teflon tape needed with o rings?

stockwiz · May 27, 2006

Newbie question... if the threads on my system use o rings, is any sort of sealant like teflon tape needed? Everybody seems to have a different opinion on this one... some say tape and goop will actually hinder a good seal... some say to use it... well I don't want to lubricate the threads... I got them tight and as long as they are tight I'm assuming the o ring should do it's job.

Has anyone ever had an o ring leak? Everything I bought that was threaded had o rings.

citronym · May 27, 2006

I don't think teflon should ever be necessary with properly fitted O-rings. Make sure you tighten the barbs down nice and snug.

SiGfever · May 27, 2006

stockwiz said:
Newbie question... if the threads on my system use o rings, is any sort of sealant like teflon tape needed? Everybody seems to have a different opinion on this one... some say tape and goop will actually hinder a good seal... some say to use it... well I don't want to lubricate the threads... I got them tight and as long as they are tight I'm assuming the o ring should do it's job.

Has anyone ever had an o ring leak? Everything I bought that was threaded had o rings.

Be careful not to tighten too much! Most manufactures recommend hand snug and then 1/4 to 1/2 turn more with a wrench. IIRR

voigts · May 27, 2006

It is correct that if other things get inbetween the o-ring and the surface it can cause a leak. You don't need teflon tape or anything else.

stockwiz · May 27, 2006

well it's all installed without any other modifications, no leaks now or signs of moisture 4 hours into testing.

MarkS · May 27, 2006

I would personally trust tape over o-rings any day. O-rings seal real nice, but degrade over time. As long as you do not remove and reinsert the fitting, you should never see a problem with tape. Even that's not a problem as long as you remove and retape the fitting. Tape is required in all plumbing codes for water and gas threaded fittings and it's rated for pressures we will never see in our set ups. It's also inert, so it will not react with coolants and has a better cold resistance that most rubbers used in o-rings.

I guess what ever works for you though.

citronym · May 27, 2006

MarkS, tape works wonderful on fittings designed to use it. However, O-ring fittings were designed specifically so that tape isn't needed.

Spade · May 27, 2006

silicone is also inert. (well ok barring contact with anything petroluem based)
i agree and you are right that o-rings do rot/degrade over time.
HOWEVER this is NOT plumbing. this is NOT direct thread contact, but flat surface contact, that he is talking about.

my two cents says cheapo wal mart/target/lowes/orchards silicone tube for $1.00 + either OVER or without the o-ring. i ASSUME
(i maybe wrong , tell me if so)
that you're wanting to seal the plexiglass or metal top to the bottom of a
waterblock, and that the threads are really already taken care of..

again im just guessing because theres not enough info to go on yet.
gl in any case
cheers

MarkS · May 27, 2006

Spade said:
HOWEVER this is NOT plumbing. this is NOT direct thread contact, but flat surface contact, that he is talking about.

Understood. However, the threads are between the coolant and the flat surface. It makes sense to seal the threads, if for no other reason than there is more surface area. If you seal the threads and use an o-ring, even better. However, if you only use an o-ring, you have <= 1/16" of rubber between your CPU/GPU and coolant. This, it would seem, can only increase the chances of a disaster.

Spade said:
wo cents says cheapo wal mart/target/lowes/orchards silicone tube for $1.00 + either OVER or without the o-ring. i ASSUME
(i maybe wrong , tell me if so)
that you're wanting to seal the plexiglass or metal top to the bottom of a
waterblock, and that the threads are really already taken care of..

This would also work, so long as the waterblock top is metal. Silicone sticks to acrylic and most plastics very poorly. The coolant pressure will eventually blow out the silicone in a plastic topped waterblock.

Just my thoughts. Not trying to start a fight.

BokiOverclocker · May 27, 2006

i work for larger company and we use both.
here is bottom line

it's not o-ring or teflon tape or any other seal threat solution problem, IT'S THE INSTALLER!!!

yes most problems that i saw so far is that people don't know how to install a lot of items. o-ring is very easy to damage( not i correct position when made tide, over torque the connection, added lubricant between surface) etc.

T-tape( too much of it, not enough of it, reused same tape again) etc.

Liquid sealant( too much/not enough, used on wrong materials, wrong type of sealant) etc

as you can see it's easy to screw up we all do/did etc.

in general use what you feel that you can trust your self to work with, T-tape is most used since is cheap, not hard to work with, easy to replace.

other solution work fine too again it's up to you.

If you need more info on any of the products how to apply let me(us) know i post little guide for you.

have fun
~B

RangerXLT8 · May 27, 2006

I used teflon tape on my radiator barbs one time, a piece of the tape somehow got into my loop and was seriously restricting flow because it became caught in the accelerator nozzel of my TDX block.. Since then I trust the O-rings and have not had any problems.

stockwiz · May 27, 2006

like I said, lots of different opinions on this topic. Keep them coming.. I'll use all the information I can get in future modifications made to the setup.

I can see the rationale behind using the tape... the larger surface area being sealed vs. a small area being counted on that may corrode over time.

My question would be, has anybody relied on just o rings and had any problems over time, and has anybody had tape fail over time?

For me, removing the tubing is a pain, as it's 7/16 on 1/2 inch barbs, so it's on TIGHT. When I do decide to do some maintainance down the road, I'll probably tear it all down to check everything out. Ideally it would be nice to never have to tear it down, and to just have things work perfectly forever.

But if I wanted that I would have stuck with air.

BokiOverclocker · May 27, 2006

since you already installed your set up and have zero leak i would just leave at that. you still need to check from time to time make sure everything is the way it should be, schedule yourself regular weekly quick peek maintenance and you should be ok. if you so far have good feeling about o-ring just stick with it. like i posted before once is installed and it's holding you should be ok. you have only one thing to remember nothing last for ever.
FYI most manufactures recommending not to reuse o-ring. Reason behind is after you torque your connections o-ring will do his part ( fill in/seal) and after some time will loos his shape and main function ( to seal) so if you are taking your system apart in next few months that is ok but if system is running longer than that i would put new o-ring. other than i belive you are good to go my friend.
~B

Enablingwolf · May 27, 2006

O-rings are designed as a seal. You should not need any other solutions using them. If you still have leaks using them you need to adjust how you are using them. Orings are good for long term since they are easy to replace and are easy to reapply if they fail. Tape can be an easy fix, but most plumbing products use Orings for reliability. Plus if you have to break a seal you can easily see if the seal is faliing or not by just looking at the seal. In some cases reuse the seal.

Tape is much harder to detect if that is an issue with application. It does not deform as visually as an Oring. That in itself helps knowing in the long term what is going on with your plumbing parts.

I would not use teflon tape with higher pressure parts anyways. If something is under constant pressure I would trust a hard seal anyday over any simple tape seal.

The only better seals in plumbing are solder, compression and dope. Depending on application.

BokiOverclocker · May 27, 2006

Enablingwolf said:
I would not use teflon tape with higher pressure parts anyways. If something is under constant pressure I would trust a hard seal anyday over any simple tape seal.

The only better seals in plumbing are solder, compression and dope. Depending on application.

I would agree 100% with you on this one Enablingwolf

Spade · May 27, 2006

i don't. in either case there is no visual way to confirm it.
and SINCE we ARE speaking of threads, i say tape. teflon tape.
i've worked on cars, and seen many o rings fail..
granted teflon tape is only really ever used on maybe waterblock/manifold
connections but ive NEVER seen that fail IF applied properly.

originally, i was just speaking of metal to metal contact , not the threads.
personally? i like teflon tape. just follow the manufacturers directions on how many winds/wraps/ and what torque (if you have a torque wrnech)
and you are gtg!

Enablingwolf · May 27, 2006

I have never seen instructions on a roll of teflon tape.

Usually it is used in the field when you want to get in and get out. A hard seal is the best if you can get one. It will never fail. If you get threads that cut as they go in you only need the pipe dope(lube) to get the threads to cut the seal.

With water cooling, you have so many options it is hard to say what will work. Cars and kitchen sinks are two different things. As is a Computer agianst the two.

Me bieng an ex-plumber(lisenced) and have maintained heavy equipment. I perfer hard seals. They will never fail, unless you do something crazy to it. Or exert it beyond specs of the material used.

For a low flow setup teflon will work as an easy way of cheaply keeping materials on hand. One drawback of tape. One slight bend (jarring) of a part and it might fail. Tape is called a soft seal for a reason.

Depending on your needs and desires. I perfer reliability over a very long period on my parts. If at all I try and use hard seals. Parts I need to take apart alot I will use cheaper soft seal means.

BokiOverclocker · May 27, 2006

i still belive that tool is only good as the person using the tool.

what i'm trying to say any set up can work or not as long you know how to use it.

the quality of the material is huge difference too. I remember i got once cheap roll of t-tape and that was basically JUNK you couldn't do a damn thing with it, was ruff not stretching etc. after that i went and good good stuff and work just like a charm. same with o-ring i had some of them and hydraulic oil just EAT it up and oil was going everywhere. So IMPO quality of material makes difference.

~B

Enablingwolf · May 27, 2006

Yay! Someone who knows 3 cents makes a big differance. To bad most bosses don't :shrug:

stockwiz · May 27, 2006

I would agree strongly with the notion that most problems, computing or otherwise, tend to be from user error or impatience as well.

I'd love to see them make the higher quality waterblocks with the barb/outlet hardwired into the devices. Make people fit the tubing onto a 1/2 inch output diameter and don't give them the option of anything else, or make different sizes but of course this would cost them more.

If there were never threads to worry about in the first place, it would eliminate the vast majority of any potential problems. (at least for me as the 7/16 inch ID tubing will never leak on the half inch barbs.. getting them off is a major chore)

I have one question... is it better to apply vasoline to an o ring and does it really increase the life before it cracks, or will it simply lead to leakage and problems? This is another thing I've read about...

teflon tape needed with o rings?

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