Vista

[AOpen]

i have heard alot of vista but no little about it, for one, is it going to be worth the upgrade compared to xp, i know it will have dx 10, and then i know it will have alot of DRM stuff on it. so should i wait for it to come out before i decide what to get for my next system, or just stick with xp?

[roYal]

It depends on several factors on what you should do. Financial situation, current computer, etc... Is your current computer serving you well enough so that you wouldn't mind waiting? Do you make enough money where buying a new computer right now will be fine? The thing is, you can easily build a Vista-ready PC right now and run Vista fine on a DX9 card. You always have the option of upgrading to a DX10 video card later on down the road.

You can check out this thread to view OCforum user's opinions on Vista:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=463353

A very good Vista review site that I visit on a frequent basis is Paul Thurrot's website who is a Windows IT Pro magazine editor. Check out his site at this url:
http://www.winsupersite.com/vista/

[madcow235]

The added features of vista are quite nice. There really is nothing about it that isnt an improvement, or the same, as XP. If you like XP chances are you will like Vista

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

I wouldn't be the first to try vista. Give it a chance for people to figure it out. Bugs will be found, more hardware/software will become available, system improements will be made, and most of the **** people hate will be cracked, fixed, or worked around.

From my impressions, it sounds like they've loaded it with lots of processor stealing eye candy, they've added plenty of digital rights restrictions, and because of this, it's harder to get decient hardware.

[broken_Naols]

Theres a Beta version, avalabe to the public. Try it for yourself. it expires in june 2007, so you have pleanty of time to give it a shot. ;)

[TranceBear]

i have heard alot of vista but no little about it, for one, is it going to be worth the upgrade compared to xp, i know it will have dx 10, and then i know it will have alot of DRM stuff on it. so should i wait for it to come out before i decide what to get for my next system, or just stick with xp?

Other than the known benifits of having a truley all-in-one OS, there are the issues of installing it right now. It is in beta form but from what I have played with it is worth every headache I have encountered in installing it. Think of XP, Media Center 2005, Tablet PC and true 64bit support all in one OS. You can't find a better bang for the buck. Pricing seems to be around $200 for the Ultimate version but these are just rumors.

[Captain Newbie]

Other than the known benifits of having a truley all-in-one OS, there are the issues of installing it right now.
What?

You think irrevocably integrating things into an OS is a *good* idea? :bang head :bang head I'll let you off on this one but you're incorrect. A properly designed operating system doesn't need any integrated applications. Run a desktop *nix for a week doing your basic office + web surfing functions and you'll see that there's a right way and a wrong way to do things (and that Microsoft is usually doing it wrong by building straight into the OS). What if I want to use my own media player? My own web browser? My own ... I'm screwed.

As for -64 support, I happen to be using an OS that does most of what you've described pretty much out of the box anyway. Moot.

Load up Vista in vmware and try it :cool:

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

Theres a Beta version, avalabe to the public. Try it for yourself. it expires in june 2007, so you have pleanty of time to give it a shot. ;)
If I had a spare computer lying around that could meet the requirements, I would give it a try for myself. My roommate's running it as a dual OS, so that's how I've seen it.
Other than the known benifits of having a truley all-in-one OS, there are the issues of installing it right now. It is in beta form but from what I have played with it is worth every headache I have encountered in installing it. Think of XP, Media Center 2005, Tablet PC and true 64bit support all in one OS. You can't find a better bang for the buck. Pricing seems to be around $200 for the Ultimate version but these are just rumors.
I have to agree with Captain Noob. An All-in-one OS is bad news, not to mention, this type of thinking is what keeps getting microsoft in trouble.

you HAVE to have IE, you HAVE to have WMP installed, It comes with mediacenter, which consists of about 5 apps running in the background. All these integrated apps means: 1) more programs running in the bg. 2) more bulk items you have to manually uninstall (if possible). 3) more control of MS based applications, MS based hardware, and Digital Rights.

The best operating systems are just operating systems. I don't want it coming with crappy email readers, crappy browsers, and Gigabytes of crappy software that I have to uninstall/disable/workaround so that I can run MY favorite applications.

[Sorin]

All in one is good for the average idiot that doesn't know jack. Myself, I REALLY don't like how a 3GB DVD turns into 10GB worth of files. Yeah it's beta, but it's not like the install is going to get that much smaller, if at all. Media Center? I don't need that. And what the hell is a tablet PC? Don't have one, don't need one. Don't mind IE being there, some stuff doesn't work right, or doesn't work at all with other browsers, so grudgingly keep that. WMP I don't have a problem with. I can't be arsed to research what the "best" 3rd party media player is and try it out.

Anyways, what they do need, is an enthusiast, or performance version. Not recommended for the average user because it comes with a bare minimum of stuff. It omits all the things this crowd doesn't use or wants to get rid of, since we have our own solutions to everything anyways, and probably laying around on a CD, DVD, spare drive, or whatever. .

As it stands though, i was reading somewhere, though not on any official Microsoft site that I've seen yet, that Business, Ultimate, and I think some other version, won't have activation. That would be my reason for getting one of those....but I really, REALLY, REALLY don't like a 10GB installed OS.

[roYal]

What they need, is to have ONE Vista version, not like 10 different retail versions. There could be a menu at the beginning of the install asking you what features you would like to install. This of course should be allowed to be taken care of in Nlite or a regular unattended installation file.

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

damn, 10GB for an OS? That I didn't know. I guess that might say something about the resources it's going to take up.

You're right, All-in-one is fine for the average idiot who doesn't care about "aftermarket" programs, etc. The only thing I imagine would redeem vista is if the add/remove windows components is better than XP. For example, XP loads all sorts of **** in the program files directory. Even if you choose not to install something, the files are still copied over. I disselected Outlook Express, Windows media player, most of the games, etc, but if you go into program files, the programs and extentions are still there and locked from deletion.

[Captain Newbie]

damn, 10GB for an OS? That I didn't know. I guess that might say something about the resources it's going to take up.

You're right, All-in-one is fine for the average idiot who doesn't care about "aftermarket" programs, etc. The only thing I imagine would redeem vista is if the add/remove windows components is better than XP. For example, XP loads all sorts of **** in the program files directory. Even if you choose not to install something, the files are still copied over. I disselected Outlook Express, Windows media player, most of the games, etc, but if you go into program files, the programs and extentions are still there and locked from deletion.
Well, there's prevented from deletion, and then there's prevented from deletion ;) Nothing a little rm -f from a liveCD can't fix, but then the thing would die.

[Burdman27911]

From what I've heard, it will be a pretty good OS... but there are ofcourse many things to be ironed out IMO. I'm going to put some unix based platform on my main PC and turn it into a file server, and use XP on my new conroe system until I upgrade to dx10 cards most likely.

I'm guessing in whatever case, I'll wait at least 6 months or so before buyiung vista. Giving myself a few months to decide on prices (and choose between those stupid 10 versions) and some time for proper drivers to be made.

[dicecca112]

I'm a beta tester for the Windows Connection program, so I can get the latest build from what I hear has a lot of improvements over the beta they released which I didn't use. Over the next two weeks once I get the computer situation settled, I'm gonna install and maybe submit a review to the frontpage. I'm a 80% nix user, ubuntu to be exact, so I'm biased to a point. But I'll be sure to let you guys what I think

[TranceBear]

What?

You think irrevocably integrating things into an OS is a *good* idea? :bang head :bang head I'll let you off on this one but you're incorrect. A properly designed operating system doesn't need any integrated applications. Run a desktop *nix for a week doing your basic office + web surfing functions and you'll see that there's a right way and a wrong way to do things (and that Microsoft is usually doing it wrong by building straight into the OS). What if I want to use my own media player? My own web browser? My own ... I'm screwed.

As for -64 support, I happen to be using an OS that does most of what you've described pretty much out of the box anyway. Moot.

Load up Vista in vmware and try it :cool:

That is just my opinion. Not everybody in here thinks Microsoft's only mission is to screw you over. Most of the average people out there needs an all-in-one OS to get things done. And we may not agree with this that is what MS has to do to satisfy demand. There will be a stripped down version for people who want to customize it to their likes.

Remember that Vista is still a long way off to being finished bit when it is it will work right out of the box just like your OS.

Once again this is my opinion.

I worked for Microsoft for many years as a hardware developer and I have truley heard every bad comment on every OS that MS has made. They are not perfect but they do a good job on giving the majority of people what they want. This is whay Gates is the richest man around.

There are unique threads for MS bashing, you may find more people there agreeable with your stance.

[kd7aze]

There will be a stripped down version for people who want to customize it to their likes.
Actually there won't. There's a version which does not include the BitLocker, Tablet PC, and Media Center software, however it still includes all of the real issues people are discussing -- IE7, WMP, etc.

[TranceBear]

Actually there won't. There's a version which does not include the BitLocker, Tablet PC, and Media Center software, however it still includes all of the real issues people are discussing -- IE7, WMP, etc.

Since you seem to know this as fact you must be on the Vista team. Can you answer all the questions we have about Vista?

Now back to reality. I worked for MS during Vista development and when I quote something about Vista that I know for sure this is coming straight from the source, not something I read in a blog or forum. There will be a stripped down version available that will include less add-ons than you stated above. This fact is available on the public MS website. Any more details then I am bound by my non-disclosure agreement with MS.

[snafumaster]

To try and get this one back on track, I think that roYal had it correct in his initial reply. There are many factors that you need to consider, and those he listed are a good start. Deciding now wether you will buy it or not seems a bit early. But that's one of the great things...you can get it now without buying it and keep it legitimately for a year.

No harm, No Foul. If you don't have another machine to install it on all you need is another hard drive, a 20GB will do fine for testing and you can get one of those cheap. There are a bunch of other ways too, but this one seems to be the easiest for the curious-but-not-so-savy.

[Ninety-9 SE-L]

That is just my opinion. Not everybody in here thinks Microsoft's only mission is to screw you over. Most of the average people out there needs an all-in-one OS to get things done. And we may not agree with this that is what MS has to do to satisfy demand. There will be a stripped down version for people who want to customize it to their likes...
It's not that they're out to get you in development of the OS. I think most of today's distrust lies in 2 facts. 1) Microsoft sides with many of the entertainment industry's interests in using over-the-top and highly controversial methods of controlling the consumer and how he/she enjoys their media, and 2) Many of the products they develop favor a very small monopolized group of hardware and software manufacturers giving consumers a very controlled and limited choice.

The development of an all-around, fully loaded OS sounds sweet to the average consumer who most likely shops for their computer at Dell, most smart people would also agree it's a very good business plan. The problem is, there's no choice, there are like 534 versions ov Vista coming out soon and none of them favor more tech savy people like us. They're loaded down with add ons and animated search assistants, and trial software, and programs too elementary for you and I to even consider using, but worst of all, you can't get rid of them, they're stuck into every installation package and it'll be in your start menu until the day you die.

Let's take a car company. This company produces 10 car models. All of them are mildly styled, average horsepower, decient fuel economy, 800 airbags, and can easily hold all your kids and belongings. It's the perfect car for Daily Driver Dave. Believe it or not, however, some of us like "sports cars", cars that put you in the back of your seat, cars that stick to the road and corner like a roller coaster. Go to any local dealer, tell me if you see something like that, I'll say no way, unless you find yourself in the market for a Pagani. Even the best Sports cars you find out there are so loaded down to appeal to grandma, you can't even even call it a sports car. Do you think a Vette needs adjustable foot petals? You think a 350Z needs 350lbs of sound deadening? God forbid grandpa confuses the brake and gas when he's backing his Corvette out of the garage, god forbid you have to hear the sound of the air when you're driving your Ford GT to the supermarket.

It just starts to **** me off that every company in the world is turning towards the masses and turning away from those who stay true to the name.