I have confirmed that AGTL and vtt voltages are the same. The TUSL-2 is out of spec.

[ol' man]

Just checked and I found out that the AGTL and vtt voltages are related and that indeed there is a high and low spec limit for this.

When cpu is at idle the vtt/AUX/AGTL voltage is not suppose to leave a 1.25v +\- 3% window while at load that figure can be upto +\-9% which would give a maximum vtt voltage of 1.36v. I noticed my vtt/AUX/AGTL stayed at 1.7v no matter what the load. I am trying to download a pic right now to my online host or you can check the data sheets your self if you want at this addy

ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pen...ts/24976501.pdf

For the PIII tualatin chips it will be pg. 29. I didn't check the celery specs but it should be the same too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay I got my online host to work and here is the link to that pic.

http://hhrol.50g.com/agtl_vtt_aux.jpg




Just checked the celery .13u data sheets and in fact they are the same specs as the .13u PIII.

ftp://download.intel.com/design/cel...ts/29859601.pdf


I have confirmed now with 6 different boards that the ASUS TUSL-2 is running these voltages out of spec by a good margine.

The ranges have been from 1.55~1.9v where most are in the 1.65v range.

[MaxMuster]

my asus tusl2-c shows exactly the same values for vcore and aux.... couldn't it be that the board shows vcore as aux in sisoft sandra?

The ranges have been from 1.55~1.9v where most are in the 1.65v range.

Looks like vcore to me...

just a thought

[ol' man]

Originally posted by MaxMuster
my asus tusl2-c shows exactly the same values for vcore and aux.... couldn't it be that the board shows vcore as aux in sisoft sandra?



Looks like vcore to me...

just a thought

No.

A easy way to test that would be too change your vcore a little bit. Change it too 1.825 and then see what the AUX voltage is at. My AUX voltage was at 1.7v no matter what I had the vcore at. If it was at 1.475 the AUX voltage was at 1.7v if the vcore was at 1.825v then the AUX voltage was at 1.7v. You are running out of options. Be part of the solution.

[MaxMuster]

Changed the vcore to 1.8v

This is what Sandra reads:

[MaxMuster]

The above screenshot is from a Coppermine cC0 Celeron II 600@900Mhz, not a Tualatin

[ol' man]

Originally posted by MaxMuster
The above screenshot is from a Coppermine cC0 Celeron II 600@900Mhz, not a Tualatin

Yeah it may be different with a tualatin but possibly you are correct.

Also there may be a problem with the AUX voltages where they run at vcore which would still not be good.

The below pic shows all the vtt pins are and they are on either the side with the cache or the side with the main core of the chip. If it is the side with the cache then it will be hard on the cache, if it is on the side with the main core then it will heat it up more also. This bus is supposed to run at 1.25v. You are saying you are having a problem with AUX running at the same voltage of your vcore but I know someone else that has the TUSL-2 running either a celery cDO or cCO and their voltages are right on where they should be for that chip while their vcore I am sure is running way up around 1.75 to 1.825 at least but once again their AUX voltages are normal. I will find out for sure if the cache is on this side. Get back to ya in a bit. I used a dos command boot disk to flash my bios. As has been said in a different forum best not use the windows flasher.

[MaxMuster]

don't have any problem with my aux voltage :D sisoft sandra is the only tools that shows it (there is a core 1 in mbm), my guess is that sandra just shows vcore as aux... could anybody with a tualatin cpu and an asus tusl2(-c) confirm this?

[ol' man]

The above pin layout was taken from this drawing below where the red lines outline the vtt pin areas so this will confirm if this voltage goes to the cache or the main core.

[Rmcky]

Mine are identical, too. 1.5 for both. Have you ever considered this? The Bios doesn't list a vtt voltage, so I would assume Asus didn't program that into the IC chip. Just because MBM and Sandra pick something up doesn't mean it's necessarily correct. I have an idea that they are simply picking up the core voltage twice and that the vtt isn't even being reported. You think the Asus readings are weird, you should see them from my Soyo board. Absolutely nothing is correct and no way to monitor temps, fans, or voltages. Soyo says they don't care, because after all it's just a cheap board. Funny, it didn't seem so cheap when I bought it, it cost me more than my Tusl2-C did.

Rick

[ol' man]

don't have any problem with my aux voltage sisoft sandra is the only tools that shows it (there is a core 1 in mbm), my guess is that sandra just shows vcore as aux...could anybody with a tualatin cpu and an asus tusl2(-c) confirm this ?

As I said above there was another fella that had his cDO to 1.75fv at least and his bus was in spec apparently for that chip.


You are saying you want someone with a tualatin cpu and tusl-2 to confirm it.

Well I think I have many times now with my setup. It didn't matter what the vcore was at the AUX was always at 1.7v or when the VIO was at 3.7 the AUX would go to 1.9v.


Also it is funny you say you don;t have a problem with your aux voltage when in reality you have no idea what it is at? How can you say you don;t have a problem if you don't know how to read it. If you wanted you could flip your board over and test it with a volometer and that is what Intel recommends for this but why ASUS would not hook it up is beyond me. SOme have it read vcore and others have it read right in sandra. Mine seemed to be right as it didn't change with vcore.

[ol' man]

Originally posted by Rmcky
Mine are identical, too. 1.5 for both. Have you ever considered this? The Bios doesn't list a vtt voltage, so I would assume Asus didn't program that into the IC chip. Just because MBM and Sandra pick something up doesn't mean it's necessarily correct. I have an idea that they are simply picking up the core voltage twice and that the vtt isn't even being reported. You think the Asus readings are weird, you should see them from my Soyo board. Absolutely nothing is correct and no way to monitor temps, fans, or voltages. Soyo says they don't care, because after all it's just a cheap board. Funny, it didn't seem so cheap when I bought it, it cost me more than my Tusl2-C did.

Rick


Yeah I have considered many things but did you change the voltage to see if it is running at the same voltage as your vcore. Some run that way and some don't.

Hey rmcky arn't you the guy that can't get the celery to OC good cause your pci takes a s*** early on ya.


.................edit..................

One other thing have you considered maybe the vtt is running at vcore?

[ol' man]

Here is a pic of the core layout and it would appear that the vtt voltages are for the cache. This would mean it would heat up the cache a little hotter but not necessarilly cause a crash but it would most certainly be hard on it in the long run. There is no reason for your cache to run at processor vcore.

[h2k]

What program are you using to measure your vcore and the vtt/agtl voltages?
From what I've seen, most programs don't even monitor the agtl/vtt voltage.

[ol' man]

Originally posted by h2k
What program are you using to measure your vcore and the vtt/agtl voltages?
From what I've seen, most programs don't even monitor the agtl/vtt voltage.

I am using sandra. Here is a pic from my bd100+ bios and sandra. They always jive;) They have on my last 5 mobo's anyway. Even the ASUS bios and sandra voltages jived.

[6502kid]

My Soyo TISU board seems to do the voltages OK.
Temp readings never change much. CPU starts at 40c
when it is first turned on. Have to run a lot of stress testing
to get it up to 42... :mad:

Here is a pic of the HW monitor while running with a 143fsb.
(This is with a 1.26 PIII-S chip.....) :burn: :beer:

[ol' man]

Heyt where do you get that software. That may be good for other people to use to test the TUSL-2 vtt. Yours seems right where it should be.

[ol' man]

Wow though your 12v is smokin'. Does it say that in the bios?

[ol' man]

Wow new developments. The powerleap adapter seems to run a 1.32v default vcore with the tualatins. I find that highly interesting that it is within' the Intel limits of the vtt voltage also but right on the edge. I bet the only way they got the adapter to work was by using the same volt rail on the vtt or cache as on the vcore. Yep you know it. That is why no one can hit higher than 108fsb with the adapter until they raise the vcore with the wire trick but then I bet you are going to find your vtt voltage is the same as your vcore too also.

You know I am sitting here think, think, thinking like I always do when I have too much caffeine about why in the world Powerleap would have their adapter run a default 1.32vcore when Intel says it should be 1.475v? Doesn't make sense!


Well it has for me man.

Here is a quote from a guy about this.

Theoretically, after done the modification of the voltage_generator hack, It is no need to do wire tricks on Cpu. Just change the dipswitch will got the Vcore upto 1.825V.
The document said, I guess, before the hack it only give T1.2G 1.32V at default setting and got 108Mhz. After the hack, it give T1.2G 1.47V at default setting and got 119Mhz. (But the smae T1.2G can go over 1.6G on a ST6, he did not sayed ??V)
The heat sink used for test is Alpha FEP66, as right hand photo showed.

The guy is from Taiwan so give his english a break.


Here is the link to that thread if you are in disbelief.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=274131

You notice that the vcore is within spec for the vtt also running at 1.32v cause I think the vtt spec is 1.36v or so at max. That is just abit odd don't ya think that is that way???????

Why on earth would Powerleap make the default vcore at 1.32v once again? I think it is cause that is the only way they could run the chip on the adapter was to have the AGTL bus voltage or vtt run at vcore voltages. They put them on the same rail as the vcore which must be what ASUS is doing with the TUSL-2. This also explains why they did not offer vcore adjustments right away too. Makes absolute sense now. They must have found that 1.675v was the max the chip could handle before the cache started to fail and is most likely why my celery got less stable by the day running 1.85v. I fried my cache up a bunch.

I also think it is the same reason the TUSL-2 is showing the vtt voltages at the same as the vcore. I also think it is the same reason the BIOS doesn't have the vtt/AUX setting in the bios too.

They would be caught!

Here is a link to a screen shot of the Intel data sheet for the celery.

http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=364304

It shows that the vtt should not go above 1.36v cause 109% of 1.25v is 1.36v. It actually says +/-9% of 1.25v which puts the max vtt voltage at 1.36v as I have said. If this is the spec then the powerleap adapter still keeps the vtt in spec but also keeps the chip running cause like I have said I have ran my celery down to 1.2v @ 1.2GHz.

Yep you are burning up that cache if you are running an ASUS TUSL-2 mobo and have the vcore above 1.7v possibly.

How often does ASUS release a MOBO without vcore adjusments???????????


They may have a few times but I don't think that is a common occurence.

Does anyone here have a CUSL-2 so they could check the vtt/AUX voltages?

I still think someone is making some knock off boards maybe.

[MaxMuster]

someone should take a voltmeter and clarify this for once and for all...

[ol' man]

Originally posted by MaxMuster
someone should take a voltmeter and clarify this for once and for all...

Yeah you ain't kidding.

[Godfodda]

ol' man, this is some good work. I don't pretend to understand it, but it's good nonetheless. :) Maybe you need to include a glossary for lamers like me who don't know vtt from VD. :D

[ol' man]

Originally posted by Godfodda
ol' man, this is some good work. I don't pretend to understand it, but it's good nonetheless. :) Maybe you need to include a glossary for lamers like me who don't know vtt from VD. :D

I am learning about it right now too. I think the vtt is what supplies the cache with juice or at least its bus. You know like the ram takes usually ~3.3v well I have assumed that the cache takes 1.25v on the .13u chip and the cache on .18u chips or higher are at 1.5v. I may be totally out in left field on this but I assume this since by the above pics the cache and vtt voltage pins are on the same side.

Also all I know is that when I first had my chip running 1600MHz it was highly stable at 1.8v on the TUSL-2 but then after a couple of days of prime stability checks it wasn't stable at that any more so then I upped the vcore to 1.825 and then it was stable again but only for another couple days. It was then that I got frustrated and tried it in my ST6 and it was alot more stable at pretty much the same bus speed.

From what I hear prime stresses the cache hardcore and that coupled with the high voltages burned it up a bit and screwed up my chip so it was harder to achieve ~1600MHz.

[Godfodda]

Originally posted by ol' man

Also all I know is that when I first had my chip running 1600MHz it was highly stable at 1.8v on the TUSL-2 but then after a couple of days of prime stability checks it wasn't stable at that any more so then I upped the vcore to 1.825 and then it was stable again but only for another couple days. It was then that I got frustrated and tried it in my ST6 and it was alot more stable at pretty much the same bus speed.

.

I think I might understand now. You're saying that the vtt should remain constant regardless of vcore, but the TUSL2 vtt is matched with the vcore which toasts the cache. Is that right, or backwards, or just totally wrong? :)

[ol' man]

I guess this is what a person over at [H] said about the older TUSL2


Hmmm, anybody want to pop the greenie of the Tusl2 and see what the chip is? Remember when Asus released their i815ep board and it was just the i815e with the VGA connector left off? Did they do it again, hacking the board so a Tualatin will "work" but not properly? Somebody take a look


Seems they had problems with the first TUSL2 and that must be why you cannot find them any more really. This is not say8ng much for ASUS. I did not know they did that with the first TUSL2. I remember people saying it only had the 815e chipset. I am pretty sure this is the 815ep but there must be some other problem. Maybe they used the old layout form the TUSL2 so since they had to hack that board to get it to work they may have done the same with this one.

[ol' man]

Originally posted by Godfodda


I think I might understand now. You're saying that the vtt should remain constant regardless of vcore, but the TUSL2 vtt is matched with the vcore which toasts the cache. Is that right, or backwards, or just totally wrong? :)


Yeah the vtt is supposed to be set at 1.25 with very strict perameters that I gave above.

[Ruiner]

Just for kix I submitted a question to this effect to Powerleap tech support. Perhaps they can confirm your observations. They seem right on the money.

[6502kid]

Originally posted by ol' man
Heyt where do you get that software. That may be good for other people to use to test the TUSL-2 vtt. Yours seems right where it should be.

That program came with the motherboard CD.
Not sure if it would work on a non-soyo mb or not.....

The 12v is the same in bios. All reading, temps and voltages
have been about the same on both of the TISU boards I
have messed with.

That 12.80 is still within the 10% so I should be OK dont you
think ? I am just using the 300w PSU that came with this
enlight case.

Could it be reading high due to the number of fans I got going ?
(1x120mm, 2x80mm, 1x60mm(on GF2), PCI slot fan, Drive bay
cooler fan)

[funnyperson1]

when my dad gets his TUSL-2 ill tell you how ASUS Probe sees it...

[h2k]

Ol'man, where in the asus tusl2-c bios does it list the vtt voltage? I don't recall seeing it anywhere in the hardware monitor.

[6502kid]

Originally posted by ol' man
Heyt where do you get that software. That may be good for other people to use to test the TUSL-2 vtt. Yours seems right where it should be.

I couldn't find any spot to download that utility on any
of Soyo's websites, but I went to the ITE site and it
looks like they have it there.

Search for the IT8712 section in the downloads, click on the
software link and look for the SmartGuardian files.

It looks like it is the same version as what I got. (2.5)
I didnt bother to download it since I am on dialup.
Let me know if you find it ok.

It is good for info, but I wouldnt trust it to run all the time.
Seems to bog down the cpu a lot, and has some rather
dubious "options" such as turning off your CPU fan if the
temps drop too much, or you play around with some of the
sliders in the config box.

Here's the link, I hope....

http://www.ite.com.tw/productInfo/Download.html

[ol' man]

Originally posted by Ruiner
Just for kix I submitted a question to this effect to Powerleap tech support. Perhaps they can confirm your observations. They seem right on the money.

I was wondering what you mean by right on the money? Maybe you could elaborate on this a bit.

I am thinking they are not going to tell you how they made the adapter.

It will be nice to get a straight answer from them though.

I was thinking of calling ASUS too but I may have a some "suits" show up and take me out:D Those wimps at powerleap I am not scared of;)

Now to know what kind of question you asked. If you asked a question you may think has something to do with this and it doesn't then you may end up giving false info out. What was your question to them specifically. Did you save your email?

[Ruiner]

Yeah, no prob:
My question:
"It has been observed that the Vcore for this card runs below default (1.32
instead of 1.475 for the Celeron-T).
There is speculation that you have run the voltage for vcore and Vtt (possibly
on the same rail).
Is this true?"

(and I linked to this thread)

and their first reply so far:
"Hi. Thanks for your question. I don't know the answer to it myself, but will
forward this to our engineering guys for comment and get back to you ASAP."


So far this would follow. The product is designed to allow joe-sixpack to upgrade his Dell P2 (or whatever) to something more current...no muss, no fuss. It would be awesome if we could use it to pump some real guts into 'ancient' slot-1 boards.

Who knows....maybe our input will result in a more OC friendly card.

[ol' man]

Dude that is some sweet software:D

Here is the link for all you TUSL-2 owners that don't trust Sandra.

http://www.ite.com.tw/pc/SGuardian_it8712_8900135-250.zip

[ol' man]

Originally posted by Ruiner
Yeah, no prob:
My question:
"It has been observed that the Vcore for this card runs below default (1.32
instead of 1.475 for the Celeron-T).
There is speculation that you have run the voltage for vcore and Vtt (possibly
on the same rail).
Is this true?"

(and I linked to this thread)

and their first reply so far:
"Hi. Thanks for your question. I don't know the answer to it myself, but will
forward this to our engineering guys for comment and get back to you ASAP."


So far this would follow. The product is designed to allow joe-sixpack to upgrade his Dell P2 (or whatever) to something more current...no muss, no fuss. It would be awesome if we could use it to pump some real guts into 'ancient' slot-1 boards.

Who knows....maybe our input will result in a more OC friendly card.

Thanks man that was a highly appropriate question.:)

[MaxMuster]

Originally posted by ol' man
Dude that is some sweet software:D

Here is the link for all you TUSL-2 owners that don't trust Sandra.

http://www.ite.com.tw/pc/SGuardian_it8712_8900135-250.zip

strange values on my tusl2-c

[MaxMuster]

Originally posted by ol' man


I was thinking of calling ASUS too but I may have a some "suits" show up and take me out:D Those wimps at powerleap I am not scared of;)



write 'em an e-mail... :)

or you could write a mail to tom's hardware (brr ;)), they seem pretty keen on such issues (tom@tomshardware.com)

[ol' man]

Originally posted by MaxMuster


strange values on my tusl2-c

Well I guess that ain't working now is it:eek:

I also wanted to say that that is a win2k version. If you are running win98 it you may need that one. You can get it for 95~2K but not XP. I am sure the 2K version woudl work with that though.

[h2k]

I just tried that ITE Program at home in XP and I got those same strange readings. Maybe it's a difference between the TUSL2 and the TUSL2-C

[MaxMuster]

tried the win2k version on win2k... seems this tools is for SOYO mainboards only

[6502kid]

I thought it might be....:(

I guess you will just have to go out and
get one of the Soyo boards !:D

[ol' man]

Originally posted by MaxMuster
tried the win2k version on win2k... seems this tools is for SOYO mainboards only

No it works on my IWILL. I haven't tried on my ST6 yet.

[Pity410]

hoping that this thread will continue as i am in the process of building a new computer with the tusl2-c and a PIII 1.13 tualatin. Waiting for the last few components.

Pity410

[MaxMuster]

well... there's nothing left to be said until somebody grabs a voltmeter, checks the vtt voltage and posts the results...

(and i really hope somebody will do this...)

[funnyperson1]

my opinino is that ASUS has not allowed for monitoring of VTT in the bios resulting in incorrect readings...oterwise, wouldnt there be lots of instability?

[ol' man]

Originally posted by funnyperson1
my opinino is that ASUS has not allowed for monitoring of VTT in the bios resulting in incorrect readings...oterwise, wouldnt there be lots of instability?


I doubt it if you kept the vcore under a certain amount. It seems that number for me was ~1.85v on the tusl2 which made it get less stable every day. Until someone can do a reading, this topic has been beaten to death. I am not sure but ASUS is not the god of MOBO makers. They screw up and many people have commented on it several times. My personal opinion is that they are a volume OEM outfit not caring as much about quality control. Hasn't your dad got one of these yet and you have a ASUS, why don't you tell us if it has a vtt or AUX gauge in the bios, sandra or ASUS probe. I never said it was for sure but there are some fishy things going on with the tualatin chip mainly the powerleap adapter running its vcore way under default. Come on give us a measurment so we can put this under the table.

[funnyperson1]

there is no VTT monitoring in the bios, and if it isnt in te bios, i have a feeling it isnt measured by the board at all...

[ol' man]

Originally posted by funnyperson1
there is no VTT monitoring in the bios, and if it isnt in te bios, i have a feeling it isnt measured by the board at all...

This is on your older ASUS board???????

That is the one I am talking about.

And yeah if you have you newer one then check that with a volometer if you can. It is not hard to do all you have to do is find the right pins on the back of the board and mark them with a marker so you are absolutely sure which ones they are and with a digital volometer that can get down to the hundreths check it. Not hard and I wish I would have done this before I returned my board.

[funnyperson1]

on my P3V4X Sandra says VAUX is at 2.5...now i know thats wrong...

[ol' man]

Originally posted by funnyperson1
on my P3V4X Sandra says VAUX is at 2.5...now i know thats wrong...


In your BIOS??????????????

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by ol' man



In your BIOS??????????????

awww cmon man, dont make me reboot:burn: ...i will do it after a while....

[ol' man]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


awww cmon man, dont make me reboot:burn: ...i will do it after a while....


DOHHHHHHHH!

[h2k]

I checked the bios on my tusl2-c, and it has not listing for AGTL, VTT, or AUX Voltage. It only has Vcore, +3.3V, +5V, and +12v. The bios version is 1010.004 beta. If anyone has the bios which lists the AGTL, VTT, or AUX Voltage, please post the version.

[ol' man]

Originally posted by h2k
I checked the bios on my tusl2-c, and it has not listing for AGTL, VTT, or AUX Voltage. It only has Vcore, +3.3V, +5V, and +12v. The bios version is 1010.004 beta. If anyone has the bios which lists the AGTL, VTT, or AUX Voltage, please post the version.

Youwill have to check it with a voltometer. ASUS seems to think you shouldn't worry about this voltage anymore after many years of it being in bioses. WEIRD!

[Pity410]

which pins need to be checked, when I get mine up and running i will check it

Pity410

[ol' man]

Originally posted by Pity410
which pins need to be checked, when I get mine up and running i will check it

Pity410

When I get back i will show you.

[funnyperson1]

update: my P3V4X has no VAUX in the Bios, just VCORE and other normal Voltages....my conclusion: ASUS never really gave a S*** about monitoring VTT or VAUX, and therefore all programs report incorrectly...

[ol' man]

Originally posted by funnyperson1
update: my P3V4X has no VAUX in the Bios, just VCORE and other normal Voltages....my conclusion: ASUS never really gave a S*** about monitoring VTT or VAUX, and therefore all programs report incorrectly...


Okay then so everything may be fine then:)