea of seeing your mobo/CPU/everything else in a fishtank.... It seems so.... cool...
Mabey you could connect a tube to the HD so that it acts as a snorkel for the vent hole... Then you could cool your HD too!
One last thing.... Mabey it's just that in the days of the 386, HDs flew quite a bit higher, but once, I completely took the top off the HD, and ran the computer.... Worked fine, and still works fine (I put the cover back on....). The head seemed to fly WAY above the platter. I mean, probably a quarter of an inch!! And even whenever I stopped the read/write head from moving (call me crazy, but I stuck in a screwdriver and forced the little arm to stay still... Hey! It's a 386!! I got it for $20! Killing it wouldn't break my heart....), the platters stopped, and the head was STILL a quarter inch above the platter! Mabey I was looking at the wong thing??
Killer of Hard Drives :eek: :D
JigPu
LOL
destructive - possibly?
curious - maybe?
overclocker - defenitly!
adamtekh
11-12-01, 09:28 AM
the idea of just water is not an option it would surely fry my comp
that coolanol stufff looks like what we will use for r lil project
not that my pent 200 needs this kinda cooling , its just a test bed
AMD_OCER
11-13-01, 11:49 AM
Polyalphaolefin is what the AirForce is using in their planes to cool the electronic systems. PAO is also a common base for hydraulic fluid and synthetic motor oil. It can be found for around $100 for 5 gallons, which is much cheaper than Flouroinert. And it is what Unisys and Honeywell use to cool their mainframes.
http://www.afrl.af.mil/successstories/1998/tech_transfer/tt11.pdf
What do you all think?
Originally posted by AMD_OCER
Polyalphaolefin is what the AirForce is using in their planes to cool the electronic systems. PAO is also a common base for hydraulic fluid and synthetic motor oil. It can be found for around $100 for 5 gallons, which is much cheaper than Flouroinert. And it is what Unisys and Honeywell use to cool their mainframes.
http://www.afrl.af.mil/successstories/1998/tech_transfer/tt11.pdf
What do you all think?
Welcome aboard, AMD_OCER. You may well have answered my questions.
Can you get your hands on an MSDS for Polyalphaolefin? I'd like to know more about it. Is it used for submerged cooling? And do you know of any places a civy could purchase some of this stuff? $100 for 5 gallons is rather affordable.
Hmm....may not be the right stuff. It doesn't mention submerged cooling, but closed loop cooling. And work on if this stuff is dielectric?
AMD_OCER
11-13-01, 12:29 PM
http://www.selectlubricants.com/msds/msds-sl41.htm
This is for SHC 624 made by Mobil Oil Corp.
Here is a link with more info.
http://www.pticorp.com.br/37810325.pdf
As to it's non conductivity, that may take more research to be sure that it is non conductive.
Thanks for those links. An interesting read. The stuff seems pretty safe, and has a flash point of <450*F. So that's pretty safe, unless your OCing your 1.4GHz to 5GHz. Which would be fun.
But yeah, unless we can find out if it's non-conductive, it might not be the stuff to use...pooh.:(
AMD_OCER,
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!!
This Thread is getting more interesting...
AMD_OCER
11-13-01, 05:16 PM
Thank you for the welcome Wa11y and YMAN.
I have found some oils that use Polyalphaolefin as the base, and one in particular has an insulating property up to 45KV. So it looks like this might be the good stuff.
I am waiting back for a response from Mobil about SHC 624 if it is dielectric. I hope they get back to me soon.
An idea I had was to use peltiers to cool the CPU, GPU and Chipsets. Then just have a BIG heatsink on the hot sides. Immerse the motherboard vertically, with peripheral plugs, keyboard mouse etc.. and expansion slots above the level of the oil. So the motherboard would be about 95% submerged. Use a big pump to circulate the oil into a cooling chamber cooled by a vapor change setup, then back into the motherboard tank.
Probably costly I know:(
Originally posted by AMD_OCER
Thank you for the welcome Wa11y and YMAN.
I have found some oils that use Polyalphaolefin as the base, and one in particular has an insulating property up to 45KV. So it looks like this might be the good stuff.
I am waiting back for a response from Mobil about SHC 624 if it is dielectric. I hope they get back to me soon.
An idea I had was to use peltiers to cool the CPU, GPU and Chipsets. Then just have a BIG heatsink on the hot sides. Immerse the motherboard vertically, with peripheral plugs, keyboard mouse etc.. and expansion slots above the level of the oil. So the motherboard would be about 95% submerged. Use a big pump to circulate the oil into a cooling chamber cooled by a vapor change setup, then back into the motherboard tank.
Probably costly I know:(
Interesting!!!
Maybe even strap one of those 60MM 50CFM deltas,
it would be in diealectric material!!! Proboably move a good
few gallons an hour. (depending on thickness & weather the
material promotes magnetic discharge)
As for Price - Welcome to the OC World :D :rolleyes: :D
adamtekh
11-13-01, 07:28 PM
thanks for all the info , keep it coming to if u would please. as i just my 200 up and running so its ready to be tested yo
CrystalMethod
11-14-01, 12:42 AM
Only other liquid that comes to mind that isn't electrically conductive is acetone. Unfortunately, it'll wreak havoc on your system components, so it's not really and option.
Computers can be run underwater. But its hard to do and expensive. When I used to work for an oceanographic institute I used a laptop while diving, it was a regular laptop with a few mods.
The case was not sealed but everything inside was dipped in conformal coating thoroughly and several times. External ports and connectors were just filled in with silicone sealant. It was real funy to climb out of the water and tip the pc upside down to watch a few litres of water pouring out! ;)
If you wanted to imerse a mobo in water coating the mobo and using distilled water would work. With two small problems.
1. Even suposed distilled water aint 100% free of ions, so it will conduct. As it contacts metal it will become slowly more conductive. (I'll spare you the chemistry.)
2. Even the best quality conformal coatings will 'burn off' after a while. They are designed to melt away when a soldering iron is applied, (around 550 C). But will degrade over time at any temp.
Mikes verdict: Possibel but not worth the hassle. But if you do get it working show us the pics. (Or tell us where to send the flowers)
;)
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