Heatsinks on top of heatspreaders? [Archive]

hyperbob

11-25-01, 04:40 PM

I am thinking of getting the thermaltake ramsinks for 10 bucks at my local computer shop. I have a leadtek gf2ultra. The design of the cooling is very strange. The heatsink for the core covers lots of area but the fins are very short and it has a dinky little fan. Then there are the ram heatspreaders. The only thing to cool the oced ram are heatspreader plates that could burn your finger off if you touched it while playing a 3d game or something. Also you can't remove the heatspreader plates without removing the entire core heatsink :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Since they get sooooooo hot:mad: would it be a good thing if I take those TT ram sinks and stick them on top of the heatspreader plates? If so what do I use to stick the ram sinks on? thermal epoxy? How do I apply it? (BTW the heat spreaders are aluminum or some type of cheesy metal) PLEASE REPLY!

funnyperson1

11-25-01, 06:20 PM

try epoxying the ramsinks to the back of the chips, doing it to the heatspreader wont help much...

Silversinksam

11-26-01, 02:11 AM

I have the exact card and had the same situation,

I replaced the leadtek Heatsink with this,

Alpha pal 15u Sold buy coolerguys.com or rackmountpro.com

http://www.coolerguys.com/pictures/pal15.jpg

Replaced the useless flat memory heatspeaders with these from radio shack ($1.59 ea) But I added silver bases to them, but they are good without the silver bases also.

http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/ProductImage/276/276-1368.jpg

And it looks similiar to this:

http://www.ocshoot.com/ultra/hot/assy.jpg

I would affix it all using Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive as its Totally non electricly conductive and hopefully you wont have any problems.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/images/alumina_adhesive_med.jpg

hyperbob

11-26-01, 08:26 PM

I am a bit scared about taking the heatsink off...:( :( :( If I do something wrong I will have wasted 240 bucks. BTW if I decided to do it, how do I get it off? Also how would sticking sinks on the back of the RAM work? What kind of epoxy should I use?

hyperbob

11-26-01, 08:27 PM

Also what if I put on 2 long ram sinks like the ones from the thermaltake ram sink package? would that work better than the individual ones from radio shack?

funnyperson1

11-26-01, 09:12 PM

should work tha same as the radio shack ones, also either get your card real hot, and wiggle off the heatspreader (gaming:)) or get it real cold (freezer 30mins) and pry it off with your hands...

Über~PhLuBB

11-26-01, 09:42 PM

If it helps at all, click on "GeForce 2 Ultra" in my signature below. You can see how I did my thang.

Mine came right off, I didn't need a screwdriver, or put it in the freezer. The adhesive used to hold the dinky HSF on was quite alot harder to get off... I had to use a razor blade and isopropyl alcohol to get it off.

Silversinksam

11-26-01, 11:49 PM

Uber is right the Leadtek GF2 Ultra has pushpins on the GPU heatsink and pushpins for the ram heatspreaders. It should come right off with no heating up or freezing.

The ramsinks you have for the thermaltake package are fine....The reason I like using individual sinks from Radio Shack is that you can see both sides of the memory chip so not to apply arctic silver thermal adhesive on the Pins.

Get Arctic Alumina adhesive and you will be safer.

Silversinksam

11-26-01, 11:52 PM

Uber,

What do you have under that metal plate on the backside of your card to keep everything from shorting out?

http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=292428

Über~PhLuBB

11-27-01, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by Silversinksam
Uber,

What do you have under that metal plate on the backside of your card to keep everything from shorting out?

http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=292428

I have a small "riser" which holds the plate off the card. I filed it into a shape that fits between the components on the back of the card (Resisters and what not.) It's shaped like a square with in-turned corners:
****___
*_l*******l_
l*************l
l*************l
¯l____l¯

It fits in the area directly behind the center of the GPU, on the back site. I used a little square of Frag Tape between the riser and the PCB, and another square of Frag Tape between the riser and the retaining plate. The Frag tape also serves to transfer heat into the retaining plate, aiding cooling.

http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=292430

hyperbob

11-27-01, 01:23 PM

What is better the PAL 15U or the TT Blue Orb? BTW would the fasteners on the BLUEORB work on my card since mine has fasteners too?

Silversinksam

11-27-01, 03:13 PM

Hands down the Alpha 15u trounces the blue orb, Orange orb, that new tin plated orb and the low profile Iu golden orb.

The Alpha pal 15u will outperform all Standard aftermarket Gpu coolers, but there are a few great choices other than the Alpha pal 15u......Look around for a IU cooler, your Video card will thank you.

hyperbob

11-27-01, 03:25 PM

Yes but isn't the PAL for CPUs? It's got a clip. If I attach it to the core with thermal adhesive I don't need the pegs right?

Über~PhLuBB

11-27-01, 03:27 PM

That's correct, you would probably have to pry off the clips and use ASII (or the like) thermal adhesive.

hyperbob

11-27-01, 05:13 PM

Here's a pic of the card. The heatsink is large but why does it have such crappy cooling?

hyperbob

11-27-01, 05:14 PM

another pic of the card with crappy cooling. notice the pegs holding everything down. The guys who designed this must have been drunk:beer: :beer: :beer:

Silversinksam

11-27-01, 05:14 PM

The Alpha pal 15u comes unassembled and the clip isnt attached when you buy it anyway.

Arctic Alumina Adhesive is the way to attach it. Just clean the GPU with alcohol and apply pressure to the Heatsink until its dried.

hyperbob

11-27-01, 05:14 PM

oops forgot the pic

funnyperson1

11-27-01, 05:33 PM

why dont you take both heatsinks off, and use thermal Paste to put it back on, with new ramsinks?, should cool a lot better than the paste they have on now...

Über~PhLuBB

11-27-01, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by hyperbob
Here's a pic of the card. The heatsink is large but why does it have such crappy cooling?

They have crappy cooling because of the tinsy little fan and because their "RAMsinks" don't have any fins, they're nothing more then head spreaders.

funnyperson1

11-27-01, 08:30 PM

if i were you id strap on an 80mm fan to that huge heatsink....

Über~PhLuBB

11-27-01, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by funnyperson1
if i were you id strap on an 80mm fan to that huge heatsink....

Then it still wouldn't do a lick of good for colling RAM.

funnyperson1

11-27-01, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Über~PhLuBB

Then it still wouldn't do a lick of good for colling RAM.

true, but i woulda popped those sorry excuses for ramsinks off along time ago!

hyperbob

11-28-01, 03:23 PM

ok how do I break the pegs off? I need to take the heatsink and ram heatspreaders off

Über~PhLuBB

11-28-01, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by hyperbob
ok how do I break the pegs off? I need to take the heatsink and ram heatspreaders off

Good god, don't break em off! No sense ruining it, you could use the old HSF on another card.

There are pins. Look at the pegs from the top. You'll see a pin going down through the center. Pull it up with a pair of needlenose pliers (but not OUT, just up about 3mm or so). Then it should pretty much come right off (There are 2 pins, one in each peg).

Silversinksam

11-28-01, 09:49 PM

Uber is once again giving you great advise, but if your a 'Klutz'

Go to the supermarket and buy a .99 cent PLASTIC tweezers to get those push pins out. With Plastic there is no chance or slipping and breaking a trace wire or the electronics in the PCB board

http://www.2spi.com/catalog/tweezers/images/pt001-ab.jpg

:burn:

Maximus Nickus

11-29-01, 03:04 PM

Good for a Klutz...

hyperbob

11-29-01, 04:50 PM

I have decided to go for the orange orb. Where is a good place to order? I can get the Thermal Take heatsinks at my local computer shop. Also where can I order the AS thermal adhesive?
BTW do I need to put a thin layer of ASII between the Orange orb and the GPU since I am using pegs to attatch the HSF? Also does the orange orb pack come with pegs that work?

Silversinksam

11-29-01, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by hyperbob
I have decided to go for the orange orb. Where is a good place to order? I can get the Thermal Take heatsinks at my local computer shop. Also where can I order the AS thermal adhesive?
BTW do I need to put a thin layer of ASII between the Orange orb and the GPU since I am using pegs to attatch the HSF? Also does the orange orb pack come with pegs that work?

You can get it here for $9.50 (http://www.geekchicpc.com/thermaltake_orange_orb.html)

The best place to get Artctic Silver thermal products is SVC ( Cheap and FREE SHIPPING) (http://www.svcompucycle.com/thermalgrease.html)

And without thermal paste the Orb will be useless, make sure you use some.

hyperbob

11-29-01, 05:30 PM

sam is cheapchicpc.com any good? I couldn't find them on resellerratings.com
What should I use? Arctic Alumina or that other Arctic Silver Adhesive for the ram sinks? Is Alumina thermal adhesive?

Silversinksam

11-29-01, 06:15 PM

Hyperbob,

I have never dealt with cheapchickpc but finding vendors with the orange orb is difficult, maybe someone else knows of a different vendor.

To be honest with you If the Alpha pal 15 u is out of your pricerange, consider this:

AOC copper IU cooler for $14.99 (http://www.nexfan.com/29/171.htm?953)

or even this:

Thermaltake low profile IU orb for $9.99 (http://www.nexfan.com/29/164.htm?953)

To affix the ramsinks ABSOLUTLY USE Arctic Alumina as its totally non electricly conductive and is safer than Arctic Silver Adhesive, especially for the ram sinks which if you screw up your SOL in most cases. Arctic Alumina will also work well from what Nevin at www.arcticsilver.com told me is that Alumina adhesive has the same bonding strength as Arctic Silver adhesive.

REMEMBER clean the gpu and ram with Alcohol well and apply some pressure to alleviate any concerns about it coming off. Actually go to www.arcticsilver.com and follow the directions.

Sidewindercomputers.com is an excellent vendor and they sell it for $9 (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/therinmat.html)

hyperbob

11-29-01, 06:39 PM

Sam I found a place that carries the new CrystalOrb. It's at newegg.com for 13 bucks. Is it better than the orange orb?

Silversinksam

11-29-01, 06:50 PM

The crystal orb's performance is significantly, though not amazingly, better than that of the Orange Orb.

And Newegg is a great vendor.

hyperbob

11-29-01, 07:05 PM

the crystal orb fan seems to be better than the orange orb fan. I think I will get that one. Are the holes perfectly aligned for every card with peg holes? What I mean is will I be able to use the peg holes?

hyperbob

11-29-01, 07:16 PM

also since it has a blorb fan, does it mean its bad? I have heard bad things about blorb fans. Is it true?

Silversinksam

11-29-01, 07:16 PM

Bob,

Here's the layout:

http://www.thermaltake.com/images/products/dimentionA1178.gif

Ive never tried a crystal orb and it may or may not fit in the GF2 ultra hsf holes, if it doesnt get the arctic alumina adhesive as your gonna use that anyway to affix your ramsinks.

hyperbob

11-29-01, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by hyperbob
also since it has a blorb fan, does it mean its bad? I have heard bad things about blorb fans. Is it true?
Yeah that's true, but I should measure it just in case. Is a small tube of alumina enough? Also do AGP cards lose their drivers like PCI cards if you take them out of the slot?

Silversinksam

11-29-01, 07:38 PM

Bob,

How much am I getting per answer? A dollar:p

nah just kiddin

That tube of arctic alumina will be enough and then some.

Maximus Nickus

11-30-01, 11:57 AM

Where do you get the Alumina stuff from....
Does the 8500 have the holes for the crystal orb?

hyperbob

11-30-01, 04:58 PM

where are the pins for the heatsink located? I see the ones for the ram heatspreaders but not the HSF pegs

Silversinksam

11-30-01, 05:05 PM

http://www.leadtek.com/gf2ultra/gf2ultra-pic.jpg

The holes are those weird little opaque white pushpins in the heatsink, they are slightly different than the spring loaded ram pushpins.

You can get Arctic Alumina adhesive for $9 at www.sidewindercomputers.com (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/therinmat.html)

hyperbob

11-30-01, 06:22 PM

at svc its only $3.75

Silversinksam

11-30-01, 08:00 PM

Bob,

SVC doesnt sell Arctic alumina Adhesive, what you saw was arctic alumina thermal paste.

hyperbob

12-01-01, 11:00 AM

wow geez thanks sam. almost bought the wrong one!:D

Maximus Nickus

12-01-01, 04:59 PM

Is it made by the same people who make AS2? Is it like Epoxy where u have to dilute it, so then it would be conductive again!!!

Do'h!!!! Why is it good for doin ramsinks?

DOES THE RETAIL 8500 have push pin holes or not?

Silversinksam

12-01-01, 05:56 PM

Nick,

Yes Arctic Alumina and Arctic Alumina adhesive is made by the same people, Arcticsilver.com, the guy that invented it is Nevin over there.

The reason Arctic Alumina adhesive is better for ramsinks is that its made out of ceramics and not out of Silver yet the performance is as good.

The fact that its totally non electricly conductive makes it the better choice for ramsinks as many ppl have accidently got Arctic Silver Thermal adhesive on thier ram pins and destroying thier video cards, with Arctic Alumina this shouldnt be a problem.

I spent about a half hour talking to Neven at ArcticSilver and we discussed several issues, primarily the adhesive bonding strength of his adhesives. I will be running some tests for him shortly and maybe he will post my results.
Regarding the Radeon, Ill let you know as soon as I get one. Should have one soon.

When I get one the first thing im doing is slapping a Alpha pal 15u on it with arctic silver alumina adhesive

Maximus Nickus

12-01-01, 06:01 PM

Ummm mine should come next Fri....from ebuyer.

hyperbob

12-01-01, 06:12 PM

are there some steo by step instructions for applying this stuff? never handled thermal adhesive before

Silversinksam

12-01-01, 09:09 PM

Here's instructions

http://www.arcticsilver.com/instructions.htm

hyperbob

12-01-01, 09:43 PM

well since I am new to this thermal adhesive stuff could you simplify those instructions? My head is spinning from reading all of those steps...:confused: :confused:

Silversinksam

12-02-01, 02:31 AM

Ok here's the easy instructions.

Take the old heatsink off and the ramsink heatspreader.

Make this decision:

A: Its a permenent mod( just use Part A and Part B Arctic alumina adhesive)
B: You make it so you can remove the heatsink for your next card

OK Clean all the old heatsink paste off your card with a razorblade followed by a good cleaning with alcohol.

I recommend you buy both Arctic Alumina and Arctic Alumina adhesive,

Mix in this ratio:

1 Part Arctic alumina adhesive part A
1 Part Arctic alumina adhesive part B
1 Part Arctic alumina

Then with a credic card apply a very thin layer to the new heatsink and apply pressure to it with a dictionary but if you have a clamp thats the best way.

Now the ramsinks clean them the same as you did the GPU, take your time with them, apply the same mixture to the ram, leave a little space(1/8th of an inch) all the way around the memory and place the new ramsinks on top apply a little pressure if possible and your done.

If your asking why am I mixing the Arctic Alumina Adhesive and the regular arctic alumina.......This will make it easier to remove the heatsink and ramsinks for your next upgrade.

I used this ratio and my heavy Alpha pal 15u isnt going anywhere.

Maximus Nickus

12-02-01, 05:19 AM

The heatsinks that come with the heatspreaders won't be able to fit on them at the same time as the Heatspreaders, espicially if you have 3 Sticks of memory.

funnyperson1

12-02-01, 05:27 AM

hey nick, the radeons do not have push=pins, youll have to get the Artic-Alumina Adhesive....

Maximus Nickus

12-02-01, 05:48 AM

D'oh!

Oh well they get to liike 300/620 @ stock cooling.

funnyperson1

12-02-01, 08:13 AM

why rest with stock cooling? just order just Artic Alumina Epoxy for like 6-7pounds

hyperbob

12-02-01, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Silversinksam
Ok here's the easy instructions.

Take the old heatsink off and the ramsink heatspreader.

Make this decision:

A: Its a permenent mod( just use Part A and Part B Arctic alumina adhesive)
B: You make it so you can remove the heatsink for your next card

OK Clean all the old heatsink paste off your card with a razorblade followed by a good cleaning with alcohol.

I recommend you buy both Arctic Alumina and Arctic Alumina adhesive,

Mix in this ratio:

1 Part Arctic alumina adhesive part A
1 Part Arctic alumina adhesive part B
1 Part Arctic alumina

Then with a credic card apply a very thin layer to the new heatsink and apply pressure to it with a dictionary but if you have a clamp thats the best way.

Now the ramsinks clean them the same as you did the GPU, take your time with them, apply the same mixture to the ram, leave a little space(1/8th of an inch) all the way around the memory and place the new ramsinks on top apply a little pressure if possible and your done.

If your asking why am I mixing the Arctic Alumina Adhesive and the regular arctic alumina.......This will make it easier to remove the heatsink and ramsinks for your next upgrade.

I used this ratio and my heavy Alpha pal 15u isnt going anywhere.

If I want to use the heatsink for my next video card, I just have to put some thermal paste between the gpu and hsf right? Do I really need to mix the alumina and alum. adehesive together? I am not planning on removing the ram sinks. (they're 10 bucks) Also should I use arctic silver II or just silicone based stuff for the gpu?

donny_paycheck

12-02-01, 09:16 AM

OK I used a blue orb on my GF3.....I am almost positive it's got the same hole pattern as yours. I used AS2 between the orb and gpu and the pushpins to hold it down. For the RAM I used a pair of the thermaltake heatsinks fastened to the RAM with arctic silver thermal epoxy....didn't have alumina at the time but in retrospect I'd use that instead...I was lucky enough to not get any on the leads of the RAM ICs when I did it. I put mine in the freezer for 10 mins and then popped the stock heatsinks off with a screwdriver. I also soldered the blue orb fan directly to the old fan power connector on the card, but this was stupid as on my mobo there's a 3 pin connector right next to the AGP slot. Anyways, this worked for me and would probably work for you. Whatever you do WATCH OUT FOR SHORTS!!! The AS2 epoxy is conductive once it dries. AS2 supposedly isn't but I wouldn't chance it.