Need opinions on causes of FSB wall

[Bottomsup]

I just did more testing and i think this is my problem. My G.Skill HZ throws memtest errors at DDR900 with using 360FSB and 2.5x multi. Ironically my system is very unstable at 440fsb (DDR880) with memory at 1:1 and my max stable OC is 435fsb (DDR870) with memory at 1:1

Also 435fsb with mem at 1:1 passes memtest with 2.1vdimm, but 440fsb only boots half the time even with 2.4vdimm

I tried setting timing manually, using SPD, and 2.4vdimm (board max) and it still errors out.

I also tested my E6300 with 6x multi and hit the same fsb wall at 440. Does that mean it is safe to assume this is my bottleneck is this G.SKill HZ?

If so do you think i should RMA it for another set or try a new brand altogether. I thought this stuff was the best so i dropped $240 US on it.

Or is there a chance the DS3 will ever support memory dividers via BIOS update?

thanks for your help.

Here are my sticks

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3937/ram002ch2.jpg

[batboy]

Maybe try one stick at a time... maybe one stick is better than the other. Manually try 5-5-5-15 and 2.3v.

[Evilsizer]

have you tried upping the mch voltage at all or the fsb termnation voltage? I forget what voltages options that board has. Can you list them and what the voltages are set to currently?

[Evilsizer]

I'll say RAM 'em. I'm going to start the RMA process in my XMS2 800EPPs on Tuesday. I'm calling Corsair and get a number to send them back because they won't do 1000mhz on a 5-6-6-15 @ 2.40v, in fact I've tried 'em in two boards and same results.

Either way, if one module is bad, well you bought them in pairs so you're still going to have to return both.

Time to RMA imo. I'm gonna do it as well.

Just one thing though, let us know how the process go with G.Skill's customer service RMA process.
hmm then i guess i should rma my c4's as they dont boot @ddr2-800 in my ab9 pro but yet my ocz 1gig 667mhz stick boots at ddr2-800. I have tried every option to, i can get them to ddr2-700@4-4-4-12 yet i dont have another board to test them at ddr2-800.

[Bottomsup]

Nasgul what are you going to get? Different brand or just replacements?

[batboy]

If DDR2-800 RAM does DDR2-800 at the rated timings, why the heck would you suggest doing a RMA? Just because they don't O/C as much as you had hoped? No wonder components keep increasing in price.

[Evilsizer]

Nasgul what are you going to get? Different brand or just replacements?
i know your asking him but if i could buy another set it would be the teamxtreem 2gig kit@667 3-3-3-8 at tankguys for @$255
http://www.tankguys.biz/ddr2-3338-p-1676.html
well either those or the patriots here
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220095

funny thing is i bought my c4's about a month ago from zzf for $250 now at $288 and egg has the same sticks for $290:eek:

If DDR2-800 RAM does DDR2-800 at the rated timings, why the heck would you suggest doing a RMA? Just because they don't O/C as much as you had hoped? No wonder components keep increasing in price.
i agree dont be rma'ing stuff cause it does not oc like you hoped or have seen others get. as its all the luck of the draw, if it does stock then cool. sell the ram list the highest you got a oc on it. then turn around and buy another set.

the only thing im wondering what happend with my ram and SPD timings i mean look at the tables.
here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/Evilsizer/ocforums/6400c4.jpg

[Nautica]

BTW, batboy, if your Preslers wouldn't be able to go beyond 4.0ghz and every body would get a 4.50ghz, you would be thinking the same thing too: RMA. This is an overclocking forum and if everydody can get 1000mhz out of their 800s and mine won't go pass 900? Time to RMA.

Pricing is done by the retailer, that's why they're so expensive, it's not Corsair jacking up the prices, everyone knows that.

BTW, if you don't see the point, look at my XMS2 675s doing 884 easy and can also do DDR2 900 as well. That is what it's all about.


you are so wrong about this its actually causing me physical pain.

If you could just point out one place anywhere on the site or place you bought your memory where it says theyll run over rated speeds and volts Ill agree with you just show me where it says they garuntee speeds higher than the rated ones they sold them at.

or better yet call the company who made them or retailer you bought them from and explain to them with complete honesty what the situation is and tell them why you want an rma for a fully functional and working as intended product.

If you want a strong clocking component and didnt get it on your first try sell said item on ebay or the classifieds and move on. when you dump an rma on the retalier you cost them alot more than youd think as you obviously have never sold anything in this way before to have any idea of the numbers involved. ask tankguys how theyd feel about this..... :rolleyes:


EDIT: I can also assure you that batboy wouldnt be thinking rma in the situation you stated. Ive read through enough of his posts here in the intel section alone to know he wouldnt do something like that.....

[batboy]

I never have and never will RMA a component because it won't O/C as much as I had hoped. Some of us have ethics. I usually sell the less stellar parts to my non-overclocking buddies at a discount. The couple of times I have gone through the RMA process was because the part was really defective (like the Swiftech water block that leaked a couple days after I installed it).

[xTrEmEoVrClOcKr]

Nasgul, for the first time I can't agree with what you're saying. If you have a part the overclocks like crap, sell it for a lower price on OCF / to friends.

Back on the subject. I say you sell the G.skill and buy some Teamgroup D9s. I got mine for $185 off the XS Classifieds. They're the best 2gb D9 kit for the money. They won't have a problem reaching 500+ mhz @ 4-4-3-4.

[Bottomsup]

I agree with Nasgul on this one. Retailers are charging high prices for these G.SKills. (Newegg has increased the price 40 bucks in the last 4 weeks) because they are desired for their superior memory chips. If i wanted DDR800 only i could buy some cheap patriot ram and save a ton of cash.

[Daleon]

Nasgul - They said if you sold it here on the forums list the highest OC, hows that not ethical?

You may very well be able to get a legitimate RMA from Corsair. Call them up, tell them your memory will not run at 1066 and see if they accept it. Some memory is the same model as higher speed stuff set down to a lower speed with tighter timings. I would go here and post your problem and see what you get though.

Corsair Support Forum (http://www.houseofhelp.com/v2/forumdisplay.php?forumid=131)

Bottomsup - Ofcourse you agree with him. :) I still don't think you can get a legit RMA for the G.skill though. They are not rated to run 1066 in any way that I know of. Yes there more expensive than most other DDR-800, but there still much cheaper than the stuff that sells rated for 1066 or higher. Just know you are probably going to have to lie when you try and RMA it, thats the bottomline and if you want to do that.

[treatmentx]

i dunno, all the memory i've ever bought (from only Corsairs & OCZ) have always been able to go higher than the rated speed. I'm running my OCZ which was rated at 900, well over 1000 without any problems. With that kind of headroom given by these other brands, I've never switched from them.

[Bottomsup]

Ok well in that case can you guys maybe help me out a bit with my timings?

To Evilsizer, i've tried max vfsb and vmch to no avail.

What are the loosest timings i can set for all these options to see how far the memory will go?

I guess i'm looking for a noob list of how to test the limits. I know about memtest etc, but am not sure what all of these bios settings should be to obtain the highest frequency

Also, can to much voltage cause problems?

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7752/bioslb3.jpg

[Nautica]

Neither of you would buy something that doesn't overclock well, now do you? I didn't think so either.
[/COLOR]


laugh I went through no less than 9 diffrent opterons looking for a golden clocker that would run 3.5 24/7 under ss phase. the ones I used I sold on ebay.

the diffrence is that were both looking for strong clocking chips I can afford to find one whereas you cant and have to put the problem back on the companies shoulders. If you bought ram rated to run @ 1000mhz and it didnt Id back a rma 100% but to rma something thats working correctly is a ridiculous.

You also do alot of assuming about batboy and myself as well as other people. you do realize there are people who pay 1000$ for a x6800 or fx line cpu and never overclock it once dont you? not everyone in the world overclocks and goes for max clocks and would quickly buy a product listed on ebay for sale at a slight discount from brand new retail channels (and I know this from experience not an assumption)

I mean seriously do you honestly believe when you pay 240$ for a kit of memory that the retailer you bought it from only paid 100$ thats just not how it works unfortunantly and although there are a few sites that will price gouge at the drop of a hat not all do this and dealing with rmas for functional products isnt something most people have time to deal with simply because your sad you didnt get a stellar overclock.

I can try to direct a g.skill rep to this thread and maybe we can get some of their thoughts on a rma for the memory.

[Nautica]

I agree with Nasgul on this one. Retailers are charging high prices for these G.SKills. (Newegg has increased the price 40 bucks in the last 4 weeks) because they are desired for their superior memory chips. If i wanted DDR800 only i could buy some cheap patriot ram and save a ton of cash.


newegg has yet to force anyone to make a purchase from them to my knowledge If you dont like their prices dont buy from them but dont try to throw that up as a lame attempt to justify claming somethings defective when by your own admission it runs the rated speeds/voltages you paid for.

[Daleon]

Bottomsup - As batboy suggested, 5-5-5-15 should be plenty loose enough to clock the ram just about as high as it will go. The DS3 is 1.8 vdimm by default, and the G.Skill will handle 2.3-2.4 pretty well. So +5 and +6 should work, may want to start at +4 though as I am pretty sure most can hit those speeds at 2.2.

[hitbyaprkedcar7]

I agree with Nasgul on this one. Retailers are charging high prices for these G.SKills. (Newegg has increased the price 40 bucks in the last 4 weeks) because they are desired for their superior memory chips. If i wanted DDR800 only i could buy some cheap patriot ram and save a ton of cash.


Your point? NewEgg raised the prices because people are willing to shell out the extra cash for them. You are paying for the name G.Skill because it has been known as a very good quality brand, but RMA'ing it because it doesnt OC good is absoululy redicilous and i despise people like you. Your putting extra work on the company, costing them extra money, which they then raise there prices for the rest of us to make up for the money you lost them, because your just being selfish. If it works, no reason to RMA it. I have no problem with selling it in the classies or on ebay and buying a new one, but RMA'ing it? You just wasted 150$ of the companys money. That means they have to raise there prices 1$ and sell 150 more kits of it to make up for the money they lost because of you. If 40 people do what you did, then of course there going to raise prices because they just lost 6000$!!! Thats like saying Why buy a BMW when i can buy a Mazda and save bunchs of money? Some mazdas can go just as fast as BMW's if not faster, why pay the extra money? For the name and for the build quality. I bet you a BMW will outlast a Mazda when used the same.

I despise people like you and nasgul. Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us.

[xTrEmEoVrClOcKr]

That's being a bit drastic, but I partly agree. Prices can increase because of countless people RMAing, but I don't think it can effect the price by a huge margin.

[Bottomsup]

ok guys jeez. 'Despise me'? Let's settle down. I won't RMA them..ok i promise! In fact i may just buy a new conroe with a higher multiplier instead! lol

[hitbyaprkedcar7]

That's being a bit drastic, but I partly agree. Prices can increase because of countless people RMAing, but I don't think it can effect the price by a huge margin.


Yes it is a bit drastic, but im in a bad mood. My loop just leaked killing my two dvd rw drives and now i have to shell out 70$ for two more :bang head As for not effecting prices by a huge margin, it depends on how big the company is. If its a small company, they dont have the capital to cover a few pointless RMA's, if its a big company, they might be able to cover it.

Cheers :beer:

[Evilsizer]

ok guys the thing is in my case if you look at the timings table both sticks are missing the cas setting in the table. now if this is indeed the reason why they dont post in my board at ther rated speed and timings. then im going to rma them, i still need to call them and see whats up.

on pricing thats another story... i bought my C4's at ZZF for 250shipped now they list the same set for $280 with newegg @$290 for the same set.

The increase in ram sales lead all retailers online to increase prices, any one remember supply and demand?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@bottom hey whats the mem performance settings list as you might want to try a lower setting. It might be setting some chipset timings that are too tight for the ram and higher speeds. just a thought, any way though you could post some more ss of the bios so i can see the options. Then we can go down the list of what to change and see if it affects anything.

[bobad]

My loop just leaked killing my two dvd rw drives and now i have to shell out 70$ for two more :bang head

So... are you going to RMA those DVDR-W drives too? :)

[Nautica]

I'm glad one of the few people that likes to loose money by buying high and selling low. I'm the complete opposite.

err its called responsibility. I dont look at it as buying high and selling low. I look at it as doing what it takes to get a good overclock. Your attitude that your "owed" a high overclock from these manufacturers is just beyond ridiculous to me and most everyone else whos matured past age 18. could you explain to me why you are owed this high overclock again? dont mean to be rude here but your logic is that of a 14yr old boy who can only get new hardware when mom or dad oks it and pulls out thier wallet.... losing 20-40$ on a cpu to buy another one and try again may be far out of your reach but for some of us its an hour or 2 of work and we move on.


So... are you going to RMA those DVDR-W drives too? :)

hes one of the people saying he doesnt rma something when its not the manufacturers fault when it breaks/doesnt perform like he wished it would but like it says it would when bought it.

[One Bull]

Nasgul, what you are doing (while completely understandible), isn't it against some sort of unwritten oc rule? :confused:

[Epox4life]

Has this thread turned into a debate about ethics or what?

[One Bull]

Has this thread turned into a debate about ethics or what?

whoops srry,

for bottomsup
try
setting the 4-4-4-8 on the screenshot to 5-5-5-15

and yes, too much voltages can cause problems, usually they get heatrelated at first, but if you give more you'll end up frieing somthing

[TankGuys]

Nasgul-

I'll tell you what I think, from a retailer perspective.

First, I do, of course, completely understand how crappy it is when you buy something, and get bad overclocks out of it. This IS OCforums of course, and that's why most of you buy the items you buy - just so you can OC them. Heck, 95% of our customers are overclockers and enthusiasts, as am I, so I most certainly understand. It's never fun when you buy something that's supposed to OC like mad, and you barely get 5% out of it or whatever, and it's especially painful when it's many hundreds of dollars. So on these points, I don't disagree with you in any way, shape, or form.

However, where our view diverge (not surprisingly) is on the RMA point. First, it's not always the retailers who "jack up" the prices. I will tell you that on most products I sell, I make very little - maybe $7-$10 if I'm lucky. 90% or more of the cost of an item comes directly from the manufacturer, and us retailers get a very, very small piece of the pie, due to the very low barriers to entry in this business, and the intense competition.

Second, we have absolutely, positively, no control over how well an item will overclock. Obviously, we didn't make it - so there's no way we can warranty, promise, or gaurantee any level of operation above and beyond what the manufacturer rates. I imagine this is pretty obvious, but it bears pointing out.

So, let's say you get a set of RAM that doesn't OC up to your expectations. You contact me, and request a refund or exchange. Let's say, for a moment, I do it: I ship you a new set of ram, and you send me the old stuff. What am I going to do with the now open and used RAM?

Option 1: Send it back to the manufacturer.
Nope, can't do that - it works fine. They won't help me.

Option 2: Sell it as a new item at the orignal cost.
Nope, obviously not even an option.

Option 3: Sell it as an open item, used part.
I'm immediately forced to discount it 20% or more (which costs me a ton, since my markup wasn't anywhere near that to begin with), just to sell it - then what happens when the next guy gets it, and says it doesn't work well? He returns it, and the entire cycle starts again.


Since option 3 would be my only possible course, if I accepted the refund, I've lost quite a bit of money. I either have to eat that cost, or I have to pass it along to everyone else, by raising all our other prices. In the first case, I'm the one who ends up paying for the bad overclock for your memory, which was out of my control in the first place. In the second option, every single other customer pays for it, and again, it's not something they have any control over either. That being said, your first reaction may be to say that "big deal, it's one set of memory" but if I accept your RMA on a set of bad clocking memory, I've got to accept them all... and I imagine you can easily see how that would quickly snowball into a *lot* of money.


This is, in a nutshell, why it's "wrong" to RMA a part just because it doesn't OC well. What you could do, however, is take it up directly with the manufacturer, and try to get some concessions out of them, but in the end, it's a bit unreasonable to expect any gauranteed level of overclocking. Consider that if every kit of Memory XXX could hit speed YYY, then it would be sold as speed YYY in the first place :)

[markymoo]

well said tanky, i felt sorry for you hearing that but thats the reality.

nasgul should just sell them 2nd hand and get a good 2nd hand price for them. he dont have to sell them advertised as oc memory. somebody will want them sold at a fair price. if money so tight for him he shouldnt be in the oc game as its not cheap lol just put it down to experience and move on. stop being spoilt. you materilistic bummer