Newb needs advice

[Sjaak]

I've been out of the hardware cycle for a year and a half, still running a dothan. I recently got an offer for 2x 1GB D9 DDR-2 memory at a very good price so it started itching again - if i get the money together i'd like to upgrade my system in the next month. I would need a new CPU, RAM, MOBO & VGA, at a reasonable price. I've been looking at the C2D CPU's and pricing, and would like to get the E6600 with 4MB cache but its almost 50% more expensive then the E6300 which looks like a nice OC'ing candidate as well.

I plan to do a medium OC - i will be running high-end aircooling in a well-ventilated case, but i'm unsure what to expect from either of these CPU's. Another question is, if i get the E6300 and clock it way past E6600 stock speed, will i notice the difference in cache?

I am also pretty clueless on motherboards. I'm now running a P4C800 which is nearly 4 years old, and for a new one i wouldn't need too many fancy gadgets, just the standard stuff and room for a decent overclock. Would Asus still be a good choice, or has anything changed in favour of any of the other manufacturers. The videocard is another blind spot - are there already any decent DX10 cards out worth buying now?

In short - i'm fairly limited on cash, would like a decent overclock but have very limited knowledge of the current hardware situation - enlighten me!

[[SC]Ceasar]

Hey, nog een dutchie.
You said you are going for a medium oc, this depends on what you consider to be a medium oc. Lets say we are on the same line, my advice would be to get a e6400, some may say you can better take the e6300, because on the e6400 you will lower that multiplier anyway to achieve a higher clock/oc. IMO the e6400 is a great oc'er and i prefer that over the e6300.
You will notice the difference in cache, the 4mb cache runs hotter :p

For the motherboard, I would go with the Asus P5B Deluxe, cheap and good oc mobo. As fior the memory, im pretty stupid on that part too.. :D

There are DX10 cards out now, like the 8800GTX but imo its not worth buying since ATI's R600 will be out sometime soon. Since you are on a budget the 8800GTX isnt really a option, 600+ euro's thats alot!!, try to find a 7900GTO. Its bassicly a GTX for half the price.

Im sure other people can and will give better advice, but he, i did my best.
:D

[greenmaji]

Sjaak=Newb :eek: no way! :sn:

At this point Im willing to advise purchasing a Xeon 3XXX series CPU, the way they are performing @ XS is hard to ignore, and because of that I'll have to make a strong recomendation twoard a least a 8 muiltiplier CPU, the Xeon 3050 (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9TY) being the lowest of them.

Will you "feel" the difference between 2Mb and 4Mb cache? Thats subjective, some say they can feel it after swiching up some say they can't.

The Asus P5B-Deluxe is the best 965P motherboard for FSB overclocking but lets be honest here its not even close to being the cheapest ;) If it doesn't fit in your budget let us know so I can think up anther recomendation.

If you can find a 7900GTO over there its a good buy but its been sold out in the states for a GOOD long time. Depending on prices, if you want a stopgap card whatever 7900 series or 19XX sieres is cheapest would likely do you fine. [SC] is right no competition on the DX10 line is affecting prices in a bad way, as expected.

Sjaak.. could you give the make model (and rev. if corsair) of the ram in question. (some of them clock like D9 at low clocks and can be very deciving, top FSB IS affected :( )

[Sjaak]

I was contacted by someone who also comes on XS forums, his nickname there is alexio (http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=129333) . He said he was going to do a mass-buyin on it and he could get me a 2x1GB set for a nice price. He would give me more details on exact spec and pricing later, so ill just have to wait.

[batboy]

Intel is due to release the new E4300/E4400 at the end of this month or beginning of next. There should be a price drop for the other Core 2 Duos too. I too recommend the E6400 if you are on a budget or E4300 if you are on a really tight budget. The extra cache of the E6600 is good for a few percentage performance increase in some benchmarks or programs that take advantage of it. Not all apps show much of a gain though.

[greenmaji]

I was contacted by someone who also comes on XS forums, his nickname there is xxxx . He said he was going to do a mass-buyin on it and he could get me a 2x1GB set for a nice price. He would give me more details on exact spec and pricing later, so ill just have to wait.

Im not a member so the link doesn't work.. but I don't care to know about the details to be honest ;)

If you can get the info about the ram in question though I would look into the Micron vs non-Micron for ya :beer:

[Sjaak]

What would be the ideal sticks to look for?

[hUMANbEATbOX]

Intel is due to release the new E4300/E4400 at the end of this month or beginning of next.

the e4400 is due in q2.

to sjaak..you know the drill...look around at everyone's sigs....you will start to see a pattern develop. ;)

if you want a e6300, its a p5b-dlx, 2x1gb D9's, a nice air cooler and a solid psu. the oc in my sig was relatively simple. ;)

if you want a e6600, there are a few more choices now with 975 mobo's. ram you don't need the d9's..(unless you just want em to play with ;))...really any ddr2-800 at cas 4 will do.

[Sjaak]

Alright alright, who knew it would be as simple as it was before :P Let me just fetch some cash...

[hUMANbEATbOX]

have you decided what route you are going to take cpu wise? you can't go wrong IMO, they would all be fun to clock.

[Gautam]

Nice to see you back dude. :)

[Sjaak]

have you decided what route you are going to take cpu wise? you can't go wrong IMO, they would all be fun to clock.

Well, i'll have to look into the Xeon option regarding price and clockability - how much better do they fare then their regular counterparts, and for how much more?


Nice to see you back dude. :)

Some things never change :)


*edit*

Did a quick price comparison.

Regular C2D:

Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 (S775, 2x1.86GHz, 2MB, 800MHz FSB, Box... € 157,19
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (S775, 2x1.86GHz, 2MB, 1066MHz FSB, Bo... € 165,-
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (S775, 2x2.13GHz, 2MB, 1066MHz FSB, Bo... € 199,90
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (S775, 2x2.4GHz, 4MB, 1066MHz FSB, Box... € 284,-
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 (S775, 2x2.67GHz, 4MB, 1066MHz FSB, Bo... € 472,12

Xeon flavours:

Intel Xeon 3040 (S775, 2x1.86GHz, 2MB, 1066MHz FSB, Boxed) € 176,47
Intel Xeon 3050 (S775, 2x2.13GHz, 2MB, 1066MHz FSB, Boxed) € 210,27
Intel Xeon 3060 (S775, 2x2.40GHz, 4MB, 1066MHz FSB, Boxed) € 295,18
Intel Xeon 3070 (S775, 2x2.67GHz, 4MB, 1066MHz FSB, Boxed) € 486,55


Seems the prices do not differ very much, around 10-15 more for the xeons.

[Super Nade]

I am saying that the Xeons have been overhyped. There are several threads on other forums with not-so astronomical results. :)

What PSU do you plan on using? You may have to get a quality MB after all. Not to sound flippant, but there is no point buying a $1000 saddle for a $10 horse. If you are looking for a mature zero hassle board, pick up a 975X based board. I loved my ASUS P5W-DH, great board which scaled to 430 FSB 24/7. The newer ones go a bit higher with the extra MCH/chipset voltages available.

[Sjaak]

It's green :eek:



I currently have a Levicom 450W w/ 16A 12v and 30A 3.3v lines....

[hUMANbEATbOX]

I currently have a Levicom 450W w/ 16A 12v and 30A 3.3v lines....

well...that's gonna have to go.. :)

[Super Nade]

Tim,

Can you get the UL number from the lable on the PSU? For all we know it could be a good OEM. Welcome back man! :)

#PS
Still waiting for my Bergkamp Jersey. :)

[Sjaak]

Cant find and numbers on it besides the part number and serial number...

[greenmaji]

If you can find the UL (before Nate gets back ;) ).. you can look it up over here
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/index.htm
Just enter it in the "UL File Number" feild and hit search :)

then you could just report the OEM :)

[[SC]Ceasar]

@ Sjaak: Where do you get that e6400 that cheap?

[Super Nade]

If that does not work and only if you are willing to void the warranty, open up the unit and post a few pics. The innards will give us a clue. ;)

[Sjaak]

If that does not work and only if you are willing to void the warranty, open up the unit and post a few pics. The innards will give us a clue. ;)

I already did that long ago by changing out the two fans, mounting all the innards with rubber feet etc :)

These prices come directly from the tweakers.net pricewatch.

[[SC]Ceasar]

Good news for you Sjaak. Alternate has the GTO back in stock.
http://www.alternate.nl/html/productDetails.html?baseId=2307&artno=jbxnn5
I would buy it right away if i were you.

[Sjaak]

Right now the score stands at 160€ on my desk and 130€ in my bank account so it'll have to wait for awhile :)

[Sjaak]

Unless i get some $$$ impulse this is going to have to wait for awhile...me and some friends decided to go on summer holiday again somewhere far & expensive so need to start saving a bit :P

[[SC]Ceasar]

xD
One of them is more fun and one of them probably also gets you laid...
you pick what is right.
:D

[datura3]

newb?! Yeah right. Anyway, if you are strapped for cash you should wait until the next price drop. Intel often drops their cpu prices in Feb. I'm also selling off my Dothan system and going conroe. Good to see we decided to do it around the same time :) I will probably wait about a month for prices to drop, since I'm also strapped for cash. I'm not sure when intel will release the 6350 and 6450 which will be the same clock speeds but with 4mb cache. Does anyone know? I bet these will be killer budget overclockers.

[Sjaak]

Ceasar']xD
One of them is more fun and one of them probably also gets you laid...
you pick what is right.
:D

getting laid is the least of my concerns :beer:

[hUMANbEATbOX]

I'm not sure when intel will release the 6350 and 6450 which will be the same clock speeds but with 4mb cache. Does anyone know? I bet these will be killer budget overclockers.
sometime q2.

[YoMatta]

sometime q2.


meaning not until at least april :bang head:

[Sjaak]

So i have acquired some cash and more is on the way. How does this sound for a setup:

775 Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 1.8GHz BO 148,50 148,50
Asus P5B-E S/R/GBL/1394 775 103,90 103,90
1024MB DDRII/1066 Patriot KIT 142,50 142,50
ASUS EN7950GT HTDP 512MB TV-out DVi 196,90 196,90


that memory is a set of 2x 512, and im kind of limited on budget still

[hUMANbEATbOX]

with that, you should be able to get to 2.8ghz. that would be 400fsb. really, it will depend on your ram. that mobo only has 2.1v available for vdimm (unless its the 1.02 rev, haven't actually seen these for sale).

[Sjaak]

How exactly does the memory speed work. CPU has ''533'', board has ''1066'', but im seeing alot of RAM (at much lower prices) labelled as 667 or 800. How exactly does the comparison work, and will a lower ram speed make much of a difference?

[hUMANbEATbOX]

your ram speed is always tied to your fsb speed. on 965 boards, there are no downward deviders, so if you want to run 400fsb*7=2800mhz, your ram will also have to run at 400mhz, or ddr2-800 speeds. if you buy lower rated ram, and OC it you should be OK, but there is a huge range of ram out there. some ddr2-667 won't do a lick past 333mhz, some like mine will do 600mhz (or ddr2-1200) easily.

[Sjaak]

so by default a 533FSB cpu wold use 1066mhz ram?

[Pomegranate]

Don't worry about being out of the loop for a year and a half. Before building the C2D rig in my sig my previous build was a socket A AMD Barton computer, so my knowledge base was more dated than yours. I knew nothing about Intel past socket 478, and very little about AMD past socket A. I got back up to speed by reading forums and using Google. It didn't take long. Some stuff had changed, but a computer's still a computer.

[hUMANbEATbOX]

so by default a 533FSB cpu wold use 1066mhz ram?
there are no core2duo cpu's with a default fsb of 533.

i think you are getting the actual fsb confused with what intel rates it at, after being "quad pumped".

there are celerons and p4's that use a 133fsb, or 533mhz once "quad pumped". all core2duo's are either 200fsb (800 quad pumped) or 266fsb (1066 quad pumped). only the e4300 uses 200fsb.

now, the ram always runs 1:1 (or higher, but that's not recommended) with the actual fsb (200 or 266). if you buy a e6300 and run it at stock speeds, the ram will have to run at ddr2-533 speeds, or 266mhz. if you overclock the cpu to 333fsb, the ram will have to run at ddr2-667 speeds, or 333mhz. to get to 2.8ghz, you will need 400fsb (400*7=2800), and your ram will also have to run at 400mhz, or ddr2-800 speeds.

[Sjaak]

Ah, thanks. No need to get (expensive) 1066 ram then, but two good sticks of 800 instead. (not planning on a huge overclock).

[Sjaak]

Me and my budget decided on:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86 GHz, 1066 MHz, 2 MB, Boxed 1 144,54
Asus P5B 1 90,76
TwinMos DDR2 Memory Dual Channel 1024 MB, PC5300, 667 MHz, 5, Kit Of 2 1 54,62
MSI VGA Radeon RX1950PRO 512 MB 1 179,76
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250 GB, 7200 Rpm, 16 MB, S-ATA II/300 1 58,82
LG DVD Rom GDR-8164SBB 16 X, 52 X, IDE, OEM, Zilver 1 13,87
Cooler Master Centurion 534 Lite Zwart, Zilver, Geen Voeding, 2 X 120 Mm 1 47,90
Fortron Voeding FSP400-60THN 400 Watt , Zilver, Geen, 20- En 24-pins 1 52,94


Ill get a better set of 2GB ram later on - the 'good' stuff is very expensive at the moment.

Comments?

[Sjaak]

opinions?

[Jhonas]

I kinda preferred the Asus P5B-E board you had up earlier.
I read some decent reviews about it.
But it dont have as much EIDE support as you might want for that build.
Still should be a quite good rig.
What graphics card are you having in there?

[Sjaak]

radeon x1950 pro...cant afford much better atm im afraid