R152, R134A, and R402 available at Fry's Electronics

[Moto7451]

Hey guys,

After seeing a thread here where someone used a canned air duster filled with R134A to fill his system, I decided to see if Fry's Electronics had anything like that. Sure enough, they carried the same cans of R134A (labeled R134 Plus which I believe is just another name for R134A) as were used for that project. They also carry the R402 and R152 cans (made by the same company which I can't remember the name of for the life of me.....). You can find them in the isle with all the canned air dusters. They come in 10oz cans and cost ~7-8 bucks. I figure thats a bargain compared to what an hour's fee for an HVAC guy would be but I don't really know.

Have fun!

[XeonStrikeForce]

R-402 ? what can is that from?

[NoL]

And can you get a picture? how do you access one of these cans?

[greenmaji]

You said R402.. that gets attention ;)

Could you list what product that was (the intended purpose of the product duster or freezespray) the brand bla bla bla would be nice :D

Just saying it's at Fry's isnt really going to help alot of us, I know BC Canada and Kentucky don't have such a fancy store LOL :p

[XeonStrikeForce]

Ya most our stores are way above lol, but they mainly only use the R-134a Cans

[greenmaji]

how do you access one of these cans?

Someone knows ;)

http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=4413892&postcount=14

XSF.. I didn't quite catch what that part was called, the tap you used, could you illaberate?

[NoL]

Hahahahahahaha.... Its a can tap for automobiles, I didnt think it would fit.

[greenmaji]

Hahahahahahaha.... Its a can tap for automobiles, I didnt think it would fit.

Link?

I think I've seen those in like Wal-mart or Meijer.. ROFL :beer:

[Pf.Farnsworth]

402a? pure? Seems fishy. You need a lic for it I dont think they would just sell it as air dusters. Also its alot more expencive then 134a and where is no reason to use 402a in air dusters which makes it even more fishier. Got some pictures?

[NoL]

No such thing as pure anything, especially not a r4**.

[Moto7451]

Its sold as Freeze Spray. The 134A is the same as XSF's. All three products are made by M.G. Chemicals. Maybe I'll go over tomorrow and buy a can of each or at least take some pictures. They were a bit low on the R402 variant yesterday so I hope they either restocked or there are some still left. Is R152 any good for phase change?

[Moto7451]

You said R402.. that gets attention ;)

Could you list what product that was (the intended purpose of the product duster or freezespray) the brand bla bla bla would be nice :D

Just saying it's at Fry's isnt really going to help alot of us, I know BC Canada and Kentucky don't have such a fancy store LOL :p

Fry's Electronics is the same company that owns outpost.com ;). However, they tend to stock different products in the retail store than they do online and for different prices. They bought out some of the Egghead stores after Egghead went bankrupt (at one point they were going to buy all of Egghead's retail division for 10 Million).

Store Locations (http://frys.com/localframe.html). Many of their stores have a theme. The Burbank Store (the one I go to) is considered the best by a lot of people because of its selection and the cool 1950s-1960s science fiction movie theme. Its filled with Giant Ant models and F86s as well as melted jeeps and they play sci fi movies every so often on a jumbo-tron screen. It's a fun visit if you ever get the chance.

[greenmaji]

This is M.G. chemicals web-page for there coolers and dusters.. 402A isnt there..
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/dusters.html

BUT there is a page on a product that is "super cold 134A" and 403A is in the product name.
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/403a.html

The temps they are claiming are a bit out of reach for 403A (-51C)
It would however be crazy better then 152A or 134A :D

If you could manage to clean and dry bbq propane on the other hand (freeze a recovery tank with dry ice and put a seires of filter driers between it your bbq propane tank ;) ), its speculated to have traces of ethne and possibly butane in it that makes it perform a little better then stock 290 wich is pretty darned close to 403A performance as it is.. :shrug:

BAA.. the cans would be so much more simple :D thanks.. they should sell this stuff online somewere just need to hunt it down :thup: :D

I attached the refigerant chart I check gasses with so you can see how bad strait 134 and 152 really are ;)

[XeonStrikeForce]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/R-12-Pro-Dispensing-Valve-1-4-Male-Flare-w-36-Hose_W0QQitemZ7910732054QQihZ019QQcategoryZ46094QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

It works but as I noted you must modify the can first! I explained it in my thread.

But this would negate the needed mod > http://cgi.ebay.ca/Freon-Can-Tapper-Tool-UNIVERSAL-KIT-8015_W0QQitemZ7945177532QQihZ019QQcategoryZ46094QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

[greenmaji]

But this would negate the needed mod > http://cgi.ebay.ca/Freon-Can-Tapper-Tool-UNIVERSAL-KIT-8015_W0QQitemZ7945177532QQihZ019QQcategoryZ46094QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

That's pretty pimp, it taps the can from the side :thup:

And the seller rocks :D

btw.. 402B is the 152A super product :shrug: need to go check my chart again :p

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/402b.html

[Moto7451]

I checked today and they're almost out of R152 and they've changed their UPCs... looks like all they're carrying now is the R134.

I read the back of the R152 can and it said to not use it near an open flame. It said to instead use "R134Plus or R402." Could it have been a typo and Fry's made a UPC expecting it to come in? Maybe they meant anybody's R402? I assumed that when I saw empty shelves that this was either old news and phase changers had eaten up the supply or they were about to stock it. The labels were brand new and clean, unlike all of the other duster labels. (I guess people with dirty hands when they go into that isle or they almost never change stock)

Or could MG Chem chemicals just pulled the product? Is R402 RoHS compliant? That seems to be their major selling point for R152 and R134.

I have some pixelated pictures for latter (when I figure out how to get them off of my camera phone). Sorry for the letdown guys.

Also, is R134 easily attainable in the US? I found tons of it for sale at Autozone today (bought a heater core). Big cans too. It was my understanding that you needed to be certified to handle/purchase the stuff normally. It was being sold as an A/C fill up.

[XeonStrikeForce]

R-134a is open game in the USA with out a cert or EPA thingy, Not the same in Canada where the only way to get R-134a is from air dusters or ordering it from the states.

[greenmaji]

Heater core? How are you going to go sub-ambiant with that ;)

[Moto7451]

Oh you'll see ;). Actually I'm aiming for Dew-Point but I could always take a trip down sub-ambient lane. Actually, a question on that. When using dielectric grease, do you put it in the holes for the pins so that it covers the contacts (i.e. the pins have a layer of the grease between themselves and the sockets contacts)? I've always thought that would lead to either a bad connection or shorting.

As for the R402, I'm going to keep looking around. It could just be a typo (well two typos) but ya never know.

[greenmaji]

I did mention that the 152 super duster had 402 in the name (and temps claimed more like 402B then 152)

DE isnt conductive.. no shorting you can plug it all up. Its there to keep condensation away from the contacts/pins/whatever depending on the socket (socket-T has no pins :p )

good to know your trying hard enough ;)

[Moto7451]

The R152 duster is listed as being a hazard when used around an open flame which I don't believe is a property of R402. A little googling revealed that R152 is 1,1 Difluoroethane, a fluorinated hydrocarbon. It has a boiling point of -13°C as opposed to R134's -26°C.

[greenmaji]

402A's is round -49C IIRC.

Thats what Im not getting about this product
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/403a.html
Thats not possible with regular R134A so I'm thinking they called it "super cold R134A" for those that know what R134A is :p

[Moto7451]

Hmmm, odd. Could it be a mix of gasses then? What were XeonStrikeForce's evap temps like?

[XeonStrikeForce]

lol it is a catalog number the "40Xx" Nothing more, the two refrigerants are good ol R-152a and R-134a.

[greenmaji]

Yes.. but... whats up with the -51C? and what the heck is a "super" any refigerant other then a different refigerant?

[Moto7451]

What are your evap temps like XSF?

[XeonStrikeForce]

Haven't got the R-134a charged yet, just using propane right now to get all the oil moved around, once the final heat exchanger is built I'll be changing the oil and F/D and charging the 134a 13bucks total here for a 10oz Can! too expensive to use on a simple test coil.

[Moto7451]

Ah ok. Do let us know. Hopefully you'll end up with some crazy evap temp that will make us wonder how much R134A is in the Super Cold R134 Plus :D.

[XeonStrikeForce]

lol They have a habbit of overstating things, that is most likely the evap pressure in a vacuum, so technicly they are telling the truth, but not wholy.

Right now I'm in a bit of a financiel vacuum <_< so not much happening with me ATM.

[greenmaji]

Hmm.. I wonder how much vacume you would need to get R134A to hit -51C (I can't remember were the preasure calculator is that I used to check these things out with :( )

[Niku-Sama]

just out of curiosity, some of thes recharge cans do have mineral oils in them, do they screw your guys's equipment up or does it help like in a car?

[NoL]

Can easily do both.

[XeonStrikeForce]

If they are R-134a they most certainly do not have mineral oil in them as R-134a + Mineral = Wax as with R-152a = acid

Only POE oil for them guys or Alkylbenzen or how ever it's spealt

[Niku-Sama]

well ok i am used to R-12 in old cars in which a mineral oil is used for compressor lube i didnt know that changed.

so ok lemme reword it, will lube hurt your equipment?
(why does that sound naughty?)

[greenmaji]

your compresser is already lubed :p

[XeonStrikeForce]

Green, in car systems there is heavy leakage, so most recharge cans do indeed contain extra oil. Even R-134a Cans for cars will oft contain Oil albeit small amounts only it is POE rather then Mineral.

You can get around this by slowly Vapour charging this way the refrigerant boils off leaving the lubricant behind.

Due to the leakages within car systems any one who still charges them with R-12 is a disgrace and an idiot he is destroying our ozone and needs their heads slapped through a steel bridge support! No point in having A/C when it is deadly to simply go out side same with money pretty dam useless when the planet is dead, so If you have an AC with R-12, get it retrofitted properly and enjoy (I recommend R416a (MP49)

[Niku-Sama]

you havent seen the studies about r12 aparently but thats ok my system does not leak and theres no conversion kit for it so no need for any of that.

any use of an old empty fill can of r134a? came off a recharge machine but its empty. i was going to use it for something but if its a use for something else i thought i would ask.

[greenmaji]

Automotive systems do a fair extra bit of leaking (the compressors are not sealed as well as non moving systems).. and all systems leak to a minor extent over time. To say your system doesn't leak is not accurate in the slightest actually :-/

XSF.. whats in a conversion kit?
New sized fittings ROFL :p J/K

[Niku-Sama]

no how ever like you said nothing is leak proof, compared to the newer cars that come in to work from an auction which are much newer mind you, alot of them dont have working AC. and a conversion kit for a car usually involves mounting brackets and other such gadgets to make it fit properly. a r134a compressor is going to be alot smaller than whats on my car now. i could put r134a in my exisitng system but that would be silly because for all i know other than the rotting out from the reaction of the mineral oil it could explode. with my car you wouldnt need to do any thing to the ac it would explode any way if some one else were driving it.

my cars ~20 years old, when we got it it was still full of r12 but the clutch seized on the compressor so a junk yard one of those took it to my uncle paid him a case of beer he sucked the old stuff out recycled it there and refilled my system and its been 5 or 6 years now.

but at the same time if we are going to get into harmful refrigerants r134a is just as bad as r12 and r406a is a WHOLE lot worse than them both, so what ever, i have said what i want and thats that. so if i need to be "slapped arround by a steel beam" then so be it i am not about to fix what isnt broke especially when theres no better alternative out there.

[XeonStrikeForce]

you havent seen the studies about r12 aparently but thats ok my system does not leak and theres no conversion kit for it so no need for any of that.

any use of an old empty fill can of r134a? came off a recharge machine but its empty. i was going to use it for something but if its a use for something else i thought i would ask.


LOL I know very well the studies of R-12, and yes it does shred Ozone and is deadly if burnt, you must have missed some thing rather big if you have read the various studies and didn't realize this & to be honest R-134a isn't all that it was made out to be, more apt would be R-152a and or propane, I say propane should be the only legal refrigerant for cars as it is both cold and totally environmentally safe along with no danger to the driver (The gas tank hold a hell of allot more then the A/C)

[XeonStrikeForce]

no how ever like you said nothing is leak proof, compared to the newer cars that come in to work from an auction which are much newer mind you, alot of them dont have working AC. and a conversion kit for a car usually involves mounting brackets and other such gadgets to make it fit properly. a r134a compressor is going to be alot smaller than whats on my car now. i could put r134a in my exisitng system but that would be silly because for all i know other than the rotting out from the reaction of the mineral oil it could explode. with my car you wouldnt need to do any thing to the ac it would explode any way if some one else were driving it.

my cars ~20 years old, when we got it it was still full of r12 but the clutch seized on the compressor so a junk yard one of those took it to my uncle paid him a case of beer he sucked the old stuff out recycled it there and refilled my system and its been 5 or 6 years now.

but at the same time if we are going to get into harmful refrigerants r134a is just as bad as r12 and r406a is a WHOLE lot worse than them both, so what ever, i have said what i want and thats that. so if i need to be "slapped arround by a steel beam" then so be it i am not about to fix what isnt broke especially when theres no better alternative out there.

You have no idea what you're talking about this is now clear.

A conversion kit has new seals and a fitting adaptor along with a new oil charge and expansion orifice, R-134a is thousands time better for the environment then R-12, be for you make flat out wrong statements try learning about it. If you are too lazy to do a retro fit then charge with MP49, it is a direct drop in for R-12 and no where near as bad, or R-416a is another top choice of engineers as an R-12 substitute.

Your total lack of understanding in automotive A/Cs dis qualifies you in making such statements, R134a runs with an ordinary R-12 compressor with out issue, they replace the oil with PAG after a simple flush, and a change in expansion orifice, and ports to 1/2" SAE; technically that is not needed and you only incur a small efficiency hit by not redoing the orifice.

but at the same time if we are going to get into harmful refrigerants r134a is just as bad as r12

That is flat out wrong, do you even have any idea or concept of the chemical differences? do you even understand why it is bad for the environment??

And yes there is a conversion kit for it, it is quite simple realy, they realy don't have to do more then flush it, charge the new oil, then fill with R-134a don, or at request they will do it with R-416a and this way not even the oil needs to be changed and it will actualy perform better, and no they do not change the compressor, unless it is in some way defective.

[XeonStrikeForce]

As for your last question build a recovery machine, and use the bottle for the recoverd refrigerant

[adamwinn]

Good discussion, but I hope this doesn't deteriorate into flames. Its headin that way tho ;(

Simply put, there's always a 'study' to disprove another 'study'. The general consensus is that CFCs definitely can't be beneficial to the atmosphere, but its really about perspective, right? I mean, when you haven't had a tune-up in 50,000 miles and your car is burning as much oil as gas, the AC system doesn't really matter too much.

Regardless, I thought we were all supposed to be dead by now? Go back and take a look at some of the statements from the last 15 years about the hole in the ozone. "The world is going to be uninhabitable in 10 years!"

[Pf.Farnsworth]

Not all statment made are equality valid. This is not a valid argument.

[Niku-Sama]

...Your total lack of understanding in automotive A/Cs dis qualifies you in making such statements, R134a runs with an ordinary R-12 compressor with out issue, they replace the oil with PAG after a simple flush, and a change in expansion orifice, and ports to 1/2" SAE; technically that is not needed and you only incur a small efficiency hit by not redoing the orifice....


thats a flame if i have ever seen one.

well how about this, you go and ban every one of these things except your beloved propane and then give me a call.
when it comes to something like this i know more than to listen to some one on the internet that just shows up and starts in with all this mumbo jumbo nonsence. granted both of us are probally missing big things but i dont care, i'm going to continue to use r12 untill a decent replacment comes along thats doesent cost a fortune because i dont know your financial situation i cant afford to go and convert every ones car / ac unit / what ever else to something thats is supposedly safer.

edit: at the same time lets let this guy have his thread back if he even needs it any more. you got any more crap to flame me with pm it to me.

[XeonStrikeForce]

No it is not a flame, but fact you have demonstrated you do not understand A/C systems nor do you at all understand the problem with R-12, last I checked we call this unqualified. What I am stating there ARE cheap replacements, R-134a is certainly cheap, if you are looking for great performance with out doing a retro fit then MP49 is the winner, or R-416, both are a direct drop in and both actually out perform R-12 and are cheaper and more environmentally safe I gave you the names of some good cheap replacements! Thats your problem, you think you know more and ergo do not listen, I now see why you are still clueless about why and how R-12 is so damaging, I think that tells it all. I don't take things on the net at face value I check them out, but I most certainly listen, thats how I have learnt tons in my life from listening to teachers, technicians, Internet forums, so I suggest if you really want to start learning, start listening and cross checking things.

[greenmaji]

I have to agree, I saw no flame, seemed like a matter of fact way of saying it that was fairly blunt. I'm actually supprised at the restraint demonstrated.

The OP was just trying to be helpfull in pointing out some possibly new caned refigerants. We sort of came to the conclution that 402 and 403 were model numbers of the products :( too bad :)

[XeonStrikeForce]

When using refrigerants you should have some under standing of their properties more then just "it gets cold" type thinking, Go here and ask them about it > http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums, there is alote more to concider then the end tempiture and pressures. Easy is some times the worst of all ways of thinking, easy often ends in disaster, some thing worth doing is worth doing right.

I've seen R-12 and UV in action in a test Lab, and watching the Ozone levels drop and the chlorine radicals rise was rather interesting but when you think thats whats happening above us it isn't too pleasant of a thought.

FYI If we had continued dumping metric mega tons in the Atmosphere this planet would have been uninhabitable, thank fully we stopped for the most part and hope-fully stopped it; it is going to be a looooong time be for the current stuff has finished doing its damage and the remaining stuff is don, but hope fully every one uses their own survival instinct to see the reasons why not to use such damaging refrigerants, China will officially cease using it later 2007 or 2010 along with a great many other countries, this aut to tell you some thing, that even ones that don't care see it as bad enough to agree to stop using it.

A little thought goes a long way.

PS: I personaly love the physics and how easy R-12 is to use, but no matter how much I love it, I love being able to go out side with out needing SPF 200,000Sunblock much more then R-12 (Ozone is what stops you from becoming extraKrispy fried when you go out side, less Ozone faster you burn, more ozone, slower you burn, not burning = good IMO)

[greenmaji]

That looks like the fourm I found and pointed out for you XSF :D

[XeonStrikeForce]

itis :), I've been there since, much more so then thees ones, far more apt for my peroposes lol