just say no to low flow.

CCUABIDExORxDIE · Apr 7, 2006

low flow Aqua Computers gear that is.

http://www.systemcooling.com/aqua_computer_xt-01.html

for those too lazy to read...the 350 dollar kit they provide...is on par with an xp120 with a panaflo low at 7v.

speed bump · Apr 7, 2006

Well looking at it I would say that this kit without that sucky rad(substitute in a thermochill as these are mostly sold over there and this thing would do very well. the blocks does well at very lowflow <2gpm. Also that rad would benefit from a more powerful fan becuase of the FPI that it has, and a shroud would help also becuase the rad is 160 not 120.

The one big variable you have tp wonder about in this test is mounting though did he do multiple mounts and take the best one or take his first mount without checking.

Finally I wouldn't buy one of those unless maybe I wanted low flow quiet and I lived in EU I might look at that block and pump with 3/8" tubing and a thermochill rad.

Otter · Apr 7, 2006

speed bump said:
The one big variable you have tp wonder about in this test is mounting though did he do multiple mounts and take the best one or take his first mount without checking.

This guy would never do that. Read the top of page four:
http://www.systemcooling.com/aqua_computer_xt-04.html

ziggo0 · Apr 7, 2006

For $350 you can get a BIP II, Apogee, MAZE4, MCP655, Tubing and more...I can see why kits are so frowned upon.

techun · Apr 7, 2006

i don't care, it's GOT to be easier than making it all myself

im getting one today

-aDaM^ · Apr 7, 2006

This is why you dont buy a kit, they suck lol. if you want a GOOD kit, go buy a Swiftech Apexx Ultra.

CCUABIDExORxDIE · Apr 8, 2006

techun said:
i don't care, it's GOT to be easier than making it all myself

im getting one today

i hope you kidding.

ziggo0 said:
For $350 you can get a BIP II, Apogee, MAZE4, MCP655, Tubing and more...I can see why kits are so frowned upon.

for 350 bucks you can get a storm, a D5, a BIX3, and a Full cover DD block for the 7 series or x1XXX series cards. thats why i frown upon AC. it costs 350 bucks...and performs like 55 dollar aircooling.

Paapaa · Apr 8, 2006

CCUABIDExORxDIE said:
for 350 bucks you can get a storm, a D5, a BIX3, and a Full cover DD block for the 7 series or x1XXX series cards. thats why i frown upon AC. it costs 350 bucks...and performs like 55 dollar aircooling.

Remember that the kit is not supposed to be the most efficient, but very quiet. D5 might not be the best pump for that. DDC seems to perform almost identically and it is a lot more quiet (and cheaper). See this:

http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-14.html
http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-16.html

Apogee is also cheaper than Storm delivering equal performance and less restriction (at least with processors having IHS). There might be even better choises than Apogee - don't know. And the bigger the radiator, less airflow you need as free convection does the work. I'd guess the best solution would be a thin triple radiator, an air duct and one very slow fan.

Daddyjaxx · Apr 8, 2006

Paapaa said:
Remember that the kit is not supposed to be the most efficient, but very quiet. D5 might not be the best pump for that. DDC seems to perform almost identically and it is a lot more quiet.

Huh? I can't hear my D5 at all.... or I'm deaf.

Paapaa · Apr 8, 2006

Daddyjaxx said:
Huh? I can't hear my D5 at all.... or I'm deaf.

If you are deaf, then you really don't have to worry about silencing your computer

But seriously, it all depends on other noise sources you have. It looks like you have 2 Raptors and a third quieter HD. Those most likely make so much noise that your D5 can't be heard. You might also have some louder fans which mask the noise from the pump, like on DFI Ultra-D, on your radiator or in your PSU. Don't know. :shrug:

The situation is different if one really aims for silence: passive PSU, 1-2 very silent HDs (damped), only 0-3 very silent 120mm fans on the radiator/case. Then the difference between DDC and D5 could matter a lot more. This is why one should always take the user comments regarding noise with a grain of salt: it all depends.

CCUABIDExORxDIE · Apr 8, 2006

Paapaa said:
Remember that the kit is not supposed to be the most efficient, but very quiet. D5 might not be the best pump for that. DDC seems to perform almost identically and it is a lot more quiet (and cheaper). See this:

http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-14.html
http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-16.html

Apogee is also cheaper than Storm delivering equal performance and less restriction (at least with processors having IHS). There might be even better choises than Apogee - don't know. And the bigger the radiator, less airflow you need as free convection does the work. I'd guess the best solution would be a thin triple radiator, an air duct and one very slow fan.

the Apogee doesnt deliever equal performance with the Apogee...its not as good at all. it might be less restrictive, but still, doesnt warrent people buying it. also...the D5 can be adusted for silence. it has like 5 settings. and a BIPIII would drive down prices even more. also...the d5 is 1/2in native, where as the DDC is 3/8th native, making you hafta adjust or do the DDC flow mod.

Paapaa · Apr 8, 2006

CCUABIDExORxDIE said:
the Apogee doesnt deliever equal performance with the Apogee...its not as good at all. it might be less restrictive, but still, doesnt warrent people buying it.

(Was that a typo?) Just join the crowd here. The jury is out there.

CCUABIDExORxDIE said:
also...the D5 can be adusted for silence. it has like 5 settings. and a BIPIII would drive down prices even more. also...the d5 is 1/2in native, where as the DDC is 3/8th native, making you hafta adjust or do the DDC flow mod.

That is true but D5@5 and DDC have almost identical performance in high restriction systems. At lower setting DDC is better at high restriction. (Just see the link). With low restriction systems D5 provides higher flow rates. I'm also not sure how D5 is actually adjusted. If the heat from potentiometer goes into water, then DDC is clearly better as it consumes less energy and thus heats the water less. We can continue this discussion here to keep this thread "clean". :burn:

Otter · Apr 9, 2006

Paapaa said:
Apogee is also cheaper than Storm delivering equal performance and less restriction (at least with processors having IHS). There might be even better choises than Apogee - don't know.

If (and it is a major if) you believe the CPU temp data, all CPU blocks perform about the same with the current generation of processors.
http://www.leesspace.com/images/Web_posting/Table3-A64 at 1_38V.gif
(Chart and tests by Lee Garbutt/Robotech following up on his CPU temp tests from this article
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_apogee-01.html)

So why stop at the Apogee? A maze 3 or 4 would give you even better flow, which ought to help at least a little with the rad and any other blocks in the system.
http://www.systemcooling.com/images/reviews/LiquidCooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image24big.gif

Daddyjaxx · Apr 9, 2006

Otter said:
If (and it is a major if) you believe the CPU temp data, all CPU blocks perform about the same with the current generation of processors.

I'm with Otter. I always read that the Storm is so much better than the TDX. How much better can it cool? .5c or maybe 1c at the most?

Otter · Apr 9, 2006

Daddyjaxx said:
I'm with Otter. I always read that the Storm is so much better than the TDX. How much better can it cool? .5c or maybe 1c at the most?

Actually, you're not. I have serious doubts about the validity of CPU thermal sensor readings for watercooling. With earlier CPU's, there was more differentiation in block performance, and I'm not convinced it's the IHS rather than sensor placement that makes the blocks all seem to perform the same with the current CPU's.

Here is one of many threads on the question:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=452894

Paapaa · Apr 9, 2006

Otter said:
If you believe the CPU temp data, all CPU blocks perform about the same with the current generation of processors.

Yes, it seems that is the case. The IHS on most new processors seems to make most waterblock perform practically identically. I also want to say that in the only overclock test I have seen Apogee gave identical (well, 10MHz higher) OC as Storm. Sadly this test was made by Swiftech so it can be biased. Still I don't think there are significant or any differences between those block when used with processors having IHS. 10MHz means nothing (about 0,35% difference in clock speeds) in actual computer usage.

Otter said:
So why stop at the Apogee? A maze 3 or 4 would give you even better flow, which ought to help at least a little with the rad and any other blocks in the system.

You are correct, no need to stop at Apogee at all. I just don't know what other blocks there are so that is why I recommended Apogee over Storm. Maze4 might be even better as it seems to be 1. cheaper and 2. less restrictive as you said. Especially the lower price makes it very attractive waterblock! I will definitely consider it (or whatever it will be called) when I update to AM2 later this year. Restriction might mean something when you have multiple blocks in the loop (GPU, chipset...).

Otter · Apr 9, 2006

Paapaa said:
I also want to say that in the only overclock test I have seen Apogee gave identical (well, 10MHz higher) OC as Storm. Sadly this test was made by Swiftech so it can be biased. Still I don't think there are significant or any differences between those block when used with processors having IHS. 10MHz means nothing (about 0,35% difference in clock speeds) in actual computer usage.

Especially if they didn't do exhaustive stability testing. I haven't seen Swiftech's test, but there are a lot of reviewers out there who don't even mention stability testing when overclocking. Apparently, if the system boots, that's good enough for them.

Paapaa · Apr 9, 2006

Otter said:
Especially if they didn't do exhaustive stability testing. I haven't seen Swiftech's test, but there are a lot of reviewers out there who don't even mention stability testing when overclocking. Apparently, if the system boots, that's good enough for them.

No, they didn't test for stability - only 20min runs of CPU burn for each frequency. But even that is irrelevant. Both WBs were tested in similar manner and the results were identical. The whole point is that even if there are differences between those WBs, those differences are so small that they don't show up in any kind of real world test (using processors with IHS). All the tests so far show zero differences or slightly better performance for Apogee. Anyone claiming something (stating that Storm is WOWOMGZuB3rB10ck) else should show some actual data. Here is the post:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1182813&postcount=249

just say no to low flow.

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