View Full Version : Liquid Helium for -451F!
This is a cool article, but I doubt any of us could manage super-cool temps like that... I don't think any of us have the materials to handle that at home, nevermind transporting it!
http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-6085568.html?part=rss&tag=6085568&subj=news
LN2 is already overkill as it is ...
LN2 is already overkill as it is ...
Yeah, but according to the article it got them rather far...
FSBxtreme
06-20-06, 01:47 PM
whooooa...350GHz chip....lol...beat that.
scott d
06-20-06, 01:48 PM
so if I were to attend Georgia Tech, could I take courses in overclocking :D
soulfly1448
06-20-06, 02:02 PM
That's totally slow. I've gotten Tom's mom upto 600GHz.
I can't wait to see what speeds we get in the end user sector in the future.
That's totally slow. I've gotten Tom's mom upto 600GHz.
I can't wait to see what speeds we get in the end user sector in the future.
Well, I'm not sure if these chips are really for the PC... but then again, whatever it's for... 500ghz is NUTS!
500GHz ..
LoL, Can you say "microwave" ?
I could cook a hotpocket with that CPU
Drat you, g0dM@n, you beat me to the punch!
The BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5099584.stm)has some photos of the unit.
xTrEmEoVrClOcKr
06-20-06, 02:20 PM
That's interesting a chip could even handle -450f in the first place. Even Ln2 is getting to some of the Intel / AMDs now .. imagine 451 :D.
Drat you, g0dM@n, you beat me to the punch!
The BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5099584.stm)has some photos of the unit.
Sorry... and thanks for the link! :)
That's interesting a chip could even handle -450f in the first place. Even Ln2 is getting to some of the Intel / AMDs now .. imagine 451 :D.
Precisely what I was thinking, man...
scott d
06-20-06, 02:34 PM
is there a point that getting too cold will actually slow the electrons down and hinder a cpu's speed?
i've heard from the top guys over at XS that despite the fact that it is the coldest thing on earth, its basically too cold to pour in a tube and stick on your CPU - its so close to absolute zero that electrons actually begin to slow down, rather than speed up because its so cold, and it just wouldn't work
and the fact that its ungodly expensive (heh... the gas of the gods LOL) when you compare it to the price of LN2 per liter, doesn't make it a very enticing alternative to LN2, no matter how much colder it is
edit: (post made in reference being 1. practical and 2. with currently available CPU's)
but hot damn (or cold damn... or damn cold), I wonder how long it'll take to get processors @ 350ghz stock on a desktop platform :drool:
is there a point that getting too cold will actually slow the electrons down and hinder a cpu's speed?
I thought the same thing, but I guess not in this case, lol.
Its not a processor at all, its a chip, aka a few transistors. That's all, the speed is only how quickly they managed ot get the transistors to switch. Thats all, its nothing. I beleive previous record was 400ghz or so.
hitbyaprkedcar7
06-20-06, 03:12 PM
well whatever it is.. thats redicilously fast. I want some super pi benchmakrs! lolol 32million in 00 seconds
Okay thanks for not reading.
Its not a cpu, its not a chip that even peforms a function.
It cannot run super pi, it cannot run a damn calculator.
It's a transistor gate.
Thats it, end of story, its not even a huge mark anyway. In most cpu's today the gates singularly could do 300ghz+ switchings.
xTrEmEoVrClOcKr
06-20-06, 03:17 PM
Putting into what NoL said, I dont think the IBM chip of that caliber wouldn't have the resources to finish SPi, it's just a few transistors.
I mentioned that it wasn't for PCs. It's just a prototype of something under construction. It's not a CPU for a PC.
Actually, -268,2°C will speed the chips down, what is quite an interesting thing as I think, actually it will only literally speed it down, but physically speed it up....
It is just that around -272°C is the lowest temperature possible, which you can also see as the point 0 Kelvin...
At such a low temperature, there is no energy, not a single electron or proton or whatever can move, because there is no energy (and that's also why it is the lowest possible temperature, as temperature is energy and 0 Kelvin means no energy)...
Now as temperatures get lower and lower, less and less energy is present, meaning electrons will move slower, that's why they are literally slower...
But now there is a philosophical question coming up, that I think can be physically proofed, but don't take this as granted, it's just a theoriy out of my mind that I created earlier when I was bored and thought about all kind of things...
The question is: Will it really slow down, or just slow down for us?
Because we live in at least the 4th dimension:
we have the 3d axis creating space and giving the possibility to create volumes...
Then we have the 4th dimension, that enables things to actually move and interact, that is what we call time...
Now, as time is the ability to move, and at 0 Kelvin there is no energy and thus no possibility to move, precisiely seen that would mean we don't have any time there..
Now at -268,2°C, we are quite close to this point and have less possibility to move, thus we have some kind of lack of time there, as time needs energy...
So regarding this, time moves slower in colder regions, and so inside these regions the chip does also run faster compared to the environments abilty to move,.. or.. the time present in this environment..
Got that? Maybe crap, but I like thinking about such things :P
Pf.Farnsworth
06-20-06, 04:18 PM
Someone on XS a while back got a liquid helium plant and played around. But one would cost a fortune and the power consumption was something like 10kw. Its was huge and loud. Not very practical.
Electrons will not slowdown at absolute zero, and absolute zero is unatainable.
Holy Diver
06-20-06, 04:25 PM
Because we live in at least the 4th dimension:
we have the 3d axis creating space and giving the possibility to create volumes...
Then we have the 4th dimension, that enables things to actually move and interact, that is what we call time...
So are you saying I can't overclock my flux capacitor with liquid helium? :beer:
Holy Diver
06-20-06, 04:27 PM
oops.
The question is: Will it really slow down, or just slow down for us?
Because we live in at least the 4th dimension:
we have the 3d axis creating space and giving the possibility to create volumes...
Then we have the 4th dimension, that enables things to actually move and interact, that is what we call time...
Now, as time is the ability to move, and at 0 Kelvin there is no energy and thus no possibility to move, precisiely seen that would mean we don't have any time there..
Now at -268,2°C, we are quite close to this point and have less possibility to move, thus we have some kind of lack of time there, as time needs energy...
So regarding this, time moves slower in colder regions, and so inside these regions the chip does also run faster compared to the environments abilty to move,.. or.. the time present in this environment..
Got that? Maybe crap, but I like thinking about such things :P
I sorta get what you're trying to say... but aren't you bringing up relativity now by doing that comparison between the object and its environment?
Electrons will not slowdown at absolute zero, and absolute zero is unatainable.
Electrons don't slow down at absolute zero? Not that I have the answer, but could you provide reference cuz now I'm interested.
And yes, absolute zero is unattainable, but I believe that Rinne was hypothetically speaking and trying to reason why the cold temperature actually yielded a higher clock (350ghz to 500ghz).
Absolute zero is at -274,6˚C not -272˚C.
No they would run slower in comparison to us, as they would have such a slow down because of the lack of energy.
Pf.Farnsworth
06-20-06, 04:40 PM
Electrons will not slowdown at absolute zero, and absolute zero is unatainable.
Acording to the lastest model the electrons are not really moving. They so to speak appear in random location without what it seems exhibiting a displacement, ie moving. And when in contact with other matter they seem to loose what apears to be their partical state and become something like a field or a sphere around the nucleus, not really moving anywhere in relation to the nucleus. I do not fully understand this model yet so I cant say much but it has been confirmed.
However on the other had, temperature is the average kinetic energy of the atoms in a body. If the temperature is 0 kelvin then the average kinetic energy of the atoms is 0. If the average kinetic energy of the atoms is 0 then there is no movement of the atoms.
I dont know if saying if the atom is not moving as a whole but parts of it are then its not moving. Its all relative to what the movement is relative to. Its like if I move my arms while sitting down am I moving or not.
I'll have to ask my proffessor tomorrow to explain things a little more.
I sorta get what you're trying to say... but aren't you bringing up relativity now by doing that comparison between the object and its environment?
Electrons don't slow down at absolute zero? Not that I have the answer, but could you provide reference cuz now I'm interested.
And yes, absolute zero is unattainable, but I believe that Rinne was hypothetically speaking and trying to reason why the cold temperature actually yielded a higher clock (350ghz to 500ghz).
Relativity is important as the fundementals on which physics is built upon changes. Distance, mass and time all seem to be relative. For instance relative to a fixed position in space if a meter stick is traveling 90% the speed of light it will be physicaly 50% shorter, and it will have twice the mass. The hands of a clock that is traveling at 90% the speed of light will move twice as slow.
They did an interesting expirement at SLAC http://www.slac.stanford.edu/ where they accelerated an electron to 99.999...% the speed of light and its mass was that of a basketball.
So lets not diss relativity and einstein's theories of special and general relativity.
Absolute zero is at -274,6˚C not -272˚C.
-273.15C
Electrons have very little mass, mass contains energy, energy can be sorta equivalent to heat. Most of the mass of the atom is located in the nucleus as most would say. Tempearture effects bonds, not into the atom.
As a solid things vibrate at the molecular level, temperature effects that vibration. Absolute zero = No vibration.
-273.15C
g0dM@n confirmed.
or... -459.67F
One thing I feel that is missing from the equation is that the chip is generating prodigious amounts of heat energy which is being removed by the liquid Helium. Although the LH2 is -273C +/-, the chip itself is likely significantly warmer.
That would probably be the air adding heat.
0k = -273.15c
we've established that already, proth!! :)
for a second i thought that said okay = -273.15c... :D :D
An extremely cold temperature like that is found naturally only in outer space, but can be artificially achieved on Earth using ultracold materials such as liquid helium. Absolute zero comes at minus 459 F.
Damn. Too bad it can't be used in "inner space." =/
Pf.Farnsworth
06-21-06, 01:59 AM
-273.15C
Electrons have very little mass, mass contains energy, energy can be sorta equivalent to heat. Most of the mass of the atom is located in the nucleus as most would say. Tempearture effects bonds, not into the atom.
As a solid things vibrate at the molecular level, temperature effects that vibration. Absolute zero = No vibration.
Temperasture doesnt effect vibation on the atomic level, you have it backwards. The average kenetic energy of the attoms in a body is temperature. And temperature referes to the vibration of the atoms not molecules.
Electrons will not move at absolute zero. Not that we are sure they are moving at all.
The process of cooling involves removing energy from a system. When there is no more energy able to be removed, the system is said to be at absolute zero, which is the point on the thermodynamic (absolute) temperature scale where all kinetic motion in the particles comprising matter ceases and they are at complete rest in the “classic” (non-quantum mechanical) sense. By definition, absolute zero is a temperature of precisely 0 kelvin (–273.15 °C or –459.67 °F).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature
"all kinetic motion in the particles comprising matter ceases", electrons protons and neutrons are particles.
>HyperlogiK<
06-21-06, 02:12 AM
Its not a processor at all, its a chip, aka a few transistors. That's all, the speed is only how quickly they managed ot get the transistors to switch. Thats all, its nothing. I beleive previous record was 400ghz or so.
*It is a proper CPU, the BBC article reports that it was performing 500 Gflops.
*It doesn't *require* supercooling, the article says that it was able to run at about 70% of that speed with ordinary (possibly a very high end custom air cooler?) cooling.
*The article didn't mention what they were but it referred to "effects in these devices at cryogenic temperatures which potentially make them faster than simple theory would suggest," - any ideas?
*Apparently in the near (doesn't say how near!) future they think they can get it running at around 1000 Ghz.
>HyperlogiK<
06-21-06, 02:14 AM
One thing I feel that is missing from the equation is that the chip is generating prodigious amounts of heat energy which is being removed by the liquid Helium. Although the LH2 is -273C +/-, the chip itself is likely significantly warmer.
They could get a giant array of billions of X-Ray lasers to cool the chip to absolute zero :) But er... then it wouldn't do anything.
They could get a giant array of billions of X-Ray lasers to cool the chip to absolute zero :) But er... then it wouldn't do anything.
lol... contradicting.
It still wouldn't be absolute zero, they haven't reached absolute zero but they came very close.
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