Watercooled Armor - No Synthetics

[Captain Helghas]

You may be thinking, didn't Synthetic Fenix just post this? Mine is NOTHING like his. :)
Differences (His vs. Mine):
CPU: AMD vs. Intel
GPU: nVidia vs. ATI
Setup: T-line vs Res, Danger Den vs. Swiftech, Performance vs. Quiet

Onto the discussion. My setup has:

Apogee
MCW30 Chipset
P5 Mosfet
Maze4gpu
BIPII
Modded MCW350

Now onto the pics. I'll have a few more up as the day goes on, and I get the courage to turn it on. The liquid is Barnstead Nanopure water with HydrX. I think I'll stick with just water and ammonium azide next time. I don't really like the look of the HydrX.
http://www.upload2.com/freeimagehosting/88ed7fb0c99c1e6c79515531082e53b2.jpg
http://www.upload2.com/freeimagehosting/d7452b1829a0afc0cdcd4b22c0ae2966.jpg

[SolidxSnake]

MOSFET COOLING?!

that's so sweet man, never even knew there were FET blocks out there!

[Captain Helghas]

Oh Yeah. (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=450471&highlight=P5+mosfet+waterblock) So I got the courage to turn it on, and no video. The mobo posts, I know that. Just no video coming to the monitor.

I don't have another video card to test in the mobo, or another mobo to test the video card. Looks like I'll have to make a trip to Worst Buy to pick up a spare.

[SolidxSnake]

ouch man, lets hope your vcard works after you try the spare

[Captain Helghas]

Alright, so I picked up a 7300 GS ($100!!) and tested it. No video.

Here's what I've noticed. The keyboard is reacting to the Num Lock and the three lights blink to show it has been initialized.

I've tried DVI and DSub. No picture.

There are no beeps or anything at all coming from the Speaker.

Any suggestions other than remove it from the case and try each component separately?

Let me sum up the parts for you.
Asus P5WD2-E (New)
PD 930 (New)
OCZ Gold DDR2 533 (Bought used, can't really test)
Saphire X1900XTX (Tested a spare)

Everything else is disconnected for now. The EZ Plug and ETX plug are both in.

[Captain Helghas]

So I figured the problem out. The mobo is grounding to the case. I figure plastic screws or teflon tape might fix it. Any other suggestions?

[SolidxSnake]

So I figured the problem out. The mobo is grounding to the case. I figure plastic screws or teflon tape might fix it. Any other suggestions?


Try remounting the board... the screwholes on the mobo are supposed to ground.

Try running caseless as well.

[Captain Helghas]

I ran it caseless, that's how I figured it was grounding. I mounted the board a number of times. I can get it to post with the mobo out of the case, just not while it's in. Even if I just screw one screw in, it won't post.

The good news is that none of the parts have to be RMA'd.

[sir_pyro]

Well, if just ONE screw messing you up, you're going to have to line ever card's bracket with plastic, every screw, every drive... You get the picture. Ether you have a power supply issue or your MB is defective.

By the way, what do you think of the Mosfet cooling? I'm going to be adding it to my second loop here in a few weeks and I'd like to actually talk to some one that's done it before I do.

[Captain Helghas]

The PSU and MB are good. It posts just fine while out of the case. The 12V rail measures 12.34V. PSU is a Silverstone ST-60F.

As far as MOSFET cooling, I can't really comment. However about mounting it:
Cons: Block is aluminum and 3/8". It also gets in the way with a few CPU WB.

Fixes: REALLY pure water and an anti-corrosive additive will correct for the water. If you only use a bit of tubing and the reducers, the 3/8" isn't too restrictive. I cut my CPU WB so it fit.

When she is finally up and running in Windows, I'll post about the ripple and Vdroop.

Off topic, but somewhat on topic, How do you have 3/8" tubing and a modded MCW350?

[Alien1099]

Don't feel bad. I setup my watercooling system this weekend and my computer's not working either. I think my video card and motherboard might be dead. :eek: I'll know today. It looked so beautiful too. :bang head

[scott d]

I had this problem w/ my mobo a while back too. What I did then was put a piece of paper between the stand offs and the mobo. That ended up being a PITA, so this time around I just put a piece of electrical tape on each of the standoffs so they don't actually touch the motherboard mouting holes. that solved my problem, In my case it was the standoffs, not the screws causing the short.

[Deathknight]

They make little paper washers for this reason :) It used to be when you bought a case you got a bunch of em along with the screws.

[scott d]

yep, i have some of those, I found electrical tape was a little easier becuase it doesnt move around once you've got it in place.

[synthetic_fenix]

Just had to attempt to copy off of me huh? :) Nice setup, You did better with the tubing then I did. When I go SLI in a few months I will re-do my tubing and go with Water Antifreeze and Iodine instead of the PC-ICE.

[PunkRawk911]

glad to hear you got it figured out. My roommate was having the same sort of problem once, and well, long story short he forgot to put the mobo standoffs in and just screwed the mobo right to the case. Long story short, he had alot of RMA'ing to do.

[sir_pyro]

If that was directed at me (on the pump), I run 3/8" from the tump, through the blocks, to the res. From the res to the pump (a really short distance) I run 1/2". It gets the job done, but I'm working on getting a MCP655 for the main loop to free up the MCP350 for the second loop. Though I suspect that the moded MCP355 might actually be better off... If i odnt like the D5 I can make a profit on ebay for what I'm paying for it.

[Captain Helghas]

Sir pyro: I see. I thought you had a 1/2" output on the MCW350 as well.

All else: I called Asus today to see what they suggested. The Customer Service rep (not a tech) said that he got at least 2 calls a week about this. The tech trained him to say "put electrical tape on the standoffs and get plastic washers." I'll be heading to the hardware store to get plastic washers at some point in time. Just have to finish grading so I can devote time to my beast.

Synthetic fenix: I never noticed how bad your tubing was. ;) And I wouldn't have if you didn't point it out. I don't understand why you went t-line>Pump>Rad. I thought my tubing was bad because I have 2 more blocks than you do, and I think I bought thinner walled tubing. It didn't kink too much, but I had all this extra cool sleaves, I could make the turns tighter with it on. The other problem with my tubing is that it's TOO tight. For my res to move, the rad and pump have to move as well. To remove the graphics card, I have to detach the block. Yours will be a bit more tinker friendly I assure you.

[synthetic_fenix]

Actually i went T-line => Pump => CPU => GPU => Rad => Pump

[Captain Helghas]

Hmm.. My mistake then. I'm trying to look over the pics again now, but they aren't coming up.

[Captain Helghas]

So I finally had time to screw with this beast. Still no luck. Here's an update for tonight:

I put electrical tape on the standoffs, and on the back of the mobo where it touches the standoffs. I'm using nylon washers on the screws. I even put a bit of foam behind the mobo to make sure that it wasn't touching the backplate.

Still it won't post.

However, if I take it out of the case, on a no static bag, it post just fine. I need suggestions because I'm out of ideas.

[scott d]

that's bizarre, I've got some nylon thumbscrews i can send you if you want to try non-metal screws too :shrug:

actually, i'm not sure if they'll work or not. what thread pattern do the standoffs take?

[Captain Helghas]

It's fairly thick thread. Exactly the same as normal case or thumb screws. There's some plastic screws I was going to pick up from lowes, but I didn't for some odd reason. I'm thinking of plastic standoffs now. If that doesn't help, then something must be touching the case or getting close enough for sparks.

Which just gave me and idea. I'll try powering it up with the lights off. Edit: No sparks.

[scott d]

Ah, nevermind then, my screws are 6/32. Maybe you could try firing it up outside your case, but with the screws and standoffs attached.'

EDIT: Gah, you edited as I was posting. If you want those screws let me know, I could get them in the mail tomorrow. It's probably quicker to get some from lowes though.

[Captain Helghas]

Yup it posts with screws and standoffs attached when the mobo is out of the case.

[scott d]

so it's gotta be the case then, maybe line the edges of your board with electrical tape so you can be sure they're not contacting the case, and back the entire board with a sheet of paper or something.

or, i guess you could tape up anything in the case that may touch the board

[SolidxSnake]

Try dusting the case out. Check the rear ports (try taking out the IO plate)...

[Captain Helghas]

Dusted the case. Removed the i/o plate. I'm taping up the board now.

I had an idea to test the board out of the case, with the screws and standoffs on, while on a metal plate. Still posted. It must be something touching the case.

[scott d]

any luck yet?

[Captain Helghas]

Nope. I pasted up the sides of the mobo, and romoved ANY metal plate that went from the mobo to the case. Including the metal plate on the video card.

Right now the only circuit to the case is through the screws and the standoffs.

[Captain Helghas]

Well I have to get to bed. I've already stayed up too late tonight. Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'll get back to it tomorrow.

[scott d]

any good news for us yet?

[Captain Helghas]

Not as of yet. I didn't get home from work until late and had a business meeting tonight, and now am too intoxicated. Tomorrow may be better.

[Captain Helghas]

Back to it again. My wife asked if it might have something to do with the orientation. When it was out of the case, it has horizontal, and in the case it was vertical. Despite all logic saying this wouldn't matter, I tried it.

No luck. I'm now taking to mobo out of the case and will put silicone on the standoffs. The silicone has to cure for at least 24 hours before I can use it. So I sealed up four standoffs, one for each corner, and will attempt it tomorrow. This baby will be up in no time. After the sealant cures, there will be absolutely no conductor contacts to the mobo. I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Given my luck with this, I don't exactly have hope.

I keep thinking that these ideas aren't working. If by Sunday night I have not solved the problem, I've decided to get these plastic standoffs (http://www.nanosys1.com/hard-to-find-items-screws-and-standoffs.html). Stability be damned.

[Captain Helghas]

So the sealant was cured with the help of a hair dryer. I also put PTFE tape on the screws. Still nothing. This is so bizarre because there should be zero metal on metal contact. Incidently, I will be ordering the pastic standoffs tonight. Wish me luck when they get here.

[Antioch]

Captain Helghas, is that your powersupply in the top there? If so, what kind is it?

Also, what are those backets/mounts around your harddisks? The blue/silver things...

And, what res is that?

[SolidxSnake]

This is very perplexing... Check your videocard mounting as well... Maybe it's not mounting correctly in the case?

[pmeyer]

Do you have a volt-ohm meter? You can probably get a cheap one for $10 at radio shack if not. Set it to resistance (or to 'beep' when it detects continuity) and clip it to the case and the motherboard ground. Leave it clipped and start assembling. I'm assuming there is a single mobo ground plane which you should be able to connect to through the power supply connection: ( atx ps pinout here (http://xtronics.com/reference/atx_pinout.htm)).

With luck, you should be able to tell which screw/connection/whatever it is that is causing the short (as resistance from case to mobo ground will drop at that point). Hopefully it is only one connection. Then just leave that screw out (if you can) or be extra careful with the PTFE or nylon screw or whatever on that one.

If you assemble it all, no short from ground is seen, and you still don't post, than you have a tougher problem. At that point it would seem like a power supply rail or a signal path is shorting to ground (or coupling to ground in some unhealthy way.)

Good luck!

[Captain Helghas]

Captain Helghas, is that your powersupply in the top there? If so, what kind is it?

Also, what are those backets/mounts around your harddisks? The blue/silver things...

And, what res is that?
PSU: Silverstone ST-60F
Blue things: HDD heatpipe cooler. Manufactured by Zalman I believe. They keep the Raptors quiet.
Res: MCRES-micro. By far my favorite.

This is very perplexing... Check your videocard mounting as well... Maybe it's not mounting correctly in the case?
Same thing happens with two other cards. I even took off the I/O plate of the vid card and inserted it. No luck.

Do you have a volt-ohm meter?
I don't, but I will go get one tomorrow and tinker around with it. Thanks.

[Captain Helghas]

Update.

I finally got the plastic standoffs in the mail. Attached them and inserted mobo in case. No post. I'm getting VERY frustrated with this whole thing.

Something I noticed today though, there is a red LED on the X1900XTX that lights when I power up. Any idea on whether this is normal? It's directly next to the PCI-E power connector.

Edit: I think I may have found a problem. If I jiggle my chipset block the power cuts off. This may be where the problem is. I'm going to reseat the block and lay down some more artic ceramique.

OMFG! It worked! Took almost two weeks but the damn this posts! WOOT!

[scott d]

Finally! So all that worry about grounding and shorting issues, and the problem was the chipset block? Hey, at least you got it figured out, lets hope this is the last problem you'll have with it.

[Captain Helghas]

Well I had to take some time off with it. I'm not REALLY supposed to be messing with it at all this weekend. I've got a stack of grading due Monday and my first anniverary is tomorrow (Sunday.) However, since I don't have to work on Tuesday, ya'll can expect some benches and OC reports then. Woot.

[Captain Helghas]

Alright, so I couldn't wait. I put it together tonight. This is my first post from this machine. I'll edit with screenshots after OCing. Wish me luck.

Edit: All there is for tonight. I've got a big day ahead of me.

http://www.upload2.com/freeimagehosting/f75ea72b78f77565cba9b2a9e74a6616.jpg

[caddy359]

happy aniversary captain helghas - loking at your pics makes me wonder 930 or 940 should i buy hmmm

[Captain Helghas]

Let me finish with this one before you make a decision. This was trying to get the highest clock with 1.4V, and I got to 305 FSB, but it wasn't stable at all. This one dual folded all night at 300 FSB without error, so I'm happy. A voltage increase will get me to 5 I hope, but that may not be realistic.