20 reasons why vista sux.

[sno.lcn]

More vista crap?! Oh god!
lol I just came across this article:
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBasic&articleId=9000829

[hafa]

Most of the author's comment's are merely peeves. Overall, he actually seems to like the OS quite a bit:

"Despite these seeming faux pas, Microsoft has also managed to add a good deal of benefit and improvement in Windows Vista -- enough good things that it may be even easier to collect 20 things you'll like about Windows Vista."

Many of the items addressed are being dealt with (it IS beta, after all):

"18. User Account Controls $#^%!~\!!!."

“...On May 23, Austin Wilson, director for the Windows client, promised that Microsoft will be refining UAC protections to eliminate the number of pop-up boxes Vista will, ah, throw up. He promised that the Release Candidate 1 version of Vista would show improvement in this area.”

Some of the issues are left-overs from XP:

"16. No way to access the Administrator account in Vista Beta 2."

The only way in XP is to boot in safe mode unless you create another account with admin privelages. I don’t see a lot of difference here.

Overall, I come away from reading the article with the feeling that Vista will have significant improvements over XP with some irritating changes that we'll figure out work arounds for. No big surprises here...

[roYal]

Ummmmm.... He didn't say it sucks, he said 20 things you may not like. Change is good but people don't like change. That doesn't mean change sux.

18. User Account Controls $#^%!~\!!!.

It was testing and Microsoft understood that it's annoying and they said they're constantly modifying it to find the balance between having a secure environement while not being a pain.

16. No way to access the Administrator account in Vista Beta 2.

This is because they want all beta testers to be able to test UAC and give good feedback. This is a beta, they need to test UAC as it is important, hence the reason for this. Things change all the time in beta, maybe this guy can't handle beta testing.

15. Some first-blush networking peeves.

He's just saying it'll take some time getting used to.


9. Windows Defender Beta 2 is buggy.

It's in beta, of course it has bugs.


4. Installation takes forever.

Windows vista is currently in optimization stages where they are tweaking things to make installation faster as well as other things. Also, Vista is currently compiled in debugging mode.


3. Version control.

I agree, all the versions thing is completely retarded and will cause consumer and business market confusion.

[Seinken]

When I read it, it seemed the author was really Mac OSX biased... I don't even know why I got that feeling.

[sno.lcn]

When I read it, it seemed the author was really Mac OSX biased... I don't even know why I got that feeling.
I agree, it does seem that way.
Ummmmm.... He didn't say it sucks, he said 20 things you may not like. Change is good but people don't like change. That doesn't mean change sux.

Most of the author's comment's are merely peeves. Overall, he actually seems to like the OS quite a bit:



I know guys, but I just saw another chance to slam vista so I took it!

[EvoFreak]

9. Windows Defender Beta 2 is buggy.


Since when windows isn't buggy.

[Naked_07]

The general "feel" of the OS seems to be more complicated than ever. Just the opposite of every previous Microsoft OS. I had high hopes for Vista at one point but, it just turned into a pitiful joke of an operating system. I don't recall any previous version of Windows that was widley successful and superior to it's predecessor that required 6 years to build and still came out a failure. Seems like those days are gone for Microsoft.

[Captain Newbie]

The general "feel" of the OS seems to be more complicated than ever. Just the opposite of every previous Microsoft OS. I had high hopes for Vista at one point but, it just turned into a pitiful joke of an operating system. I don't recall any previous version of Windows that was widley successful and superior to it's predecessor that required 6 years to build and still came out a failure. Seems like those days are gone for Microsoft.
The whole division is being mismanaged. They seem to lack a goal or target. They're wondering aimlesslsy and don't really know what should and should not be in Vista at this point.

With regards to the VRAM question: Apple is doing far more with less VRAM. A Mac mini with 32MB of VRAM can run OS X with most of the visual goodness turned on and my PowerBook G4 with 64MB does just fine with everything turned on (although I turn most eye candy OFF for reasons too numerous and obvious to enumerate here).

With regards to user access controls: No comment.

With regards to secure desktop with UAC: Good idea, Apple will be sure to implement that in 10.whatever's-next :) and will have it released before Vista. But seriously, more visual cues to get your attention are a good idea.

With regards to price: I don't want to pay $349 for Super-Ultimate-Duper-OMG-Edition.

With regards to little originality: duh. :)

[veryhumid]

this is a silly thing:

Vista's multiple-layer network stack looks more complex than previous versions of Windows, and complex generally isn't good.

[PWatterson]

The general "feel" of the OS seems to be more complicated than ever. Just the opposite of every previous Microsoft OS. I had high hopes for Vista at one point but, it just turned into a pitiful joke of an operating system. I don't recall any previous version of Windows that was widley successful and superior to it's predecessor that required 6 years to build and still came out a failure. Seems like those days are gone for Microsoft.

Agreed. Long live XP!

Everything in Vista seems so complicated. :confused:

[Captain Newbie]

this is a silly thing:
Yep. Airplane rules, if you will, easily apply to other designs:
1) If you don't need it TAKE IT OUT
2) Keep it SIMPLE, STUPID!

[Vampiregabe]

LOL.


One more reason to stay with XP 64-bit.

i.e. the forgotten perfect Microsoft red-headed step-child.

:santa:

[NsOmNiA91130]

Agreed. Long live XP!

Everything in Vista seems so complicated. :confused:
That's what everyone said when XP came out and everyone was using 2k.

[roYal]

That's what everyone said when XP came out and everyone was using 2k.

Lol, I was just about to post this but saw you did. Literally everyone was anti-xp when xp was nearing release. Now, everyone uses XP and is anti-Vista. In 4-5 years everyone will be using Vista and will be anti-next os after Vista. It's just the way it works. Many people are just too afraid of change so they try to find negative things about stuff to give them excuses as to why they don't want to change.

[Oroka Sempai]

I loved XP leading upto the release and after... but I am getting the feeling one would get in the lot of a car dealership. You spend most of your time looking at the 2006 Mustang, then go buy a used mini van. I like the look of the Mustang, it would be cool to own and drive, but I need a van to drive my kids around and I dont want to blow all my money on it.

Vista will have to be alot cheaper right now before I buy it, in the mean time, I will keep learning the ins and outs of Linux. IMO M$ is in for some stiffer compitition in the next decade.

[Sorin]

IMO M$ is in for some stiffer compitition in the next decade.

Hopefully it doesn't take a whole decade for something decent to finally take some real market share in the average home user market.

I'd love to install and use something else, but the lengths that need to be gone through to get stuff working doesn't ring my bells. I can do anything I need to in Windows: get any hardware or software working, fix any problem, install, manage, or get rid of stuff, etc. I can easily apply a lot of computer literacy, knowhow and enthusiast-ism (i am aware of the word enthusiasm, but it doesn't convey the right concept) when I need to.

I can apply it, but the thing is I don't want to apply it. Linux is too much effort. Too much work. I don't want to have to be a hacker just to get my GD OS working. Give me an installer for programs and drivers for christ's sake. You know, install-this-program-or-driver-package.exe. I don't want to have to be a hacker to change settings. I don't want to have to be a hacker to install the OS or programs and drivers. I don't want to be a hacker for day to day running and operating of my computer. That's the biggest thing deterring me from the alternatives. Hold my hand for the love of God! I don't want to learn the complete inner workings and workarounds and hacks and ins and outs of a whole new OS! I went through that with Windows, don't make me do it again!

Although Gentoo was the closest distro I used to meeting the above requirements. All hail 'emerge'. And being able to completely customize the kernel to my processor and some other hardware was amazing, Windows needs that.

If they can just make the alternatives easy to use for the average home idiot with enough software support that isn't we-only-do-it-in-our-free-time-and-support-is-liable-to-be-discontinued-at-any-minute governed, then it shouldn't take that whole decade to get enough competition in the home user market to make Microsoft change their ways.

Although the Dictator Rights Mis-management of Vista sure makes a body take a long hard look at the alternatives even now.

[UnseenMenace]

I still think the biggest problem for Microsoft will be convincing people they need to upgrade, what exactly does Vista do that XP can not ?

[NsOmNiA91130]

What exactly does 2k do that XP cannot?

:beer:

[roYal]

What exactly does 2k do that XP cannot?

:beer:

Emergency Repair Disk? :P

[benbaked]

i think maybe these operating systems with five letter codenames are problematic. vista, tiger, must be a bad omen since both operating systems are...well nevermind. i don't know enough about vista (other then what i've read about its drm technologies) to call it garbage, nor do i care to know about vista.

What exactly does 2k do that XP cannot?

2k can share an appletalk printer to windows clients and it makes it super easy to do. xp can't do that, at least not any way that i've found and certainly not for free (well i guess you could do it by moving the appletalk protocol files from 2k to an xp machine, microsoft or apple probably have some eula i haven't read that prohibits just that). 2k works quite well for my networked laserjet 4ml.

[Rozal]

Vista is quite easy once you've used it

[Mr.Guvernment]

i am so sick of these individuals who hardly know how to worka VCR giving reviews on operatings systems.

Maybe they dont realize one very very important factor




IT IS A BETA!!!!


Some people should not be allowed to publish things on the internet, and this also goes for %90 of the video's on youtube!




Quote:
Originally Posted by NsOmNiA91130
That's what everyone said when XP came out and everyone was using 2k.


Lol, I was just about to post this but saw you did. Literally everyone was anti-xp when xp was nearing release. Now, everyone uses XP and is anti-Vista. In 4-5 years everyone will be using Vista and will be anti-next os after Vista. It's just the way it works. Many people are just too afraid of change so they try to find negative things about stuff to give them excuses as to why they don't want to change.


Exactly!


:D

[Rozal]

i am so sick of these individuals who hardly know how to worka VCR giving reviews on operatings systems.

Maybe they dont realize one very very important factor




IT IS A BETA!!!!


Some people should not be allowed to publish things on the internet, and this also goes for %90 of the video's on youtube!





Exactly!


:D
:thup: :thup: :thup: :thup:

[benbaked]

IT IS A BETA!!!!

what's mac os x tiger's excuse then? :-/

i admit i didn't like xp at first because of the revised start menu and i thought seeing rover retriever in the search window was pretty stupid, but now i'm so used to xp i prefer the xp-style start menu. i still think rover retriever has no place in the search window.

[star-affinity]

what's mac os x tiger's excuse then? :-/
Sorry, but what's so "beta" with Mac OS X Tiger?

[benbaked]

in my opinion it's still a buggy operating system more then a year after release, much more buggy then panther ever was. its no better then a beta in my mind.

:welcome: to ocforums!

[Captain Newbie]

in my opinion it's still a buggy operating system more then a year after release, much more buggy then panther ever was. its no better then a beta in my mind.

:welcome: to ocforums!
Yeah, but it was probably released in some semblance of on-time (Note: I don't care, I use Panther.)

Apple's done four major releases in the time that Microsoft has done...none. The only thing notable to come out of either SP is no-execute protection support. For the most part they have been quality releases (for the most part). Microsoft's lagging. So they'd better knock my socks off with Vista. And even then I don't know that I'll be buying it right away.

[grumperfish]

what's mac os x tiger's excuse then? :-/

i admit i didn't like xp at first because of the revised start menu and i thought seeing rover retriever in the search window was pretty stupid, but now i'm so used to xp i prefer the xp-style start menu. i still think rover retriever has no place in the search window.
You know you can disable that dog right? I never noticed how odd it was with him there until recently when I saw my little cousin using Microsoft BOB on my grandma's ancient Windows 95 machine. I saw the dog and was like..hmm.. wait..

[star-affinity]

in my opinion it's still a buggy operating system more then a year after release, much more buggy then panther ever was. its no better then a beta in my mind.

:welcome: to ocforums!

Thanks for the welcome! :)

Can you give some examples of Tiger bugs?
I think it runs a least as well as Panther did with the difference that Tiger is a bit faster.

[benbaked]

the finder seems unstable, sometimes when i insert a disc or mount a network volume it doesn't show up. i had to disable the command-space shortcut in spotlight because sometimes i accidentally press those keys simultaneously and it would cause the spotlight window to appear and the spinning beach ball to appear as well, sometimes for up to 15 minutes. a couple days ago i searched for something on the tiger server (from a regular tiger computer through the network) through spotlight and the results came up with strange characters as well as dotted lines imposed all over the spotlight window, i had no choice but to reboot.

also it seems to not play well with retrospect backup software, i don't know why. it seems like the new ACL and metadata additions to tiger are incompatible with some programs, but i could be wrong. i'm hoping there is some program i'm running that is causing these glitches, that none of these are bugs, maybe some extension that isn't tiger compatible...shoot maybe even some font that is not compatible (although i've ran fontbook's validators and everything checks out ok). maybe even the retrospect client itself is not fully compatible, but i can't find a better backup software that does the same kind of scheduled network backups retrospect does as well as supports the scsi tape library.

i like tiger's new features, particularly spotlight is quite useful...but if i have to reboot two or three times a day its not worth it to me.

[pik4chu]

Yeah, but it was probably released in some semblance of on-time (Note: I don't care, I use Panther.)

Apple's done four major releases in the time that Microsoft has done...none. The only thing notable to come out of either SP is no-execute protection support. For the most part they have been quality releases (for the most part). Microsoft's lagging. So they'd better knock my socks off with Vista. And even then I don't know that I'll be buying it right away.

I too wish I could sit down and focus on learnin g a bit of Linux, it would certainly help in my job but it is a bit of a hassle and is a low priority. Its a pitty that this is such a deterring factor or they would get a leap ahead.

What someone needs to do is maybe a Linux PR stunt. Like offer a machine for sale (or trial) that comes with a "free OS" don't tell them what it is but set it all up nice and user friendly, Ive seen linux GUI setups that look damn near identical to XP. And then add a line like. "Use this PC for a week or maybe a month and see what you think, if you like it just send (some small amount, we are not building dual core systems here ;) ) to use to keep it. If you want the machine but dont like the OS we will sell you XP for a reduced price as a thank you for trying.

Honestly, as long as the average user can do thier stuff they wouldnt have much of a clue that what they are using costs 100-200$ less. Its just that someone needs to set it up for them so they can get past the frustration(despite how small it may/could be) of installing it and they'd be happy as a clam. Just my thoughts on that but seriously How far off do you think I would be by saying hmmm 70% of the 'test subjects' would be happy with linux if you gave it to them pre-configured?

The problem with GNU software is there isnt a PR dep't. so no way to compete with the big dog other than by word of mouth. And when was the last time you heard two ladies in the supermarket talking about the latest release of RedHat? :p

@slowinstall comment, you must be running the bare minimum rec to isntall it then, on a Celly D 2.4 with 768mbram and an external usb DVD drive it took maybe 40 minutes to boot into windows.

@NSOmnia, you really nailed it right there but even so. Microsoft is going to have to bust thier but to convince people they need to upgrade, especiall in reference to the "$349 for Super-Ultimate-Duper-OMG-Edition" as so elloquintly stated by CN

As for me, maybe Ill install linux somewhere eventually, but Im certainly not paying a dime for vista for quite some time after it comes out. I doubt many other co-workers would bother with it at all so that leaves me with an MSDN key for fun. But still blech.

[SeasonalEclipse]

Hm.. I wonder if Vista will be released as that name and not something else.. like.. windows 2007 or something. XD Does anyone know what XP code names were while it was developed? I wonder if they were any better then... long horn.. or.. vista... Didnt IBM make a "Vista" computer series?.. Lol

[pik4chu]

Hm.. I wonder if Vista will be released as that name and not something else.. like.. windows 2007 or something. XD Does anyone know what XP code names were while it was developed? I wonder if they were any better then... long horn.. or.. vista... Didnt IBM make a "Vista" computer series?.. Lol
IBM made the Netvista, was a server class IIRC

[Flocons De Mais]

That's what everyone said when XP came out and everyone was using 2k.

I used the XP beta and I didn't feel that way. The entire file system structure seems rather byzantine in Vista. I use the x64 version and there are close to 60000 files after installation ( what percentage of those are related to temp beta code, I don't know). The System tasks and Event log windows are convoluted and slow. You have to go through 3 layers of dialogs just to edit file/folder permissions. :bang head We'll see how it turns out in 6 months. :santa2:

[Zanai]

Early XP was whistler if i remember right for the alpha release, and it was bloody good compared to the final release they managed to screw it all up by then

[Zanai]

BTW The OEM vendors are advertising things as Vista ready so doubt they will change the name.

[theELVISCERATOR]

Betas are supposed to avoid sucking TOO much basically.

[star-affinity]

the finder seems unstable, sometimes when i insert a disc or mount a network volume it doesn't show up. i had to disable the command-space shortcut in spotlight because sometimes i accidentally press those keys simultaneously and it would cause the spotlight window to appear and the spinning beach ball to appear as well, sometimes for up to 15 minutes. a couple days ago i searched for something on the tiger server (from a regular tiger computer through the network) through spotlight and the results came up with strange characters as well as dotted lines imposed all over the spotlight window, i had no choice but to reboot.

also it seems to not play well with retrospect backup software, i don't know why. it seems like the new ACL and metadata additions to tiger are incompatible with some programs, but i could be wrong. i'm hoping there is some program i'm running that is causing these glitches, that none of these are bugs, maybe some extension that isn't tiger compatible...shoot maybe even some font that is not compatible (although i've ran fontbook's validators and everything checks out ok). maybe even the retrospect client itself is not fully compatible, but i can't find a better backup software that does the same kind of scheduled network backups retrospect does as well as supports the scsi tape library.

i like tiger's new features, particularly spotlight is quite useful...but if i have to reboot two or three times a day its not worth it to me.
It's definitely some hardware or software that interfere with the OS. I have a G5 running Tiger at work and while I don't use Retrospect on that I do have use it for quite a lot of network activity to various network share etc. and I also use it to administer over 100 Macs, both servers and clients. It's usually up and running for at least about a month before something requires a restart, and it is mostly just a software update that requires it.

We DO have Retrospect backup software running on two G5:s with SCSI cards for both tape and hard drive backup, and that is not working very well, but it doesn't show the way you describe with Finder problems and Spotlight not working etc. We are going to stop using Retrospect now anyway since we have bought a more "professional" backup solution: :)

[Oroka Sempai]

Hopefully it doesn't take a whole decade for something decent to finally take some real market share in the average home user market.

I have been told that Ubuntu is one of the better Linux flavours for a begginer... I am not a newb with computers, but I am having a hell of a time just installing a videocard driver. Sure I can surf the net (not using my wireless connection, I need to run a wire for that), I can play the games and stuff... but once I get slightly off the beaten path, I almost need to be a Linux expert.

Unless someone pumps some serious $ into a specific distro (a Google Linux would be nice), Linux will not threaten Windows... atleast not during the Vista generation. I think there is a better chance of getting OSX on a PC before a really easy dist of Linux.


Well... I ordered a Vista Beta 2 64bit DVD, proably use that for a few months.

[brakezone]

20 reasons??? I can think of 200!

[citronym]

200 reasons other than personal gripes, bugs associated with a BETA or the evolution of system requirements? Everybody complained about how bloated XP was, and same with every other previous OS.

[Recursion]

I find it sloppy but still very nice.

[brakezone]

I know, I'm just kidding about the 200 reasons thing. Vista has alot of new components that havn't appeared in any other operating system. Hopefully, these new things will not result in some horrible exploit. There is also alot of things that I like about it.