New to watercooling

Hi there

After the summer I intend to build a new computer, and for the occasion I wish to build it using water cooling parts.

I am not doing this for performance, but foremost for silence; since my computers tend to run 24/7.

I intend to fix the HDD problem with a no-vibe casing, although im still not entirely sure what to do with the PSU.

Since I haven't build the computer yet, im completely open to any cabinet, but I will be stuffing a geforce 8800 or whatever is at the market (new nvidia or ati) by then, and an Intel Core 2 Duo E6600/6700.

And I intend to get both (CPU and GPU) water cooled.

I have read up on a lot of information on water cooling (mostly from http://h2okoeling.dk/) and I would prefer what they refer to as the European ideology of water cooling, involving smaller tubes of 6 or 8 mm.

Another concern that I came across, are the passively cooled items, such as the motherboard chips. With a lack of air flow, they might overheat. What are the common fixes to this? Apparently water cooling for the motherboard is not very popular, so is it just commonly expected that the motherboard can take it?

But my main question, can you please help me find the different components needed for the system I have described?

Thank you very much

- Twaize

They've got blocks for the chipset and mosfets to take care of the mobo. Since you're running a low flow rate loop the resistance from the additional blocks wont hurt your performance any.

well from the euro-centric perspective ... swiftec does offer 1/4" fittings for all their current products, except pumps, they do however have step-down adapters for those ... there are a number of chipset cooling options, incl water ... the newer i680 boards are being reported as having heat issues w/ the southbridge when oc'ing, but if you arent planning to oc then passive should be fine

Well I would prefer to have components made for the smaller fittings, and designed around that philosophy (I have understood that the cooler heads are different in design, between the two different ways), instead of just downsized.

you might want to look into the TT bigwater 120 (1/4" tubing) or the bigwater 775 (3/8") ... tho kits here are not fondly looked upon in general, im currently running the bigwater 120 and have added the swiftec mcw50 (gpu) and mcw30 (chipset) without any major detriment to the loop - however it doesnt leave alot of room for upgrading or expansion due to its limited size and adaptability w/o going through TT directly ... i had to do some creative adaptation to run the swiftecs in the loop .. which is my biggest regret w/ this kit

If budget is not much of a concern aquapc has some very nice small-bore watercooling stuff. If you head over to the bit-tech forums and look at some project logs, you will see many people using that stuff (it's really pretty!).

As for motherboard components, my solution is to simply add small heatsinks to pretty much everything that gets hot, and rely on the airflow from the front mounted radiator fans for cooling. This works reasonably well for me, but my pc is not really all that quiet. It might be easier to add a large and slow fan either to the back or the side to provide airflow, especially if your the airflow from the radiator is not moving over the motherboard.

I have a couple questions for you. How much do you want to spend? Where are you located (it's easier to get euro components if you're in Europe, for obvious reasons)? Is the size of the case of any concern (bigger is always easier)?

And welcome to the forums!

The spending limit is quite high, I mean im not gonna pay the white out of my eyes. But a limit an upper limit of $300 is probably where I am aiming.
I am located in Europe, and the the size of the case is big. I mean server hightower. The latest case I have been looking at is the Lian Li V2000B Plus cabinet, which should have more then sufficient space.

And I did look on to bit-tech forums, but im still confused by it.

EDIT: Is the aquapc site supposed to be in Spanish?

You don't have to be an expert to apply some simple logic to the task at hand.

Find a PSU like SEASONIC which tries hard to be more quiet than others by using very large fans at low speed. Be careful with fanless PSU's, some of them have overheated and died under stress.

If necessary replace chipset heatsinks with even bigger ones by ZALMAN etc.

INNOVATEK makes a passsive radiator (no fan) that looks rather pretty but can handle (dissipate) only 90 Watts of heat. (Maybe use two?)

Check out ZALMAN RESERATOR maybe, I don't know much about it though.

Choose a case with a top opening and a slow 120mm fan or bigger to support the natural trend of heat to rise upwards.

Choose your pump very carefully, to push water through 1/4" (6mm) tubing takes more effort and can be more audible, you should consider 8mm tubing at least. (INNOVATEK)

If you're new at this, consider also an outboard unit like a KOOLANCE EXOS 2 to simplify your work. Speed of fans can be regulated to a minimum of noise and you only have to install two water blocks yourself (cpu/vga). Pretty case and readout of temps etc. ($300 or so )

Keep in mind that vga block installation is more difficult in real life than cpu block due to the many variations of vga card designs and their mounting hole offsets and the more delicate design. Remember, you have to take the old fan and heatsink off first without destroying anything!

If you accidently kill your top video card it will cost you a lot more than your $300 w/c budget allows for.

Just keep asking...and we will give answers. this is a great forum!

The 2000v is a super case, and is very easy to work with, so it would be a very good choice. Here is a rather extreme example of small bore watercooling in that case: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=78674&highlight=AlumaxX

The innovatek stuff is actually german, so you should be able to find it in that language too. The easiest way to find a retailer for it is to google innovatek and the country you are located in.

There are many good quiet PSUs, silentpcreview likes the corsair and silverstone 650w models, which would be plenty of power for your needs.

Well I just read through all 42 pages of that mod, and it was a very nice read, and took about an hour (fast reader).

As you probably know, this is not the thing im looking for, but my main concerns are to get the right components, I mean I don't even know how to tell the european ones from the american ones. And can someone please tell me what the propor names are for them, instead of referring to them as continents.

And also seeing how big the case is, I probably don't need more than V1200 case. It is not like im getting anything near what he does.

But whereever I go, http://www.aquacomputer.de/ keeps popping up, is that a really good place to buy the items?

Or can you people recommend some other good european sites? (Only european please, I don't want to pay import taxes)

And to reply to artinhawaii:

I have read some reviews of Zalman Reserator, but what I can't seem to get an answer for anywhere, is if 8800 GTS or GTX are too hot for that kind of cooling? Although it is quiet, it has higher temperatures then a lot of other systems.

And I am aware of the gpu being more tricky, so I took an old gfx card I had lying around and carefully dissembled it, assembled it again and it worked. But it wasn't very advanced, and I didn't have to a cooler on it or anything, but im not clumsy if that is what you are trying to ask.

Also what are the 8mm tubes called in inches? Like 3/8 or whatever?

3/8 tubing would be 9.5mm, 8mm is a bit less than 1/3 of an inch. The Zalman would not be a good fit for your purposes, as it would not provide much headroom even if it could produce decent temperatures.

Here is a list of what you should get:
Laing DDC pump w/ petra's top. Here is a UK store that carries it :http://www.coolercases.co.uk/acatalog/Pump.html
If you are willing to use 3/8in tubing you should get:
DangerDen TDX CPU waterblock w/ 3/8in barbs
Edvard König EK-FC8800 8800 GTX full coverage GPU block w/ 3/8in barbs
HWLabs Black Ice Stealth GT240 dual 120mm radiator w/ 3/8in barbs
All of this is also available at the coolercases website.

If you want to use 8mm tubing you should get:
Aqua-computer cuplex PRO Rev. 2 CPU block
Aqua-computer aquagraFX for 8800 GTX GPU block
Aqua-computer airplex PRO 240 radiator
and use the DDC pump I listed above.
All of this stuff can be found at the aqua-computer website.

The 3/8in setup I listed will cost less and perform better than the 8mm setup, and the tubing is only 1.5mm larger. Both lists would go very well in a v1200 case. I can probably find you some other options, but the best thing for you to do would be to go through the stuff they have at the coolercases website and see what strikes your fancy. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

I hope this is more of what you are looking for.

Hey, im very thankful that you would made a list for what you think would be a good fit. But I still ask that it is 8mm, because I want it silent, and so using a pump intended for 10mm is not optimal? I mean it is designed for a high flow and lower pressure, so would it work as well?

But the 3/8 list you made does look really impressive, but how much noise would the pump for 3/8 make compared to a 8mm?

Oh and a question I completely forgot, in case the water inside the tubings/radiator/etc. freezes, what do I do?
It is not a completely unlikely scenario since right now, it is -20°C (-4°F) where I intend to move. So is there something to do about it?

EDIT: I couldn't find any pc cases on coolercases, but I am trying to look around, I just haven't found a website yet that like gathers different. I am just looking around at different manufactorers, so if someone could procure a good link, then I would be very happy'

EDIT2: I found my way to thermaltake's site and the cases there look really good both visual and technical (from my limited point of view), are those cases good, or are they no good?

EDIT3 (yes another one): I also looked into PSU's on silentpcreview, and my only question about this, is how many watt my computer would need. Considering GPU, CPU etc. Would 520W suffice? Also of the two, I preferred the corsair.

EDIT4: I noticed here http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=369416 that the Black Ice GT gather A LOT of dust, and would have to be taken out of the loop to be cleaned regularly. That does not sound very appealing?

- Twaize

P.s. Thank you for your continued support

The same pumps are generally used no matter what the tubing size. If I am not mistaken the aqua-computer pumps are Ehiem units that have been re-branded, and those pumps are routinely used for 3/8" and 1/2" systems. The DDC pump will be as quiet as any pump out there, and the tubing size should not significantly alter the noise characteristics. No matter what tubing size you go with, I would get the DDC pump.

As for freezing, I understand the problem, it was below zero where I live too (went skiing in fact), and the simple solution is to add a bit of automotive antifreeze to the water you use. This is recommended in all cases, as it helps prevent corrosion as well, but if you are worried about freezing, then you should use about 15%-20% antifreeze rather than the usual 5%-10%.

I'm afraid that I don't know of any good resellers in Europe, but I would recommend going to the Lian-Li website, they have links to various resellers, and you should be able to find some sites there.

Thermaltake's cases are OK, not great, but not terrible. At least that is their reputation around here, I have never personally used one. Lian-Li and Cooler Master are generally considered two of the top names, but I think that you will find a Thermaltake case to be sufficient, and it is an opportunity to save some money.

I should have mentioned that Silverstone and Corsiar use the same OEM for their PSUs, so they are funtionally identical. I would say that a 520w PSU would power your system without problems, but any upgrades might push you beyond the capabilities of that unit (not to mention overclocking). I would consider the 650w models, as they should be a bit more future-proof, but you should be OK with either.

I had not seen that info on the GT, so you might want to consider another model. You can used compressed air to clean them, so disconnecting the radiator from the loop shouldn't be necessary, but even that is a hassle. You could look into the Black Ice Extreme line. However, all radiators are going to collect some dust, it's kind of an inherent problem.

Keep the questions coming, and remember everyone here had a first system that scared the crap out of them, and it is natural to need a lot of help with the first system, this stuff ain't exactly common knowledge

I read somewhere that the Laing DDC pump is very weak, or at least doesn't pump a lot of water. But I could also imagine that the petra top is there to fix it, is that the case?

Also my question of pump noise is more referred to the higher amount of water needed to be pumped through. When more water is pumped, the pump has to run faster and would then make more noise, or am I wrong?

And as far where to buy the cases, that is no problem. There are amazing webpages for that in Scandinavia (im living in a mixture of Denmark and Norway), but my concern was finding a place to look at a wide array of cases, and not just lian li or just thermaltake.

Also I have gone completely away from thermaltakes cases, I didn't like the look I just thought that they would be a good place to start. But after I asked my physics teacher about resonance and decibel levels, I found out that the more fans you have, the more noise they make even though they are at the same sound level.
And the easiest place is not the best place to start, you need a learning curve. So I thinking very seriously about the Lian Li V1200, but Danish taxes get annoying when the price here is 290 USD for the v1200 (But I am going to look at cooler master now)

But another question that has puzzled me, am I supposed to 120mm fans on the radiators; or are they supposed to run without?

And I also read somewhere that the fans i the V1200 cabinet are quite loud (something like 39 decibel are idle speed), but I would be able to change them myself if that is the case, right?

EDIT: I read that adding automotive antifreeze is a really bad idea because it contains glykol that makes your liquid thicker, so it doesn't flow as good.
Also does the radiator have to be placed horizontally? Can it be placed vertically or diagonally? I am asking this because 240mm seems like a really long radioator, and I don't know if it can fit inside a lian li v1200. And on the topic of Lian Li V1200, when the Corsair or Silverstrone PSU is inserted, the fan will be pointing downwards. I do know that there are holes for exactly this, but isn't it just slightly bad? Although I do suppose that you could point the fan upwards, but then it would just be heating the motherboard...

EDIT2: I just looked at cooler master's, and despite them looking good and reviews are nice. I would prefer Lian Li any day.

I think you're worrying too much about the little stuff...using an additive in your loop may make the water "thicker" but it will prevent algae growth and save you a lot of headaches.

Thermaltake cases are actually really good, I've had my Armor for just over a year now and I couldn't be happier with it. I've owned two Lian Lis prior to it and it measures up in every department, except being much heavier(the silver Armor is aluminum but my black one is steel). If the Lian Li is going to be near US$300 you're paying far too much, I'd see what kind of cases you can get between US$100-200. There are a handful of cases that work exceptionally well for watercooling, namely the TT Armor and the Coolermaster Stacker, but let us know what you can get and we can make a suggestion. The Lian Li 7 series is a good choice if you can get a good price on one, Aquacomputer has a ready built system called the G70 that you might want to look at for ideas.

Radiators are supposed to have 120mm fans on them, some people even put fans on both sides to maximize the airflow. There's no need to disassemble your loop to clean a radiator, just power down the PC and use a can of compressed air to clean it once a month or so.

Noise level is all subjective, you'll find a lot of fans advertising really low decibel rates with high CFM (cubic feet per minute). Thermaltake is particularly guilty of this, but their fans are still top notch(I use two blue ones on my radiator). Get yourself some fans with a rheostat so you can control the speed and select the noise level. Alternatively you can get a front panel device to control the fan speeds, but I find they bring unnecessary clutter to your wiring. 120mm fans are going to be a lot quieter than smaller ones, so pick a case with as many 120mm slots as possible.

Lastly, tube size is a matter of great debate on the forum, it all depends on what pump you buy. I started with a D4 pump and 1/2" tubing, but after that pump failed (it was used) I bought a 3/8" pump and had to change all my fittings and tubing. Most pumps and radiators ship with either 1/2" or 3/8" fittings, I wouldn't recommend going down to 1/4" unless you're going to buy a kit from Koolance or Aquatek. You'll be hard pressed to find a pump that's as good as the ones available for 3/8" and 1/2".

Thermaltake cases are not significantly cheaper than lian li cabinets, at least not of what I can find on Danish sites. But of the thermaltake cabinets, I did prefer the armor one.

But my main concern is that it has 9 fans or something like that, and they are going to make one hell of a noise. And could someone please enlighten me on what a rheostat is, and where I can find one?

Thank you

P.s. still a lot of unanswered questions in my previous post, so please don't just skip to the bottom

A rheostat is a knob that controls the voltage sent to the fan, effectively slowing it down and making it much quieter. In my Armor I have six fans, yet it runs at near-silence. I took out all the fans that it came with and replaced them with low speed fans, except for one high speed fan that I lower to inaudible levels via rheostat.

As far as pump noise, it's going to be very low even with a high-flow pump.

The 520W Corsair should provide enough power for most high end systems, could you let us know what parts you plan to use for CPU/GPU? Someone mentioned an 8800GTX up there, if you're going to have several hard drives(3+) you might want to consider moving up to 600W.

Any other unanswered questions we can help you with?

The DDC with the top is very powerful, and very small, if you asked the people on the forums what pump is the best, I would bet that 9 out of 10 would say the DDC (just FYI, I don't use one, and I'm no fanboy). The modified top really helps with flow rates, and the head (or pressure) that the pump produces is much more important than the flow rate, and the DDC shines in that area.

As for pump noise, the design of the pump has far more to do with it than the amount of water moved, and the moving water, since there will be no air in the system, will produce no noise at all. In 99% of watercooling setups, the pump noise is insignificant compared to fan noise.

To find some more cases, I would go to newegg.com and look through their selection of cases. You won't order from them, as a US company, but they have a good selection and take good photos of the cases.

You certainly want to run 120mm fans on the radiator. The radiator can be mounted in any orientation your heart desires without affecting the performance of the system. The only thing that limits that is you must have the fill port at the highest point in the system when you are bleeding the air from it. For your needs you can also look at the single 120mm radiators, which should be able to handle your heat loads. The PA160 might also be a good choice (its a larger single fan radiator). This would make mounting much easier.

Antifreeze does hurt performance a bit, but the amount is very insignificant, less than 1degree C, and it's positive aspects outweigh that slight loss.

To springbok: In my first post it is mentioned that I desire an 8800 GTX and E6600 or E6700.

Well then, where can I buy a rheostat? Because of almost limitless uses of a rheostat, google is no good for finding it.
And I am planning on at least 3 harddisk, likely even more. I am intending 2x10k rpm 36 GB SATA hdd's on RAID 0 for running windows and vital programs and games; and then some storage harddisks.

About the highest point for filling, I was planning on a reservoir in my top 5,25" room. But what about draining the system, how is that done?

And for the liquid to use, I found a very good and very comprehensive guide on a danish site, dedicated to water cooling.

Also on the DDC with a petra top, there are specs for two 18w models, which one is it? They have quite different specs.

Here are some premade ones: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fancontrollers.html Making one yourself is really simple if you can find the right rheostat.