Forget linux, Forget Windows, Get Lindows ??

[UnseenMenace]

A new PC Operating system that will run both Linux and Windows applications was announced as the lauch of Windows Xp was reaching a crescendo. the Linux-based Lindows OS comes from a start-up called Lindows.com, founded by Michael Robertso, CEO of MP3.com. It is based on the WINEproject, which stuck a Windows program interface onto a unix core..

Source :- PCW.. January2002

Click here for Lindows home page (http://www.lindows.com)

[XWRed1]

Surprise!

Lindows is just another Linux distro, except with heavy Wine integration for people who can't make themselves ditch Windows programs.

[PolyPill]

I think this is mostly hype, and I really don't want linux running windows programs. If that happens then why even bother developing programs for linux? Just write them for windows and it will run on linux too. This is what killed OS/2, it could run windows programs so no one bothered to write native OS/2 programs.

[XWRed1]

Exactly. And its not like running a Windows program in Linux is pleasurable. Its mostly kludgy, and you don't take advantage of any Linux features at all.

If you're just gonna run Windows programs, why not just run Windows?

[David]

This could turn into a 'is a linux closer to windows a good idea' debate.

[XWRed1]

And the answer to that would be no.

[Bmxpunk86pl]

yes, defenetly keep windows and linux apart.

[Slychilde]

Heh, in a Utopian society that would be possible but not in the real world. People know windows and many of them had a hard time learning THAT let a lone linux. They're not gonna wanna switch unless it's easy and they'll be able to use all their *stuff*. For the average user, Lindows sounds, and I do mean sounds like a good idea and is a good way to get linux more support/users, but for us the computer junkies I whole heartedly agree with you.


Good idea, hopefully they can get somewhere with it :)

[chaim79]

Lindows has a simple range for a market, it's for people who want to get rid of windows (for whatever reason) but not get rid of their precious windows apps. the only way that they can do this is using wine or something similer to emulate windows for their apps. With the option of Lindows many non-techies who are getting tired of windows but are scared of Learning Linux will jump at the chance to use something like this.

For us techies we woln't have much interest in this product.

As a side note. I am a student of a tech college working for Network Communications Specialist. This kind of software is something that I will probably have to learn. there is a chance that I will work at a business that runs windows, can't afford to update to the latest windows, and wants to look into the linux possabilities. Using something like Lindows may be an option for a business to do a partial rollover to linux, starting with the OS, then slowly replacing software as user training finishes teaching the users about the previous level. So for my future I will be playing with Lindows and other options to see how well it works, so if ever my boss assigns me to look into this for my employer I would have a foundation to start from and can jump right into compatibility tests.

[PsYko420]

You might have forgot you will have to pay for lindows! And its basically a cheap rip off you can get linux emu's to run windows progs just as well as lindows. And if your that desperate to run windows and linux just do a dual boot system twice the fun half the cost!

[PsYko420]

You might have forgotten to add you have to pay for Lindows. And its basically a cheap rip-off seeing as there are plenty of windows emu's out there already. And if you are really that desperate just do a dual boot system!

[XWRed1]

You might have forgotten to add that it is built off of GPL software, so you DON'T have to pay for it.

[PolyPill]

It's not a matter of running windows programs, it's having programs with the same or better functionality. You can make linux look and behave exactly like windows, so it's not a matter of learning how to use it. The problem is that MS Office is the best office sweet available, hands down no contest. Star Office and Open office are ok, but not nearly as good.

By just being able to run MS Office makes linux more usable, but I think it hurts it more than helps because a better program wont get written.

Switching from windows to linux is like going from windows to mac, it's just linux has a hardcore techie reputation so it's more intimidating. I don't know why people think it's hard to get hardware working, it's not like there isn't hardware for windows that's a total pain to get working. There's a lot of hardware that's easier to get working in linux than windows.

[XWRed1]

Inertia.

Alot of people, even overclocker techie-guys, aren't really big on software, how it works, etc.

I think that they start with a clean slate with regards to computing, and software specifically. That slate gets Windows knowledge written to it, which slowly evolves along with the different iterations of Windows.

Depending on how the person is, they may just learn just enough to barely get along, or they may learn alot more.

But once they try to use something different, like Linux, or MacOS, alot of that knowledge doesn't apply. If they don't figure it out, they might not like using the alternatives at all, because they won't understand things as well, or they end up with a sort of nasty system.

If they hate MS alot, that may keep them going.

I guess its sort of like knowing quantum physics, but trying to scale it up to the things that general relativity is for.

It won't really work out, and you'll just end up either frustrated, or with a system thats not working too well, unless you switch to general relativity.

And then you could just keep an open/educated mind about how it all works. That is like knowing and using string theory.

There's a quote that I've seen a few times..
"BSD is for Unix lovers, Linux is for Microsoft haters"

Sometimes, it looks like thats true. But I use Linux, and I don't hate Microsoft at all. There's just a very vocal minority, and its sadenning.

Anyways, enough ranting. Like what PolyPill said. We need a real alternative of Microsoft Office, not just the ability to run it.

I think Wine might be a good crutch to help people with transition, but to many people are gunning to make it a standard feature, so wide in usage that if you run Linux, you'll need Wine to be productive.

That kind of future scares me.

[chaim79]

XWRed, your thoughts astound me.

Just a post to agree with you. I would like to add to that discription of how MS users start working with linux though, with one added catagory of MS to Linux transition. The one I used.

This catagory would be the querious person who started with dos (so is OK with command line) on into windows, and who wants to try Linux just to LEARN. Not to be a total replacement of windows but an addition to windows in his computer environment. This user will probably setup Linux on a second computer and just play with it for a while.

I've been playing with Linux for about 3 to 4 years, it's not a replacement for windows... yet. I hope to get rid of Windows at home within the next 2 years, here's hoping. :)

[XWRed1]

Yea, the DOS connection is interesting. Was helpful for me. Alot of people computing nowadays don't know how to use DOS, mostly because they started out after Win95.

Alot of people say things like "Linux is too hard to use, it will fail blah blah blah".

But, all those people who used DOS + Whatever for years, like my dad, for example, should be able to get along fine with something like Linux. Of course, if there's no real reason to switch, they shouldn't.

For the stuff my dad does, Linux would be the same, if not worse, than Win2k.

I don't want to see Linux get Windowified just to attract users. People should be concentrating on getting it to stand on its own merits.

[CrystalMethod]

The reason Linux will (I won't say never) become popular is that computers for the majority that buy them are like the owners of cars. "Put gas in it and it goes...". They don't want to know what a I.A.C. is, they just bring it into a garage and say "It's not running well, I need it fixed.", they throw some money at it and someone else fixes it. They pick up their car and drive away, not really caring what was done, but thier car is fixed and they can get around. Computers and the people that use them are the same way. You can bring your computer into a shop, say "It's not running well, I need it fixed...". They come back later, and everything is fine, they throw some cash down and leave in blissful ignorance. As for the whole Linux thing, it's niffty, my brother is an avid user, he only uses Windows ME to play counter-strike, other than that, he hates the Microsoft products. Linux from what I've seen is just a half way in between UNIX and Windows. The more add ons I see for Linux make it look more like Windows. As far as I know, I'm the only one around here running Solaris at home. It's all about what you use your OS for. You want quick and easy, go with Win, but be prepared to pay for the convience, and ease of use, and be prepared to have it hog system resources. You want more control of what goes on with your system, and a relatively easy to use interface, go with Linux. If you want total control of your system, nothing happens without your say-so, go back to Unix.

[XWRed1]

* all those "easy" user interfaces run on other Unices as well, its just that most of the people using them are Linux users, because guess what: they're coming over from Windows.

Heck, Sun even ships Gnome with Solaris now, don't they?

[David]

Gnome and KDE are easy to master (hey, I did it! lol)

[CrystalMethod]

Originally posted by XWRed1
* all those "easy" user interfaces run on other Unices as well, its just that most of the people using them are Linux users, because guess what: they're coming over from Windows.

Heck, Sun even ships Gnome with Solaris now, don't they? Yes they do, and it makes it look horribly like windows. The problem with Linux is that there's too many people developing it differently, everyone is trying to do their own thing with how they think it should work, and why there's so may different flavors of it. If they could all get together on it, it'd definately give the M$ Os'es some serious competition. But as it stands, the majority of people who use computers want the ease of use that Windows provides.

[XWRed1]

If they could all get together on it

That right there is pretty much the antithesis to what Linux *is*.

Its not planned. It evolves, with a little guidance.

You think the guy who hacks out a perl script to rip cds to mp3s, which only seems to work right on Linux, should be forced to be a slave for Gnome, or the kernel dev team, or something?

People are just doing what they want. There shouldn't be a compulsion to force them to do things for the greater good.

[CrystalMethod]

I completely agree, but it's also why it won't become popular amongst normal users.

[David]

The advantage, and disadvantage of LInux, is that if a programmer wants something, he/she can modify or add iyt to the OS without waiting for someone else to do it (whereas M$ has to do all the windows updates etc). This also means that games, until recently, were restricted to little annoying ones that you get bored of after an hour or so.

I believe that Linux is BETTER because everything isn't the same. It gives people CHOICE. If you don't like the Windoze GUI, tough luck. But in Linux there is KDE and also GNOMe, two well developed and easy to use GUIs as well as all the other minor ones. There is a GUI to siut most people - eg I like KDE but a lot of people prefer GNOME. This also continues with the distros. Newbies to Linux can use Mandrake, SuSE or Redhat quite easily. People who want more control and less fancy GUIS etc can use Slackware or Debian. Its all about choice.

[CrystalMethod]

I agree with this as well. I can't really say too much about Linux because I've never installed it. The closest I've come to Linux is Solaris. I installed it with the GUI just to see what it looked like, but wasn't overly impressed. It makes folder and file management a little bit faster, but I prefer a command prompt. So I re-installed without the GUI.

[UnseenMenace]

Originally posted by penguinfreak
I believe that Linux is BETTER because everything isn't the same. It gives people CHOICE. If you don't like the Windoze GUI, tough luck.

This is not technically true, what about Litestep, Darkstep and other shell replacements which all run on the Win OS.

[RoadWarrior]

Originally posted by XWRed1
Yea, the DOS connection is interesting. Was helpful for me. Alot of people computing nowadays don't know how to use DOS, mostly because they started out after Win95.

Alot of people say things like "Linux is too hard to use, it will fail blah blah blah".

But, all those people who used DOS + Whatever for years, like my dad, for example, should be able to get along fine with something like Linux. Of course, if there's no real reason to switch, they shouldn't.


I grew up with DOS, used some CP/M, had a little experience with VMS at uni, had a lot of experience with amigados and shell, and have had my hands on M/PM and distributed multiuser DOS systems and possibly some early 286 Unix clones like Xenix and Minix at various times in my education, though can't really say that I got enough time on those to qualify as "experience"....

So for myself, Linux doesn't seem too horrible at the command line, there is even a few things I find intuitive, I guess I see where it all came from. However, the gui bred and fed people know nothing of this, that call themselves computer experts on this experience and then complain about how nasty linux is, is more a reflection of thier ignorance than a fair evaluation of how linux is for ease of use. I know however that that ignorance is one of the problems facing linuxes acceptance as the "one true operating system" (minor amount of sarcasm implied) So products aiming at bridging tha gap and allowing a starting point for the emancipation of the wintel brainwashed masses can only be a good thing...... even if clever jerks like us think it's crappy and beneath us.

regards,

Road Warrior

[Spartacus51]

Originally posted by chaim79
XWRed, your thoughts astound me.

Just a post to agree with you. I would like to add to that discription of how MS users start working with linux though, with one added catagory of MS to Linux transition. The one I used.

This catagory would be the querious person who started with dos (so is OK with command line) on into windows, and who wants to try Linux just to LEARN. Not to be a total replacement of windows but an addition to windows in his computer environment. This user will probably setup Linux on a second computer and just play with it for a while.

I've been playing with Linux for about 3 to 4 years, it's not a replacement for windows... yet. I hope to get rid of Windows at home within the next 2 years, here's hoping. :)

I'm a windows person right now, but would like to learn linux for that very reason, to LEARN. I know DOS fairly well, probably one of the few 17 y/o with an understanding of DOS, but then again I started when I was 8, by 12 I was proficient in DOS, 13 proficient in windows, since then I've hardly looked back, but I do find myself still using dos and wishing for some of the flexibility of it. I hate having to make a shortcut or a batch file just to get in a switch for a program. This is where I want Linux.

I think Linux already offers an acceptable way around compatability issues with LILO. I want linux but will certainly leave Windows on. At one point I tried being a Microsoft hater, and while I still find most their products a little buggy they are the only ones making the programs at that level. I've never heard tale of a good comparison to PowerPoint, and I can't imagine a suite that works as well together. Although there is room for improvement in Office. The problem here is $$$, microsoft has the lions share of it, which means they can pay the most and hire the best programmers, which means they can produce the best product. Money talks. Always has, and realistically always will unless something major happens to unite mankind, I'm not holding my breath on that.

Yes linux is a nice, cheap, idealistic alternative.

It will remain that though, an alternative, it will not be a dominating force until intelligence, not money, rules the world.