fried 1500+ athlon ?

[nutrageous]

Recently I bought a copper heatsink which came with just a pad. I placed the pad (which i ripped a little part of trying to place it on the chip) on the chip. Then I placed the copper heatsink and fan on top.. when i started the pc, nothing came up on the monitor and i smelled a burn odor. When I took out the heat sink I saw a small black burned spot on bottom of heatsink and the chip was mostly black colored. Did I fry my cpu?:( Oh by the way, the cpu was a brand new athlon 1500+. Do you know what happened here? I would just like to know so i don't make the same mistake over again. Do you think it the chip shorted when it touched the heatsink directly ?? i don't know what happened... please shed some light.

thanks :)
mpatel

[Angry]

YOu fried it, You should never use a thermal padwith Athlons, use thermal paste.

[Christoph]

Sorry to hear that. My condolences.
Make sure you research before you try to make a keyring out of it, unless you're going to try to return it.

[nihili]

WHile there is a difference between thermal past and a thermal pad, it's not enough to fry your chip. I don't know whether your chip is fried. But if it is, it's not because you used the thermal pad.

Did you remove the plastic cover from the thermal pad? How long was the computer on before you smelled a burning smell? What other symptoms have you seen? Had the chip ever booted normally? The more detail you can give us, the more likely it is that we can help you out.

The fact that you never got a readable monitor screen indicates that you had problems before the chip would have generated enough heat to fry. If it died that quickly, it would have to have been bad to begin with.

nihili

[Christoph]

Correct. Even if you used the default cooling, it shouldn't have killed your chip. I think an RMA request is in order. Who'd you get the CPU from?

[nutrageous]

I think i did have some plastic on that chip. Some background on the motherboard: its shuttle ak31 k266a. The heatsink is thermalright sk-6 copper. I bought the cpu from newegg.com off priceline.com for $117. You think I would be entitled to a refund? When I get another cpu, should i get thermal grease and stick a thick coating on that chip?

thanks for your help :)
mpatel

[nihili]

Newegg is a good vendor. YOu should be able to RMA it if it's dead.

And you'll have to get thermal grease now, because the thermal pad is a one time use only. HOwever, I'm not sure that your chip is fried. If you left the plasic on (which you shouldn't have) that could account for the black coloring and smell.

Reseat all your components, paying especially close attention to your ram and video card.

Make a trip to Radio Shack or your favorite computer store and get some thermal grease. Best Buy is even carrying Antec stuff where I live. Put the heat sink back on using just enough thermal greas to opaquely cover the core of the cpu, that's about a paper thin even layer, ok, maybe two sheets of paper thick. Cafefully put the heat sink on, and then try to boot. Listen for any beeps or other sounds, and also pay attention to any LEDs that light up and whether the fans turn.

Let us know what happens and we can try to help out.

nihili

[nutrageous]

here is a snapshot of the cpu. Oh btw what does RMA mean?

thank you
mpatel

[nutrageous]

and one more...

[nihili]

RMA = Return Merchandise Authorization = returning the chip for a new one.

I've never seen a fried chip, but that one looks normal to me. I'm assuming the snapshot was taken after the problem. And there don't appear to be any chipped or crushed corners on the core which is a good sign.

Does the thermal pad look pretty much the same as when you put it on? Or did it melt? Also what about the plastic that you left on. If the pad is still the same as it originally was, you can try reseating everything and using the pad. Again, the pad is not as good as grease, but it's enough to get you going.

nihili

[Christoph]

Pads aren't very good, and if you're going to use thermal goop, you should keep the pad off your chip. When the wax on the pad melts, it fills the microscopic holes and crevices in your core and HSF. That means that any thermal goop you ude won't be able to cool as effectively because there's wax in the way.
It looks like you've already used the pad, though. Try lapping the bottom of the HSF a little to get the wax out of there at least. Good luck. Newegg isn't that bad about RMAs, but if the price on your proc goes up, they'll give you a refund so that you have to pay more to get a functional chip.

As far as fried chips go, I don't think that you can always tell if you've brushed the crud off. I had a TBird that fried, and after I brushed the black crud off, it looked fine but still didn't run.

[nutrageous]

Yes, the pad was a bit melted. Are you sure the chip will still work? Becuause i did smell a burn and did you notice the black marks on those two pics? Do you think NewEgg will take this cpu back? What reason should i provide them if they ask me why i am returning. I actually tried just running the cpu w/o heatsink just to see if it even boots, but nothing came up on the screen even a beep was not heard. Do you think the ram (512mb ddr) could have been effected by the cpu situation.


thanks
mpatel

[nihili]

I have no idea if your chip is fried. I'm suggesting ways of testing it. If it's fried, it won't hurt to test it. If it's not fried, you may save yourself the hassle of an RMA.

Never turn your computer on without a heatsink. Athlons fry very fast.

If you decide to do an RMA, explain to newegg that you installed everythign according to instructions but that the computer never booted. Make sure to tell them that it did not even beep. Tell them that you have already double checked the other components (I'm assuming you have) and have come to the conclusion that the chip they sent you does not work. As a result you need for them to authorize your return of that chip so that they can send you a working one.

nihili

[fragleader]

Yeah, it looks like that thing is toast. By the way, you shouldn't run an Athlon without a heatsink attatched EVER! (http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/).

You might want to call newegg and ask them what you should do. They'll probably let you send it back, though you'll probably have to pay for shipping. But that's better than buying a new processor. Good luck, and next time take off the plastic, and think about using a good thermal paste like Arctic Silver II (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as2.htm).

[Christoph]

It's gone. Provided that it's true, go with nihili's RMA explanation. Sorry it happened, just make sure you learn from it, or the chi will have died in vain. I recommend a backup Duron from Pricewatch or eBay. Pricewatch prices are usually cheaper than the final bids, but shipping is also some expensive. Just make sure you don't pay too much. ($36 shipped for a 700 mHz Duron)

Edit: clarification

[el]

newegg should take the RMA they are a solid company. return it before 30days or they won't take it back.

[robertm]

From reading what nutrageous wrote am not sure he mounted the cpu and HSF correctly if this is true you should buy a new unit and not make newegg replace it.

It could be some 1 in 1 million thing and it fried just because, or it wasnt mounted correctly. I dont see why newegg should pay for someone else mistake assuming it was not installed as it should have bin.

If they should replace the CPU please explain why.

Just my thought as someone that runs a company.

[nihili]

Originally posted by robertm
From reading what nutrageous wrote am not sure he mounted the cpu and HSF correctly if this is true you should buy a new unit and not make newegg replace it.

It could be some 1 in 1 million thing and it fried just because, or it wasnt mounted correctly. I dont see why newegg should pay for someone else mistake assuming it was not installed as it should have bin.

If they should replace the CPU please explain why.

Just my thought as someone that runs a company.

Fair question, here's why.

If the problem had been a poorly mounted heatsink, then we should have seen the screeen come up and probably a successful boot into windows. The fact that the core isn't crushed indicates that the heatsink was on relatively straight. Given that, a properly operating CPU would not fry while booting. It might run hot, it might be unstable, but it would at least POST. His didn't POST. Therefore, the CPU was bad prior to installation.

nihili

[robertm]

Could be but then my new KA266-R takes some seconds before I see a screen and get a beep. It could have fried before the BIOS was done posted.

Am not saying it did but it could have. But then read the first post again why did he have the burnt spot on the Heatsink?

Am not sure I buy the CPU was bad?

But I dont have to newegg does

[Hugo 59]

Originally posted by robertm
From reading what nutrageous wrote am not sure he mounted the cpu and HSF correctly if this is true you should buy a new unit and not make newegg replace it.

It could be some 1 in 1 million thing and it fried just because, or it wasnt mounted correctly. I dont see why newegg should pay for someone else mistake assuming it was not installed as it should have bin.

If they should replace the CPU please explain why.

Just my thought as someone that runs a company.

I agree with what nihili said and as someone who runs a business myself I think it is the right thing to do.

If you look around these forums or any others [H] forums, anandtech where ever you look thier are people recommending Newegg. They don't recommend them because of there low price's lots of places have low price's they recommend them because they offer great customer service and low prices. Serving your costumers right will earn you a lot more money then not replacing a burnt chip ever will.

[nihili]

The CPU is blackened because it's fried. THe question is whether it was fried because of defect or operator error. As I recall, the Tom's Hardware thing took about 10 seconds to fry a Tbird with no heatsink. The XPs run cooler and should fry slower. Furthermore he did have a heatsink that was at least moderately close to being properly installed. So he should easily have been able to POST.

At the very least these facts put the preponderance of evidence on the side of a faulty chip. If someone wants to claim operator error was at fault, they need to give a clear description of what sort of operator error, consistent with the original description, could have resulted in frying the chip prior to posting.

nihili

[robertm]

Nihili please go read his post they say the heat sink had a black mark as well as the CPU that tells me the CPU fried with the Heatsink in place.

Now if the heatsink didnt have this black mark i would have to agree with you.

That swings me to think its more operator.

In the end we might have to agree to disagree :)

[nutrageous]

Indeed, the first time I ever booted the system I did'nt even reach POST but smelled a burnt odor. I do not think I installed the heatsink or cpu wrong, because I'm not completely new at this. I made a celeron 700 mhz system before and it works just fine.


thanks
mpatel

[nihili]

Originally posted by robertm
Nihili please go read his post they say the heat sink had a black mark as well as the CPU that tells me the CPU fried with the Heatsink in place.

Now if the heatsink didnt have this black mark i would have to agree with you.

That swings me to think its more operator.

In the end we might have to agree to disagree :)

We agree on the evidence, but not on the interpretation. Yes, the CPU fried with the heatsink in place. It's that very fact that shows it was a bad CPU. An properly function XP with even a marginally installed heatsink will not fry before the POST. The black mark on the heatsink shows that there was a heatsink that was at least marginally installed. The CPU fried prior to POST. Ergo, the XP was not funtioning properly.

Can you explain why you think the presence of the heatsink indicates operator error?

Just for clarity, I don't have any investement in the outcome here other than enjoying puzzles. So I'm not trying to get into a heated debate, just trying to see where the evidence lies.

nihili

[tbirdkiri]

go to newegg.
fill out the online rma request.
also order some arctic silver 2 from em.

[13oots2]

Originally posted by Angry
YOu fried it, You should never use a thermal padwith Athlons, use thermal paste.
The thermal pad on my ThermoEngine out performed standard thermal paste, I actually regretted removing it. Saying that, Artic Silver certainly outperformed the pad

[robertm]

It could have and might very well have been a bad CPU.

I know that the chance that any one CPU is just bad is rather low this day in age.

It does happen but the chances of it going bad at first power on is very low as they are tested at the factory. More often they tend to fail some time later in life.

That being the case and the fact he had problems with the thermal pad placement. Would tend to make me thing it was operator error at some point in the operation.

But it didn't post and I do find that odd. I would have more questions to come to any final findings on this "puzzle" :)

Was the speaker plugged into the Motherboard? is the monitor a green monitor? Depending on these things I could see the CPU burning up before you seeing or hear anything from the system.

My real problem was it seemed people where telling him to RMA it for a new one before they got more information. Or I interpreted it that way.

From what I know I would try and RMA it. But if I was Newegg with just the information from the posts I would wonder if the CPU was really bad or was it operator error. But if I was newegg I would still send out a new CPU just because of customer relations and that fact it could have been a bad CPU.

Don't expect more from me am going to go play some games :)

Am not a trouble maker honest!

[abb1]

Just return it and say it just stopped working. They should still replace it. AMD is good with their chips when being returned. I fried mine because I forgot to plug in the cpu fan (OOPs!). I returned it to the store at which I bought it, and shortly thereafter I had a brand new one. Just return it. You should have no problem.
Abb

[Sir-Epix]

Originally posted by robertm
It could have and might very well have been a bad CPU.

I know that the chance that any one CPU is just bad is rather low this day in age.

It does happen but the chances of it going bad at first power on is very low as they are tested at the factory. More often they tend to fail some time later in life.

That being the case and the fact he had problems with the thermal pad placement. Would tend to make me thing it was operator error at some point in the operation.

But it didn't post and I do find that odd. I would have more questions to come to any final findings on this "puzzle" :)

Was the speaker plugged into the Motherboard? is the monitor a green monitor? Depending on these things I could see the CPU burning up before you seeing or hear anything from the system.

My real problem was it seemed people where telling him to RMA it for a new one before they got more information. Or I interpreted it that way.

From what I know I would try and RMA it. But if I was Newegg with just the information from the posts I would wonder if the CPU was really bad or was it operator error. But if I was newegg I would still send out a new CPU just because of customer relations and that fact it could have been a bad CPU.

Don't expect more from me am going to go play some games :)

Am not a trouble maker honest!

I would like to know how the chances are low. Are you implying that it is lower today? If you say that I would have to say your logic is flawed. In fact today your chances of a bad computer part today is greater. This is due to companies cutting corners. I have recieved some bad parts in my day, and most of them are recent. They just don't make things like they use to. As to this chip frying I would say that it is user based. He did not remove the plasic, which is why the chip fried I believe. With the melted plastic the heat was not able to disapate which caused it to fry. Now I am not saying you don't know what your doing with computers nutragous, but the fact is the new athlons are no Celeron CPU's. The Celeron's at least the older ones do not run hot at all, so some sloppiness will not hurt the chip. I really wish it was a bad CPU, but I do not believe it was.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by abb1
Just return it and say it just stopped working. They should still replace it. AMD is good with their chips when being returned. I fried mine because I forgot to plug in the cpu fan (OOPs!). I returned it to the store at which I bought it, and shortly thereafter I had a brand new one. Just return it. You should have no problem.
Abb

You shouldn't make a store pay for your forgetfulness. Returns are designed in case the reseller is at fault. If you don't honestly believe that you received a faulty CPU, it's the same as stealing from the vender. They really don't need that, especially with the current economic slump/depression.
If I did something stupid (not that I ever have:rolleyes: ), I would have to pay for it, not shift the burden to an innocent party.

[nihili]

From what I've heard, he got a faulty chip. Even if he did leave the plastic on, it should have posted. In fact even with the plastic on it should have booted. Unless you can point to an error that would have have fried the chip quicker than an Tbird with no heatsink, there's no reason to suppose this is operator error.

Did he make errors? You bet. Were those errors sufficient to fry the chip prior to posting? No way.

nihili

[Fliprock]

Sure a cpu can fry before POST beep...
I wouldn't have believed it before but I saw it happen to a 1500+ with my own eyes.

A buddy of mine had a retail chip and decided the stock hsf wasn't good enough. He got an sk6, installed it w/ asII, powered up, waited......

and nothing.... shortly after there was a bad stink coming the the proc....
on closer inspection the sk6 was installed a little bit crooked, but not enough--you would think--to fry the cpu before post.... but it did.

[Christoph]

Welcome to the forums, Fliprock.

[Akareyon]

My A1400 worked fine for several months with a standard HSF. Still the unusually high temps worried me, and sometimes the system crashed for no obvious reason, re-booted or didn't even start up. So I decided to install a new HSF (ThermalTake Copper Orb) -- bought one, put some grease on (Arctic Silver), mounted it, turned it on. And waited. The Orb noisily did his duty, the screen showed the graphic cards bootup message as usual (Hercules), but than it took longer than usual (3 or 4 seconds), the screen went black and finally went down to standby mode. No beep. Ooops. Bad smell. Black spot on the orb and the processor. No reboot possible. I think it's fried.

Rest in peace, my beloved, my first AMD. In nomine patri, filii et spiritu sancti. Amen.

Who can tell me what went wrong? The Orb was mounted correctly and tightly, no corners were chipped off.

::I have never, ever even thought of overclocking::
Worst luck: I noticed my L1 bridges seem to have been closed from the beginning on, so mabye I can't even prove aforementioned claim.

What can I do?