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Interested in First Water Cooling Build - Please Help!

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updawg

StarCraft II Fanatic
Joined
May 19, 2006
Location
NOVA
Hello Again, I’m looking to venture into water cooling after I order and build this rig in the coming weeks. I had some help earlier from a member and am looking for some more input and advice!

Here is my future setup:

Case: Antec P180B
Motherboard: DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 ULTRA-D
Processor: AMD Opteron 165
Video Card: eVGA e-GeForce 7900 GTX
Hard Drive: Western Digital Raptor 74GB (QT. 2)
Memory: OCZ 2GB Kit DDR500 PC4000 Platinum XTC
Power Supply: Enermax ELT620AWT Liberty 620W
Optical 1: LITE-ON Black DVD Burner With LightScribe
Optical 2: LITE-ON Black DVD-ROM

I want to construct a water cooling setup with little modifications to my case while keeping an internal setup. The case has a rear 120 mm fan and 2 x front 120 mm fans. I want this setup to be quiet and able to cool an overclocked opteron/gpu and remain with tolerant temperatures. I also don't want to spend more than $300, feel free to ask any questions to further help me with this build.

This was what was recommended to me:

cpu block(swiftech apogee):
http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-Apogee-Extreme-performance-CPU-water-block-pr-3175.html

gpu block: maze 4

pump(swiftech mcp655):
http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCP655-12-VDC-Pump-pr-2982.html

rad(Swiftech MCR Quiet Power Series)/(black ice x pro single):
http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR-Quiet-Power-Series-radiators-120mm-Black-pr-3070.html

or

http://jab-tech.com/Black-Ice-X-Flow-Pro-Single-120mm-Radiator-pr-3207.html

tubing:
http://jab-tech.com/Masterkleer-Tubing-7-16-ID-5-8-OD-pr-3079.html

fillport
http://jab-tech.com/Dangerden-Fillport-Black-pr-3051.html

What else do I need(include everything!) or what should I change in putting this together?

Will this fit in my setup?

Do I need two rads in cooling this setup?

This is my first build and plunge into water cooling and I’m willing to do the research to make this work! Please feel free to help and guide me in this build. This forum is packed with knowledgeable members and I look forward to hearing from you!

Thanks,
Mike
 
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go to danger den for all your parts. I would perfer that you get the Storm instead of th Apogee but to each his/her own.
Rad- get a BIX II or III only if you can fit it, the II works fine for me

Fans-must be 70CFM or more if you use BIX. If not get a PA120.2 instead

Tubing-Get Tygon tubing, the Masterkleer is cheap but will kink. I've seen so many people praise Masterkleer but when they show pics they have zip ties, worm/plastic/etc fastners on their tubes to keep them round as they bend. Don't waste your time. Sometimes a bargin is not a bargin
You will need at least 10' to play with if you are using GPU/CPU WB. Notice I said @ least 10'...hint hint. It's always good to have a spare tube lying around. Reason is that as the tube settles around the barb it has a tendency to expand. Once you remove the tube from the barb and place it back in you will notice how easy it is to slip it back into place. In some cases it will leak from this no matter how tight you apply the fastner. It's always good to leave some slack in your loop of at least 3"-6" so that all you have to do is cut off the portion that has expanded and insert the tube back into the barb.

Fill Port- Also get the res fill port from Danger Den. It's a big help

Fastners- you will need about 10 of them. The plastic are great and cheaper in some cases. But you have to push them from side to side to get them off.

Pump-655 and the D5 are the same pump using different names. So I have been told.

GPU WB- right on the money!

Installation of the Maze4
Here is what you need to do:
-you need to loosen all 4 blots and try to keep them all at the same height or simply remove them all and start over from stretch.
-if you start over from stretch you need to count the number of turns for the first bolt, then place the 2nd bolt diagnal the 1st bolt or crisscross. Then count the same number of turns you used for the first bolt. No more then 3-4 turns please!
-do the same for 3rd and 4th bolts.
-tighten the 1st 2 bolts )1st and 2nd) in a crisscross fashion with 3 or 4 turns ONLY
-tighten the 2nd set of bolts (3rd and 4th bolts) in a crisscross fashion with 3 or 4 turns ONLY
-now go back to the 1st bolt turn it another 3 or 4 times and do the same for the 2nd bolt.
-repeat this process with the 3rd and 4th bolt.
-DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN. YOU DON"T NEED TO TIGHTEN UNTIL YOU CAN'T TURN IT NO MORE...this is not directed at just you but anyone who needs to know.
-In all each bolt should have around 7-9 turns each. This is what I have counted but I used a x1900xtx and this number can vary. However you should only worry about tightening down the bolts when all 4 bolts are properly torqued. Then you can do 1 full turn of each of the 4 bolts until all have the same level of stress when you turn them. This is the best method. Unless there is a torque alan wrench you can buy?

Why do it this way? It IMO when you don't use springs on the screws themselves when tighting you tend to warp the card if you do not apply the same amount of pressure (aka turns on each screw). This is because you do not have the necessary slack when tighten down the WB and with each torque (turn) you are actually apply pressure on the VC with the WB. W/O those springs there is no way to relax that added pressure when you in fact tighten 1 screw moreso then another. This can create more pressure on the VC, warping (bending the card). All you need to do is place the card on it's axis (horizontal position) at eye level. Also, you will notice that its a bit more difficult to place it in your PCI slot and it will not line up properly. This also can cause you to not have contact on certain portions of the GPU while other portions have full contact.

The reason why I know is I have been there and learned from my experience when I tried to place the card back into the pci slot. Although it fit the middle portion of the card was higher then the other portion as it slide into the pci slot. I took it out and low and behold it was bent.
 
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Thanks for your quick responce and information, what a huge help. I'm extremly appreciatve!

So if I get a BIX2 will that be enough to cool a gpu/cpu?

What fans do you recommend for the rad?

Don't I need that special mount so it's spaced back from the rad?

Thanks again,
Mike
 
I would go with a dual fan minimum on the radiator for your setup.. if you are getting the black ice, might as well get the new GTS version... found at performance pcs, which is where I bought all my componants.. for the most part the prices weren't much different from danger den, sidewinder computers, or other places. (or go with the BIX 2 and a higher speed fan of 90+ cfm)

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=87

I just ordered a new water cooling setup and plan to cool an opteron 165 and geforce 7900gt with a Black Ice GTS 240 and probably 60ish CFM fans... Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F
 
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The GTS with X-flo? Any more information on fans would be helpful too! I want a quiet running setup, one of the main reasons I picked this case.

Thanks for the input,
Mike
 
the best place for fans is www.sidewindercomputers.com

Fans are a touch subject because some like me, don't mind noise while others get upset because they can hear dog whistle.
But 2 of these should fit your fancy. However, you may want to run them in a pull (pulling air from the rad fins) instead of push (pushing air into the rad fins) because of it's large diameter center creating a dead spot at close range.
link

Also note that the GTS series were intended for fans with less CFM.

Also note (as I forgot to tell you) it's better to get the rad with with holes at the top (where you screw the barbs) instead of an xflow design where you have 1 hole at the top and 1 at the bottom. Although the later will increase flow rate your D5 will handle it and the former is better at reducing heat...although minor.
 
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I don't know much about single pass (x-flow) vs. dual pass... from what I've read, there isn't a huge difference between them... the single pass might be better if you are running more then one radiator to improve flowrate, whereas the regular version may be better if you are just using one.... although I'd imagine it's not huge.
 
So will a single rad support this system? As long as I have a high cfm fan?

Should I get GTS or not?

Thanks,
Mike
 
Very informative! (thanks, added to favorites)
So this is my list of parts
CPU Water Block: Swiftech Apogee
GPU Water Block: Maze 4
Pump: MCP655
Fill Port:res fill port from Danger Den
Fastners:10 plastic fastners
Tubing: Tygon
Rad: BIXII (Do I need two? I have 1x rear 120mm 1x top 120mm fan mount)

What else do I need in purchasing this setup? Any and all help/input is welcome!

Thanks,
Mike
 
updawg said:
Very informative! (thanks, added to favorites)
So this is my list of parts
CPU Water Block: Swiftech Apogee
GPU Water Block: Maze 4
Pump: MCP655
Fill Port:res fill port from Danger Den
Fastners:10 plastic fastners
Tubing: Tygon
Rad: BIXII (Do I need two? I have 1x rear 120mm 1x top 120mm fan mount)

What else do I need in purchasing this setup? Any and all help/input is welcome!

Thanks,
Mike
10' of Tygon
2, 120mm Fans
1, 1/2" plastic T tube so you can create your T line. Although a Y tube would be better but that's more experimental then anything else.

Make sure you have your tubes, plastic T, Fill Port, rad and WBs all using 1/2" ID (Inner Diameter). I use 3/4' OD (outer diameter). This is pretty large but it doesn't kink when it bends.
 
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you might choose 7/16 ID tubing... this will make for a tighter more secure fit in 1/2 barbs... it often eliminates the need for clamping, though I still plan to clamp.
 
Alright I think I'm set! Within the next month I'll be posting pictures asking questions! Anyone have input on if I need two Rads?

Thanks,
Mike
 
here is a link that explains the difference between single pass and dual pass rads
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=100862

In a single-pass (cross-flow) radiator the water flows from the inlet at one end, once straight through all the tubes, in all the slices, and to the outlet in the diagonally opposite corner to the inlet.

In a dual-pass radiator the water flows down one half-side of all slices, U-turns, and back up the other half-side of all the slices.
Single-pass benefits because it presents all the tubes with the highest possible water temperature at once, whereas a two-pass radiator will only get the highest temperature inlet water on one side, and then cool slightly cooler water up the other side. This doesn't make a huge difference though. Generally it provides a 1-15% performance benefit from this effect alone.
 
Do I need to construct a shroud when mounting the fan?

Thanks for the link,
Mike
 
updawg said:
Do I need to construct a shroud when mounting the fan?

Thanks for the link,
Mike
No, they should come with one....however, you will need a drill to tap the hole a tad bit larger if you are using straight screws (machine screws for example) as the holes were intended for self taping screws. The holes for me are just a hair width smaller then the width of the screw (machine screws). So I normally use the phillips screw bit to tap a slightly larger diamater in the hole so I can get it to fit then use the drill to thread it down. This is a bit tricky so you are going have to use your own judgement on this. I don't suggest you re-drilling holes once your rad comes in. You have to place your screw and check it first.

Machines screws have a flat bottom (where thread is, not where you place drilll bit)
Self tapping screws have a point (where thread is, not where you place drill bit)

It would be better if you use your screws first in the hole before mounting the fans. Less fustration...trust me, been there. I got one in and couldn't get the others in, LOL... And, you have to be very careful not to screw it to fair down as the fins bend easily. This is why you need to screw them in the holes first before mounting your fans because you need to eyeball and count how many turns you have before you reach the fins.
 
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Also note that you will use Distalled water. Not tap water. Which can be had at any grocery store for less then a $1 (I hope) in your area. If you use any additives such as Water Wetter, water coloring, Anti Freeze, etc you pick one and only one. DO NOT MIX ADDITIVES for they have an adverse effect in your loop.
Examples are but not limited to:
-blockage of Water blocks
-corrison
-melt plastic (hehe, I put way too much Water Wetter in my loop...now I know where the "white stuff" is coming from...it was coming from my plastic T pipe that was melting do to the Water Wetter. When I removes the excuss white stuff from the pipe it was like butter in my hand.) I now only use 1-2 tablespoons of the stuff. I suggest you use this with any high performance additive.
-damage to your pump...remember that's made of plastic too.
 
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When you are ready to fill your loop using your 1 gallon jug of distalled water you will need to bleed your loop. Here is the best way to do it
-make sure there is water in your pump before you turn it on
-make sure there is water in your pump before you turn it on.
-read the first and second option...can't express that enough

Now for the other important aspects of bleeding
-you will not fill the entier loop, wbs, rads on the 1st try. Therefore you need to remove the tubes from the rad's barbs and fill water into your loop from both tubes. This will place water in your tube from the rad to your water blocks (hopefully all the way to your pump) and from the rad to the pump. Also try to raise the tube as high in the air as your can. This will force the water in the tube to move downward into parts of your loop allowing you to possibly add more water. Once you fill the tube with water use common sense, you don't want to fill it to the point that it will spill once you try to re-attach the tube back on the barbs of your rad. However this depends on your configuration. The one I illustrated is pump, GPU WB, CPU WB, RAD and back to pump again. Now fill the T portion of your loop with water and start her up.

Water leak testing and bleeding can be found here.. Scroll down to part 3, print this section and read carefully. This will explain how to start your pump up without having to turn on your computer. You will need to visit your local office max, stables, etc to get jumbo size paper clip...that is the size that fits your green and black wires.


attachment.php
<--this photos shows you how to "jump start" your PSU without having to run your computer. Remember UNPLUG YOUR POWER SUPPLY FROM THE WALL SOCKET WHEN YOU REACH THIS STAGE also turn the PSU off! Buy some of the electrical black tape and put it around the portion of the paperclip your fingers will grab hold to...usually the bent portion. Then insert it as instructed from the photo and link (green and black wires). Then lay it out of harms way and then plug the PSU to the wall socket then turn PSU on.

Bleeding process (the length of time it take to remove bubbles from your loop) is 5-7 hours. Remember when you are ready to boot up your PC you will need to turn off the PSU, unplug your psu from the wall socket, then remove the paperclip, attach it back on your computer. Plug the PSU back into the wall socket, turn the PSU on then turn your PC on.
 
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I would recommend a reservoir over a t-line for the greatly simplified filling/bleeding it provides.
You'll take no performance hit and the time spent bleeding can easily be reduced to minutes rather than days.
 
clocker2 said:
I would recommend a reservoir over a t-line for the greatly simplified filling/bleeding it provides.
You'll take no performance hit and the time spent bleeding can easily be reduced to minutes rather than days.


Make sure to get a high-quality res however. I've heard good about the thick-walled Danger Den bay-reserviors.
 
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