3/8"ID and 1/2"ID, big performance difference???

Mobious · Apr 16, 2006

Have yet to nail this down for my new build: 1/2"ID W/C setups are claimed to be more efficent that 3/8"ID, but there are a lot more acessories and a lot more parts for 3/8"ID systems. I can do either one, but if there is a noticeable performance difference between the two: post it here.

-Mobious-

SewerBeing · Apr 16, 2006

You can run a 3/8" setup just fine. The only thing you would need to do is use the Laing DDC pump or put a converter on another pump. Oh and 1/2" is said to be better because it allows for higher flow but you can live just fine with a DDC and any commercial block. Are you having trouble finding any specific parts for 1/2" that exist for 3/8" ID??

thegreek · Apr 16, 2006

buy 1/2 barbs with 7/16 tubing and you're good to go

Cobalt · Apr 16, 2006

I'm gonna be using 3/4" on mostly 1/2" barbs. I'm getting the MCP350 and I couldn't be bothered to use adaptors. That plus the strom only comes with 1/2" barbs so I decided that I might as well go for the added security of the tight fit. I found some nice tubing that you can just heat in hot water and it softens right up. Should work a treat once I finally order the rest of the stuff. I've got to get it shipped in from the US though, to order the same stuff from the UK would cost me £50 more.

soloz2 · Apr 16, 2006

I used 1/2" barbs in my system w/ 7/16" ID masterkleer tubing. it looks great, and it fits tight around my fittings. I just took a coffee mug, put some water in it and stuck it in the microwave to heat up my tubing and slide it on.

Sssnake · Apr 16, 2006

Back to the subject at hand:

Simply put the answer to your question is: NO, you wont see but a marginal performance difference between 3/8 and 1/2". But as stated by the other and found/calculated originally by cathar, 7/16" tubing on 1/2" barbs is the best way to go. Cathar made a small essay on ocau conserning this, but sufficient to say, u get a more homogenic flow with that particular mix. Water wont swirl around the barb-lips etc...
But there is one thing to consider using 3/8" tubing and that is, has allways been and will prolly allways be, that NO pump on this earth like beeing restyricted on the intake side.
Meaning its fine to use 3/8" thru the whole system but do use 1/2" between res and intake on pump, or if ure a "T-line kinda guy" use 1/2" from the T to intake. that will then act as a mini-res and feed more water into the pump, keeping it a happy pet

So unless your pump will be submersibble or will be a native 3/8" barb pump use the apropiate tubing size for the intake barb to keep it from starving, thus hurting you overall flow/head pressure.

-aDaM^ · Apr 16, 2006

soloz2 said:
I used 1/2" barbs in my system w/ 7/16" ID masterkleer tubing. it looks great, and it fits tight around my fittings. I just took a coffee mug, put some water in it and stuck it in the microwave to heat up my tubing and slide it on.

Good idea, way more efficent then boiling water.

Mr. $T$ · Apr 16, 2006

A easy way to make 3/8 fittings take a 7/16 hose is take some 3/8ID 1/2OD tubing and cut it to the length of the barb, slide it over the barb, then put your 7/16 over the 3/8|1/2 tubing. So far it's been working great on my MCP350.

fuzzba11 · Apr 16, 2006

I didn't find any difference in temps moving from 1/2" to 3/8".

Mobious · Apr 17, 2006

If I go 3/8" or 1/2" I will make EVERYTHING in the system be native to that size. Now, I did post earlier that there were parts in 3/8" sizes that aren't made in 1/2" sizes and heres why: for my senior project next year I plan on building a case from scratch (aluminum angles, bars, sheets and tubing all riveted) and I've already run into space issues. I'm attempting to keep the case as small as possible (was origionaly M-ATX spec) but still fit ATX mobos and Fit a BIX2 up front. So, as of now its a normal vertical tower thats 16.5"Lx16.5"Hx7.5" (modeling it out in SketchUp, will post some pics soon), theres easily enough space for 2 5.25s (will fit 3, but I need to relocate some hardware to fit in the third) but theres no space for the res or the pump unless I put them on the bottom of the case (in the middle of the intake flow and in the way of the PCI cards) or suspend them in air (which I don't want to do, I want this to look clean and professional). If the third 5.25" bay will fit: I can add a res into that bay (the other two are taken up by a DVD-RW and a HDD Cooler cuz theres no HDD cage) and just find out where to mount the pump (which will get tricky if I want to keep the middle of my case from being clogged with tubing). It was after I got this idea that I came across this: http://www.koolance.com/shop/produc...d=281&osCsid=406e504a0517d77388997370faa45b66
Yeah yeah, I know its a Koolance and its overpriced; but its is SOOO cool looking and it does exactly what I need it to do which was find a place to put my pump and res so they're completely out of the way. However, this product is only available with 1/4" and 3/8" ID barbs. I went looking for something like it with 1/2" ID barbs, but found nothing. So this brings me back to my origional question: if i got that Koolance thing with all 3/8" ID-barbed water blocks, would there be much of a difference from a 1/2" ID setup all the way around?

-Mobious-

soloz2 · Apr 17, 2006

swiftech makes a nice res and pump combo that retails for $99. it uses the mcp350 pump which is a great little pump. if you want something small and easy to work with then go w/ a 3/8" system and get that swiftech pump (also danger den ddc) it's the best little pump on the market and fits in all sorts of little places.
Another idea for a res would be a swiftech micro res. you could mount that on your side panel.
You could also just do a T-line if space is an issue

Sssnake · Apr 17, 2006

with koolance, i would bet yes. They arent really made for performance. They are more a niche for overpriced bling-bling with average cooling performance. In my book,(And im sure some will seccond it) its a loose-loose situation. You loose both cash and performance. Like mentioned above ddc or mcp350 pump with/without res is prolly the best route for space constrained cases. Like said b4 u could just plug a piece of 1/2" tubing over a 3/8" and then put that on the intake for the pump. That way u will get a small "res" of tubing to feed pump, without any added bulkyness. And also u can ues a slightly bigger "T" with 1/2" on 2 sides and 3/8" on the other, wich will add to easier bleeding. (Talking about 1-3 inches of bigger tubing...) or just put a mcp 350 where it fits and be done with it.... easier to bleed "my way" imo, but its prolly a matter of taste/technique. Obviously nothing said by anyone here is the absolute truth, just our combined experience.

-aDaM^ · Apr 17, 2006

Mobious said:
If I go 3/8" or 1/2" I will make EVERYTHING in the system be native to that size. Now, I did post earlier that there were parts in 3/8" sizes that aren't made in 1/2" sizes and heres why: for my senior project next year I plan on building a case from scratch (aluminum angles, bars, sheets and tubing all riveted) and I've already run into space issues. I'm attempting to keep the case as small as possible (was origionaly M-ATX spec) but still fit ATX mobos and Fit a BIX2 up front. So, as of now its a normal vertical tower thats 16.5"Lx16.5"Hx7.5" (modeling it out in SketchUp, will post some pics soon), theres easily enough space for 2 5.25s (will fit 3, but I need to relocate some hardware to fit in the third) but theres no space for the res or the pump unless I put them on the bottom of the case (in the middle of the intake flow and in the way of the PCI cards) or suspend them in air (which I don't want to do, I want this to look clean and professional). If the third 5.25" bay will fit: I can add a res into that bay (the other two are taken up by a DVD-RW and a HDD Cooler cuz theres no HDD cage) and just find out where to mount the pump (which will get tricky if I want to keep the middle of my case from being clogged with tubing). It was after I got this idea that I came across this: http://www.koolance.com/shop/produc...d=281&osCsid=406e504a0517d77388997370faa45b66
Yeah yeah, I know its a Koolance and its overpriced; but its is SOOO cool looking and it does exactly what I need it to do which was find a place to put my pump and res so they're completely out of the way. However, this product is only available with 1/4" and 3/8" ID barbs. I went looking for something like it with 1/2" ID barbs, but found nothing. So this brings me back to my origional question: if i got that Koolance thing with all 3/8" ID-barbed water blocks, would there be much of a difference from a 1/2" ID setup all the way around?

-Mobious-

I would stay away from Koolance and kits.

rogerdugans · Apr 17, 2006

Mobius-
If your heart is set on that Kollance pump then there probably won't be ANY difference between 1/2 and 3/8 tubing.
You could probably use 1/4" in tube without seeing much of a difference for that matter.

Koolance stuff does work, and it does work pretty well, but it is more along the line of "just enough" than being the kind of things most folks use around here.

The home built systems folks make can dissipate more heat with less noise than anything from Koolance. And they cost less.

From a performance perspective (either overclock OR noise level) you are far better off with the suggestions that have been made here.
Your specific project may well have a lower priority on performance than it does the finished look of the project, and I will grant you that making your own pump/res. (or T-Line) look as slick as that would take some doing.

It really depends on how you feel about having the system's overclocking restricted and still being a LOT louder, as well as spending a lot more money. If that is ok with you, get that Koolance unit.
(One benefit here is that you could use 1/4" tube and have even fewer routing issues.)

If it is NOT ok, your best bet is to figure out a way to make a good pump fit and look good, and use 3/8 or 7/16" tube. Quieter, better overclocking and less money, just more work.

thegreek · Apr 17, 2006

-aDaM^ said:
Good idea, way more efficent then boiling water.

No it's not, it's more dangerous. Water becomes superheated in a microwave which may cause the water to expode when you take it out.

soloz2 · Apr 17, 2006

thegreek said:
No it's not, it's more dangerous. Water becomes superheated in a microwave which may cause the water to expode when you take it out.

I put the water in there for the same amount of time I would put it in there to make a cup of tea or hot chocolate. 2 min for the first time and then to reheat it nothing more than 40sec, with the time getting shorter each time as the water was already warm. If you're careful it's not dangerous at all...

thegreek · Apr 17, 2006

soloz2 said:
I put the water in there for the same amount of time I would put it in there to make a cup of tea or hot chocolate. 2 min for the first time and then to reheat it nothing more than 40sec, with the time getting shorter each time as the water was already warm. If you're careful it's not dangerous at all...

If you know and are careful I know it's not dangerous, but to say it's better without warning anyone someone who might not know might hurt themselves.

jiggamanjb · Apr 17, 2006

thegreek said:
No it's not, it's more dangerous. Water becomes superheated in a microwave which may cause the water to expode when you take it out.

This was on Mythbusters. You have to be very careful with heating 'purified' water. Just to clarify for everyone here is the log:

Myth 3: If you microwave water, when you take it out it will explode.

Experts: Heather Joseph-Witham - Folklorist - When you overheat water in a microwave, when you take it out, it will explode in your face burning you.

Action/Results: Adam and Jamie discover that the only way for water to explode is if it has become super heated, heated beyond boiling. Tap water always boils because it has impurities. Distilled water has no impurities so it won’t boil. Two mugs are placed into the microwave; one filled with tap water the other with distilled. The microwave is then turned on and Adam and Jamie watch to see when the tap water is boiling. When they see this, they know that the distilled water has become super heated. Dropping a sugar cube into the distilled water, a noticeable reaction occurs. There is an instant boiling, and explosion of water, that actually caused water to spill out of the mug. Myth TRUE!

Mobious · Apr 17, 2006

Heres some pics of the chassis I'm working with (there are some SLIGHT revisions that need to be made, but this is pretty much the final on the chassis):

Dims: 17.25"Lx17.5"Hx7.5"W
2 120mm Intake Fans (2 extra for a Push/Pull on the radiator)
2 80mm Exhaust Fans
3 External 5.25" Drive Bays

The color coding on the fans is just to represent the different groups I want the fans to be spliced into. Now, the thing about the Koolance pump was not final, just something i thought was interesting. I DO want as much performance as I can while still keeping the professional look (aka, no more Koolance drive-bay pump). So, back to the drawing board: there is 1 drive bay still open (the green one, just put the drive there for space filling) to work with and some decent mounting points along the case. I want to add that I DID model out a Swiftech Micro Res in the program for this case, and it didn't fit along the side of the radiator (theres only 1" of space there, the micro res is 1.5" wide). The whole point of the forum here is to get information from other people either by their own experience or info they picked up from someone else, so with that in mind: open opinions about how/where to mount a pump and a res for a 1/2" ID system. Note that the entire case is 1/16" thick aluminum and there is not a solid plate behind the motherboard (just 3 support beams). Thanks in advance for the help.

-Mobious-

(PS: I can be flexible about components, and price doesn't matter; just as long as it does what I need it to do at the level of performance that I want it to perform.)

Lee_Kay · Apr 18, 2006

Here is what I noticed today. I built a system for my friend on 3/8 and mine is 1/2. Well he ordered a Tyee Dee waterblock for his X1900 with 3/8 conectors and blow me down if the internal diameter is not the exact same at the 1/2 ones on mine. Im truly ****ed about the whole thing. Because I spend good money going from 3/8 to 1/2 for what? for me to basicly put restrictions on every waterblock.

3/8"ID and 1/2"ID, big performance difference???

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