View Full Version : 2 pumps and 2 Rads....Yay or Nay?
Hey, Ive another question :D
Im think of running 2 pumps, (same brand and model) And 2 rads....
The reason I ask is because 2 bonnieville h/cs are alot of restriction...As Ive found out.
So would a setup like:
Res~~>Pump1~~>CPUblock~~>Chipsetblock~~>Rad1~~>Pump2~~>VGAblock~~>Rad2~~>Res
Would that work? The res would be rather small, Im not sure how long a t-line would take to bleed...probably awhile.
The pumps would probably a DD MAg 2 LE, or another one of the lowes pumps Im using.
Maviryk
09-26-06, 06:22 PM
Put the pumps right after each other, it will save you in bleeding...
Really?
I didnt think there was much use to putting 2 pump inline with each other? Errr...what about paraelle?
Sorta like...
/pump\
~~~< >~~~~
\pump/
Err...that might be to much....tubeing and bends...
zebkoolindc
09-26-06, 06:48 PM
If you are going with two rads put them in parallel, 1/4 the restriction of a single rad. Then you only need one pump.
Maviryk
09-26-06, 08:44 PM
Putting two pumps together in parallel will increase how fast the water will try to go. Putting them in series will increase how hard the water pushes through the loop. That and it is easier to route.
SiGfever
09-26-06, 09:13 PM
Put the two pumps in series and buy one good rad. :beer:
Hmm.... :evil:
Runs off to evil drawing board...Muhahahah....
Im going to get 2 of those mag pumps and experiment.
Have a look gere for a discussion on multiple pump systems
http://www.pumpworld.com/parallel_pumping_identical.htm
Immortal_Hero
09-27-06, 07:24 AM
If you have two pumps and 2 rads it would be best to setup 2 loops. Set up a loop for the CPU and anohter for the GPU...
Maviryk
09-27-06, 07:44 AM
If you have two pumps and 2 rads it would be best to setup 2 loops. Set up a loop for the CPU and anohter for the GPU...
Red coolant works better than green.
Got any proof to back that up? It doesn't seem practical to me. I see no reason for separate loops.
If he was using jet impingement a pair of pumps in series would help due to the increase in turbulence from the extra head.
As for putting radiators in parallel, some say that doing so reduces the turbulent flow inside the core and less water gets cooled off.
I have my D5 pushing through a Storm, Maze4, and a pair of Heatercores in parallel. It is overkill for what I run but I can use a single fan for both heatercores.
Given the choice I would rather have two pumps in series along with the radiators in series.
Sleepy_Steve
09-27-06, 07:46 AM
Hmm, how about pumps in series and rads in parallel?
How much do bonivile heatercores cost anyway?
Maviryk
09-27-06, 08:04 AM
1977 Chevette Heatercore (no ac) costs $20.01 from Autozone with overnight shipping(to the store).
Fits 2x120mm fans perfectly. The stock pipes can be cut down and works perfect for stretching 1/2inch tubing over.
Only caveat is that if you want any color other than copper and braze, you'd have to put in 15 minutes of painting. That and heatercores are 1 1/2inch thick, so using a shroud and/or a 120x38mm fan is preferable over a quiet 120x25mm fan.
Sleepy_Steve
09-27-06, 08:32 AM
Ahh -- time for me to make a new thread :D
zebkoolindc
09-27-06, 09:30 AM
Putting rads in parallel might reduce turbulence in them because each gets half the flow, but.
You will have more overall flow, the restriction of the rad is basiclly eliminated.
How much will half the flow reduce turbulence? Water is flowing through thin pipes/fins, it must be pretty turbulent no matter what.
I think parrallel rad is better than series. Less restriction.
Zeb
nikhsub1
09-27-06, 10:34 AM
OK a few things here. The MAGII's are horrible pumps... buy ONE GOOD pump instead of 2 crappy pumps. D5, DDC Ultra etc. I prefer to have multi pumps together in the loop - Pump > Pump > Rest of system. As for rads in series or parallel, series is generally better but parallel is a consideration. Each rad is at peak efficiency in parallel, that is they both are getting the same temp liquid delivered to them. In series one rad will be less efficient due to first rad cooling the water. IMO series generally works better though.
zebkoolindc - 2 rads in parallel is NOT 1/4 the restriction of 1 rad - the restriction to each rad is HALVED which is like running 1 rad.
zebkoolindc
09-27-06, 11:21 AM
Nikhsub
Doens't pressure drop go with the square of the flow. So if you cut flow in half the pressure drop is 1/4?
Maviryk
09-27-06, 11:28 AM
Restriction is not the same thing as pressure drop.
What about just one LONG rad, Such as modding the tanks on 2 bonnie cores to make a double Heatercore. Just a though, Im throwing out most of my ideas here. Ill probably spring for one D5 and get another later if the MAGIIs are really that bad. I knew they flowed slightly less...
I thought flow rate was constant no matter where you put the pumps?
Its just the pressue that has changed right?
Moto7451
09-28-06, 06:44 PM
Do you already have the Mag IIs? If not I'd consider buying a DDC+ or D5 instead. Those are far better pumps and will out perform the two Mags I'm sure.
No I dont, I wont be purchasing them until I get some other stuff done...Probably mid october. But I think Im going to try for 2 D5s off dangerden.com as I have to order parts for my TDX block anyway. Unless something comes up in the classifieds here.
Dragoon42
09-28-06, 09:58 PM
why bother with two pumps? ^^
Seems like you're a budget, scrap the 2nd pump and the 2x HC and pickup a pa120.3.
Actualy, I first have to finish the case all this crap is going to be going in LOL...
Im kinda on a budget, but Im taking my time anyway, so thats not to much of an problem at this point. The reason I want a second pump is the l33t'ness
(is there such a word?) and extra performance...even if there isnt much. Ill be trying different ways to see what works best, and whats overkill. :D I mean, it cant hurt anything except if I spring a leak. Which would be very bad.... :eek: This is all preplanning to make my build close as possible to what I want.
I mean, maybe this to much but I wanna do it right.
Maviryk
09-28-06, 10:54 PM
Eh, dont' bother with the second pump. If you want cheap and overkill just put the 2 heatercores in parallel. It will be more than enough for what you're running at the moment.
Yeah at the moment.... I may just, like I said earlier, get one D5 and get another later on. Im avoiding the MaAGII's since after reading some reviews, 2 of them would be the same as one D5 in the end...At least thats my conclusion...
Moto7451
09-28-06, 11:44 PM
My bro runs a Mag II and its been working well. I think that a lot of the problems happened when CSP started making "take apart" pumps that weren't meant to be used and they ended up being accidentally shipped to distributors. Those pumps lacked the sealant required to keep the electronics and the motor from being water cooled ;).
In any case, its better to go for a single D5 or DDC+ over two CSP Mags.
r32speed
09-29-06, 01:01 AM
Are you truly going to push your system to the point you are going to need that much cooling though? I thought about a second rad but I currently running a BIXII and one D5 on just my cpu and I am cranking 3.8ghz out of my E6600 and the max temp I am getting running BOINC full time crunching is 41ºc.
Dragoon42
09-29-06, 01:51 AM
heatercores = $40
D5 = $70
total of $110. Just get a PA120.3. I think this will outperform 2x heatercores. Then again, i've never seen a pa120.3 go against a double rad setup.
Sleepy_Steve
09-29-06, 05:43 AM
But just that rad you mentioned is $135 (dangerden) -- not including $70 for the D5 pump.
Using two heatercores would likley net him similar preformance for nearly $100 less than dual heatercores would. If he is trying to keep costs down, that seems to be the obvious choice.
I'm trying to figure out what he needs two dual heatercores to cool in the first place. We are talking about a CPU, GPU, and chipset. A single dual heatercore with a decent pump will cool that all day long. If I was looking however at how to best spend some money, I would first buy a DDC with a Delrin top from Petrastechshop (when it becomes available in the very near future). And then if I could afford to, I would spend a few bucks and simplify things and get a PA120.2 or PA160. They are significantly less restrictive in the first place than a heatercore, and are far more efficient as well. I fortunately caught a 20% off coupon from DD about 2 months ago and got my pa20.3 for $105 shipped. :)
Well, I alrdy have the 2 heatercores lol, and I did read up on the Petra Derlin and DDC, I would rather stick with a D5, as both the top (appox $25) and pump(75),....unless they make a sort of combo deal. Would run more than a single D5.
Last night I figured out the whole rad situation and I cant wait for the Chieftec case I got off TUK101 to get here so I can start hacking and .dremeling. If it goes right It'll be extremely queit and work well. I have 2 Triblade Nidec Beta V fans alrdy from some old Compaq servers. The 2 main reasons I want 2 Rads and 2 pumps is, closes to ambients as possible and of course the l33tness....:D :beer:
The problem is that the two dual heatercores may or may not result in a measurable real world difference over one dual heatercore. Two heatercores and the extra tubing adds more restriction, especially if you have to do gymnastics to get the tubing to route well as is often the case with two cores. It is all a balancing act. Although I realize cost is definitely an issue, a PA120.3 is going to net you the best temps as far as a rad is concerned due to the fact it is going to have a minimal pressure drop and is more efficient. I'm not trying to say not to use the two heatercores, especially since you already have them, but just realize that using them both may or may not give you the actual result you want over just using one.
Immortal_Hero
09-29-06, 12:05 PM
The extra restriction could actually hurt your temps in the long run too... just have to try it...
Yeah Im definitly going to try it, And I just realized I actualy have these 2 fans:
NBM (http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HAR&Product_Code=TM99FAN4350&Category_Code=FAN)
Nidec (http://america.hongfaith.com/ServerSpareParts/Fan%20Modules/120mm%20Server%20Fan.htm)
Damn.... :eek:
Dragoon42
09-29-06, 01:50 PM
Yeah Im definitly going to try it, And I just realized I actualy have these 2 fans:
NBM (http://www.herbach.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HAR&Product_Code=TM99FAN4350&Category_Code=FAN)
Nidec (http://america.hongfaith.com/ServerSpareParts/Fan%20Modules/120mm%20Server%20Fan.htm)
Damn.... :eek:
I don't know how loud that first fan is, but that second one listed as 48.x
Have you tried looking into delta fans? They're just as loud and move more. I think the 150cfm fans @ 52dba if i'm not wrong.
Those are loud fans ^^
Heh, yeah I know LOL
But they were free and Im Def anyway so it doesnt matter heh. I actualy have been looking at the Deltas and Panoflos...
Like these?
Deltas and Panos (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/120mmfans.html)
:edit:
Whoa, they even have these suckers...
GFB1212VHW (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/de12gf.html)
:edit:
Whoa, they even have these suckers...
GFB1212VHW (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/de12gf.html)
They are also available in the 40mm size.
QuietIce
09-30-06, 01:00 AM
The extra restriction could actually hurt your temps in the long run too... just have to try it... I have dual heater cores and my idle temps run 3°C above ambient. And even though I have 2 MCP655's ONE of them running at less than full speed (P4 on the #1 pump) can keep everything cool. If you've got the space and the fan(s) for it dual heater cores match a high-priced PC rad any day ...
razetek
09-30-06, 12:36 PM
I tend to think dual heater cores, are a little over doing it. But there are advantages as well. Every time you add something like a heater core, remember you are adding restriction (and not in a good way like turbulance in a block) Which can (and most often does) adversly effect the set-up. Now that said, there are advantages with their being a second heat exchanger, so it just has to be weighed out.
Again, I think dual is 99.99% of the time overkill or bad (unless their is a size or placement restriction and u cannot use a larger rad)
GL with however u go!
QuietIce
09-30-06, 01:04 PM
BTW - My 2x heater cores are in parallel - pumps in series. Day-to-day both pumps are on the P3 setting ...
Heh, yeah I know LOL
But they were free and Im Def anyway so it doesnt matter heh. I actualy have been looking at the Deltas and Panoflos...
Like these?
Deltas and Panos (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/120mmfans.html)
:edit:
Whoa, they even have these suckers...
GFB1212VHW (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/de12gf.html)
50 BUCKS?!
Yeah right! I won't even pay $15 for fans...it's simply ridiculous. I buy nearly all my fans for 5-8 dollars, many places mark them up way too high. The fans I have aren't crap fans either, I have a Panoflo and some Sunons.
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