7600GT vs X850 XT PE

[Kenshin Himura]

As the title implies, I'm currently pondering getting either a 7600GT or an X850 XT PE. What research I have done (which isnt much, most sites have stopped including the x850 by the time theyre reviewing the 7600GT. Toms charts had the 7600GT SLI but not the GT solo (and then the SLI form was about on par with the X850). To make matters worse, the games from old reviews are generally not the same as the ones from the 7600 reviews. So, I turn to you guys.

Pricing off newegg is in favor of the x850, as its about $115 without rebates. The 7600 is the same, but after abotu 30 in rebates. What little research ive done showed the x850 card as better, which is nice because when I went from my old 9800 pro to a 6800GT (different system), the transition wasnt exactly smooth. I would like to know that they are either comparable, or the ATI card is better. If its otherwise i will buy the 7600.

Thanks in advance

Kenshin Himura

[fireandice]

i say go with the 7600GT

[MadMan007]

Yea 7600GT I'd say. Here's a chart for you: http://www.digital-daily.com/video/vgapcie_roundup_q306/ although it's starting to get a bit dated with the games it uses. The two cards are roughly equal overall on those games but the 7600GT should remain better going in to the future.

[Neural Net]

Am I wrong in thinking that the 7600 supports Shader Model 3 whilst the X850 does not? :confused: If so, that might be another reason to go with the nvidia card.

[InsaneManiac]

It all depends on what you want to use the video card. The GeForce 7600GT has a 128 bit memory interface while the X850XT has a 256 bit memory interface. This difference will not make much of a difference unless you plan to play at higher resolutions with the AA and AF turned up very high. Having 12 pixel pipelines versus the 16 pipelines that the X850XT has. The GeForce 7600GT supports Open Ex HDR and Shader Model 3.0. The ATI X850XT only supports Shader Model 2.0b. So if your looking for things like HDR in games like Half Life 2 Episode One, Serious Sam 2, Oblivion, etc. The X850XT will not be able to support those features. I would say that if your wanting to future proof you should go for the 7600GT and then go SLI later on, but the X850XT will get you the most bang for your buck if your not worried about features. I personally have a 7600GT CO from EVGA and am proud to say I have had more than acceptable framerates in my games. I have played all games ranging from Doom 3 to F.E.A.R. And believe me it was absolutely gorgeous. The X850XT is still a monster of a card that can rock hard with the other cards out there, but if you buy the card you need to make sure that you download ATITool or Rivatuner. Reason being is that the default fan speeds are not set at an optimal level. Other than that I say go ahead.If you want to future proof, save your money and try getting a X1900GT, X1900XT 256MB, a 7900GS or a 7950GT. But if you get one of these, your going to need a very powerful supply.

I will post some links to back up my statements in terms of performance for both the X850XT and the GeForce 7600GT. Bit tech is the only guys that I saw that did a side by side view with both the X1800GTO and the X850XT. I heard rumors that the HIS Tech x1800GTO's were the most successful cards that could be flashed and unlock the quad pipeline turning the card into an X1800XL, but with lower clock speeds to it's 12 pipeline counterpart.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/03/21/bfg_7600_gt_oc_ati_x1800gto/1.html

http://www.boxgods.com/dept/hardware/index.php?Action=Article&ID=206

[Nandro]

The 7600GT may also hold its value a bit beter as others upgrade to SLI and are looking for a second vard, by then the x850 will be 3 generations behind and technology will just make it of less value to the general public not necessarily forums like these where we understand that sm3 and 2b are very close although sm3 is whats being written most now I woulg gather with even low end newer cards all suppoeting it and the oncomming shift to dx10, I would say the 7600GT would come closest to playing anything newer better.

[DareDevil_747]

I don't know what your situation is, but if I were you, I'd save my money for another week or two, as InsaneManiac said earlier, and get a card with a 256-bit memory interface. That is what really makes a card fast, IMO, especially when playing at high resolutions and with AA/AF enabled. Having a 256-bit memory interface simply means that you'll have a higher memory bandwidth between the GPU and the graphics memory, so no matter how fast your GPU is, it can only process the data as fast as the memory can feed it. Newer games will also not tax your card as much as it would if it were only 128-bit. If I were you, I'd try my best to get the 7900GS - with that card, you'll get 7900GT-like performance for about $100 less than the cost of a 7900GT - and I'm sure the rest of the guys here will agree, the 7900GT/GS is no slouch - it's a wicked fast card that'll play any game you throw at it with all detail settings at their highest (at normal resolutions).

[Nandro]

I dont know as 128 or 256m interface makes a difference as long as the performance is there. Personally I would save up and get the best deal out right now which is the 7900GS. Selling at about the same price point as many 7600GT's, its an awsome card for its price range with no competition.

[MadMan007]

I dont know as 128 or 256m interface makes a difference as long as the performance is there. Personally I would save up and get the best deal out right now which is the 7900GS. Selling at about the same price point as many 7600GT's, its an awsome card for its price range with no competition.

Yea fretting over an architecture detail isn't the way to go, it's all about how it performs. I agree a 7900GS is a sweet card for the price but I can't agree about the price comparison with 7600GT...$200 versus $140-150 (or $115 while the MIR on the BFG 7600GT is in effect) isn't 'about the same price point as many 7600GTs' I'm not sure where you're shopping.

[Nandro]

I guess they are around $200, I had myself all excited about that woot deal, and there are still 2 of them in the classifieds at $170 I believe. And don't get me wrong, the 7600GT is a nice card, but it seems like it would always be a bit shy of letting you use the high settings on the newer games where the 7900gs will probably let you go with high settings while aa and af would probably hurt both I like the goodies!

[MadMan007]

Yea paying a bit more for the next step will always yield a bit better results...isn't that how it always is? ;)

[InsaneManiac]

I dont know as 128 or 256m interface makes a difference as long as the performance is there. Personally I would save up and get the best deal out right now which is the 7900GS. Selling at about the same price point as many 7600GT's, its an awsome card for its price range with no competition.
At lower resolutions when AA and AF isnt concerned, the increased interface wont make much of a difference. But when you start moving up to 1600X1200 and beyond, raising the AA and AF up, then the 256 bit interface will make more of a difference. The 7600GT in terms of performance will get a performance hit when it reaches 1600X1200 with the AA and AF raised.

[Nandro]

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_7600_gt_performance/

Direct comparison, out of all the games the x850 comes out ahead in 1 game... that does not justify getting one unless battlefield 2 is your single game if choice, and the tests include aa and af for good measure. Simply put, thrr 7600's a superior card from a newer generation, it even keeps up or smacks the x1600pro in its price range. The 1900gt is what it needs to be compared to.

[Nandro]

honestly just take a look at the spec chart as far as fill rate a Mtexles per sec, the 7600 cleans the floor with the x850xt. Not to say I wouldnt get one if the price was right, but it would need to be in the $125 range for me to consider it.

[||Console||]

At lower resolutions when AA and AF isnt concerned, the increased interface wont make much of a difference. But when you start moving up to 1600X1200 and beyond, raising the AA and AF up, then the 256 bit interface will make more of a difference. The 7600GT in terms of performance will get a performance hit when it reaches 1600X1200 with the AA and AF raised.
smaking a x1600 around isnt that hard the x800's do that

[Nandro]

Look at the tests in the article, they pretty much speak for themselves. When I mentioned the x1600, it was only because it was its current price range competitor. When R600 comes out and the current ATI line lowers in price NV will have a full out was on its hands as far as sales. I dont even know how many of my friends got 7600gt's because of the price at brick and mortar stores (something I dont do. I am in an sli quandry myself right now as to go 7800gt or gtx as I have one of each.) If I were to go ATI, I would go with the x1900 as stated, it may be a killer physics card later down the line.

[BossBorot]

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_7600_gt_performance/

Direct comparison, out of all the games the x850 comes out ahead in 1 game... that does not justify getting one unless battlefield 2 is your single game if choice, and the tests include aa and af for good measure. Simply put, thrr 7600's a superior card from a newer generation, it even keeps up or smacks the x1600pro in its price range. The 1900gt is what it needs to be compared to.

maybe I am missing something here but that test didnt even have a x8 series card in it at all let alone the x850xt pe. How can the x850 be beaten in a round up that it is not even in? Also of course it will beat any x1600 series card, they are horrible and everyone knows it. Heck even a 7600gs should be able to beat a x1600xt. Also as for compairing it to a x1900gt....

honestly just take a look at the spec chart as far as fill rate a Mtexles per sec, the 7600 cleans the floor with the x850xt.

Specs on a chart dont mean much... if you where to look at the specs on the chart you would see that the 7600gt has less pipelines and a 128bit memory interface but does this mean that it performs bad, simply put no. All that I am trying to say is that specs on paper dont mean much you have to test them to see how they perform. nVidia cards typically have a larger fill rate compaired to ATi cards so simply looking at a list and saying that ooo the 7600 has a large fill rate does not mean much that is akin to saying ooo ATi cards have more shaders.

Not to say I wouldnt get one if the price was right, but it would need to be in the $125 range for me to consider it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102052
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102688
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102688R

and these prices are higher then they have been if you have been keeping up with them that is.

[InsaneManiac]

No matter how good the card looks on paper. It's all about performance and results. Sure X card sounds so great with a fill rate of 7 trillion pixels per second whily Y card has a fill rate of 7 million pixels per second. Conclusions cant be drawn from the specs alone. You need to draw your conclusion from supporting evidence from the performance numbers and benchmark scores.

[rainless]

No... no... not the 7900GS... By the time you've saved up that much (and it may be a while seeing as that's another 50-75 bucks... then you're only a stone's throw away from a 7900GTO, which you can basically do a mild overclock and have it running faster than a 7900GTX. (Or GX? I forget...) There's already a link about that on the Nvidia page. THERE's future proof for you. Personally I only play at 1024x768 so I'm good for now with my 7600GS. I would've gotten a 7600GT, but now I'm VERY glad I didn't seeing as not even a MONTH later they came out with the 7900GS. (And, btw, everybody else does have a point in saying there's no point in getting a 7600GT now that the 7900GS is out). For me the 7600GS (which still supports shader model 3.0 and all that nice stuff) was 115 bucks and the 7600GT was 165 bucks. That's a 50 dollar (excuse me... EURO) difference. And I was already paying that much because I was exchanging a 6200TC to get the 7600GS. So I would've been paying a HUNDRED euros instead of just fifty. So I took the extra money and went to Sweden instead. Now that the 7900GS is out I sleep a bit better at night.

So either save yourself some cash and get two 7600GSes (one now one later) or save up and get a 7900GS. There's no longer any point in the 7600GT. And the X850XT is already old tech that's getting older.

But keep in mind that if you get a 7900GTO you'll be able to clock it to an IMPRESSIVE degree, and by the time that isn't fast enough you can just get another one dirt cheap, overclock BOTH of them, and still be at the head of the class.

Food for thought.

Edit: LINK to the GTO and tests: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=479568

[MadMan007]

No matter how good the card looks on paper. It's all about performance and results. Sure X card sounds so great with a fill rate of 7 trillion pixels per second whily Y card has a fill rate of 7 million pixels per second. Conclusions cant be drawn from the specs alone. You need to draw your conclusion from supporting evidence from the performance numbers and benchmark scores.

And yet you've twice touted the memory interface size as a key feature in itself ;)

*edited* Err I must have been thinking of a different thread. I'm not sure what card the OP currently has :beer:

[Nandro]

the 6800 NU even unlocked does not equal the gt, having had all 3 NU,GT and ultra, the NU has only ddr and thus even OC'ed dosent match the GT.

[Kenshin Himura]

OK, sorry about the long wait. This thread evolved a lot more than I thought it would. I think i need to clarify that i really cannot spend more than $120ish (theres a 7600GT for 120 after a MIR). All this talk about saving and upgrading isnt really relevant to me. For one, I dont really have the option of saving up money, ive got a bunch of other things that need covering for now. For second, this system its going in isnt exactly bleeding edge and i dont need top dollar performance. The issue is which of these two cards will perform better.

The issue of SM 3.0 vs SM 2.0b isnt that big and its not a selling point. I know that my 6800 GT (which wasnt an unlocked GS, I have no idea where you got that from) has 3.0 and my old 9800 had 2.0, but i will be damned if my 9800 didnt look better on similar (if not higher for the GT) settings. I am not a huge fan of HDR (and the X800 and others can render HDR in the Source engine, though i dont think others)

SLI isnt a selling point for me, the comp its going in has only one PCI Express slot and for the love of god i dont want to have to chaneg the motherboard in it too (cost and hassle).

I also think a lot of you are confusing the X850XT (which is a generation or two old) with the X1800GTO, which is what most of the reviews are about. I would really like for someone to point out reviews comparing the two cards or some sort of firsthand experience with the two of them. I know a lot of you say get the 7600, but you didnt address my issues that I experienced with image quality and also didnt provide any sort of reason for it. Just because its newer doesnt make it better. The 7300 is also newer, but its not better than the X850.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh

Kenshin Himura

EDIT: Madman, thank you for that link. It was exactly what i needed, and confirmed my suspicion that the X850 was faster. I think im going to get that as my next card.

[BossBorot]

Also while I would say that the performance of the x850xt pe is slightly better then the 7600gt performance wise there are other issues as well even disregarding the shader model issue. The x850xt pe's cooler is a hairdryer in regards to looks, sound, and heat. The x850xt pe will draw more power from your psu, which may or may not be an issue depending on your setup, and produce more noise*. Therefore even though IMHO the x850xt pe is the better in both price performance and performance of the two, in most cases it is better to get the 7600gt due to the other issues. Just think over what you need and get whichever card fits those needs best. Neither is a bad buy just pick the card that would serve you best.

* that is not to say that the 7600gt does not have a loud cooler itself it is just the quiter of the two.

[rainless]

Quieter and it consumes less power. If it HAS to be between a 7600GT and an X850XT PE, then I've already stated the 7600GT is newer tech and you should get it if only for that purpose alone. You'll thank yourself later.

[Kenshin Himura]

The shader model issue? Show me some games where i am noticably losing a major amount of visual candy and then perhaps i will admit that its an issue. As for the longevity, i suspect that by the time 3.0 is the minimum that a 7600GT will not be sufficient. Further, the X850XT was consistantly about 20-40% faster than the 7600GT, especially with AA, AF, and high resolutions. Slightly faster is a serious understatement (again, thank you madman)

Kenshin Himura

[MadMan007]

Yea the only catch with the link I posted is it only has slightly old-ish games: HL2, Doom 3, Far Cry. In some cases the difference is small, in some cases large and remember that HL2 and the Source engine strongly favors ATI cards...if you play source games a lot or a little or medium factor that in.
I was struggling to decide a while ago to upgrade an AGP system (which I ended up not doing for other reasons.) I was leaning toward the 7600 for power draw and heat, plus I figure it's newer overall and would probably do better going in to the future I haven't seen anything with both those cards on newer games like Q4, Oblivion though. But either way I'm sure you'll be happy.

[BossBorot]

The shader model issue? Show me some games where i am noticably losing a major amount of visual candy and then perhaps i will admit that its an issue. As for the longevity, i suspect that by the time 3.0 is the minimum that a 7600GT will not be sufficient. Further, the X850XT was consistantly about 20-40% faster than the 7600GT, especially with AA, AF, and high resolutions. Slightly faster is a serious understatement (again, thank you madman)

Kenshin Himura

You got it right but some people blow it out of proportion and think that not having shader model 3 is the end of the world or something... Also shader model 3 will never be main stream with the advent of dx10.

Also something to keep in mind when looking at 3dmark06 scores, which I am surprised havent been brought up in support of the 7600gt, the x850xt is not allowed to run 2 of the tests (the shader model 3 tests) so the score is gimped.

[InsaneManiac]

OK, sorry about the long wait. This thread evolved a lot more than I thought it would. I think i need to clarify that i really cannot spend more than $120ish (theres a 7600GT for 120 after a MIR). All this talk about saving and upgrading isnt really relevant to me. For one, I dont really have the option of saving up money, ive got a bunch of other things that need covering for now. For second, this system its going in isnt exactly bleeding edge and i dont need top dollar performance. The issue is which of these two cards will perform better.

The issue of SM 3.0 vs SM 2.0b isnt that big and its not a selling point. I know that my 6800 GT (which wasnt an unlocked GS, I have no idea where you got that from) has 3.0 and my old 9800 had 2.0, but i will be damned if my 9800 didnt look better on similar (if not higher for the GT) settings. I am not a huge fan of HDR (and the X800 and others can render HDR in the Source engine, though i dont think others)

SLI isnt a selling point for me, the comp its going in has only one PCI Express slot and for the love of god i dont want to have to chaneg the motherboard in it too (cost and hassle).

I also think a lot of you are confusing the X850XT (which is a generation or two old) with the X1800GTO, which is what most of the reviews are about. I would really like for someone to point out reviews comparing the two cards or some sort of firsthand experience with the two of them. I know a lot of you say get the 7600, but you didnt address my issues that I experienced with image quality and also didnt provide any sort of reason for it. Just because its newer doesnt make it better. The 7300 is also newer, but its not better than the X850.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh

Kenshin Himura

EDIT: Madman, thank you for that link. It was exactly what i needed, and confirmed my suspicion that the X850 was faster. I think im going to get that as my next card.

Sorry Kenshin, I went off on a tangent there with the shader model 3.0. If your going to get the X850XT more power to you. I'll be glad for you man, but just make sure you download Rivatuner or ATITool and raise the fan speeds to acceptable levels, otherwise you could run the risk of raising the heat and possibly damaging your card. The only links I can come up for that has a performance comparison between the 7600GT and the X850XT would be from Bit Tech. When the 7600GT came out they included a X850XT into the mix. The other place that I saw that did a performance review was at Gamespot under the tech section on performance game guides. They did a range of different video cards and I'm pretty sure they added the X850XT in some of the game benchmarks. If you want I can post the links for some of the reviews. I wouldnt be surprised if the X850XT can beatdown my 7600GT. But good luck with the X850XT.

[InsaneManiac]

Quieter and it consumes less power. If it HAS to be between a 7600GT and an X850XT PE, then I've already stated the 7600GT is newer tech and you should get it if only for that purpose alone. You'll thank yourself later.
New tech isnt always the better.

[rainless]

The shader model issue? Show me some games where i am noticably losing a major amount of visual candy and then perhaps i will admit that its an issue. As for the longevity, i suspect that by the time 3.0 is the minimum that a 7600GT will not be sufficient. Further, the X850XT was consistantly about 20-40% faster than the 7600GT, especially with AA, AF, and high resolutions. Slightly faster is a serious understatement (again, thank you madman)

Kenshin Himura

Dude if you want an X850XT then just BUY an X850XT... I mean that's a no brainer isn't it?

You're asking people what their OPINIONS are. And I gave you mine.