View Full Version : Too much for 1 pump?
Will 1 Swiftech MCP655 12V Pump push through all this:
1 Storm (old revision)
1 BIX 3
1 ThermoChill PA 120.3 Radiator
4 meters 1/2 inch ID tygon
Is that too much for 1 pump?
I have 2 rads because summer is cummin to Aus and its really really hot over here.
Immortal_Hero
10-05-06, 09:14 PM
4 METERS OF TUBING!!! WOW... It'll will do it but I don't know how well...
nikhsub1
10-05-06, 09:59 PM
The 2 rads is a waste and will just hurt flowrate - temps will likely be warmer with both rads at the CPU. Ditch the BIX. You could have 25 rads and it won't lower the coolant level below ambient...
I do want to keep the BIX3.... othewise its a paper weight.... should I get a second pump nick?
Sleepy_Steve
10-05-06, 10:17 PM
People run multiple radiators all the time.
In theory it is better to have them running in parrallel, However that is a point of contention given what people seem to see in practice, and can lead to a rather lengthy debate on thermodynamics.
However I belive that is a D5 pump, and that is a decently strong pump. I think it should have no trouble with that, but it may have an easier time if you run the rads in parallel due to the difference in resistance.
If you put the BIXIII into the loop, it is basically going to be a paperweight anyway. That Thermochill is the best rad on the market. The BIXIII is only going to further restrict your flow and not cool your CPU 1/10th of a degree cooler, and as nik said, it will probably hurt your CPU temp.
What in the world are you going to do with 4 meters of tubing?
nikhsub1
10-05-06, 11:16 PM
People run multiple radiators all the time.
Yes but that doesn't make it the right thing to do... The ONLY way an additional rad will help is if the first rad is overloaded with heat. The PA120.3 wont even break a sweat with just a cpu. Point is, whatever water temps you get with JUST THE PA, they will NOT BE BETTER WITH THE ADDITION OF THE BIX!
Captain Helghas
10-05-06, 11:21 PM
What in the world are you going to do with 4 meters of tubing?
More volume = better cooling!!
Sigh... If only fallaces could be true.
QuietIce
10-06-06, 09:04 AM
Will 1 Swiftech MCP655 12V Pump push through all this:
1 Storm (old revision)
1 BIX 3
1 ThermoChill PA 120.3 Radiator
4 meters 1/2 inch ID tygon Yes, it will! :)
I've experimented with my loop and one of my MCP655's will push through the loop with no problem. In addition to what you see below I also have ~15' (3.5m) of 1/2" tubing. I can even lower the pump speed a little (to P4 or P4.2 depending on which pump) without increasing CPU temps.
BTW - If you're going to use two rads put them in parallel and get some good fans on them ...
More volume = better cooling!!
Sigh... If only fallaces could be true.More volume =slower heat up is true though. A 55gal drum will keep the water near ambient for an hour or so! If you have the space and if your floor can stand 450 lbs!!!
It takes quite a lot of energy to raise 1L of water by 1 deg C.
The more water you have the more energy (heat) it takes to change the water's temperature.
You want a quick cup of coffee you add only a small amout of water to the kettle so it will only take a min to two to boil. If you fill the kettle with tons of water it will take forever to boil.
As for the BIX3 + thermochil.... Im thinking of gettin 2 pumps so even if the BIX restricts some of the flow the second pump will compensate for this anyway.
ctrl_alt_del_
10-09-06, 09:45 AM
Yes but that doesn't make it the right thing to do... The ONLY way an additional rad will help is if the first rad is overloaded with heat. The PA120.3 wont even break a sweat with just a cpu. Point is, whatever water temps you get with JUST THE PA, they will NOT BE BETTER WITH THE ADDITION OF THE BIX!
Please listen to the man - adding the BIX to the loop will do NOTHING, if not hurt your temps. The MCP655 is more than enough for the PA and the CPU block.
One Bull
10-09-06, 10:16 AM
More volume =slower heat up is true though. A 55gal drum will keep the water near ambient for an hour or so! If you have the space and if your floor can stand 450 lbs!!!
Yeah, but it has to be cooled down again, so you'll only have benefit from it at the startup the temps will be climbing .7°C per minute less, if you have 2 liters extra in a loop with a 100W cpu. I don't know if that really makes the difference
LandShark
10-09-06, 12:49 PM
The 2 rads is a waste and will just hurt flowrate - temps will likely be warmer with both rads at the CPU. Ditch the BIX. You could have 25 rads and it won't lower the coolant level below ambient...
what Nik said!! one of the reason is the PA120.3 is MORE than enough to (just) cool the strom, plus no matter how many rad you put in the loop, it will not cool it lower than ambient temp (normal room temp water)!! now, what's the point to put in more rad IF you can't even heat up the 120.3 at the first place?? plus all the pressure, flow rate you'll lose w/ the BIX!!
oh, yes, the 655 should be fine with the setup.
nikhsub1
10-09-06, 02:21 PM
what Nik said!! one of the reason is the PA120.3 is MORE than enough to (just) cool the strom, plus no matter how many rad you put in the loop, it will not cool it lower than ambient temp (normal room temp water)!! now, what's the point to put in more rad IF you can't even heat up the 120.3 at the first place?? plus all the pressure, flow rate you'll lose w/ the BIX!!
oh, yes, the 655 should be fine with the setup.
*sigh* sometimes folks just won't listen to those that know... Adding more rads to the OP's proposed setup is like running 110 octane in a Ford Pinto, it just won't benefit from it at all.
Senater_Cache
10-09-06, 04:07 PM
yep...except that running ultra high octane fuel wouldnt really have negative effects, the added tubing and restriction from the 2nd 120.3 rad will.
QuietIce
10-09-06, 04:51 PM
If he wants to run two rads there's no problem as long as he runs them in parallel. I'm not saying it would help any to add the extra rad but I guess there would be a *bling* factor in some circles and at least there wouldn't be much (if any) more restriction that way.
Adding more rads to the OP's proposed setup is like running 110 octane in a Ford Pinto, it just won't benefit from it at all. ROFLMAO!
yep...except that running ultra high octane fuel wouldnt really have negative effects, the added tubing and restriction from the 2nd 120.3 rad will. You'd be lucky if the poor little Pinto would even start unless someone had shoe-horned in a properly built 429 ... :eek:
CutterJon
10-10-06, 07:15 AM
It takes quite a lot of energy to raise 1L of water by 1 deg C.
The more water you have the more energy (heat) it takes to change the water's temperature.
You want a quick cup of coffee you add only a small amout of water to the kettle so it will only take a min to two to boil. If you fill the kettle with tons of water it will take forever to boil.
True, but you'd need a lot more water than what can be held in 4m of 1/2" tubing to make a difference. What we rely on for cooling is the flow of the water, not the quantity.
As for the BIX3 + thermochil.... Im thinking of gettin 2 pumps so even if the BIX restricts some of the flow the second pump will compensate for this anyway.
Read this thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77260). From what I've read, a PA120.3 can dissipate about 1kW of heat. Adding a BIX does nothing to improve the loop's performance. Almost certainly you'll have to spend extra money on a second pump to compensate for the added restriction of the second rad and extra tubing or suffer a penalty in performance. To extend the Pinto analogy above, it's like shoe-horning in the 429 to take advantage of the higher octane fuel in a car that only drives in stop-and-go traffic.
If you want to install the 2nd rad for the bling factor, by-all-means go ahead. However, if it's just to keep it from sitting on a shelf, then better to keep it on the shelf.
Bugsmasher
10-10-06, 07:47 AM
Summation of what most people have stated:
You *could* put 20 rads and 20 pumps in your loop if you so desired...and achieve nothing in terms of increasing your cooling performance. If anything you will worsen the performance by adding another heat source to your loop althought it may be almost unmeasurable. The only way you would need the BIX is if you managed to find a way to dump several hundreds of watts of heat into your loop which then would overload your Thermo. I suppose ya could keep adding pumps till it was necessary ;)
Sorry I think some of you think I use the extensive amout of tubes just to hold water this is not true. My dual bay res holds a bit over a Litre of water. The total volume of water in the loop would be about 2 Litres. I understand the flow is what cools the water but quantity also helps to a certain extent.
If find it takes about two hours before the rad starts to warm up.
(The kettle and amout of water theroy)
I am concerned because right now here in Australia its 35-42 deg C out there. (apparently we are in for the hottest summer ever) The air con in the house doesnt quite reach my room. So the room tem is like 35 deg C or more.
Im really just want to find a better way to cool my loop in this hot enviroment.... I already have push pull on my rad with panflo fans.
Inspite of adding more rads and pumps what else is there to do? Im open to all sugestions....
35°C Ambient! Buy a portable air conditioner.
LandShark
10-10-06, 10:41 PM
Sorry I think some of you think I use the extensive amout of tubes just to hold water this is not true. My dual bay res holds a bit over a Litre of water. The total volume of water in the loop would be about 2 Litres. I understand the flow is what cools the water but quantity also helps to a certain extent.
If find it takes about two hours before the rad starts to warm up. http://www.ocforums.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=4734514
Edit/Delete Message
(The kettle and amout of water theroy)
I am concerned because right now here in Australia its 35-42 deg C out there. (apparently we are in for the hottest summer ever) The air con in the house doesnt quite reach my room. So the room tem is like 35 deg C or more.
Im really just want to find a better way to cool my loop in this hot enviroment.... I already have push pull on my rad with panflo fans.
Inspite of adding more rads and pumps what else is there to do? Im open to all sugestions....
no matter what, your temp will stay the same degree above ambient temp in most case regardless the ambient temp. means at 30c ambient temp, cpu loaded at 45c, when ambient temp raise to 35c, cpu temp will also raise to 50c! the only way you can change/beat that is chilled/iced water.
CutterJon
10-11-06, 07:58 AM
Sorry I think some of you think I use the extensive amout of tubes just to hold water this is not true. My dual bay res holds a bit over a Litre of water. The total volume of water in the loop would be about 2 Litres. I understand the flow is what cools the water but quantity also helps to a certain extent.
If find it takes about two hours before the rad starts to warm up.
(The kettle and amout of water theroy)
I am concerned because right now here in Australia its 35-42 deg C out there. (apparently we are in for the hottest summer ever) The air con in the house doesnt quite reach my room. So the room tem is like 35 deg C or more.
Im really just want to find a better way to cool my loop in this hot enviroment.... I already have push pull on my rad with panflo fans.
Inspite of adding more rads and pumps what else is there to do? Im open to all sugestions....
Ambient is the theoritical best you can do with simple watercooling. To get CPU temps below ambient, you'd need to move to something more aggressive like a chilled-liquid, phase change, or peltier based cooling system. However, if you go sub-ambient then you also need to deal with condensation. The Extreme Cooling forum here is a good place to start.
The simplest thing to do in your case might be to try lowering your ambient temp. If a room air conditioner will work in your situation, I suggest trying that first.
Moto7451
10-11-06, 09:49 PM
Use the second rad for a VGA loop and run some quiet fans on it :).
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