Cheap Phase Change

[Icebl@ster]

I have saw some posts that people have said they have made their phase change cheap/ not so expensive. If so i was wondering if u could post parts used and if u remember prices.

Thx

[greenmaji]

Parts used?
You should to look more in depth into this subject if you are not aware of what parts are in a simple single stage phase rig.

Or you know of the parts that could be used and you would like to know wich ones can be found at a bargin?

Used, salvaged or one of a kind deals are involved in some of the cheapest builds here IF I have a clue of whats going on.

[Icebl@ster]

Parts used?
You should to look more in depth into this subject if you are not aware of what parts are in a simple single stage phase rig.

Or you know of the parts that could be used and you would like to know wich ones can be found at a bargin?

Used, salvaged or one of a kind deals are involved in some of the cheapest builds here IF I have a clue of whats going on.

I do know the parts wondering what parts I could find at bargins.(So mainly your second thing) But still wondering what people have.

[Pf.Farnsworth]

yes and no I guess, more on the no side in my opinion, a few factors involved.

You can try to salvage the compressor and the condenser but the filter, cap tube, copper pipe you will have to buy new. No guarantees with salvaged parts though so be prepared to deal with disappointment or not the exact result that you wanted.

You can buy the evap from one of the people that make them on xtremesystems.org that will run you $100-200 or you can make one yourself. If you want to make it yourself the cheapest would be to use come copper pipe caps and a copper plate. You will have to buy these.

Also if you want a flexible suction line you will need to buy one as well, cant imagine where you would salvage one rated for the pressures it will see, so pretty much have to buy it.

Since you dont have a certification nor money you cant really buy any refrigerants, even r134a which you dont need a lic to buy is still costs money. Your only choice becomes dirty bbq propane. I say dirty because its not pure. Now if you are comfortable with using propane then no to many problems there, its pretty cheap. Only thing is compressors out there use different refrigerants so if you find one with oil that is not suitable for use with propane you will have to buy some oil and change it in the compressor.

You will also need a pair of schrader valves to charge and tune your system.

You will need the minimum amount of tools as well. A torch, brazing rods, hvac manifold for charging and tunning the system, a pipe cutter.

Now we get in to the ugly grey area. There are two things that should be done.

When you braze you need to purge the pipes to prevent oxidation of the copper. Some people dont however its like taking a gamble, if a piece of oxidation falls off the pipe during operation it will clog the cap line which will make your system non functional and could overload your compressor and break it. Feel lucky? If yes you can save some money here, if no then time to spend more. Here we have another choice, you can purge with dry nitrogen which will cost you about $250 for everything, it is safe as nitrogen is non toxic, non flammable and stable. Or you can purge with bbq propane (some thing you would use for refrigerant, two for one deal...) now that have a potential for some ugly accidents that we have seen happen. Propane is flammable and is explosive so question again want to save money or play safe.

Moving on to second task. You need to pull a vacuum in your system before you charge it. One to remove the air which wont work as a refrigerant here and two to remove the moisture that will freeze in the cap line and block it. Now you can buy a vacuum pump ($200) or you can use the compressor as the vac pump, that works but not very well, you wont pull a very good vacuum which will reflect on the performance but it will work.

Also add the price of a few fans, insulation, random nuts and blots, brackets and mounting hardware.

So to answer your question shorter, you can cut a lot of the cost off, but dont think for a second there is no price to pay. If you want to just make a system and dont care about reliability, safety, performance then you can make one for almost nothing. But if you do care then the price starts going up.

Now it doesnt have to be all or nothing, I suppose you can cut a little here and there, where you feel comfortable knowing the consequences and you can end up in the middle price wise.

In conclusion I would like to quote Xeon who does this work for a living, he stops by to give advice now and then. I think he captured my thoughts very well in his words.


They don't need to buy the systems but they still have to purge and vacuum.

a purging system as they are indeed critical to a proper running and clean system, to say other wise IS being an idiot.

thus learnt by doing it as a hobby till school starts, and in that time have learnt well that purging and the vacuum are the most important things to guarantee the health of the system.

Can this be don cheaply? Ya any thing can, but don't be surprised when it blowes up in your face or burns the house down, you can do it properly, but now it will cost a bit more

If you do not follow proper procedure and take idiotic advice, then you are on your own when the proverbial crap hits the fan and had better not act surprised when that happens.

So yes it can be don cheap if don properly, but to learn all the small details of doing it properly takes allot more effort then some seem to be willing, so if they will work through the discouragement rather then giving up you will at least know they are taking it seriously and willing to put the effort in, like any thing in life, if not respected it will kill you, machines don't feel mercy they keep working no matter what part of you is in the way, just as a fire will keep burning and electricity flowing or shrapnel flying the protocols are there to minimize any of that from happening.


At this point I have to mention that what probably would suit you well as it seems, is a fender-bender chiller. Its very cheap, very easy, good performance, cools multiple sources, and no tools or charging needed. What you do is get a used window AC, you can get those very cheap. Bend the pipes the put the evap in to a picnic cooler chest, fill with coolant, pipe to your water cooling setup, insulate, turn the ac on and you are done. No need to even cut up the unit. If you are short on money thats what you probably want. Otherwise it gets a little more complicating.

[Icebl@ster]

hmm interesting. I was thinking about doing a chiller but it just seems to bulky.
Acouple things i think prices people pay for things are outragous when i did my first wcing setup it was atleast half the price people said it would be so....
On to a stupid question i have a vacuum pump i use on my cars a/c is that the same thing/ will work with this?
Also can anyone recommend some quiet compressors?

[Pf.Farnsworth]

It should. How much cfm?

This is a little more compicating then water cooling, and I think you misunderstood me. The point I was driving was that you could do it for half the price people tell you but the question is will it be running tomorrow and will you still have your arms and legs.

And on some of these things there is no debating the price, mostly the tools involved as you can look them up yourself.

I sugested the fender bender chiller because people with very limited funds cant afford to be picky. Besides the way I look it it a chiller is a better solution either way.

You can make one on almost any budget, there is no argument there, the point is what will you have at the end of the day.

Like I said you dont have to spend alot of money. You want cheep no matter what, can do:

-Cut out the compressor form a wondow ac (cheap, also loud and hot), and the condenser.

-Copper pipe, cap line, insulation, fan, filter/dryer, and schrader not very expencive but it does add up.

-Tools, you have to have the manifold, pipe cutter, tourch, brazing rods and something to vacuum and purge. You have a vac pump. Get a tank of bbq propane at walmart.

-finally the evap, you want cheap go make one. Price of copper and flex line.

-possible oil change for the compressor

-mounting hardware

Add it all up your self and see what it will run you.

[Icebl@ster]

No i understand your point im just saying people pay more money than something is. Not goin for cheapo parts. Anyone with a quiet compressor?

[Pf.Farnsworth]

Its not so easy to define what something is worth. The storm for example looks to expencive for what it is to some but in reallity its worth what people are willing to pay. High end equipment is expencive like it or not. PC&P will gladyl make you a 4000w psu with under 1% veriation for about $50,000, and to say that paying that is to much is idiotic because you arent exactly getting a double A battery here. Keep in mind one thing too, you get what you pay for, if you pay less then there will be consequences for the savings. I bought a compressor not so long ago, new, price was really good, turned out it was louder then my car and twice as hot. You get what you pay for. People pay alot because they want good results, or better yet they want extreem results, well that costs exteem amount sof money. I dont think anything in WC is paying to much for their storm or RD30.

Well if you are not scavenging anymore then you can buy a danfoss NF11FX, its about $250 I think. Very quiet, 1/2hp.

Dont see anything good on ebay right now.

Ask on XS, alot of people have alot of compressors they would seel. Check out the buy/sell section.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=170

If you want quiet look for a reciprocating piston compressor under 1/2hp.

I have 2 1/5hp embracos I'd sell but I dont want to bother with shipping. If you live close you can drop buy and pick them up, I live in US, CA, about an hour from SF... lol

[greenmaji]

They make tiny window air conditioners.. check out Jame's thread. I would tend to agree this is were the bang for the buck is.

Hay.. Pf.. I think you forgot that you need 100 posts at XS to see there for sale section ;)

Most of these smallish quiet compessors that extreem peps use have an original application, its called a deep freezer. Some of these can be found used or junked for one reson or another (In the US some people don't think to get the things serviced for their refegerant charge). If I was looking to get a good deal on one (and the starting electronics) I would look in that direction.

/joke for Pf.
you could flare the entire unit together :p
just purge the evap :p
/joke for Pf. off

[Icebl@ster]

hmm idk might just buy a prometeia dont kno yet but apparently i can make invisible posts on xs that my post count went to 0 then once i make another post its still 0 :bang head lol dont kno wats up with that

[jinu117]

hmm idk might just buy a prometeia dont kno yet but apparently i can make invisible posts on xs that my post count went to 0 then once i make another post its still 0 :bang head lol dont kno wats up with that

XS admin is very keen on people "running" for 100 post just to see the FS thread. (basically posting garbage to get the number). Just take your time getting theire...

[greenmaji]

XS admin

and a bit ruthless try to be cool over there :cool:

haha.. non-spam posts.. check my profile lol

[Icebl@ster]

i talked to one of the admins and i said i thought i could see fs forums but dont remember post count but he said he would have to talk to others. But the other thing is when i post it doesnt even add to my post count so :rolleyes: And what are prices now a days for machI,II,IIgt?

[Pf.Farnsworth]

i talked to one of the admins and i said i thought i could see fs forums but dont remember post count but he said he would have to talk to others. But the other thing is when i post it doesnt even add to my post count so :rolleyes: And what are prices now a days for machI,II,IIgt?

you can get a used one for a few hundred us dollars, check ebay and OC and Hard Forum sale sections. Dont remember if they have a post count req.

[jinu117]

i talked to one of the admins and i said i thought i could see fs forums but dont remember post count but he said he would have to talk to others. But the other thing is when i post it doesnt even add to my post count so :rolleyes: And what are prices now a days for machI,II,IIgt?

Hopefully NJKid is working for you.... as for price, depending on condition and type I've seen as low as $250 all the way up to $650 as of late on used system of those. Of course, if you can find it locally, you gotta give it $50-100 for shipping and than there is the VERY common... "shipping" damage syndrome... (I've been vicitim of it few years back couple of times).

[greenmaji]

]-[ has no post requirement, but for greef sake, serach with the trollhunters for the person before ever doing a transaction there (or anywere but here for that matter including XS IMHO)

[Icebl@ster]

k thx any idea wat Ttt means if anything in a fs thread? thx for the hard forum forgot about this place looking now :)

lol just realized when i was searching that they were a couple years old :(

Also is it worth to post a wtb thread or just look for people selling?

[jinu117]

Why not open up your choice bit more by posting WTB as well as searching ? :)

[XeonStrikeForce]

Tt is what you call some thing after some one took a good design and made it into total crap added a blinky light and charged 300% of the original cost, IE Thermal Take; a very apt name, and usually total crap.

My advice is run from any thing Tt water cooling as if it where the plague

(Erf never type befor first coffy! and my damn thumb is swollen! [/rant])

[Icebl@ster]

Tt is what you call some thing after some one took a good design and made it into total crap added a blinky light and charged 300% of the original cost, IE Thermal Take; a very apt name, and usually total crap.

My advice is run from any thing Tt water cooling as if it where the plague

(Erf never type befor first coffy! and my damn thumb is swollen! [/rant])
ooo took me a while to figure out what you was talking about also "extreme cooling".
This is a completely stupid question out of the most random possiblility could u change a unit from a gpu block to cpu block w/o having to regas it and/or could u like ungas(dont kno if thats even a word) it and regas it with same stuff once done?

[greenmaji]

ooo took me a while to figure out what you was talking about also "extreme cooling".
This is a completely stupid question out of the most random possiblility could u change a unit from a gpu block to cpu block w/o having to regas it and/or could u like ungas(dont kno if thats even a word) it and regas it with same stuff once done?

no the block is in the loop (and is has to be purged), you would have to vac down and regas.. or pump back (with the compressor) the system, if its designed for that (has some valves. lol)

[Pf.Farnsworth]

But you can if you have a chiller

OH SNAP !!!

:sn: :sn: :sn: :burn:

[greenmaji]

Yes.. yes chillers rule :sn: