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Located a PD pump, viable?

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Dice

Dice

Member
​
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
Firstly: Hello all.
Long time listener; first-time caller.
I am interested in WCing for a mixture of both reasons:
Noise reduction=25%
Performance=75%
Currently air-cooling an AMD [email protected] with an hsf that sounds like a vacuum cleaner. (43c average idle, 47c high)
Lian Li pc-60 (Haven't seen case side panels for over a year.)

Having crawled this forum for about a week now, I must say that you folks are the collective authority on WC knowedge.

Now to my poser:

This is the pump in question.

Assuming 12vdc part, are the specs(read: pressures) of this unit realistic for use with readily available, high quality WC parts? (tubing, blocks, rads)

Before you ask, I am awaiting reply from manu re: price.

Math wizards and WC gurus please ponder this and let me know.

Thanks, D
 
:welcome: Dice.

I won't claim wizard or guru status, but I don't think this pump is appropriate for cooling a computer. It's certainly powerful enough, but at 180W, it will be a significant heat source. Some of that will go to the air, but most will go to move the water, and hence to heat the water as friction does its thing. The pump will probably heat the water more than the CPU does. Can the pump be undervolted? The head might be high enough to blow your tubing or rad if something blocked the flow. A releif valve could help there, I suppose. Also, it's likely to be very loud, and the "approximate life" is less than two years.
 
calvin said:
Suggest your read the following:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95014
Click to expand...


I fail to see how that is related. But alas, I merely skimmed thru it. :shrug:

I am posting about a 'PD' pump. Positive Displacement. Not 'RD'.

At any rate, these units are available retail at under $150.

Not bad for a 12vdc ~6 GPM, 60ft head pump which ignores backpressure.


One possible drawback would be the 180 watt power consumption. But for those who use peltier(s) anyhow, I don't see this requirement and a deal-breaker.
 
well this pump would be putting a lot of heat into your water

arent pumps we use like 10,18 or 25 watts? lol
 
Otter said:
:welcome: Dice.

I won't claim wizard or guru status, but I don't think this pump is appropriate for cooling a computer. It's certainly powerful enough, but at 180W, it will be a significant heat source. Some of that will go to the air, but most will go to move the water, and hence to heat the water as friction does its thing. The pump will probably heat the water more than the CPU does. Can the pump be undervolted? The head might be high enough to blow your tubing or rad if something blocked the flow. A releif valve could help there, I suppose. Also, it's likely to be very loud, and the "approximate life" is less than two years.
Click to expand...



Tyvm for the welcome. :)

Thanks for the opinion, also.
 
PD pumps are risky. Your chosen pump is way too big. It very likely consumes more power than your entire computer. I don’t think you want draw 15 amps from your power supply to drive that thing so you’ll probably have to come up with a separate power supply. Also, that particular pump has a life of 1500 hours. That’s only 62.5 days.

That pump is rated at 40 psi but the tubing that we typically use is rated 25-30 psi. You would have to find different tubing to be safe. PD pumps require much better connections between pipe/tubing and components. Otherwise the connections can burst apart from the pressure.

That pump will add more heat to the water than the CPU will. DC pump have greater efficiency than AC pumps, but even using a typical AC efficiency of 50%, you're looking at 90 watts added to the water.

Overall, I would consider it a poor choice.
 
techun said:
well this pump would be putting a lot of heat into your water

arent pumps we use like 10,18 or 25 watts? lol
Click to expand...


Ty for the opinion. I am not sure, but it seems like this pump is designed a bit differently: Normal PC WC pumps are designed to cool themselves with the fluid they are moving.... Are you assuming that that method is being used with this part?

The wattage requirelent is the biggest drawback I can see.
 
First and most importantly I do not consider myself to be any sort of guru but I do have some experience with WCing.....

The kicker for me is the pump you are considering seems more designed for occasional usage creating high pressure flow. The 1500 hours MBT compared to the 50,000 MBT for an MCP655 would make me wonder to start. Secondly even if you are pelt cooling the water is supposed to remove the heat from the pelt. With the amount of heat dump (better part of 180w) this pump would have you would be taking a significant step backwards by comparision to more commonly used pumps like the 655. Lastly when people used Blueline/Panworld or Iwaki pumps with heads nearing 30+ feet we started seeing quite a few threads warning of the amount of pressure those pumps could generate...a pump with a 60ft head would require being extremely careful.

I dont think its a terrible idea I just dont think there is much benefit to using that pump. It would dump too much heat, elevate the chances of a system failure due to a leak (the easiest way to lose your entire computer system- geyser like leaks), and finally it would lack durability.

Just my $0.02
 
Graystar said:
Also, that particular pump has a life of 1500 hours. That’s only 62.5 days.
Click to expand...
Ack, you're right. I slipped a digit and thought it was 10 times that. The pump might last longer than that in WC system, especially if it can be undervolted, but it's clearly not meant to be used 24/7.
 
Dice said:
Normal PC WC pumps are designed to cool themselves with the fluid they are moving.
Click to expand...
No aquarium pump is designed to cool itself with the water it’s pumping. Better pumps, such as the Iwaki line, are design to limit heat transfer as much as possible.
 
Graystar said:
PD pumps are risky. Your chosen pump is way too big. It very likely consumes more power than your entire computer. I don’t think you want draw 15 amps from your power supply to drive that thing so you’ll probably have to come up with a separate power supply. Also, that particular pump has a life of 1500 hours. That’s only 62.5 days.

That pump is rated at 40 psi but the tubing that we typically use is rated 25-30 psi. You would have to find different tubing to be safe. PD pumps require much better connections between pipe/tubing and components. Otherwise the connections can burst apart from the pressure.

That pump will add more heat to the water than the CPU will. DC pump have greater efficiency than AC pumps, but even using a typical AC efficiency of 50%, you're looking at 90 watts added to the water.

Overall, I would consider it a poor choice.
Click to expand...



Ty for the opinion.

Graystar said:
**Snip**Also, that particular pump has a life of 1500 hours. That’s only 62.5 days.
Click to expand...
Yikes, you're right! That fact alone makes this pump unacceptable.
 
Thank you guys for the input.

I will not be using this part in a WC system.

However I don't want this pump to never find it's way into a PC.
That said, I ask anyone who has the inclination, time, money...need for danger and exitement, to try one of these monsters and impress us all with their results.

~D
 
Dice said:
Ty for the opinion. I am not sure, but it seems like this pump is designed a bit differently: Normal PC WC pumps are designed to cool themselves with the fluid they are moving.... Are you assuming that that method is being used with this part?

The wattage requirelent is the biggest drawback I can see.
Click to expand...
The efficiency of Electric motors is usually 85% or better. That's more than 150W going to the water in the form of kinetic energy. All that energy will turn into heat as the coolant races through the system. Now, maybe you can turn the pump down, but if you're going to put 153W of pump heat into the system, you might as well use a smaller pump and a pelt.
 
Edit ...Seems I have been looking at the 301 series for some reason...

Also of note is a retailer's spec sheet which suggests that the manu listed max abilities possible, not reasonable, real-world performance. Go figure...

See it here.

Interestingly, it is equipped with a 10 amp fuse, suggesting 10 amps as max draw/failsafe in the event of catastrophic blockage.


@Otter- I'm still searching to see if it can be undervolted successfully, and if so, to what extent.
 
Last edited:
Well I imagine the MTBF will increase slightly at a lower voltage, but I still don't think it would make it any better suited.
 
Stick with something like an Iwaki or an MCW655/D5 if you're looking for good performance.
 
Pelt blocks are pretty low resistance, go for a high flow pump.

Aquarium pumps would be ideal for you, more heat dump than the 12v guys but that wont make as much difference to your pelt setup, still less than that PD. More flow, the pressure from a PD pump isnt going to help as much as you think with pelt blocks.

Cheaper...
reliable....
quiet.....

grab some resistance/flow rate charts and pressure drop flow rate charts and you will get an idea of how all these combinations work out.
 
citronym said:
Well I imagine the MTBF will increase slightly at a lower voltage, but I still don't think it would make it any better suited.
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me too.

--

Moto7451 said:
Stick with something like an Iwaki or an MCW655/D5 if you're looking for good performance.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good advice.

--

ls7corvete said:
Pelt blocks are pretty low resistance, go for a high flow pump.

Aquarium pumps would be ideal for you, more heat dump than the 12v guys but that wont make as much difference to your pelt setup, still less than that PD. More flow, the pressure from a PD pump isnt going to help as much as you think with pelt blocks.

Cheaper...
reliable....
quiet.....

grab some resistance/flow rate charts and pressure drop flow rate charts and you will get an idea of how all these combinations work out.
Click to expand...

Terrific advice. Should I upgrade to TEC coolong in the future, I would def use AC as the power source for the pelt and it's cooling thus removing my main PSU from the active cooling loop altogether.

--

For this cat, super-high wattage, flowrate and pressure AC solutions have been ruled out as not worth it due to the actual vs. perceived efficiency, initial setup costs/reccurring monthly energy bills, and the price of flood insurance. I will instead focus on an integrated 12vdc/water solution.

This brings me to another question: Is DD's TDX/RBX Socket A adapter compatible with the Swiftech, PolarFlo, other's universal Athlon XP/MP parts?

They seem to be, but does anyone know for sure? I have no holes in which to mount these parts on the mobo, and in this case a picture is worth .001 words.
 
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