P4 2.8E w/2 or 3 sticks pc3200?

[Helius]

Hey there!

I just bought 2 pieces of Mushkin 512MB PC3200 RAM adding to my current Samsung 512MB PC3200.
And my motherboard, with the latest BIOS, can only run 3 sticks of 512MB Single Channel at DDR333. (I even tried setting the divider to run at 400, but it goes down to 266)

The dilemma is should I run 3 sticks of 512MB Single Channel 5:4 with the picture posted.

Or should I run the 1GB of Mushkin Dual Channel overclocked ~220MHz 1:1.

People say DDR333 is not much difference from DDR400, but Sandra Lite shows that DDR333 (~2900MB/s) is more than half of DDR400(~4800MB/s) bandwidth...

Rig in sig. Thanks for replying.
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51761&stc=1&d=1153694057

[microfire]

Run 2 sticks. With 3 sticks you also lose dual channel unless you add a fourth stick.

[Helius]

O ya, I play Games(CS 1.6, Starcraft, etc.), use Photoshop, web surf, MSN, AIM, etc.

[batboy]

Yes, run the two matched Mushkin RAM in dual channel or else you'll lose half your memory bandwidth.

[Helius]

Alright I guess the extra 512MB won't help... Thanks guys!

[caddy359]

Using single channel with 1.5 gigs of ram wouldn't lose you half your memory bandwidth dual channel only gives at most a 10% gain in bandwidth usually its more along the lines of 5 - 6 % gain so id say try running system tests with both setups and find out the numbers your self rather than losing 512 mbs in an instant - just a idea

http://www.pctechguide.com/14Memory_Dual-channel_DDR.htm

http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Memory/Dual-Channel/

[Max0r]

With 2.8E's and other 478 similar chips.. most definately you will suffer a significant performance hit by using all 3 sticks. A 54 MHz difference in RAM freq is HUGE with such a system!

[Helius]

Using single channel with 1.5 gigs of ram wouldn't lose you half your memory bandwidth dual channel only gives at most a 10% gain in bandwidth usually its more along the lines of 5 - 6 % gain so id say try running system tests with both setups and find out the numbers your self rather than losing 512 mbs in an instant - just a idea

http://www.pctechguide.com/14Memory_Dual-channel_DDR.htm

http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Memory/Dual-Channel/
Cause with more than 2 dimms on the 865PE mobos they FORCE you to run under DDR400. So i chose DDR333 and overclocked it to 250FSB. Ran Sandra mem bandwidth = ~2900MB/s

Dual Channel 512MB 220FSB. Ran Sandra mem bandwidth = ~5200MB/s

[caddy359]

yep read the second review

I ran the Sandra memory bandwidth benchmark.

Both of these tests gave nearly the same results. The difference in performance between the dual channel and single channel was high. You can gain about 64 percent more memory bandwidth running in dual channel mode. Theoretically it should have been 100 percent. It should have doubled the speed, but this is the real world. Remember that this is just a totally synthetic benchmark. It really doesn’t tell anything other than what is available to be used by the system. The following tests will show how that extra bandwidth is used. Based on this, there should be a noticeable difference between single and dual channel.


Next: Gaming - read on - http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Memory/Dual-Channel/

http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Memory/Dual-Channel/3/

and if you read my original post you'll will see that i didn't in anyway contend the speed issue just the loss of supposed 50% memory bandwidth

[batboy]

Caddy, while it isn't quite losing 1/2 the bandwidth, it certainly is a huge hit in performance. I suggest you do some testing for yourself. Like try Super Pi or PCmark04.

[nd4spdbh2]

Cause with more than 2 dimms on the 865PE mobos they FORCE you to run under DDR400. So i chose DDR333 and overclocked it to 250FSB. Ran Sandra mem bandwidth = ~2900MB/s

Dual Channel 512MB 220FSB. Ran Sandra mem bandwidth = ~5200MB/s


TODALLY WRONG.... my gigabyte 865PE board runs 2x512 and 2x256 @ ddr400 no prob... i dont kno what ur talkin bout.

personally i would grab another 512gb stick so you can have the benefit of over 1gb of ram and dual channel.... but dual channel is a must.

[Helius]

TODALLY WRONG.... my gigabyte 865PE board runs 2x512 and 2x256 @ ddr400 no prob... i dont kno what ur talkin bout.

personally i would grab another 512gb stick so you can have the benefit of over 1gb of ram and dual channel.... but dual channel is a must.
For my motherboard it will not allow more than 2 DIMM's running at DDR400 even if I set the divider to 400. I have the latest BIOS and I've tried rearranging the memory around. My motherboard enforces Performance Mode on once I put in the 3rd 512MB and disallows dual channel plus run @ DDR333 specs(or DDR266)

but maybe an extra stick of 512MB might allow it to run at PC3200, but I just spent money buying the Mushkin sticks, so my options are 2 or 3 sticks :S

[microfire]

This will settle it, direct from Intel.
Note: You can get the same results with the Intel 865 chipset by enabling PAT via software if your motherboard bios does not support or enable it by default.
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3073/patperformancechartmk6.jpg (http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3073/patperformancechartmk6.jpg)

[Max0r]

You guys are acting as if Dual Channel is the biggest factor here. It's NOT! Granted, it is a plus, but the biggest issue in this guy's system performance is the HUGE memory MHz difference between the two setups!

[nd4spdbh2]

You guys are acting as if Dual Channel is the biggest factor here. It's NOT! Granted, it is a plus, but the biggest issue in this guy's system performance is the HUGE memory MHz difference between the two setups!


so true... on my cs server i have pc2700 (333mhz) and the fsb of the processor is 266 (133x2 Athlon XP 2400) n e ways there was an option in the bios of my ****ty ECS mobo to allow the ram to run at PC2700 (166x2)... the performance diff was actually quite amazing for the extra 66mhz but if you think bout it 66 / 266 = a 25% improvement on theroticial memory bandwidth and MHZ.... weird thing tho cpuz shows where a divider is suppost to be as FSB + 33mhz

EDIT: on the above graph what is "Ranks per dimm" and how do i find my "Ranks per dimm" and how do i tell what "mode" i am in... thnx

[Helius]

I don't know about the 'ranks', but the MAT/PAT should be in your BIOS, whether it is enabled or not. Normal, Fast, Ultra-Fast, etc. Supposedly MAT/PAT should help your bandwidth up to 10% or something along the lines when enabled and you are overclocking. But I think one should only turn it on when s/he overclocks and system becomes unstable.

edit: O yeah, I removed the extra stick of 512MB and it seems as if I load programs, Windows, everything else a bit faster, but not as smooth.

[caddy359]

Ok as suggested i did some test regarding dual channel mode or single channel mode performance differences.

I use my main pc at stock speed first in dual channel mode - then the same set of test in single channel mode. the test i used were

PCmark04 - Super PI - Aquamark3d and 3Dmark03 the results are as follows

PCmark 04 dual mode = 3409 Single Mode = 3428
AquaMark3D dual mode = 46.124 Single Mode = 45.407
SuperPI dual mode = 54 secs Single Mode = 56 secs
3Dmark03 dual mode = 7981 Single Mode = 7935

So overall a slight loss of performance can be noted but still within the 10% and probably within the 5-6% i originally stated.

http://roguesgallery.mine.nu/memtest/dmm/ dual channel result pics
http://roguesgallery.mine.nu/memtest/smm/ single channel result pics

[Helius]

Ok as suggested i did some test regarding dual channel mode or single channel mode performance differences.

I use my main pc at stock speed first in dual channel mode - then the same set of test in single channel mode. the test i used were

PCmark04 - Super PI - Aquamark3d and 3Dmark03 the results are as follows

PCmark 04 dual mode = 3409 Single Mode = 3428
AquaMark3D dual mode = 46.124 Single Mode = 45.407
SuperPI dual mode = 54 secs Single Mode = 56 secs
3Dmark03 dual mode = 7981 Single Mode = 7935

So overall a slight loss of performance can be noted but still within the 10% and probably within the 5-6% i originally stated.

http://roguesgallery.mine.nu/memtest/dmm/ dual channel result pics
http://roguesgallery.mine.nu/memtest/smm/ single channel result pics
Can you run Sandra with the Memory Bandwidth test and compare them as well? I think there will be a difference because for me: Single Channel 1GB: 2730MB/s; Dual Channel: 4300MB/s

edit: Oooo nice computer =) and monitor

[caddy359]

he he he
yeh there is a large stated difference but as i pointed out in that review its only a estimation of what dual memory bandwidth would give you not a real world test such as gaming or 3dmarking where its actually used

testing now

both in that dir as i didn't want to flood the board with loads of pics hope thats ok

http://roguesgallery.mine.nu/memtest/

[batboy]

Well, it's been a long time since I compared single channel vs. dual channel and that was 2X256 vs. 1X512. I could not find my notes, but I "remember" it as being a significant difference. The old test was on an Abit IC7 with an overclocked 2.4C.

Decided to do another round of testing and the results were a bit different than I expected. I used my "green" signature rig, except I was running at my everyday summer O/C of 4.2 gig (264 FSB). It's hot and this milder O/C uses less vcore. The RAM is 4 sticks of matched OCZ PC2-4200 using the 1:1 ratio and 3-2-2-6 timings. Everything was exactly the same in all tests except for the number of RAM sticks.

1X512 single channel
Sandra memory bandwidth: 3858/3853 MB/s
Super Pi 1M: 32 seconds
PCmark04: 8628
3Dmark06: 6090

2X512 dual channel
Sandra memory bandwidth: 6465/6453 MB/s
Super Pi 1M: 30 seconds
PCmark04: 8808
3Dmark06: 6107

3X512 single channel
Sandra memory bandwidth: 3826/3923 MB/s
Super Pi 1M: 31 seconds
PCmark04: 8716
3Dmark06: 6098

4X512 dual channel
Sandra memory bandwidth: 6222/6262 MB/s
Super Pi 1M: 31 seconds
PCmark04: 8722
3Dmark06: 6106

Hmmm, what does this mean? Dunno, but looks like there isn't as much of a difference as I originally thought. It's interesting that the best results were using 2X512. I'm sure if we were using some extremely memory intensive program, there would be a bigger difference between single vs. dual channel.

[Helius]

Darn, why won't my motherboard run the sticks at PC3200! :@ Maybe I should send MSI an email to tell them to update the BIOS lol! but I doubt they will do anything about it.

[microfire]

Ranks per dimm is if the memory is single (one rank) or double sided (two ranks).
Each dimm of the 4 dimm slots has 2 ranks (8 ranks total).
Double side memory bandwidth is up ~8% than single sided memory
Single sided memory may have all the chips on one side or 4 chips per side, both are still seen as single sided to the motherboard.
If all dimm slots are filled with double sided memory, then best performance is obtain as the percentage of bandwidth increases yet again over 2 dual channel dimm slots with double sided memory. Keep in mind that PAT must be this enabled for this to be effective, some motherboards with disable PAT when all slots are filled or disable PAT if overclocked above 200MHz. Overclocking with all banks filled can be tricky
I am lucky enough to modify and tweak to a stable 225MHz 2-2-2-6 with all dimms filled using double sided memory. PAT is fully enabled as well as some other reserved options enabled.
When looking for your true memory bandwidth, make sure it is unbuffered, this is your real horsepower.
You have just brought 2 pieces of Mushkin 512MB PC3200 RAM, use it. If this is not enough, then add enougher 2 sticks for a total of 4.
1GB should be plently still today, otherwise trade it back for a 2GB kit if you intend to overclock with stability.
Get rid of you old Samsung stick.

[Helius]

Ranks per dimm is if the memory is single (one rank) or double sided (two ranks).
Each dimm of the 4 dimm slots has 2 ranks (8 ranks total).
Double side memory bandwidth is up ~8% than single sided memory
Single sided memory may have all the chips on one side or 4 chips per side, both are still seen as single sided to the motherboard.
If all dimm slots are filled with double sided memory, then best performance is obtain as the percentage of bandwidth increases yet again over 2 dual channel dimm slots with double sided memory. Keep in mind that PAT must be this enabled for this to be effective, some motherboards with disable PAT when all slots are filled or disable PAT if overclocked above 200MHz. Overclocking with all banks filled can be tricky
I am lucky enough to modify and tweak to a stable 225MHz 2-2-2-6 with all dimms filled using double sided memory. PAT is fully enabled as well as some other reserved options enabled.
When looking for your true memory bandwidth, make sure it is unbuffered, this is your real horsepower.
You have just brought 2 pieces of Mushkin 512MB PC3200 RAM, use it. If this is not enough, then add enougher 2 sticks for a total of 4.
1GB should be plently still today, otherwise trade it back for a 2GB kit if you intend to overclock with stability.
Get rid of you old Samsung stick.
I'm gonna give the Samsung stick to my friend and maybe in the future if I have money, I'll buy 2x 1GB PC3200 sticks or just buy a new computer. XD

[microfire]

I'm gonna give the Samsung stick to my friend and maybe in the future if I have money, I'll buy 2x 1GB PC3200 sticks or just buy a new computer. XD
Nice decision :beer:
2x Mushkin 512MB PC3200 in dual channel, use both sticks in either dimm slots 1+3 or 2+4.
Download MemSet for more tweaking via software and your good to go.