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Block Design - Side/angled barbs?

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silvrhand

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Joined
Oct 5, 2004
How come almost every block has a 90 degree barb at the top and then another 90 degree exit, that is perpendicular to the copper base. Wouldn't it be more effecient to have an pipeline type to decrease resistance and increase flow?

Just an idea, seems like there it would be higher flow and the design of turbulence for the water block and the abililty to give more surface area to cool would be beneficial.

I have attached my ms paint diagram version 0!
 

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I couldn't say for sure, only two things I could think to say would be

#1. that it's done so that there is more turbulence in the water hitting the water block. So the water is hitting the block with more force and pulling a little extra heat out of it.

#2. simply for easier cable routing and clearance issues.


Those are my guesses :)
 
Routing tubing in that fashion wouldn’t be any easier than the current method, and wouldn’t provide any real benefit. That’s probably why it isn’t done.

Turbulence is a tricky thing. There’s not a lot of it in PC water-cooling. Even the Storm waterblock, arguably the most turbulent design, has less turbulence than water running through 1/2" tubing. So maximizing turbulence is not as important in water-cooling as most people think.

What IS important is to get as many water molecules in contact with hot copper as is possible. This is actually very difficult. In a water-cooled waterblock, the area that gets hot is fairly small. Also, if you don’t have a defined entry-exit path then the water tends to get in its own way and not flow well. The reason why the Storm works well is because water has a well-defined path into and out of each cup, which results in more water molecules coming in contact with hot copper.

A block that performs as well as the Storm...the Hydrocool Hydro-Stream HS5...works by squeezing water through very narrow tubes, thereby maximizing the number of water molecules that touch the hot parts of the block. The design has a very high pressure drop, however.

In designs such as yours what ends up happening is that a large amount of water will flow over the top of the hot areas and not actually come in contact with the hot copper. If you reduce the channel size to increase contact then you have pressure issues, like the Hydro-Stream.

So the path to better cooling isn’t blocked by 90-degree bends or lack of turbulence, but by the difficulty of creating low-restriction designs that maximize water contact with the hot parts of the block. Currently, the Storm represents the best of that design.
 
I would assume with a side entry that you could have a lot of fins like a current heatsink that would allow a lot more surface area to be hit by the water molecules, I am aware that there would be obvious routing problems but it was an idea none the less.

Graystar said:
Routing tubing in that fashion wouldn’t be any easier than the current method, and wouldn’t provide any real benefit. That’s probably why it isn’t done.

Turbulence is a tricky thing. There’s not a lot of it in PC water-cooling. Even the Storm waterblock, arguably the most turbulent design, has less turbulence than water running through 1/2" tubing. So maximizing turbulence is not as important in water-cooling as most people think.

What IS important is to get as many water molecules in contact with hot copper as is possible. This is actually very difficult. In a water-cooled waterblock, the area that gets hot is fairly small. Also, if you don’t have a defined entry-exit path then the water tends to get in its own way and not flow well. The reason why the Storm works well is because water has a well-defined path into and out of each cup, which results in more water molecules coming in contact with hot copper.

A block that performs as well as the Storm...the Hydrocool Hydro-Stream HS5...works by squeezing water through very narrow tubes, thereby maximizing the number of water molecules that touch the hot parts of the block. The design has a very high pressure drop, however.

In designs such as yours what ends up happening is that a large amount of water will flow over the top of the hot areas and not actually come in contact with the hot copper. If you reduce the channel size to increase contact then you have pressure issues, like the Hydro-Stream.

So the path to better cooling isn’t blocked by 90-degree bends or lack of turbulence, but by the difficulty of creating low-restriction designs that maximize water contact with the hot parts of the block. Currently, the Storm represents the best of that design.
 
silvrhand said:
I would assume with a side entry that you could have a lot of fins like a current heatsink that would allow a lot more surface area to be hit by the water molecules, I am aware that there would be obvious routing problems but it was an idea none the less.
Fins don't work that well, actually. That's why Swiftech uses pins in their designs.

Water works well...really well. With thin fins, the fins don't actually get a chance to heat up, so they're ineffective...you might as well have a flat plate. With thick fins, there isn't enough room for lots of water, and you get pressure issues. Also, the further heat has to travel up a fin, the less effective your cooling can ultimately be. There's a 0.5C penalty in cooling ability for every millimeter of copper the heat has to travel through (if I recollect correctly,) which is just one reason why regular air heatsinks (not heat pipes) are such poor performers compared to water.

The Swiftech Apogee uses very small, low pins to maximize contact area (to me, they’re smaller in person than I had thought from the pictures available on the net.) Still, because of the height, and other design issue, the Apogee doesn’t work as well as the Storm (according to SystemCooling.com.) Personally, I think it’s because the Storm is much better at getting a large amount of water to the thinnest part of the base, whereas the Apogee has a thick base and depends on heat traveling up pins.

So, like anything else, it’s always more complicated than one would think, and there’s no easy answer to how waterblocks can be improved.
 
How much better are the swiftech than the TDX/RBX from Danger Den? I use them cause I can drop down locally to Directron.com and pick it up and don't have to wait forever :)

I'm curious on how much performance I'm missing out on now.
 
I tried designing my blocks with side mounted barbs, but there's just not enough component clearance around the CPU socket for the tubes to fit. And using ½" barbs sideways mounted would mean the block would have to be extremely thick. So we srapped that idea and went top mounted. The blocks will be thinner, and cost much less to produce. That and they are actually useable on an actual motherboard with actual components on, which is a plus ;)
 
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