Time warp back to the P4 northwood days

[Damenshon]

Yea, i know, old computer. second generation p4 all the way! represent.

so i had a 2.8b p4 northwood since all the way back to who knows when. i oced it to 3.2. i suppose it was fairly fast, i have been deprived so i dont know what fast is anymore. neways i just got a 2.4c northwood and stuck it in my motherboard. now i assume that a 2.4c is slower than a 3.2b. so i decided to oc it. unfortunately my ram crapped out on me at 2.58ghz. :( . its a kingston pc2700 running at 433 mhz. pretty good seeing as its made for 333 mhz. timings are 3, 3, 3, 8 with 2.9 volts. so my question is am i better off running the 2.4 at 2.6 with HT or running the 2.8 at 3.2 w/o HT. Im figuring that new ram is probably not worth it...1gb for 80ish USD? ugh. but hypothetically, would better ram make my oc better? and whats this cap at 230 fsb about? (my motherboard is asus p4pe. it had to be flashed to enable it to use the 800mhz fsb processors. is it not made to oc more than 230?) i would like to be able to reach 3.2 ghz....

and btw temps are fine. around 100 F. vcore is default.

[ChinStrap]

the 2.8 @ 3.2 will be fast faster for single apps.

the 2.6 with HT will be faster multitasking.

i guess the question is... do you multitask?

[Maviryk]

Should loosen the ram to 3-4-4-8 to get a few more Mhz out of it. You could also vdimm and vdroop mod the mobo for $5 to get more OC ability.

[batboy]

You could run the RAM at a lower ratio to get more out of it. But, if your goal is 3.2 gig and the mobo tops out at 230 FSB, I suggest you do the math. It takes 266 FSB for a 2.4C to reach 3.2 gig

[Maviryk]

IIRC it's counter productive on P4 era Intels to run anything other than 1:1 as there are no benefits with running the CPU faster than the ram.

[Nebulous]

IIRC it's counter productive on P4 era Intels to run anything other than 1:1 as there are no benefits with running the CPU faster than the ram.


I cuncur :thup:

[hUMANbEATbOX]

IIRC it's counter productive on P4 era Intels to run anything other than 1:1 as there are no benefits with running the CPU faster than the ram.
i disagree...

i think you meant "there is no benefit running the FSB faster then the ram". this is wrong, the benefit is you get a much faster cpu.

there is no downside to running a divider. there is almost no performance hit at all. if your ram can do 200mhz, you can run the 3:2 ratio on the memory, with a fsb of 300, to get 3.6ghz. BUT the OP already said he can't go over 230fsb...so its a moot point.

[Maviryk]

There's no point in having the CPU to run faster than the ram. It will end up having to wait a few cycles for the ram to feed it, thus defeating the purpose.

P4 era CPUs are not Athlons. For P4s, RAM bandwidth is king.

While you are correct that there is no performance increase. Conversely, there is no performance increase, either. What good is a faster CPU when it has to wait for the RAM to catch up?

This is why AMD owners want tight ram at stock timings, while P4 owners could care less about how loose the timings are as long as it had plenty of bandwidth.

[hUMANbEATbOX]

dude, i've got a 2.4c rig right here beside me. are you telling me there is no benefit to running 300fsb, and my ram at 200mhz? you say the cpu i just gonna be sitting around, waiting for the ram, so this should be just as fast as running 200fsb, and 200mhz on the ram? i can tell you from vast experience that you are wrong...

[Damenshon]

Should loosen the ram to 3-4-4-8 to get a few more Mhz out of it. You could also vdimm and vdroop mod the mobo for $5 to get more OC ability.

the slowest timings my motherboard will allow is 3, 3, 3, 8. running 2.9v into the ram. whats vdroop?
if i were to hypothetically insert pc3200 will the 230mhz fsb cap dissapear?

and what about for games. is ht better?

[batboy]

Try using a 5:4 or 3:2 memory ratio and see what happens.

I have to agree with HBB, using a lower memory ratio is not a problem, as long as you can run higher FSB and lower timings to compensate. For example 220 FSB using 1:1 and 3-4-4-10 is slower than 250 FSB using 5:4 and 2-3-3-8. I have lots of old data comparing different RAM ratios and FSB with my old 2.4C that supports this fact.

[Damenshon]

there wouldnt happen to be a mod to unlock the multiplier would there?

[batboy]

Nope.

[Damenshon]

ok so if i cant change the ratio of ram to fsb, how do i make it able to. That is, before i stuck in the new cpu i could change the ratio but now it wont let me. it just says auto...

edit; if i change the fsb to below 200 it will let me change the ratio...but once it reaches 200 it wont.....

edit: ugh. so apparently the ram is crappier than i thought. its stable only at 410 Mhz. Phooey. that means i can only run at 2.46 which is only 60mhz faster. ouch. very sad. do you think it would be worth getting/finding pc3200 so i can oc to 2.78? and how does a 2.46 HT compare to a 3.2 no HT?

[hUMANbEATbOX]

have you updated your bios?

[batboy]

Where it says "auto", I think you need to change that to manual. But, even on auto it should still work because it will automatically adjust the memory ratio to no more than it's rated for. I would go back to the faster processor if you don't want to spend any money. Get new or used RAM only if you get a super deal. Don't spend much on this old system. Actually, with the 2.4C, you'll really need faster RAM than PC3200 if you are going to the trouble of upgrading.

[Damenshon]

bios is 1007, the most updated one...asus stopped updating after awhile cause the mb is outdated.

im caught in a pickle b/c i want a ht processor but i also dont wanna be stupid and downgrade in order to do so. (the 2.8 went into a laptop running at 2.1 b/c of some stupid fsb cap.)

[Damenshon]

Where it says "auto", I think you need to change that to manual. But, even on auto it should still work because it will automatically adjust the memory ratio to no more than it's rated for. I would go back to the faster processor if you don't want to spend any money. Get new or used RAM only if you get a super deal. Don't spend much on this old system. Actually, with the 2.4C, you'll really need faster RAM than PC3200 if you are going to the trouble of upgrading.

it doesnt like it. the only option is auto...which is stupid but w/e.

im really liking this temperature thing. it can passive cool at 100F. alot better than my 2.8 which needed active cooling and idled at 110.