Chip designers migrating away from MSI 975X

Hi all,

Thank you for the many informative and entertaining posts! Now, having cleared my "lurker mode bit", I'd really appreciate your inputs.

We’ve had it with the POS MSI 975X Platinum (PowerUp Edition) MB. We built a machine with this mobo a few months ago and have, for many reasons, decided to switch it out.

Based on the fastest performing machines and the hard work of the many users here, I’m looking at ASUS products for our needs.

BTW, PLEASE sanity check me if I've made any incorrect assumptions.

We use the machine for designing and simulating FPGAs/ICs. Speed is EVERYTHING to us as our compilations and simulations take several minutes to several hours each.

The system we’re changing consists of:
- A Gigabyte 3Daurora570 Enclosure
- The Gigabyte Galaxy II water cooling system
- X6800 2.93 GHz processor
- 2 Western Digital SATA drives configured as a RAID
- 2 ATI Radeon X1950 XTX PCI Express 512MB GDDR Video Cards
NOTE: TWO: One driving a 30” dell LCD, the other driving 2 20” Dell LCDs
This could be a factor due to the need to support the two PCIx-16
- 2 x Corsair Twin 2X2048-8500C5 2GB PC2-8500
- A BFG 1000W supply
- We also have a no-name DVD r/w drive and floppy in the unit
- The dreaded MSI 975X mobo with its terrible BIOS and support
Stable at 3.6 GHz when it wasn't reporting BIOS checksums that is... ug!

The question I have for the group is: Given the preceding equipment list and our desire to crank the speed of this thing through the roof, which mobo would be best for our needs?

I know the group gets the "best mobo" a lot. I appreciate you considering our situation.


Ed McCauley

hmm I take it you won't be wanting to run crossfire, just the ability to run the two cards
I would say a motherboard using the nVidia 680i chipset SLi but I'm not exactly sure how that would react to running 2x ATi cards. I mean it has the x2 x16 pci-e lanes but it was designed to run x2 nVidia graphics cards, I assume it would work perfectly fine aslong as you didn't try to run crossfire on it.

The "Asus Striker Exteme NF680i SLi" is the motherboard at the very top of the line, though it is quite overpriced.

FpgaGuy said:

The system we’re changing consists of:
- A Gigabyte 3Daurora570 Enclosure
- The Gigabyte Galaxy II water cooling system
- X6800 2.93 GHz processor
- 2 Western Digital SATA drives configured as a RAID
- 2 ATI Radeon X1950 XTX PCI Express 512MB GDDR Video Cards
NOTE: TWO: One driving a 30” dell LCD, the other driving 2 20” Dell LCDs
This could be a factor due to the need to support the two PCIx-16
- 2 x Corsair Twin 2X2048-8500C5 2GB PC2-8500
- A BFG 1000W supply
- We also have a no-name DVD r/w drive and floppy in the unit
- The dreaded MSI 975X mobo with its terrible BIOS and support
Stable at 3.6 GHz when it wasn't reporting BIOS checksums that is... ug!

The question I have for the group is: Given the preceding equipment list and our desire to crank the speed of this thing through the roof, which mobo would be best for our needs?

Click to expand...

Hello mate and welcome to the forums!

These are my suggestions:

1. I'd suggest a true 64-bit *nix (like Gentoo) or BSD, which you have bootstrapped and compiled from scratch as your software base.
2. Since you are doing computation heavy work, you may be better served by adopting an SMP-server, Kentsfield (Quad core Intel QXxxx) based setup. If not go with the 975X based ASUS Workstation Pro lineup. The 680i is a new chipset whereas the 975X is just as good and is rock solid stable.
3. I'm not sure why you need High-end Crossfire/SLI, but if you do need GPU power, try the x1950xtx series or the 8800GTX series (you already have it in your list).
4. Forget the water-cooling and don't even think about overclocking a work-rig. I know this is OCForums, but we also offer correct advice.
5. Go with SCSI if you do opt for a server. Do not go with RAID 0. I would recommend RAID 1.
6. Drop the BFG PSU. I'm, not very comfortable recommending anything made by Topower at this point. My choices would be Zippy-Emacs, PC Power and Cooling, or the Etasis built Silverstone Zeus lineup. (A good 750 W minimum should suffice).

PS#

I'd remove your contact info from the post and ask questions in this thread.

Good luck!

S-N

Super Nade by the sounds of it he already has that system and just wants to change the motherboard because it was junk.

If the workload leans heavy on the hardrive(s) Raid10 would also be a very good option.

If your sticking it out with the X6800 and again heavy on storage a ICH8R southbridge motherboard would be a good selection.

I'm with Super Nade on this one, why are you overclocking the CPU on a work computer, its definatly not advisable and your work is likley slowed down by the storge system and the operating system used.

And the Silverstone power supplies to look for have a ZF at the end of the model number.

Guys thank you for your perspectives. Grayg, you’re right in that we’re just looking to upgrade the mobo however I do appreciate everyone's input.

Because you asked:

• We are planning on evaluating Win vs Linux on the box. Currently have win installed but with NO accessory programs short of a screen manager. This box is NOT on a public network and can’t “see” the internet. We’ve even deleted the browser(s) on the machine since they’re not used and the tools we use don’t require them.
• Regarding uP core, MOST unfortunately, our tools can’t take advantage of muli-core devices yet. So, the dual core is all we really can take advantage of. This does give us the ability to have one core doing the grunt work while the other is available for running solitaire, I mean system housekeeping!
• We use the two high end graphic cards to drive one 2560 x 1600 and two 1600 x 1200 displays. We knew it was a bit of an over kill but we weren’t overly focused on the extra few hundred dollars in this area instead knew (aka hoped) we would simple be leaping over any performance bottlenecks driving all those pixels. We are not, nor do we foresee any need to exploit the crossfire capabilities of the cards. Right now, I think the additional (rendering/gamer) GPU functionality is wasted allthough AutoCad MAY be able to use it.
• Drive-wise, this is very much a stand-alone workstation. Backed up daily and purely performance driven hence our choice of drive configuration
• Power supply… I was wondering about this. I honestly don’t have any tenure in the PS market. Is BFG and known 2nd/3rd tier player? We saw 1000W and thought… ok, that’d do it! Maybe we were overly capricious in this regard again having the room in the box and simply putting the biggest supply we ran across in the space. We paid $300 from www.zipzoomfly.com. Should we really trash this component?
  
• I TOTALLY appreciate the comments about over clocking a “work” computer. Naturally we have several stock workstations but we’re exploring a kick-*** platform for specific activities. As is the case now, if the platform goes down, we retreat to the standard menu offerings. Again, great advice.
  
• FYI, since Greenmaji raised a valid point, task-wise, once our simulations kick in, we’re not going to disk much at all. Generally, there can be .25 to 1.5 GB associated with our designs so the fast drives do help but time to and from disk are in the low single digit percentage of our overall execution times.

But back to our mobo….

When it comes the these boards, they all seem to be within 5-10% of each other so performance-wise... I’ll call them comparable. What we’ve found with MSI is a general lack of product support for known issues and a user community up in arms. Knowns issues seem to run the gamut from FSB speed issues right down to reset/restart problems. Honestly, I don’t have time for this and I’m looking for a more stable and supportive vendor. Again, everyone here seems to be raving about the ASIUS P5B and P5W DH. The robust and active user base has contributed significantly to making them my starting point. How do these boards compare to the NF680i Grayg? The ASUS website doesn’t do a great job positioning their products relative to each other. Cost-wise, this is for work so the time to select, install, and support the board will likely far outweigh its purchase price… certainly any differential.

I hope my long-winded answers aren’t too burdensome. Again, THANK YOU for your advice and perspective.

P.S. I should add... I/we're not commited to an ASUS solution. If there are other vendors that have more appropriate products for our needs I/we'd love to get your feedback. I think we rushed into a decision last time and we've more than paid the price in time. This time around, I'm trying to invest more up front and get a better long-term (9-18 month in our world) solution in place.

I'll touch upon the PSU and I'll get back to the other aspects later tonight after work.

BFG units are OEM'ed by Topower. While these are good units for an average gaming system (I mean units well served by a good 600W PSU), I would not put thousands of $'s worth of hardware on this particular OEM.

My gripe is with the inconsistantcy in the Topower product line. Unfortunately, a majority of their units are not the best in the voltage regulation department. Hardware secrets did disassemble a Tagan 1.1 kW (OEM Topower) unit and found the build and design paradigms employed were unsatisfactory (undersized power transistors and primary side components etc).

In short, Topower have done nothing to change my opinion in their favor.
With an ultra-high end system as your's, why entertain even a shadow of doubt?

Zippy, Etasis and PCP&C are among the best units you can buy today with ease. Ultra, among others are coming out with a high wattage monster, OEM'ed by Andyson (I think?) which would give you more choices, but as of now, the three I mentioned are safe bets.

For your MB, go with ASUS. I would pick the ASUS WS-Pro or the P5B/ P5W-DH Deluxe. 680i is still a bit too raw for me to recommend in your specific case.

This motherboard..
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MB...2a9b24d493f2fcf46ddd079d03e0f722b5ddabf9f2d2b

The only problem with this motherboard is if you desided to go phase change cooling for this machine the Vcore is limited to 1.7.. but thats more then enough for the best water cooling you could build.

Thank you all for your time and consideration. It's really helped.

The P5W64 WS Pro sure seems like it fits the bill! I'll go over its details once again before we place our order this afternoon. Which is, btw, looking like this:

HDD
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB SATA II 7200RPM /16MB Buffer www.zipzoomfly.com $88.00
www.ewiz.com $75.19

Motherboard
Asus P5W64 WS Professional
www.zipzoomfly.com $299.00
www.ewiz.com $280.00

Power Supply
SilverStone SST-ST85ZF 850 W
www.tigerdirect.com $289.99
www.zipzoomfly.com $269.99

SATA Optical Drive
Lite-On 16x LH-16A7S
www.tigerdirect.com $49.99
www.zipzoomfly.com $44.99


FWIW, I Found that Tiger seems to be a bit more $$$ than zipzoom fly, which is slightly higher than ewiz.


Ed McCauley

you should try looking at newegg.com

If you are planning for speed, WD Raptors are the fastest non-SCSI drives available for your money.

A good alternative PSU (expensive and an older but proven design. Not highly efficient, but it is fail proof.) :
http://store.myaopen.com/psl6850p.html

greenmaji said:

This motherboard..
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MB...2a9b24d493f2fcf46ddd079d03e0f722b5ddabf9f2d2b

The only problem with this motherboard is if you desided to go phase change cooling for this machine the Vcore is limited to 1.7.. but thats more then enough for the best water cooling you could build.

Click to expand...

LOL i love it! you go from chastising him for overclocking a work computer, to pointing out the "low" vcore, should he ever decide to run phase!

by the way if you are running 1.5gb sized sims it would seem that memory is a big thing for you. I know a lot of people here run 2gb and they dont load HUGE files either. I would perhaps look into another 2gb of ram if you go 64 bit. if not maybe only 1 more gig.

look into the seagate 7200.10 drives as well...

250gb: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148142

320gb: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140


these are the fastest 7200RPM drives out, and all the customers I've built machines for with these HDD's rave about how fast it is for a single drive... two in RAID 0 = pure sex


and another small thing... i've never been a true fan of lite-on drives... here's a nice samsung one (only opticals that I'll ever buy) that newegg just got in: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151141


my friend has had a few weird issues with his p5w64-ws pro, but i've had zero problems with my p5wdg2-ws pro (though PCI-E slot spacing does lack a bit on this board compared to the p5w64)

hUMANbEATbOX said:

LOL i love it! you go from chastising him for overclocking a work computer, to pointing out the "low" vcore, should he ever decide to run phase!

Click to expand...

He explained that the machine had two controll machines and that overclocking was the intention of the lab for this single machine.

greenmaji said:

He explained that the machine had two controll machines and that overclocking was the intention of the lab for this single machine.

Click to expand...

So we should spec him out a top shelf Benching rig, only the benchies he is running will be accomplishing something.

Minor update for everyone…

The mobo, a 3rd drive that’ll hold the OS(s) (because it’s a PAIN installing/booting Linux from a RAID), and SATA CD/DVD-R/W drive have all been installed and we’re configuring the BIOS today.

What a (positive) difference compared to MSI. Hey, when you push the reset button, low and behold, the processor actually resets!

I appreciate the fast drive recommendations. That was never really a HIGH priority. We already purchased reasonably fast units at a pretty good price. Now have 750 (reasonably fast including a 16MB buffer on each drive) GB for under $300? Not so bad eh?

Someone else mentioned memory. We have 4GB installed consisting of 2 x Corsair Twin 2X2048-8500C5 2GB PC2-8500. Hope to get 'em cranking pretty good! This IS an area of performance we're focused on.

Everyone, thank you all for your time, help, and perspectives.

I’ll “file” a final report when we’re all done. Might try to forward on a pic of our monitor set up. Even I think its cool!

Ed McCauley

Could you please refrain from posting your URL at the bottom of every post. We don't allow external links in sigs for the same reason - it's considered advertising here.

You Beat me to it!

David,

Sorry about that. I didn't realize.

Anyway, I went back to edit them out of my previous posts and it looks like you beat me to it. Again, my appologies.

BTW, are you sure about Diet Coke?

-Ed

FpgaGuy said:

BTW, are you sure about Diet Coke?

-Ed

Click to expand...

I'm sure.

I've tried.