Switch/Router

[Recursion]

I want to get one of those Big Switches with maybe 30-50 ports. I want one that i can use that is really secure and one that I can program Myself if needed.

Idk why i want it but I want like a server rack switch or router.

ph yeah it need to be able to handle alot of data very fast.

[drenader]

How much do you want to spend on this?

What are you using this for?

Just want a cool looking thing in your room?

[TalRW]

you aren't talking about a switch that is built into a router I'm assuming. What you want is a managed switch. These are able to do some layer 3 functions. They are programmable through either a web interface or CLI (you can do way more through CLI) and probably what you are looking for. My friend got me this switch and you can do a lot of stuff with it.

I was lucky enough to get this for free but something link this will normally run you a couple hundred bucks. Also can you let us know more why you want this and what you are going to be using it for.

Is this kinda what you are looking for?:
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6091/switch017jd.jpg

[Recursion]

Well Yes I guess it would look cool in my room, but Im really sick of Home routers. I keep having problems with them being to weak to keep up with powerfull data transfers or them dying on me at random moments. I dont have a ton of experience with them but well i think this would be something cool.

something I can use that is gigabit ethernet and somthing that I could learn on. Something that possibly has a firewall built in and one that i can alter the commands myself so i can experiment with whats good and bad.


To TalRW I dont know if I wnat something quite that size but definatly something that

Maybe something in the 1U size

http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~emcdonald/pictures/delta-zeta-network/dell-switches-2.jpg




as for price well i really cant spend that much. But I am in need of a new router for this years school year, well because my Linksys router doesnt recognize the connection as a 100mbs and it only does 10mbs. so i download super slow, compared to no router it does around 6000kbs.

[Deathknight]

If you want to go cheaper and still have the power and flexibility you may want to look into a switch plus a linux firewall distro like ipcop or smoothwall.

You can basically take an old useless pc (I run mine off of an old PII 266mhz machine) throw 2 network cards into it (which was not a problem to scrounge up since motherboards now all have nics onboard) and it acts as your firewall/router. It gives a nice powerful firewall, flexible configuration and a web interface to manage it. Also you have alot of usage statistics and firewall logs etc that you typically do not get with your cable/dsl routers. I use ipcop and it only goes down for power outages or to apply patches. No need to worry about the flaky routers that sometimes overheat or stop working occasionally :)

[TalRW]

I competly agree with the smoothwall/IPcop/whatever else you can think of idea. If you run a spare PC with linux/unix/freeBSD and have it do your routing for you it will be able to handle the load. I'm guessing you are probably using bittorrent and it is crashing your consumer router right? If you go this route you should be able to handle it. Just get a extra PC (PII would be plenty overkill) and check out

http://ipcop.org/
or
smoothwall.org

then you could get a regular layer 2 switch and you wouldn't have to program it and can just handle it all on your box and trust me you can do a lot of configuration.

[ErikD]

Keep in mind that none of those better enterprise grade switches wil come with built in routers. You need to get a switch and a router. Also it means no more plug and play for you! You will need to do some basic configurations at the very least to get everything working.

That being said I am a Cisco fan, and basically my whole home network is based on Cisco gear. Very configurable, reliable and secure when done right. You can pick up used 100Mbps switches for under $200 in the 12-24 port range usually. If you really want higher transfer speeds, meaning Gigabit, then it will cost even more.

[Deathknight]

If you really want higher transfer speeds, meaning Gigabit, then it will cost even more.

There is another thing that is going to run up cost. A layer 2 switch with alot of ports (24 or more) for gigabit speed is going to cost a bundle. If you want to cut costs you could either go with less ports or less speed.

[Recursion]

I competly agree with the smoothwall/IPcop/whatever else you can think of idea. If you run a spare PC with linux/unix/freeBSD and have it do your routing for you it will be able to handle the load. I'm guessing you are probably using bittorrent and it is crashing your consumer router right? If you go this route you should be able to handle it. Just get a extra PC (PII would be plenty overkill) and check out

http://ipcop.org/
or
smoothwall.org

then you could get a regular layer 2 switch and you wouldn't have to program it and can just handle it all on your box and trust me you can do a lot of configuration.


well no actually ive only tried Bit torrent once and think it blows. Its pretty much my USENET downloads that kill the routers. They just cant handle the instense dara transfer. It can get to 30-50 mbs or 3000-5000 kbs at times.

[Recursion]

well I really dont have a spare Pc around. I have my current Pc which is a 2.4ghz intel. I could always get two high end Nics for it. But I wanted to turn this pc into a file server that I could VNC into. So I would always have this running and tyhen when I need to change something i could just use vnc.

I was going to either set it up in windows or BSD, it depends on how much time I have.

But can I do both the fileserver and the router/firewall.

also, when you install these firewalls like smoothwall or ipcop, do they come set up already like with what a standard router has, because Im not confident inmy abilities yet to be 100% secure with my work.

[Deathknight]

also, when you install these firewalls like smoothwall or ipcop, do they come set up already like with what a standard router has, because Im not confident inmy abilities yet to be 100% secure with my work.

Yes, the default configuration will be secure, if you need to port forwarding rules etc you need to set them up yourself. You also have the capability to setup a true DMZ (not the fake dmz like in most cable/dsl routers that just forward all ports to the same machine). With the real dmz you use a third nic card and actually have a seperate network for the dmz.

Now if you wanted to setup a server any way, you could also go with a fullblown linux distro, freebsd etc. You will probably have more configuration vs one of the dedicated packages however.

As for finding a machine, if you did some searching you may be able to find a machine capable. Funny as it may seem, charaties actually have minimum standards of computers that they will let me donated, and to properly dispose of an old computer actually costs money! I have had a couple of machines pass through my hands that the original owner just didn't know what to do with and did not want to throw it in the garbage.

[Bios24]

I would really reccomend setting up a smoothwall/IPCop router and switch. Shouldn't need to spend more that $50-75 on a smoothwall box. Anything over a P2 233mhz and 128mb ram should work good.

Do you really need a managed switch? Most simple unmanaged switches will work just fine. It'll also be chaper to go gigabit that way. If you have the money it would be cool to get a managed switch, but you probably won't gain any performance unless you have high-volume or high-traffic running over it.

[klingens]

Consumer routers suck. All of them. That's the reason you constantly have troubles with your router cum switch from BestBuy or wherever. Consumer switches aren't too bad, at least they don't drop connections or crash. So do what everyone said, build a router out of an old PC with smoothwall or whatever and add a cheap switch behind it. GBit ethernet if you must, just look for good backplane speeds then

[Recursion]

See bringing another PC up to school is just to much. I will have my laptop and then I will have the fileserver pc which is what I have now. Because I kinda just wanted a router, somthing that will not kill me to bring it up.

Is there a way to implement both at the same time.

also whats better smoothwall or ipcop.

[TalRW]

I wouldn't really say one is better than the other becuase a lot of people will say one is better than the other, your best bet would either to try them both out and see what you like or just go with one and see if it works. Either one should probably be ok. I'm gonna post links to some reviews of both.

http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2006/02/09/ipcop_linux_firewall_ipcop/
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2004/12/07/review_smoothwall/index.html

[Recursion]

My brother says smoothwall is only a firewall and I will still need a router?

[klingens]

Your brother should educate himself a bit more what a consumer router does and what smoothwall does.
If you want to you can use your fileserver as a router, but then you need to run it under Linux using shorewall. Windows is not really a good router with ICS, but then it's not good server either.

[fight556]

smoothwall does do basic routing, don't know if it does vlans and such...hmm something new to play with...

[ErikD]

There is a blue interface mod for Smoothwall that lets you add an extra network for wireless. It is seperated from the green, but not open to the outside like the orange.

It does do some basic routing between the networks. I have a couple of internal networks that need access to the same internet gateway. I was able to configure a Smoothwall to route packets to all of them easily enough.

[Recursion]

OK so I am going to try the smoothwall on my next say off from work.

But i am still concerned that well bringing a PC up to school may be to much. I dont really know if I am driving up to Buffalo from NYC this year or taking a plane.

so just for me to start looking are there any roouters/firewall or switches that can offer me what I need, that well I could just buy. something that has the performance to keep up with my data transfer needs.

[TalRW]

I've heard hotbricks are pretty good those will run you anywhere between 100-150 I think.

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

IMO, you're talking about a lot of work, power, software and stess for such a simple job. Why do you need 60 ethernet ports? Do you have 60 computers going simultaneously in your living room?

Building up a smoothwall, means piecing together a spare computer, new software, new programs to learn, trial and error, not to mention, the energy, noise and heat generated by running an extra computer, glitch-free 24/7.

You want a very nice solution, step up, and buy a decient piece of hardware for a little more money. Not all consumer products are crap, just the ones you seen on special at best buy, they're designed for people who surf the web and check their email. I use bittorrents, I use constant filesharing, I'm on many groups similar to usenet, I run remote desktop, and filesharing on 6 computers SIMULTANEOUSLY. I've gone through 2 netgear routers and 3 Linksys routers, all have crashed constantly due to the amount of data that goes through them.

Then one day, my roommate gave me a Linksys VPN router. We referred to it as SuperLinksys. It's a standard 5-port wireless router, small box, looks like another POS you'd buy at best buy. It's supposed to be built for VPN, but I've never used it. Here's the best part. 3 people using bittorrent, 3 mediacenters, 2 Xboxs, constant usage of fileshaing and RDC, and much more. This router has been going solid for the last 6-8 months and I've never had it stop, crash, and I've never had to unplug it.

[ErikD]

Sure there are always better models available, and then there are enterprise models too. It is possible to find something that will work for what you want. The biggest question would really be price, how much does it cost and how much are you willing to spend?

A Smoothwall and a decent switch is just about the cherapest way to get a small network secured, and relieable even with high amounts of data transfer. The problem with most consumer grade routers is that they have underpowered processors and insufficient RAM. Now if you look at something like a Cisco PIX (say the 501 which can basically replace a cheapo home router) it has some pretty impressive specs. A 133MHz AMD processor, 16MB of RAM and 8MB of NVRAM, ability to handle up to 7500 concurrent connections, and provide 60Mbps of firewall throughput. The only problem is cost, at around $400 it certainly isn't what I would call affordable. Now a basic Smoothwall install on a low end PC (just meets the requirments say) can basically do the same thing for much less money.

Other middle of the road options are available too in Linksys SOHO products. They provide better reliability and ability to handle more connections and traffic but they also cost significantly more.

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

well, yes, Cisco makes really good stuff that's along the lines of commercial use. The same roommate that gave me my router has a few Cisco products lying around that he scored at his last job. You're right, $400 is a bit on the high end for a router. I'd say a decient router starts at about $150 for most of our needs. What most people on here need is something that can handle a considerable amount more non-stop bandwidth than the average consumer, but I would say, we also don't need something that would run a large corperation either.

Yes, many people do have spare computers lying around as well as ethernet cards, but you're talking about running an old clunker of a machine day in and day out. I'm currently using an old tower as my MP3 server for my wireless devices. P3 933MHz, 250W power supply, and quite a large case considering all that's in there's only a motherboard and 2 HDDs. Computer hardware costs money too, if I were to biuld a smoothwall, I'd prolly use a micro-atx chassis.

[Recursion]

IMO, you're talking about a lot of work, power, software and stess for such a simple job. Why do you need 60 ethernet ports? Do you have 60 computers going simultaneously in your living room?

Building up a smoothwall, means piecing together a spare computer, new software, new programs to learn, trial and error, not to mention, the energy, noise and heat generated by running an extra computer, glitch-free 24/7.

You want a very nice solution, step up, and buy a decient piece of hardware for a little more money. Not all consumer products are crap, just the ones you seen on special at best buy, they're designed for people who surf the web and check their email. I use bittorrents, I use constant filesharing, I'm on many groups similar to usenet, I run remote desktop, and filesharing on 6 computers SIMULTANEOUSLY. I've gone through 2 netgear routers and 3 Linksys routers, all have crashed constantly due to the amount of data that goes through them.

Then one day, my roommate gave me a Linksys VPN router. We referred to it as SuperLinksys. It's a standard 5-port wireless router, small box, looks like another POS you'd buy at best buy. It's supposed to be built for VPN, but I've never used it. Here's the best part. 3 people using bittorrent, 3 mediacenters, 2 Xboxs, constant usage of fileshaing and RDC, and much more. This router has been going solid for the last 6-8 months and I've never had it stop, crash, and I've never had to unplug it.



Thanks for the tip, I like learning new things. Ease of use is a bad thing.

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

Thanks for the tip, I like learning new things. Ease of use is a bad thing.
Nothing like a router that cost $15/month in electricity. :rolleyes:

I don't know what he has lying around, but I haven't had much luck with older machines. I can get them to run fine, but for the little assignments I give them it's not worth the noise, space, heat and power. It's amazing how loud older hard drives are in comparison.

If I had the need for that kind of network management, I'd most likely build up a mini-itx system with a small psu and laptop HDD. I wouldn't build one nor run an old clunker of a computer tower just so I could get more out of my bitorrent downloads.

[klingens]

No harddisk: flash. Guaranteed noiseless and no moving parts. Heck, a linux router fits on a floppy.

[Snugglebear]

As per the thread in storage, it really helps to understand what it is you're trying to accomplish with all this. Are you wiring & serving a dorm? Campus undernet (i.e. outside existing infrastructure)? Starting a local ISP? Running a research lab? Creating a tribute website for sorority girls?

[gorilly]

smoothwall + a 24 port managed switch

i have a 24 port netgear FS526T managed switch, it has another 4 switches running off of it with a total of about 40 clients, including servers, workstations, printers, AP's and a router. the current up time is... well since i bought it! over a year... (apart from the odd power outage here and there) it has NEVER gone down, and this network gets used day and night, moving huge files at a time (upto around 5GB at time). its in constant use. it had 2 gigabit ports and is fairly cheap

[Recursion]

so are there any consumer routers that will give me the performance I need. My currecnt linksys is not up to the task but I have seen other pretty standard linksys routers doing the task but mine a more expensive model would not.

[Bios24]

Best consumer router right now IMHO is the Linksys WRT54GS with 3rd party firmware.

The next (big) step up is a smoothwall/IPCop router with you're choice of switch and wireless AP. This is the best bang-for-the-buck choice, as you can support literally hundreds of clients and connections with it.

Alternatively you can buy an enterprise router from Cisco or etc, I think the wireless ones start at $300. This can be a simple solution if you have the money, but wouldn't provide any more performance than a properly configured smoothwall/IPCop configuration.

[Recursion]

Best consumer router right now IMHO is the Linksys WRT54GS with 3rd party firmware.

The next (big) step up is a smoothwall/IPCop router with you're choice of switch and wireless AP. This is the best bang-for-the-buck choice, as you can support literally hundreds of clients and connections with it.

Alternatively you can buy an enterprise router from Cisco or etc, I think the wireless ones start at $300. This can be a simple solution if you have the money, but wouldn't provide any more performance than a properly configured smoothwall/IPCop configuration.

I have the 54GS with openwrt and dont find it to be fast enogh for my needs. My internet is 30/2 and it will only allow me to download at 2.5Mbs. We have tried alot of tweaks but havent found anything yet,