Budget WC upgrade, two small questions

[[Corporal Dan]]

Hey,

Before I get trashed, I have searched but have found only the most general answers, most of them based in opinion/speculation.

I currently have the following

Chevette heater core
120mm fan
Via 1300 pump
Maze4 cpu/Maze3 gpu blocks
Custom reservoir
All 1/2 inch tubing

I learned a lot in building this system, and it works "OK". Idle between 41 and 45, depending on ambient. This is better than air cooling, but not by much

Maintenance is a nightmare, and case is super cramped because the tubing (clearflex) is bulky, and the placement is bad

Here are my ideas:

1) Replace Maze4 CPU block with a WhiteWater block
2) Convert system to 3/8"
3) Eliminate reservoir, use t-line

I expect the whitewater to help quite abit, and the much easier to route and shorter length of 3/8 tubing to lower overall case temps and simplify maintenance significantly.

Can anyone comment and/or recommend a course of action?

Will 3/8 significantly compromise performance? Will the whitewater block make a difference?

Is the 3/8" performance drop more significant than the gain in ease of maintenance, and routing neatness?

Thanks in advance

Thanks!

[citronym]

']Will 3/8 significantly compromise performance?
I don't think it would make a very big difference.

']Will the whitewater block make a difference?
Again, I wouldn't expect a very big difference.

']Is the 3/8" performance drop more significant than the gain in ease of maintenance, and routing neatness?
This is subjective, hard to say what you would consider 'ease of maintenance'.

Not that using 3/8 would be a bad thing, but have you considered using 7/16 over 1/2 barbs (unless thats what you already have).

I'd like to see a pic of your loop, if you haven't already posted one somewhere. I'm running a maze3 gpu too, and I find the second barb placement difficult to work with.

[[Corporal Dan]]

I will post one tinight. It is atrocious. Ease of maintenance meaning It takes 2-3 hours of careful to drain, clean, and refill coolant.

[Arca_ex]

getting a new waterblock on the CPU wont help you out that much, the stuff that really gets your temps down are radiators/fans and maybe pumps

[NoodleHead]

check out the interactive water block test results here:

http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=131

select the maze4 and the lil river whitewater. i usually use this a guide as an estimate for different blocks. I still say the whitewater is great block, only setback is that its a 3 barb design, so that could make routing alil more difficult when going from cpu to gpu...

[pwnt by pat]

Expect a decent drop switching to WW. Use 7/16id tubing from mcmaster. It has the flexibility of 3/8 and low resistance of 1/2. Best of both worlds. Cheap too... The pump will be the limiting factor afterwards.

[[Corporal Dan]]

OK, removed front panel, seems to have really helped, musta been killing airflow.

Now idles at 40-41 after extended periods, unknown load temps, been too busy to really play any games or whatnot.

If 3/8 is not a big drop, why does everyone always use 1/2?

7/16 - will this stretch properly over the barbs, or will it lead to eventual failure os the tubing??!

[pwnt by pat]

1/2 can flow a LOT more than 3/8. That's why most people use it.

Yeah, 7/16 can stretch without ANY problems whatsoever.. I found my old pics. This entire system is 7/16:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v398/pwntbypat/ocforums/?sc=3

[Sentential]

Personally the problem here is your pump and not the blocks. Id try upgrading that first

[[Corporal Dan]]

How so?

Flowrate seems pretty high

[pwnt by pat]

'Because it's a cheap pump. It works well, but it's not a stellar design.

It's pressure that matters, not flow rate.

[[Corporal Dan]]

Can you elaborate?

Pressure is a state of a fluid and as far as I have been able to determine, not a significant parameter in heat transfer. I think that to a certain extent, flowrate also is unimportant..... the higher the flowrate through a given system, the higher the velocity, which will lead to more viscous losses and require a more powerful pump to maintain.

And as far as I can tell, both these blocks are of a pretty simple design.

[pwnt by pat]

A higher pressure pump can overcome the resistance of a loop more easily than a low pressure pump. The resistance of the tubing and components force the pump to operate at a lower level of efficiency. Pumps have a "head" rating, which is what we can use to gauge the amount of pressure the pump generates.

flow rate is important because more molucles come in contact with the transfer medium. The universal analogy:
you have a hot pan on a stove. You want to cool it off. Do you pour water slowly or quickly to try and cool it down?

Every loop is in equilibrium. There is a ballance of flow rate, pump efficiency, and resistance. IF you increase resistance, you have to either increase the flow rate or head level of the pump to maintain the current rate of flow.


The main difference between the blocks is that the WW creates a "jet" above the die of the processor. This is where the majority of the cooling in the block takes place. The channels are just to aid in any heat that spreads out across the surface of the block. The maze design just has water flowing in a channel over the processor. The velocity of the water is decreased because of the different passages.

Each design actually has their merits. The WW will be better for non-ihs cooling because of the focused area of cooling. The Maze (should) be better for ihs processors because it's more effective at cooling a large area.

[fhpchris]

Pressure does not matter, Head and flow rate matter.

The problem with smal pumps with low heads, is that the flow rate is trash with decent restriction...

Pressure itself is useless :)

[[Corporal Dan]]

I thought that because the rate of heat extraction (radiator) is the same, then a high or low flowrate will come out to the same thing....

So you think the pump isn't up to the task?

[citronym]

Pressure does not matter, Head and flow rate matter.

The problem with smal pumps with low heads, is that the flow rate is trash with decent restriction...

Pressure itself is useless :)
We're using head and pressure interchangably here.

I don't think its that the pump isn't up to the challenge, as much as its just that there is room for improvement.