New benchmark at tomshardware, Radean 8500 beats ti500

[boonmar]

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q4/011107/index.html

[Violator]

In some tests yes, some no, same old story.

[The Overclocker]

it is no big secret, but the ti200 is alot better then the 7500

[jbell]

Originally posted by Violator
In some tests yes, some no, same old story.


That will never change

[Cisco Kid]

Well I think the whole re-review of the 8500 shows it in a much better light. I think with the next driver update it will be apparent that the 8500 is a faster card than the Ti500 and a better bang for your buck.

If it can perform the way it does now with lousy drivers what will it do with a good set of drivers, I guess it will kick the snot out of a Ti500, hehehehe . Sure this will get some feedback LOL all in fun my friends

Viva ATI

Cisco Kid:)

[boonmar]

ATI will be releasing new Radeon driver today.

[funnyperson1]

they already have, go and dl it, and actually looking at Anandtech, the 8500 didnt really beat the Ti500 but the performance for the price is really amazing...

[Yodums]

Eventually if they didn't have no driver issues.. That thing would cook it for dinner!

[Über~PhLuBB]

Notice 2 things. Firstly, Tom's Hardware used DirectX 8.0a (pre-release of DX8.0) for the nVidia cards, whereas they used the newer (and faster) DirectX 8.1 with the ATI cards.

Interesting, eh?

Secondly, the ATI cards defult clocks are higher by ~5-7% on the core, as well as 10% on the RAM. (The RAMDAC is also 10% higher in the 8500)

Even more interesting, eh?

What's that mean? It means that if the nVidia cards were run using DirectX 8.1, and were at the same clock frequencies (Which is not hard, a modest O/C like that would not require any additional cooling), they would PULVERIZE the ATI cards, not just win in some tests, not in others.

Like I've been saying, nVidia has been and will be superior. Guess what? The NV25 is right around the corner! See ya, ATI!

[Kingslayer]

Yet again, more proof to my point that Tom is a moron.

[Maximus Nickus]

Tom's Hardware is BIASED, he obviously loves INTEL and ATI, remember the thermal destruction of cpus without a hsf....:mad:

[funnyperson1]

yeah, but read the review at Anandtech and hothardware...the 8500 pulverizes anything in its price range.....the Smoothvision looks amazing.....also the clock spped was higher because ATI comes with them higher......lets see were comapring a voodoo 3 and a voodoo4, well the four is clocked higherm, so why dont we oc the voodoo3 tomake it perform the smae...that makes no sense....

[TRANCER24]

Ahhhh im happy with Nvidia i love updating my drivers. Nvidia came out with 5 new drivers before ATI could even come out with one LOL. and for 139 how could you beat 64 megs of 4.0 ns RAM on a card. :)

[Ritteri&Bubbles]

Nick: First off Tom is biased, but you dont have a clue as to HOW he is biased. If he loved INTEL so much, then why do the Athlon processors always beat the Intel counterparts on his reviews???If your going to bring up a point, please back it up with proof. THe HSF test doesnt really prove a thing IMO.

As for the Ti500 and 8500, I love how Nvidia has a million drivers to choose from, but ATI just put out a rock solid driver finally for the 8500, should check out my test scores with all default settings NO OVERCLOCKING, its pretty damn impressive, and something NO NVIDIA card can compete with yet. Time for Nvidia probably to unload the "Detonator" drivers and use "Nuclear" drivers instead. Because running all the benchmark tests with ATI's new 3286 drivers shows what its true colors may actually be. And get this, with the new drivers it actually scores just as good if not better at 1280x1024 than the basic 1024x768 res. The Ti starts to take a nosedive at the higher resolutions where the Ati pulls ahead now. How would I know?? I own and sell both cards. But the thing that I am happy with is some stability issues are finally being adressed by ATI, this was my big gripe all along.

[Maximus Nickus]

Originally posted by Ritteri&Bubbles
Nick: First off Tom is biased, but you dont have a clue as to HOW he is biased. If he loved INTEL so much, then why do the Athlon processors always beat the Intel counterparts on his reviews???If your going to bring up a point, please back it up with proof. THe HSF test doesnt really prove a thing IMO.

As for the Ti500 and 8500, I love how Nvidia has a million drivers to choose from, but ATI just put out a rock solid driver finally for the 8500, should check out my test scores with all default settings NO OVERCLOCKING, its pretty damn impressive, and something NO NVIDIA card can compete with yet. Time for Nvidia probably to unload the "Detonator" drivers and use "Nuclear" drivers instead. Because running all the benchmark tests with ATI's new 3286 drivers shows what its true colors may actually be. And get this, with the new drivers it actually scores just as good if not better at 1280x1024 than the basic 1024x768 res. The Ti starts to take a nosedive at the higher resolutions where the Ati pulls ahead now. How would I know?? I own and sell both cards. But the thing that I am happy with is some stability issues are finally being adressed by ATI, this was my big gripe all along.

Oh ha, and just hows the image quality hu? If u look closely the image quality gets worse firther away to improve speed and ati optimzed the drivers a bit more, as for stability well everyone has had problems. Sure AMD have won all the benchmarks but its hardly suprising is it? AND HE OBVIOUSLY DOES LIKE INTEL AND TRIED TO PUT IN A GOOD WORD WHEN HE DID THE HSF TEST, and amd hitting 600C in 3seconds? HA HA b***s***. my mate took the hsf of his for 15secs and yeah it smelt but it never hit that temp, i put my finger on it so i know.
P.S. Before you say why the f*** he did it well, he's an idiot.
So YOU GET YOUR FACTS right.:burn:

[o770]

i take no side yet actually but i cant really like of the ATI driver optimization history. id hate if i had one 8500 and should use that last one to get some improvement on performance. my personal taste will always trade performance for image quality.
its clear to everyone how ATI has tweaked things to outperform itself (and Ti500 - "we must get it!" ATI) only in the most popular benchmark softwares: a weak strategy i guess, to decrease img quality in order to get the expected performance improvement - just because img quality was ATI's most notorious video cards feature.
it was published sometime ago the visual effects of the LOD biasing modification ATI has made in the driver and its simply sad seeing the samples - even more when compared to the Ti500 which is just as anyother one. also smoothvision anti-aliasing was disabled...
anyway they got it, at least partial and when the system kicks not out to the desktop when running the 3d applications.

no news the drivers gonna still improve - so Ti500's will (and i bet this one faster): if i had the money to buy one 8500 right now id wait sometime to get the Ti500 later.

[Kingslayer]

Tom really isnt biased. He's just an idiot.

He continues to do uneven becnchmarks. He did it when he first did the 8500 vs. GF3. He's not pro ATI, he's not pro GF3. He just doesnt have a clue. He continues to do tests with old software. He did a benchmark on a game using DX7 on his first test almost a month ago. Neither one of these cards are optomized for DX7.

However, saying that these cards arent the same because of clock speed is wrong. The are the same class card. They are both 64Meg DDR video cards that support the latest and greatest. Regardless of clock speeds. You can easily compare them the same way. Look at automobile adds. A car company will say "most horsepower in its class". Well, yes, but it's because you put the biggest engine in it. But it's still in the same class regardless of engine size. There are more things to put that car in it's regarded class than engine displacement. You also have to look at weight, wheelbase, and cockpit room. You also need to look at more than just clock speed and damn numbers when you look at a video card comparison.

We have a big write up about it on our front page. Go look at it. Stop relying on FPS. And stop relying on numbers given by a reviewer that IMHO shouldnt be doing reviews.

As for the CPU video. I have no doubt that he did a legitimate test. But he used a motherboard that gives slow readings on it's temp diode. You could argue that this is bias, or argue that it's not, but the root of the matter is that using that board period was a stupid thing to do. I have seen AMD's smoke themselves in 3 seconds. They do it. And they will do it on motherboards that report temps slow, or dont support the new onboard AMD thermal diode.

And ATI has put out more than 1 driver. The 8500 has been a go for a month and they have released 4 drivers. You all might have missed the one they posted and took down less than 3 minutes later, but I caught it.

I love this actually. I see it as ATI thumbing their noses at people and I think it is 100% warranted.

People wanted numbers like nVidia gives. ATI gave them numbers. Then everyone cried because they were doing it by dropping graphic quality.

People wanted drivers every 5 minutes like nVidia gives. ATI gave them drivers. Then everyone cried because they didn't work right.

If people started crying to nVidia for the image quality of the Radeon, VIVO, and the worlds leading DVD playback, all on the same card. They will get it. But then they will cry because the GF line is now slow in the FPS and the drivers suck...just like ATI.

ATI has done nothing but give people the brainwashed requests they ask for.

Dont cry foul, when you ask me for things I cant do, then achieve them by any means possible.

Now how the heck did you people allow me to turn this from Tom is a moron to ATI rules.....

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by oTTO
i take no side yet actually but i cant really like of the ATI driver optimization history. id hate if i had one 8500 and should use that last one to get some improvement on performance. my personal taste will always trade performance for image quality.
its clear to everyone how ATI has tweaked things to outperform itself (and Ti500 - "we must get it!" ATI) only in the most popular benchmark softwares: a weak strategy i guess, to decrease img quality in order to get the expected performance improvement - just because img quality was ATI's most notorious video cards feature.
it was published sometime ago the visual effects of the LOD biasing modification ATI has made in the driver and its simply sad seeing the samples - even more when compared to the Ti500 which is just as anyother one. also smoothvision anti-aliasing was disabled...
anyway they got it, at least partial and when the system kicks not out to the desktop when running the 3d applications.

no news the drivers gonna still improve - so Ti500's will (and i bet this one faster): if i had the money to buy one 8500 right now id wait sometime to get the Ti500 later.


actually if you read the most recent review by anandtech, performance mode on an ATI is not much worse than the quality mode on a geforce3, and the image quality in quality mode on 8500 was crushing that of the geforce3 in high quality mode, the zoom in looked like a game normally looks on my geforce2 at 1024x768 without zooming 10 times into a small corner of the screen, it truly was beautiful...

[Maximus Nickus]

I take back what I said about Ati there new drivers enable smoothvision and are really fast (some times beat the ti500!!!!!) and things can only get faster!!! So i've bought one!

[thestramel]

Just got an 8500 the other day. Just for kicks I used the shipping drivers to run 3dmark2001 and some other games. No wonder everyone was disappointed. I noticed many draw errors in the Max Payne and Dragothic benchmarks (as well as some games). Stock score was 7520. Once I switched to the 7206 drivers no more draw errors and my score was increased to 7890. Not bad at all. Plus smoothvision now works. Games really look nice even just using 2x AA. I'm really pleased with this card so far. I know 7890 is not a mindblowing score but considering my Radeon 64mb vivo scored @3700 it definitely feels like one hell of an upgrade. Also, I can play at higher resolutions in some of my older games like Madden 2k1 which refused to cooperate at 32bit and 1024x768 on the Radeon vivo (flashing objects and all that good stuff). I haven't really noticed any problems with quality in UT. I'm not sure about the speed since I haven't benchmarked it.

[funnyperson1]

the problem with UT is the speed, anadtech said it had like 65fps which is completely playable, but it should be getting closer to 200....

[Warlord2]

lol this thread should be in the debate section:D

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by thestramel
Just got an 8500 the other day. Just for kicks I used the shipping drivers to run 3dmark2001 and some other games. No wonder everyone was disappointed. I noticed many draw errors in the Max Payne and Dragothic benchmarks (as well as some games). Stock score was 7520. Once I switched to the 7206 drivers no more draw errors and my score was increased to 7890. Not bad at all. Plus smoothvision now works. Games really look nice even just using 2x AA. I'm really pleased with this card so far. I know 7890 is not a mindblowing score but considering my Radeon 64mb vivo scored @3700 it definitely feels like one hell of an upgrade. Also, I can play at higher resolutions in some of my older games like Madden 2k1 which refused to cooperate at 32bit and 1024x768 on the Radeon vivo (flashing objects and all that good stuff). I haven't really noticed any problems with quality in UT. I'm not sure about the speed since I haven't benchmarked it.


I am surprised your Radeon 64 DDR vivo did not perform for you. I have the same card check my sig out and I can play all the new games pretty well flawlessly at 1024x768 32 bit, like Madden 2K1, Max Payne, Quake3 and UT.

The card overclocks well and after I add my lapped blue orb and ramsinks on I am sure it will do 250/500 cause I am at 234/468 stock cooling no prtobs and scoring 4143 in 3Dmark2K1


But glad to hear you like your Radeon 8500, gonna get me one when prices drop further.

Cisco Kid:beer:

[Maximus Nickus]

You live in the US they can't get any cheaper! If I found a US vendor that ships to UK I could save $100!!!!

[Ritteri&Bubbles]

I may be a bit behind on this thread, but on the 3286 drivers the "FPS optimizations" have been eliminated.

[Angry]

Man, the Radeon 8500 is looking better and better...
I mean I LOVE my ATI Radeon 7200 ( its the Radeon SDR how it got that name i dont know but thats what the Drivers call it..err Windows does.)
Yeah sure my card is almost the bottom line for performance...but hey with a fairly fast cpu it gets the job more than done...
I may be building just 2 systems this christmas so I can afford a 8500 :D :burn:

[thestramel]

Originally posted by Cisco Kid



I am surprised your Radeon 64 DDR vivo did not perform for you. I have the same card check my sig out and I can play all the new games pretty well flawlessly at 1024x768 32 bit, like Madden 2K1, Max Payne, Quake3 and UT.


I didn't have any problems playing UT with the Radeon 64 DDR vivo just in Madden 2k1. Strange I know. The 3700 score was obtained with the memory/GPU at 183/183 and no windows tweaks such as adjusting virtual memory or modifying config.sys/msdos.sys files.

[Samzik]

i wana irritate u hehee i have gf 256 sdr (p3 733) no oc and im happy with it has all the power i needed so far so ... why i rush 2 spend mo money :D :burn:

[Maximus Nickus]

Out of interrest which is the latest driver ATi released? I thought it was something like the 3286 that enabled smoothvision and was really fast...oh well, anyone know a good oc'ing prog I can use? What sort of oc i will be able to get with stock cooling and a card blower underneath? ...and above....., behind ......
you get the picture! lol:D

[funnyperson1]

3286s are newest for XP and use Radeon Tweaker or Powerstrip or Rage3d tweaker for ocing, from results ive seen you should get to about 300/615 with stock cooling....i dunno witht eh added....

[lee]

ATI vs. nVidia - nvidia has the drivers and has always understood that a superior card has good drivers, not necessarily the top hardware and that is why they are on top today.........good cards & top drivers beat top cards w/so-so drivers any day.............

[Maximus Nickus]

Stock cooling!!! It doesn't even have ram sinks!!!!!:burn: