View Full Version : Do 90's really hurt flow that bad?? **pic
(Clanger)(DOA)
12-05-06, 07:17 PM
As the title states....
My case is narrow this is what i did...
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/novitus/IMG_0275.jpg
hainer36
12-05-06, 07:20 PM
did the same thing with my friends setup
doesnt seem to effect anything (has a D4 pump)
Captain Slug
12-05-06, 07:28 PM
If you have no alternatives, then you have no alternatives. It's ideal to not have them in your loop, but their effect on performance is very difficult to actually measure. Just make sure you pick the least restrictive elbows you can.
SiGfever
12-05-06, 07:31 PM
You want the flow to be as smooth as possible. A 90d fitting is equivalent to additional footage of tubing on the loop in restriction.
A female to male adapter to 90d is a turbulence nightmare. People talk about how bad DD "Perfect Fit" fittings are because of the flat lip where the tubing meets the barb so you can imagine what is going on inside your fittings.
(Clanger)(DOA)
12-05-06, 08:20 PM
yeah your right Sigfever, i need a redesign.But this will have to hold me over till i get a new case.
QuietIce
12-05-06, 09:37 PM
An interesting little program I discovered that might help answer your question ...
http://www.pressure-drop.com/
situman
12-05-06, 10:05 PM
or just add another pump. much easier than to buy a new case and redo your tubings, unless u like to take everything apart.
QuietIce
12-05-06, 10:16 PM
yeah your right Sigfever, i need a redesign.But this will have to hold me over till i get a new case. If you're running a decent pump I wouldn't worry about it. A D5/MCP655 or equivalent will plow right through all that ...
I would see if you can go to 45's, those will basically reduce pressure drop by a fair amount, in addition to making not much more of a difference on tubing location.
7
(Clanger)(DOA)
12-05-06, 11:23 PM
I got a D4,
I am trying to figure out what you have those male/female elbows screwed into.
Elbows like that are quite restrictive. Here is what I would do. I would use a short piece of tubing on each barb of the WW going to a 1/2" copper long sweep elbow (mcmaster.com #5520K184) to your tubing. Long sweep elbows offer very little restriction and yet would get the job done. I have used them when needed and saw no difference between them and using tubing. I solder a short piece of copper tubing into the female end to make it easier to get the tubing onto that end.
I have one in my rig now.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/voigts/CustomWoodCaseII/completed/GPUelbow.jpg
http://www.pressure-drop.com/Excellent find!
As the title states....
My case is narrow this is what i did...
You could use 3/4 inch ells.
Or try making some of these:
See post #5 in http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=4601320#post4601320
Take a 2' piece of 1/2" or 3/4" CPVC (the thinwall,beige stuff), fill it with dry sand, press caps onto the ends, and heat it over a stove. Bend it around something. You can make any radius you want.
(Clanger)(DOA)
12-06-06, 04:24 PM
I am trying to figure out what you have those male/female elbows screwed into.
Elbows like that are quite restrictive. Here is what I would do. I would use a short piece of tubing on each barb of the WW going to a 1/2" copper long sweep elbow (mcmaster.com #5520K184) to your tubing. Long sweep elbows offer very little restriction and yet would get the job done. I have used them when needed and saw no difference between them and using tubing. I solder a short piece of copper tubing into the female end to make it easier to get the tubing onto that end.
I have one in my rig now.
those sweeping elbows are what i originally had in mind... I walked around lowes for 2 hours looking for anything that resembaled them... no luck. Since the comments in this thread i have taken the 90's out and ordered more tubing, ( all the tubing i had left was braided PVC :D ) THose long sweep elbows will work perfect...
This is what im working with now till i get the more managable tubing,
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/novitus/IMG_0277.jpg
greenmaji
12-06-06, 04:41 PM
It looks like the fiber reinforced (home depot or lowes) tubing is your problem to me. thiner walled tubing would be more flexable.
I think I would have put the res in the top bays and turned the rad 90degrees to make the barbs and tank face downward.
And are you running a top rad as well?
(Clanger)(DOA)
12-06-06, 04:52 PM
well i was using tygon for the tight areas before.
QuietIce
12-06-06, 05:03 PM
Tygon is great stuf - not only bends easy but it's kinda' sticky, too. I know a lot of guys like the 7/16" Tygon but I've grown fond of 1/2" ID - 5/8" OD with Smartcoils for the tough spots. You can make a pretty sharp bend w/thin wall and Smartcoils.
Excellent find! I hunted up Cathar's original thread when he was discussing 1/2" v 7/16" and tracked down his link to what he used for some of his calculations. The site isn't quite the same address (the one he linked is gone) but I bet it's the same program ...
I got my long sweep elbows from mcmaster at the link I posted. You probably won't find them locally as they are not the usual plumbing fittings.
That braided tubing is useless in our systems. I have been using Masterkleer of late and although its not as flexible as Tygon, it sure it a lot cheaper.
I also would have placed the res at the top of the case as air naturally rises.
(Clanger)(DOA)
12-06-06, 11:16 PM
I also would have placed the res at the top of the case as air naturally rises.
cant place the res there, it would block the 1/2 the BIXII thats above it....
Arca_ex
12-06-06, 11:21 PM
I win.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j93/Arca_ex/100_1661.jpg
Another option I've used:
Use some 1/2" soft copper tubing (the bendable stuff).
Cut a 1 foot piece, and bend it to 90 degrees using my bending springs (bought a set at Menards for $10).
Cut down the tubing to the correct length.
Solder on a brass ferule on each end to act as a hose barb (also called compression rings).
Then I can flare out the end of the tubing from using the pipe cutter, and the ID is pretty darned close to the original tubing size.
Works beautifully, and the "barbs" are even good enough to go without clamps (though I use spring clamps anyway).
Just another option.
QuietIce
12-07-06, 06:02 AM
I've thought about getting some of those bending springs but wasn't sure how tight a radius you could get with them. One foot of arc at 90° is ~7.5" radius - you must have tangent sections on the ends. Approx. how long are those ...?
The springs are about a foot long, but you're not restricted to the 7.5 radius by any means...they're springs.
You can also use them to bend around a pulley.
I'd say at 1/2" you can get a 2-3" radius, maybe tighter.
You can also fill the tube with sand/salt/sugar and tape the ends shut. Bending by hand (even without springs) can get your pretty tight radius that way without collapsing.
With the sand or salt, you can apply heat with a propane torch and get the radius even tighter (wear welding gloves).
With that method, I've made copper coils that fit inside a piece of 4" PVC...making my cooling coil for distilling water (no really, it was water!) before I bought the springs.
BTW, I made distilled water to compare with the store-bought stuff using a DMM, battery and fan to test for conduction, just to see if it really was steam distilled like the label said. ;)
greenmaji
12-07-06, 01:33 PM
The actual pipe bending hand tool is about the same price as the bending springs and IMHO is alot easier to use, for me anyway.
thin walled Masterkleer would likely make these sweeps for you, and its what 30cents a foot, sounds like alot of frustration when replacing the tubing would likely do the job.
those sweeping elbows are what i originally had in mind... I walked around lowes for 2 hours looking for anything that resembaled them... no luck. Since the comments in this thread i have taken the 90's out and ordered more tubing, ( all the tubing i had left was braided PVC :D ) THose long sweep elbows will work perfect...
This is what im working with now till i get the more managable tubing, 3/4" heated and bent PVC.
Immortal_Hero
12-08-06, 10:56 AM
What are these?
Bleeders I would assume!
aaronjb
12-08-06, 11:01 AM
What are these?
Oh noes. Now we'll hear the story of the compression fittings again. :)
Captain Slug
12-08-06, 11:07 AM
Yeah, those are air release valves.
Arca_ex
12-08-06, 04:04 PM
Oh noes. Now we'll hear the story of the compression fittings again. :)
Lol, instead of telling the story in this thread, it can be found here (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=4518529) in my project log.
Those are quick connect valves that I use to fill and bleed the system, they also can withstand 6000PSI of pressure, but that's just a fun fact :)
QuietIce
12-09-06, 01:30 AM
The springs are about a foot long, but you're not restricted to the 7.5 radius by any means...they're springs.
You can also use them to bend around a pulley.
I'd say at 1/2" you can get a 2-3" radius, maybe tighter.
You can also fill the tube with sand/salt/sugar and tape the ends shut. Bending by hand (even without springs) can get your pretty tight radius that way without collapsing.
With the sand or salt, you can apply heat with a propane torch and get the radius even tighter (wear welding gloves).
With that method, I've made copper coils that fit inside a piece of 4" PVC...making my cooling coil for distilling water (no really, it was water!) before I bought the springs.
BTW, I made distilled water to compare with the store-bought stuff using a DMM, battery and fan to test for conduction, just to see if it really was steam distilled like the label said. ;) Good to know the springs will turn so tight - I couldn't find anything that really said how close they could go.
So how did your distilled "H2O" ;) test turn out? I recently tested some of mine with a simple ohms test - I figured at 1+^6 ohms it was virtually neutral. And the mix I took out of a 2 month old loop was almost the same - kept flipping from 1+^6 to 700K, so there is some contamination (all copper) but not much. At 12v we're looking at, what, 0.017 mA at best and less than that @ 5v. Can that much power really fry anything ...?
Sleepy_Steve
12-09-06, 02:30 AM
Not that I'm aware of... Not enough current.
Well, the test did prove that the grocery store's steam distilled was in fact the same as mine, but for conduction you have to look at it a little differently than just plunging the probes into it.
Since it acts like a variable resistor, you need to consider the distance between the probe tips also.
At 1mm (not nearly an uncommon distance between motherboard points of contact) both conducted 85%, which will fry components.
Keep in mind that I didn't just test resistance, I was testing with a load running through the gap, just like the real world. The load's draw is higher than what a meter usually puts out to take a measurement, and the current you put into the measurement is important. The fan was an 80mm at ~.5A (if memory serves) using a fresh 9 volt battery. The 85% is based on voltage drop, not amperage, and the fan did run.
Oh, and with the springs it is still possible to collapse the tubing with a bend that's too tight. You need to work with some spare pieces first to discover it's limits with your brand/thickness/alloy of tubing. Those three things being variable, it's hard for me to just say that your tubing would do such and such a radius.
I also aneal my tubing by sitting it on the stove (electric) for 10 minutes followed by a plunge in cold tap water. It helps to make the tubing bendable as can be.
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