Overclocking Conroe Scenario - needing quick advice..

[thudo]

I posted my purchasing specs here just under a month back so here I am: super happy but just needing some advice from the Bios and Hardware Masters here:

Firstly.. here are my specs on where we are now:

CPU Used: Conroe E6700 Retail B2
Motherboard: Asus P5W DH (1301 Bios)

My Current Settings:
AI Overclocking: Manual :D
CPU Frequency: 350
DRAM Frequency: DDR2-1050Mhz
Preformance Mode: Auto
PCI Express Frequency: Auto
PCI Clock Synchonization Mode: Auto

Memory Voltage: 2.20V
CPU VCore Voltage: 1.5000V
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.40V
MCH Chipset Voltage: 1.55V
ICH Chipset Voltage: Auto

RAM Used:
OCZ DDR2 PC2-8000 Platinum Extreme Edition Dual Channel 1000MHz DDR2
Recommended: CL 4-5-4-15 2.2 Volts (use a VDIMM of 2.25V ± 5%)

My Current Settings:
Dram Cas# Latency: 4
Dram Ras# PreCharge: 5
Dram Ras# to Cas# Delay: 4
Dram Ras# Activate to Precharge: 15
Dram Write Recovery Time: 4

CPU temp @ 3.5Ghz (Idle 38c, Load: 41-42c)
Cooler: Scythe Mine + Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste
Motherboard temp @ 3.5Ghz (Idle 33c, Load ~35c)
Power Supply: OCZ GamerXtreme 700W

Now my question:

With the above CPU and Memory.. Is there more room for both to improve? What should I be watching for above to push to 3.6Ghz (which is VERY high for a E6700)? How am I doing sofar with the above?

FYI: With the above settings, I'm seeing errors in the 16M and 32M tests for the SuperPI tests as well as the Go-Orthos-Beta. I gather this is normal for my settings as I need to tweak them. Any thoughts everyone? Any areas I should be specifically tweaking to allievate errors?

Thanks everyone and highly appreciate the feedback!

e.

[batboy]

PCI Express Frequency should be set to 100 MHz. Do you really need 1.5v on the vcore to be stable? If so, then you might not have much more overhead to O/C. Other than that, try bumping up vdimm and MCH one more notch each.

[thudo]

Morning BatBoy.. Those settings are just my first phase of tweaking. Currently running with those settings above and completed all SuperPI now (wierd). However, Orthos Beta fails within 10secs. I will do as you say then report back.

[Evilsizer]

what mem ratio or divider are you using? its possible you are running the ram faster then it can handle at those timings.

[ECH]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/eastcoasthandle/E6700/Image_02.jpg
The Core 2 Duo E6700 processor clock multiplier is set to x10 by default and the BIOS would not allow this value to be altered as it is locked on the processor. First start by increasing the FSB from 266MHz to 366MHz and then select the DDR2-1100MHz setting; assuming you have memory such as the Corsair PC8500 that can achieve such a high frequency. The memory timings used at DDR2-1100 were CAS5-5-5-15...

The PCI Express frequency was set to the default 100MHz setting and the PCI clock frequency was also set to the default 33.3MHz. Other than this, the only other options that required tweaking were all the voltage settings. The Corsair PC8500 memory requires 2.0v when operating at 1100MHz in order to maintain absolute stability. The processor ran best at 1.3500v, the FSB termination was set to 1.40v with the MCH at 1.55v and the ICH at 1.20v. Once these nine simple alterations were made to the BIOS it was smooth sailing at 3.66GHz. The next step was to compare the standard 2.66GHz configuration to the overclocked 3.66GHz setup!
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=570&p=1

So Far I have been successful with FSB up to 293 using this method, Ram 89X (something or another don't remember off hand). I have MCH 1.60V or 1.65V, I haven't gotten it as low as 1.55V. Still testing though

[thudo]

what mem ratio or divider are you using?No idea.. where do I find that? I've been asking about that for a while with no concrete response.

ECH - yea I have that already. That screencapture of the bios is MY GOAL! <drools> I can probably obtain it first by testing the CPU overclock first (enable SPD so Memory isn't the issue) then once the CPU is stable tackle ram after that.

As noted I have OCZ DDR2 PC2-8000 Platinum Extreme Edition Dual Channel 1000MHz DDR2 MEMORY so whether it can handle 8500 specs is unclear. My Ram is SUPER fast! Its "GEEK" class ram. :bday:

Anyway, installed a Hardcano 12 into my case last night (monitors 4 fans and 4 temp locales in the case) so I'll continue my overclocking adventures. I'll report in once I get something solid! Thanks everyone..

[phaeton]

Now, I may be way off here, but it looks like you are running a 2:3 divider on your ram.

DDR[1,2] running at 1:1 will be running 2x as fast as your FSB. So in this case, you should be running at DDR2-732. The reason you buy faster RAM is for the overhead in overclocking... so when your RAM is running 1:1 with your FSB, you should be having 533mhz. Now, your RAM is rated MUCH higher than that, so you should be able to drop the divider to 1:1, and that won't be your limiting factor, considering your RAM sticks are not bad.

To do this, hit enter on the DDR2-1098 setting, and select 732, or whatever is closest to that.

[thudo]

Okie.. so under "DRAM Frequency"
I should set it too: DDR2-732Mhz
Should CPU Frequency be set to 366 (3.66Ghz)? Makes sense since its half the value. :D
I'll try that as well!

[Evilsizer]

well first underclock ur ram.. im not sure on all the dividers you have in that board as its different at different FSB's. You want to find the max the cpu will do then find he max your ram will do. Then if you have to meet somewhere in the middle for best performance. if you havent updated the bios already do so, there is a option that allows you to change multis downward in that board. This will help when tring to find the max the ram will do.

[thudo]

Yes.. again no sense in trying to troubleshoot two variables. ;) I'll be trying CPU first. However, right now even at my "crazy settings" the system seems decent enough. Yes there are some quirks but its a good sign for me that at least things are scalable.

[phaeton]

Okie.. so under "DRAM Frequency"
I should set it too: DDR2-732Mhz
Should CPU Frequency be set to 366 (3.66Ghz)? Makes sense since its half the value. :D
I'll try that as well!

Your CPU Frequency is just your FSB setting. So this is what you are using to clock up/down. At 1:1 (ie: setting your RAM to 732 now) you will have overhead up to 500fsb, which, if you reach that stage, I doubt the RAM will be limiting you.

So, back to 732, and see if you can wring anything more out of it. At least you know its not your RAM.

[thudo]

Update...

CPU Used: Conroe E6700 Retail B2
Motherboard: Asus P5W DH (1301 Bios)

My Current Settings:
AI Overclocking: Manual
CPU Frequency: 366
DRAM Frequency: DDR2-732Mhz
Preformance Mode: Auto
PCI Express Frequency: 100
PCI Clock Synchonization Mode: 33.33Mhz

Memory Voltage: 2.20V
CPU VCore Voltage: 1.4875V
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.50V
MCH Chipset Voltage: 1.65V
ICH Chipset Voltage: Auto

RAM Used:
OCZ DDR2 PC2-8000 Platinum Extreme Edition Dual Channel 1000MHz DDR2
Recommended: CL 4-5-4-15 2.2 Volts (use a VDIMM of 2.25V ± 5%)

My Current Settings:
Configure Dram Timing by SPD: Enabled
Dram Cas# Latency: -
Dram Ras# to Cas# Delay: -
Dram Ras# PreCharge: -
Dram Ras# Activate to Precharge: -
Dram Write Recovery Time: -

CPU temp @ 3.66Ghz (Idle 35c, Load: 41-45c)
Cooler: Scythe Mine + Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste
Motherboard temp @ 3.66Ghz (Idle 33c, Load ~35c)
Power Supply: OCZ GamerXtreme 700W
Note my new changes.. I'm now running @ 3.66Ghz with SPD enabled and some voltage changes..

Here's what works:

SuperPi = All Tests complete fine
Prime95 = All Tests (ie Torture Test) complete fine without errors (left for 1 hour)

And what doesn't:
Orthos Beta = Only Last CPU (Gromacs Core) test works perfectly.. any other test errors out in under a minute.

Anyone understand whats going on here? Seems bizzaro to me.

Note: I am running WinXP + SP2 (all updates) but have dropped my Paging File down to 150mb (no need to have a large one anyway with 2gb ram). That shouldn't cause a prob with Orthos? Wouldn't think so.

Any other synthetic tests or bios configs to consider? Just need to know if I should just be ignoring this "ghost in the machine" :D Thanks everyone!

[Evilsizer]

have you tried bumping the fsb term voltage up a notch ie either 1.55 or 1.6 to see if that help. Well drop the fsb down like 5-10mhz and run orthos agian, if it runs find after 8hrs then either the cpu needs a bump or possibly the ram. back it down first run it if not stable back it down agian. honastly something is poking me saying up the cpu-v to 1.5.

[thudo]

Well quick update:

Disabled the following:
Hyper Path 3
Dram Throttling Threshold

Result? Orthos goes a little farther now. Went up to 2.5minutes. Second attempt then went to 1.5minutes. I also increased Vcore to 1.5000V.

Note: FSB term and MCH maxed out - they don't go any higher.

Btw, when you say drop the FSB do you mean the CPU Frequency which is @ 366? I'll try that! Thanks Evilsizer!

[Evilsizer]

Well quick update:

Disabled the following:
Hyper Path 3
Dram Throttling Threshold

Result? Orthos goes a little farther now. Went up to 2.5minutes. Second attempt then went to 1.5minutes. I also increased Vcore to 1.5000V.

Note: FSB term and MCH maxed out - they don't go any higher.

Btw, when you say drop the FSB do you mean the CPU Frequency which is @ 366? I'll try that! Thanks Evilsizer!
yes if you drop it to say 350mhz and its orthos stable then possible mem clocked to high or cpu. ok so now that you changed what 3 things back the cpu-v back to where you had it. if orthos fails like it did before then the cpu needs more volts. quite possible to be stable the cpu is going to need something like 1.525-1.55v but since your on air i wouldnt recommend 1.55v for 24/7 use. btw what are your temps like @3.66ghz @1.485v?

[thudo]

My mentioned temps are above 2 messages ago.

Update - Ram PRIME95 for 12+ hours under same above specs.. No problems.. CPU Load Maxed @ 46c... Anyone else think Orthos is screwy? I do. ;)

[thudo]

Okie.. ongoing with my tests I have some questions to consider:

1) For Ram - should I have tighter timings (ie. 4-5-4-12) and keep Vdimm @ 2.20V or run by SPD and then increase DRAM Frequency much higher than where I am to 800+ then increase Vdimm higher than 2.20V

2) For this kind of ram, what is the usual "breaking point" for over-volting? 2.40V?

I am **VERY** satisfied with the current overclock @ 3.66 (1 full Ghz over stock) running @ idle: 35-36c load: 42-45c max. However..

When I first started this thread note my insane configuration - I know the ram was waaayy to high but the system actually ran well + the ram was insanely fast. I guess it comes down to what the ram can handle as its obvious the CPU can handle it pretty high. Thanks everyone.

[NO1B4ME]

Okie.. ongoing with my tests I have some questions to consider:

1) For Ram - should I have tighter timings (ie. 4-5-4-12) and keep Vdimm @ 2.20V or run by SPD and then increase DRAM Frequency much higher than where I am to 800+ then increase Vdimm higher than 2.20V

2) For this kind of ram, what is the usual "breaking point" for over-volting? 2.40V?

I am **VERY** satisfied with the current overclock @ 3.66 (1 full Ghz over stock) running @ idle: 35-36c load: 42-45c max. However..

When I first started this thread note my insane configuration - I know the ram was waaayy to high but the system actually ran well + the ram was insanely fast. I guess it comes down to what the ram can handle as its obvious the CPU can handle it pretty high. Thanks everyone.



Great Overclock man. Have you ran any CPU Intensive programs yet?

[thudo]

Okie.. finalizing things..

CPU Used: Conroe E6700 Retail B2
Motherboard: Asus P5W DH (1301 Bios)

My Current Settings:
AI Overclocking: Manual
CPU Frequency: 366
DRAM Frequency: DDR2-915Mhz
Preformance Mode: Auto
PCI Express Frequency: 100
PCI Clock Synchonization Mode: 33.33Mhz

Memory Voltage: 2.25V
CPU VCore Voltage: 1.5000V
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.50V
MCH Chipset Voltage: 1.65V
ICH Chipset Voltage: Auto

RAM Used:
OCZ DDR2 PC2-8000 Platinum Extreme Edition Dual Channel 1000MHz DDR2
Recommended: CL 4-5-4-15 2.2 Volts (use a VDIMM of 2.25V ± 5%)

My Current Settings:
Configure Dram Timing by SPD: Disabled
Dram Cas# Latency: 4
Dram Ras# to Cas# Delay: 4
Dram Ras# PreCharge: 4
Dram Ras# Activate to Precharge: 12
Dram Write Recovery Time: 4
HyperPath 3: Disabled
DRAM Throttling Threshold: Disabled

CPU temp @ 3.66Ghz (Idle 35-36c, Load: 41-45c)
Cooler: Scythe Mine + Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste
Motherboard temp @ 3.66Ghz (Idle 33c, Load ~35c)
Power Supply: OCZ GamerXtreme 700W
Now with that it doesn't pass Orthos yet but everything else does. (Well.. have't run incidences of Prime95 yet). I code Advanced Skirmish AI for Dawn of War/Winter Assault and have max details @ 1600x1200 with 5 HARD AIs and never have probs (game does not use dual core) so I need to try something like Max8.

Anyway.. I can get the computer stable @ 3.5 Ghz with 1:1 with the ram. I still want to have faster ram speeds but right now with the above its fast. Anyway.. coming to finally love the speeds. I could compromise with slightly slower ram speeds and make it true 1:1 @ 3.66Ghz then just tighten the mem timings even more. Comments?

[Corellon]

Thudo:

I'm running something rathers similar to yours (E6600 and OCZ 1000DDR2 (Non extreme, 5-5-5-15 timings) but the same board and have had issues with Orthos as well, Still waiting to get a better HSF before I try again, but I was up to a 375 FSB at stock Voltages across the board, System was Prime95 and SuperPi stable but Orthos would die in a matter of seconds, I found this was almost always on core1 (Vs the Core0 'first' core).

In my case it's likely the HSF and lack of voltages but backing off to 350-360 solved most issues, I have had a couple of 'experiances' though that might be similar to your problem with Orthos...

Dispite being DDR1000 (PC8000) I could never run it at near 1000 Clocks, expectially at the higher ratios (1:1 I could never achive a 500 FSB to test), would fail utterly at 2:1 (highest the MB supports) even at a loward FSB of 230 (That's only 920 clocking) and as the FSB went up the ratio dropped 1 below what should have been 'max'. Was going to do some more testing after the HSF to see if it's a board or ram issue.

Setting the ICH on Auto caused issues for me as well, Just like the PCIe on Auto. Set the ICH to the default or slightly higher voltage and see if it stablizes things for you (Being at work I can't recall of the top of my head what I set mine to, but I don't think it was 1.20v)

Play around with the performance mode to find somthing that works for you, as noted above 'Auto' seems to be a issue (Or was for me) when the FSB starts climbing towards 350's)

Disabling the VT, Cool and Quiet, Enhanced C1 State and a couple others helped too, not sure from your posts if you've looked at those, C1 in particular seemed to help tons since it stops the CPU voltage from dropping in idle then surging on high load (Which was a problem with Orthos and Prime95 since they go from idle to load in a split second)

Evilsizer:

You were mentioning a BIOS update for this board that allows multiplier adjustments? Could you point me towards a source as I've been looking forward to this, but as of yet only though the P5B was supported (VS the P5W)

[thudo]

ICH now set to 1.20V (or whatever was the max)
Preformance now set to TURBO
Visualization Technolgy(VT), Cool, and Quiet = All Disabled
Enhanced C1 State is still disabled - any attempt to enable it sets Vcore to AUTO and causes system not to POST.

Result.. Same.. Orthos dies after 18+ seconds.

[Corellon]

Hmmm Not sure what else to suggest at the moment, I'll ponder a bit but first have you made sure that this is solely the CPU that is dying in orthos?

Keep the CPU settings the same but set the RAM to DDR732 with Timings of 6-6-6-20 (I think that's the max) also max out the write delay recoverytime since that 3 tests in orthos that fail are ram dependend (VS the core test) it might be a issue, I know they are rather crappy, but it ensures that ram will not be the issue at fault, I know it was suggested before but I couldn't get from the post weather Orthos worked at 366FSB with the ram underclocked or if you just had it prime95 stable.

I'm currently on Bios 1101 but don't think that would make a difference.

[thudo]

Keep the CPU settings the same but set the RAM to DDR732 with Timings of 6-6-6-20 (I think that's the max) also max out the write delay recoverytime since that 3 tests in orthos that fail are ram dependend (VS the core test) it might be a issue, I know they are rather crappy, but it ensures that ram will not be the issue at fault, I know it was suggested before but I couldn't get from the post weather Orthos worked at 366FSB with the ram underclocked or if you just had it prime95 stable.So essentially I will "****** the ram" to see if its the ram in Orthos? My understanding is a timing of 3-3-3-10 is VERY tight compared to 6-6-6-20 (which is very loose). Tighter timings = generally faster ram but only by a little. Also... when you say "max out the write delay recovery time" do you mean make it a higher # like 6? Currently, its always been 4 (never changed that).

I'm just getting to the point that Orthos is VERY finicky and OVERLY so. I continue to stress my current setup with other real-world apps and nothing as much as a fart can stop it. Its rock solid.

[Dragon Heart]

I personally think you need more vcore to get orthos stable

My E6700 @3.5ghz 1.48 vcore could run orthos for 24hours

VICH auto
VmCH 1.60v
Vfsb 1.40 v
performance mode on turbo
PCI-e 105 mhz

I could boot at 3.954Ghz and run superpi 1M

[thudo]

If I increase Vcore to v1.52V @ 3.66 it gives Orthos more time (about 1.5minutes) but the CPU temp goes waaay up (average 51c+). I cannot have that. 3.5Ghz is a joke to me at least.. it runs flawless.. Guess I want the psychological 1Ghz Overclock and am willing to "suck it up" until I see a need to drop. Keep ya all posted!!

[Evilsizer]

well if you want a 1ghz oc then just nab a e6600 or e6400:)

[deathman20]

Or just learn to live with the heat. Im running 3550 right now with 1.525V @ 55C full load. Typically though its 46-48range with 1 CPU loaded.

I'll probably drop it down to 3.4 ;) (my 1gig OC) but I do want to have 3.6Ghz tuned in for my good clocks when I want them hehe.

[Corellon]

Sorry bad combination of shifts at work and losing this thread.

By 'Retarding' the settings I mean temporarly. Set the Ram to the loosest settings and lowest FSB and see if Orthos is stable, If it runs then it's a RAM issue, if not then it's as said likely the VCore. But given that increasing the Vcore isn't helping too much I'd say give the RAM thing a shot... if it doesn't help set the timmings back, but as I said if it's suddenly lasting longer then you know your timings were a little to tight.

Increasing the Write recovery (Higher number) helped stabilize orthos for me since I didn't mess with the MCH or VCore voltages, Orthos likes fast writes to memory it seems and if the recovery isn't sufficent bits get lost, which generates really quick errors (In my experiance so far fails withen a couple seconds tend to be ram related, failures after a longer period tend to be CPU related)

Just give it a shot, either way you know a little more where to look.

[thudo]

Update: Think I have a winner..

o CPU Used: Conroe E6700 Retail B2
o Motherboard: Asus P5W DH (1301 Bios)
o Ram: OCZ DDR2 PC2-8000 Platinum Extreme Edition Dual Channel 1000MHz DDR2
Recommended: CL 4-5-4-15 2.2 Volts (use a VDIMM of 2.25V ± 5%)
o Power Supply: OCZ GamerXtreme 700W
o Video Card: XFX 7600gt @ 620/830

CPU temp @ 3.66Ghz (Idle 35-36c, Load: 41-45c)
Cooler: Scythe Mine + Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste
Motherboard temp @ 3.66Ghz (Idle 33c, Load ~35c)
Video temp: (Idle 41c, Load 47c)

My Current Settings:
AI Overclocking: Manual
CPU Frequency: 366
DRAM Frequency: DDR2-915Mhz
Preformance Mode: Auto
PCI Express Frequency: 100
PCI Clock Synchonization Mode: 33.33Mhz
Memory Voltage: 2.30V
CPU VCore Voltage: 1.5250V
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.50V
MCH Chipset Voltage: 1.65V
ICH Chipset Voltage: 1.20V

MicroCode Updation: Enabled
Max CPUID Value Limit: Disabled
Execute Disable Function: Disabled
Enhacned C1 Control: Disabled
CPU Internal Thermal Control: Auto
Virtualization Technology: Disabled
Intet SpeedStep Tech: Disabled

My Current Settings:
Configure Dram Timing by SPD: Disabled
Dram Cas# Latency: 4
Dram Ras# to Cas# Delay: 4
Dram Ras# PreCharge: 4
Dram Ras# Activate to Precharge: 12
Dram Write Recovery Time: 4
DRAM ECC Mode: Disabled
HyperPath 3: Disabled
DRAM Throttling Threshold: Disabled

I run various tests with a game I am testing and normally the game would die during the 1st round OR during the 2nd. Now it never dies with the above while keeping my original specs I want. Orthos still dies after 2mins but other benchmark apps work fine.

I might try increasing the Dram Write Recovery a little as a test to see what Orthos does. Not expecting much.

[deathman20]

I run various tests with a game I am testing and normally the game would die during the 1st round OR during the 2nd. Now it never dies with the above while keeping my original specs I want. Orthos still dies after 2mins but other benchmark apps work fine.

I might try increasing the Dram Write Recovery a little as a test to see what Orthos does. Not expecting much.

Ya orthos is wierd I'll totally agree with that. With what I can do in my sig I can run 3.51Ghz easily at this voltage and be stable at everything else I've tossed at it including rendering which is always the one that bombed out on me previously when instablility happened.

[thudo]

I increased the Dram Write Recovery to 6 but only got a little faster RAM but Orthos still bombs out early. Oh well.. I'll continue to observe stability. The game I run, Dawn Of War+Winter Assault runs @ 1600x1200 Max Details (except for Shadows which I drop to Medium as V.Card has issues it seems), then I run a 6 AI only FFA game and all AI players are user-created faction mods. This is KEY! User-created faction mods always crash the game quicker when they detect the system is overclocked. Wierd but true. Doing this with 6 AI FFA game (running advanced AI my team coded) the game would die either in the first or second game. If it passed the second game then thats a success. Sofar.. its passed so quite happy with the specs.