Gotta love this rad... [Archive] - Overclockers Forums

Dissolved

12-02-01, 03:31 AM

ok, as u can see i rigged up my lil alum rad with a massive 300+cfm blower.. and when i had my 2 120mm fans on there they were 45c full load.. now i have this blower on, and the water temp dropped 1.3F degrees, but the cpu temp is going back and forth from 44~45C.. so i dunno whats wrong, but i think this rad isnt good enough.. but i also have alto of water in my res, seeing i didnt have a small enough continor to but my pump in..

does anyone like the danger den super cube? i was thinking about getting it, and mounting it my case.. and making my own res to hold my pump.. im really lost on what to do, and i havent came across neone that has the time nor the know how to help me with this.. so if anyone has the extra time, id like a helper.. i do have a cam, so i could take pics and all.. i could possible give in return if asked :)
thanks..

Dissolved

12-02-01, 03:32 AM

heres another angle of it..

Sonny

12-02-01, 03:49 AM

I have no experience with watercooling but let me throw a couple of ideas your way. The airflow thru the rad is not the problem. After going for that big mother of a fan & still little or no gain you should be looking somewere else. Is the block on with the right amount of pressure? How strong is the pump? Is the water getting warm? What are you using to monitor the heat?

Dissolved

12-02-01, 03:54 AM

the block is as tight is i can get it be4 the blots hit the mobo.
300gph pump.
water is 81.3F (27.38c) room temp is 24c
mbm5 for the cpu temp, and a external temp prob thats in the water/res.

The Overclocker

12-02-01, 04:41 AM

i have almost the same rad and i don't think it is a problem, check the hold down devide is on well, possably invest in a shim to stabelise the waterblock

Dissolved

12-02-01, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by the overclocker
i have almost the same rad and i don't think it is a problem, check the hold down devide is on well, possably invest in a shim to stabelise the waterblock

it is on a shim :eh?:

Wicked Klown

12-02-01, 06:57 AM

Do you have the water go to your block then your rad or rad then block.

Sonny

12-02-01, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by Dissolved
the block is as tight is i can get it be4 the blots hit the mobo.
300gph pump.
water is 81.3F (27.38c) room temp is 24c
mbm5 for the cpu temp, and a external temp prob thats in the water/res. If the water is not heating up then it is more than likely the waterblock is not making good contact with the core.

Warlord2

12-02-01, 11:26 AM

touch the waterblock to feel if its warm or not.

those watertemps are pretty good so the radiator is doing its part
I have almost that same radiator and got 35c during load

try maybe taking the shim off and see what happens

Dissolved

12-02-01, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Klownin79
Do you have the water go to your block then your rad or rad then block.

pump>cpu>rad

ive tryed it diff ways, and it stays the same temps..

Dissolved

12-02-01, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Warlord2
touch the waterblock to feel if its warm or not.

those watertemps are pretty good so the radiator is doing its part
I have almost that same radiator and got 35c during load

try maybe taking the shim off and see what happens

well i went to change the res/pump continor, and i tryed to restart my pc, and it wont start... so im done for a while.. i got my other pc to work (kinda) so thats what im on, tell i can fix my gigabyte.

:(

Indigo_ts

12-04-01, 01:21 PM

Try slowing down the waterflow through the rad to give it time to lose heat.

webmedic

12-04-01, 02:21 PM

On my system I got horible temps till I lapped the the block.:eek:

Dissolved

12-04-01, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by webmedic
On my system I got horible temps till I lapped the the block.:eek:

well i would, but the block is shiny smooth.. so no need for it.

mEKbOY

12-04-01, 07:48 PM

What are you using to monitor your temps. If its anything thats on the motherboard then its probaly wrong. They never give accurate temps. Save yourself a headache and get yourself a temp probe. I made the same mistake and payed for it by repeating my reseating of my waterblock thinking something was wrong until i seated one to many times and chipped the core. I got myself a probe and my temps were 8c lower. To confirm this i put a fan over the cpu area using a the motherboard sensor and my temps droped about 12c which is way out of wack proving its easily manipulated by other things and not the actual core.

nil_esh

12-04-01, 10:19 PM

That GA7dxr board has supposedly given temps that are 10C higher than actual temps. I have a GA7dx which is way off. A temp probe (e.g. Compunurse) is a good idea like mekboy suggested.

Dissolved

12-04-01, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by nil_esh
That GA7dxr board has supposedly given temps that are 10C higher than actual temps. I have a GA7dx which is way off. A temp probe (e.g. Compunurse) is a good idea like mekboy suggested.

how are u sure of this? is there any facts online about this?
the 1.4ghz amd i had on my board wont boot nemore.. im still testing it, but it seems dead so far.
whats are ur temps?

Neco

12-04-01, 11:24 PM

Ummm dudes..

did you guys look at that pic ??

His blower is NOT covering the entire radiator...

He needs a shroud..

Now I don't think I'm too way off on this, but when you have something sitting up against it like that, and not covering the entire area, you have a dead spot, and you are not fully utilizing the radiator's cooling potential..

Try building a shroud to duct the air over the entire surface area of the radiator - either that, or buy a new radiator that will fit over the blower perfectly..

The danger den cubes you spoke of, fit a 120mm fan on either end I beleive..

whatever works for you, but I'd try building a shroud for the radiator first..

-Neco.

Dissolved

12-05-01, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Neco

whatever works for you, but I'd try building a shroud for the radiator first..

-Neco.

i dunno... i guess ill just have to live with it.. im gonna buy some water welter, and get a temp prob right next to the cpu die if i can. i dont have ne more money for stuff, unless i can sell some parts i bought that im not useing. but neways im gonna go back to the 2 120mm fans i had on the rad, instead of the blower, its too loud, and i dont wanna lose my hand in it. i think one of my pros is the pump i have gets warm i think. so that could be why the water isnt getting cool enough. the water is 24C now and my cpu is 52c idle.. i have my mobo sitting on my desk, w/o a case and the room temp is about 24c.. so i dunno.. i guess i have something wrong, but its hard to get help online, and i dont have any friends that would know anything about this..

IFMU

12-05-01, 12:48 AM

OK after reading the whole thing here, Ive come to 2 possible causes.
1: The temps not reading it right. The mobo gauge isnt right.
2: The water block is not in good contact with the core.

The first one, go and buy a 15 dollar indoor outdoor temperature gauge. You can take and place the temp gauge within reach of the cpu core. So that might give you better temp readings if that is the problem.

The second, try removing the shim and see if that works. Its a possiblity that the shim is too thick and its stopping good contact with the core.

And one more thing, although the block may be shiny smooth, that doesnt mean that its flat. Try to get some of the finest grit sandpaper you can, 1500-2000 grit. Run the block over it a few times and look at the scratch pattern. If it scratches the entire block, then its good, if it only hits the corners or the middle, its not. One detail, make sure you wet sand it, makes it easier to work with and will save the paper from gettin ruined so you can use it some again...

Hope this helps yea man!~!

Dissolved

12-05-01, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by ifmu
Hope this helps yea man!~!

i did remove the shim, and i gained like 6c, but im still 51~53c at idle now.. my res water is 27c, and room temp is 24c.

i have the water block with alot of spring force, i dont wanna do much more, cuz i dont wanna break the chip..

i just have the 2 120mm fans sucking the air from the rad.. and the config is.. res/pum ~ cpu ~ rad. just useing distilled water right now, im gonna order water welter as soon as i can.. the water's allready turned the holes lines a lil whiter then they were clear at first.

jbell

12-05-01, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by Dissolved

i did remove the shim, and i gained like 6c, but im still 51~53c at idle now.. my res water is 27c, and room temp is 24c.

i have the water block with alot of spring force, i dont wanna do much more, cuz i dont wanna break the chip..

i just have the 2 120mm fans sucking the air from the rad.. and the config is.. res/pum ~ cpu ~ rad. just useing distilled water right now, im gonna order water welter as soon as i can.. the water's allready turned the holes lines a lil whiter then they were clear at first.

Hey bro - sounds like the water ain't flowing.... can you tell if the pump is actually pumping???
if your res and room temps are that low and your chip is that high..... your flow isn't doing its job! are you runing 1/2 of 3/4??? how powerfull is the pump and how far is the res to the chip? are you going from the res to the chip?

Dissolved

12-05-01, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by jbell

Hey bro - sounds like the water ain't flowing.... can you tell if the pump is actually pumping???
if your res and room temps are that low and your chip is that high..... your flow isn't doing its job! are you runing 1/2 of 3/4??? how powerfull is the pump and how far is the res to the chip? are you going from the res to the chip?

its flowing... read my sig... all the info plus more is there lmao..
300gph.. 3/8"ID tubing

IFMU

12-05-01, 03:49 AM

Well you might want to test each portion of the rig... see if there is somewhere that isnt flowing... thats not a bad idea to check out...

Ok, first, you have contact with the core...
second.. you have good flow through the rad
third... hell man.. I have to say that you got some bad stuff, or that you have a clog somewhere in the lines... I have to agree with jbell man... seriouslly...

Neco

12-05-01, 03:50 AM

I honestly don't know what to tell you...

I disasembled the cardboard box that held my dismond homenetwork kit (the cardboard inside the box, not the box itself)

and I cut a hole for my fan (which is not 120mm and not even 90 cfm @ 12 volts) and for the radiator tubes and stuff so I could fit it around it.. I sealed up some edges with duct tape, and I put mounted the fan - I run it at 7volts, with the window open (cold/maryland) @ 700 I never saw it go above 35 C... when I get my new stuff I can't guarantee my temps will stay that will when I O/C but I don't think I'll be hitting 50 either...

300gph in a 3/8 system ?? maybe the water is going through the radiator too fast..

-Neco.

Dissolved

12-05-01, 03:54 AM

well, there has been said that this mobo reads temps higher then what they are, but still.. my alpha got the same temps as this..

im looking up prices for a compunurse, and some other lil mods, i need so better stuff. id buy a different rad, but im out of money.. like ive said 20498203 times on here.. im thankful for the help tho, im getting a few new idea's.. but idea=money
and idea=money-wallet=negitive. if that makes any sence...
id probly have a nuklear plant in my room if i had the money.. i live for this stuff.. i just wish my luck wasnt so bad like this..

Dissolved

12-05-01, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by Neco

300gph in a 3/8 system ?? maybe the water is going through the radiator too fast..

-Neco.

300gph sounds fast, but its not even that strong... i have my tubes on with mini zip ties, and when i plug the tubeing up, they dont even move... im gonna get some pics of my setup i have right now, so u guys and see what im working with..

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:00 AM

im gonna post a few, so sry if i {edit}tick anyone off with more then 1 pic, but i dunno how to edit them all into one :(..

i used a word that wasnt near bad, but i guess it was filtered, so i will edit this, so ppl dont think im cussing.. sorry.

jbell

12-05-01, 04:05 AM

if it is flowing....
do you have an ear temp probe? anything else other than the mobo probe to use to check against?

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:05 AM

another

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:06 AM

Originally posted by jbell
if it is flowing....
do you have an ear temp probe? anything else other than the mobo probe to use to check against?

yea, but the prob is big... and it wont fit between the cpu/W.block.

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:10 AM

yea another one..

jbell

12-05-01, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by Neco
I honestly don't know what to tell you...

300gph in a 3/8 system ?? maybe the water is going through the radiator too fast..

-Neco.

I think speed is an issue here - from the beginning

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:15 AM

well, ive seen alot of ppl with the inline pumps that are like 600gph, why wouldnt they get bad temps also?

jbell

12-05-01, 04:15 AM

is your pump variable speed?

do you have a smaller one?

Remember - water can hold a lot of heat - but it takes longer to absorb that heat compared to a typical metal/air cool design, your 300 gpm should be ran around 100gpm see what difference it makes

jbell

12-05-01, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by Dissolved
well, ive seen alot of ppl with the inline pumps that are like 600gph, why wouldnt they get bad temps also?

is your block alum or copper? how big is it? are you using asII? is it tightly fastened? have you contacted the manufacturer?

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by jbell
is your pump variable speed?

do you have a smaller one?

Remember - water can hold a lot of heat - but it takes longer to absorb that heat compared to a typical metal/air cool design, your 300 gpm should be ran around 100gpm see what difference it makes

i have a few fountian pumps, but i couldnt connect them to my tubing, cuz there really small..

it has a adpter u stick on, that has a nob u turn to reduse flow..

i see what ur saying..

jbell

12-05-01, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by Dissolved

i have a few fountian pumps, but i couldnt connect them to my tubing, cuz there really small..

it has a adpter u stick on, that has a nob u turn to reduse flow..

i see what ur saying..

try this - your res water is ice cold compared to the chip... reverse the flow - have it run res - pump - components - cpu - res

slow her down too - experiment that way....

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by jbell

is your block alum or copper? how big is it? are you using asII? is it tightly fastened? have you contacted the manufacturer?

its tin plated top i think? (its sliver) and copper incert for the bottom. i have it pretty darn tight, i dont wanna break my cpu.. its so tight, the water block dont even move or turn..

my water block "z4" (https://www.cpufx.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=o&Product_Code=ZAHS&Category_Code=UC)

jbell

12-05-01, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by Dissolved

its tin plated top i think? (its sliver) and copper incert for the bottom. i have it pretty darn tight, i dont wanna break my cpu.. its so tight, the water block dont even move or turn..

my water block "z4" (https://www.cpufx.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=o&Product_Code=ZAHS&Category_Code=UC)

I gotta go - but will think more about this.... try contacting the seller and manufacturer - get input from them - your a client they owe you some tech support some how.......

Good luck man an d keep me informed - i really need to get aol and other progs on my linux rig up and running!

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by jbell

try this - your res water is ice cold compared to the chip... reverse the flow - have it run res - pump - components - cpu - res

slow her down too - experiment that way....

while talking to ifmu, i thought of something.. its an underwater pump, ok so i was thinking, why would it have 2 ports(as i call them) i had the water tube that was running the water into the res free, not hooked to anything.. so im gonna hook it up to the in port on the pump, and see if nething changes..

*extra* ifmu asked if it could be an inline pump, and i proved that wrong when i first tested it, after i took the pump outts the res while testing, it leaked all over me.. looked like i was 5 after seeing... well i wont try to be funny.. you get where i was gonna go

Dissolved

12-05-01, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by jbell

I gotta go - but will think more about this.... try contacting the seller and manufacturer - get input from them - your a client they owe you some tech support some how.......

Good luck man an d keep me informed - i really need to get aol and other progs on my linux rig up and running!

well, thanks for your help.

cpufix or whatever they are claims 99% of there buyers get 39C or lower at full load.. so unless my cpu temp on this board is off, im not getting what they claim..

Neco

12-05-01, 07:06 AM

If you haven't added the water wetter yet, I would try that also..

I understand you don't have alot of money too, so thats the next best thing to try.. they claim a significant drop..

but you have to measure it good too.. a few ounces will treat a whole gallon of water...

And the only reason I urge you to try a radiator shroud, is because it will draw the air over all the radiator fins (or at least most) and enhance the cooling of the water while it comes through.. and really you can build one out of cardboard if you want.. that's gotta be dirt cheap if I ever seen it..

Just don't give up man, water cooling is a great hobby, it just takes a little tough love ;)

-Neco.

Chakrum

12-05-01, 04:57 PM

Hello, I'm new here, well sorta. I've been reading this forum to get ideas for my first water cooling system. Ok, now on to the point. I have a similar set-up as you Dissolved. I have the same radiator at least. I was using Motherboard Monitor 5 to watch my temps. Much to my surprise, they weren't a lot better than when I was air cooling. I was getting 45C at idle and up to 50C under load. This was with an overclocked 1.2 T-bird. I had a temp probe laying around and finally got brave enough to try to fit it as close to the core as I could. I had heard the motherboard's temp sensor is usually wrong, so I wanted to see for sure. I finally got it in there, booted up, and was very surprised! My idle temp was holding steady at 37C. MBM5 was showing 45C still. So I loaded up Tribes2 and played for about 10 minutes. During this time my temp went up to 39C on the probe and never got higher. When I left the game, MBM5 was showing 49C. After letting it idle for a bit temps on the probe went back to 37C. MBM5 went back to 45.

I would get a probe before getting too excited about your temps. I hope this helps some.

Stephen Castles

12-05-01, 05:23 PM

i think if you are using the under-core temp probe on the mobo, it's wrong. i made a cheap block and put it on my K6-2 400 OCed to 500, with the chessy air cooler i had on it, the probe said 32c, with water cooling it said 38c, this isn't right since i had ice in a bucket of water to cool it, and the block was ice cold, so you see that with a socket temp probe you should take about 10c off the temp with water cooling. I'm gonna get a compunurse soon.

Dissolved

12-06-01, 02:14 AM

im gonna get a compunurse soon.. and see what that says.. then ill update here..

jbell

12-06-01, 03:01 AM

woo hoo - damn I hope you get this fixed soon - its a shame to not have a cool system...... I want to go cooler still - but i like being air cooled - I am not trusting yet of water cooled systems...

Dissolved

12-06-01, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by jbell
woo hoo - damn I hope you get this fixed soon - its a shame to not have a cool system...... I want to go cooler still - but i like being air cooled - I am not trusting yet of water cooled systems...

heh, im not trusting them due to there performance..
im like 2 inchs short of getting a pletier.. but i dunno yet
id have to make my own cold plate.. seeing this block its different..

ButcherUK

12-07-01, 03:54 AM

You'd probably want a bigger rad too for a pelt setup. A heater core is a much better rad than the tube and fin type you have.

Dissolved

12-07-01, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by ButcherUK
You'd probably want a bigger rad too for a pelt setup. A heater core is a much better rad than the tube and fin type you have.

yea i dunno why this sucks so much.. well i put a fan on my res, and i have a temp prob, on the bottom of the res and the temp prob says 70.2f(21.2c) room temp is 72f(22c) and my cpu says 44c while im typing this.. and i dont have anything running other then AIM...

Dissolved

12-07-01, 07:15 AM

heres the lil fan mod i did to take off 2degrees(f) off my res water.
its blowing in, and on the right i have the lid up a lil to let the air out.. got the idea from those bong coolers... ill do pretty much nething just to get a few degrees or mhz :)

ButcherUK

12-07-01, 01:36 PM

If your water is cool but cpu is hot then it's almost certainly a mounting issue, what temp is the block at?

Dissolved

12-07-01, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by ButcherUK
If your water is cool but cpu is hot then it's almost certainly a mounting issue, what temp is the block at?

well its mounted fine, and Alot of force.. i sware i heard the cpu crack lol... i dont have a temp prob that would fit between tho..

nil_esh

12-10-01, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by Dissolved

how are u sure of this? is there any facts online about this?
the 1.4ghz amd i had on my board wont boot nemore.. im still testing it, but it seems dead so far.
whats are ur temps?

No facts... I've just seen a lot of people having trouble with their GA-7dxr's (and ga-7dx) onboard temp probes telling them its hot when they've got good cooling. Its a well-known that mobo's give false temps however, so a temp probe could save you some trouble.

Good luck!

BigBlockk

12-10-01, 01:47 AM

Check the water block to make sure it is flat. The reason for lapping is to make them flat not pritty. You could have large voids between the slug and block if it is not flat.

Also, Neco has the right idea. It looks like almost half of your radiator is not getting air from that nice big blower you got.

BigBlockk

Later.....

Kryten

12-10-01, 05:11 AM

Would it be possible to monitor the temps accurately before and after each component??

ButcherUK

12-10-01, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by Dissolved

well its mounted fine, and Alot of force.. i sware i heard the cpu crack lol... i dont have a temp prob that would fit between tho..

Force isn't the criterion for good mounting. As noted it's a good FLAT mount that you want. You can have an much force as you like but if it's not flat you won't get good cooling.

Dissolved

12-10-01, 04:42 PM

well its flat, cuz it screwed down my spring tenion.. so the springs will even the block out..

BigBlockk

12-10-01, 05:57 PM

So you are one of those people that will ask for an opinion and then argue with whomever gives it to you.

Don't you realize it would take several thousend pounds per square inch of force to even out a warped water block. I do believe the processor would be crushed long before you were able to iron out any voids that MAY be between the die and water block simply by cranking down the screws on this thing.

I think you need to do some reading about heat transfer, lapping and fan ducting. This website has and can connect you with more than enough information on these subjects. Then, take your system apart and detail each subsystem. Then carefully put it back together.

It looks like you have some good hardware and a couple good ideas. You just need to think everything through. In the process you will eliminate variables. In the end you should gain the performance you seek.

BigBlockk

Later.....

Dissolved

12-10-01, 06:17 PM

you have the wrong idea about me.. this post was a for a few friends that knew me and knew what i was trying to do. "So you are one of those people that will ask for an opinion and then argue with whomever gives it to you." i havent argued with neone in this post, now just with you, and that coment was offience to me. you should change the way you write to ppl in here, cuz i dont think you have any idea what im asking for in My thread.

BigBlockk

12-10-01, 11:17 PM

You say I don't know what you want out of your own thread. Well, in your first post you say "I don't know what's wrong", "I.m really lost on what to do" and "I would like a helper". Sounds to me that you would like some help.

Webmedic suggested you use some very fine sand paper (on a known flat surface, like glass) to make sure that the water block is flat. Well, you didn't want to do this because the block is "shinny and smooth". As I have said before, the purpose for useing sand paper (like 1200 grit) is to make the block flat not pritty. Anyone that knows what their doing will tell you this.

Neco made a very good point about the fan ducting, or lack of it I should say. Now instead of making a duct out of cardboard and duct tape you told him/her "I'll just have to live with it". If you'll look at your own pictures you'll see that the fan is blowing on only half the radiator.

ifmu came back to the idea of making sure that the water block is flat. You told him/her about the "spring force" in the clamp youre using. What these have to do with each other, I don't know.

ButcherUK made the mistake of suggesting that you make sure that the water block is flat (you know, people just keep saying that). Well, you told him/her that "spring force" had now become "spring tension" and that it was strong enough to "even the block out". If this doesn't tell everyone that you don't know what youre talking about, I don't know what does.

These people tried to help you and you just blew them off. You say you have no money yet instead of trying these ideas that would only cost the price of a few peices of sand paper youre talking about buying a new water block or even a peltier.

Go figure.

If you have taken offence at what I've said then, I'm sorry. I ment no such thing. I was just making an observation.

Also, if any of the moderators have seen this little exchange and think that I have been abusive in any way, please post here and let me know. I will leave this forum and never come back. The only reason I'm here at all is because I became a mamber of the Folding Team. I've made a few posts and read a lot more and I've learned some good stuff but if you don't want me around, I'll go.

BigBlockk

Later.....maybe.....