So far, uncharted Territory Shuttle - SN27P2

Hey guys,
I purchased the Shuttle SN27P2 System a few months ago. Reason being was b/c I was tired of lugging my old Full ATX tower Back and fourth from LAN parties, and College to Home. Of course, when I bought the Shuttle I knew I would be expecting high temps and virtually no overclockability, but running temps of 48 to 57 degrees Celcius on Idle/Games for the Processor and 80 to 88 degrees Celcius for the Motherboard Chipset is ridiculous (Melt your face off kind of rediculous: hence => ). If not because of the EXTREMELY loud noise of the fans, just to kick it down a few degrees, or the insane temps, I would like to get this sucker running at reasonable stability; so that I don't fear for the worst one day when my shuttle melts through my desk, into the floor, travels hundreds of miles below the surface,into the center core of the earth, and eventually kills us all from the core being dissrupted and setting every volcano off in the world...Ok then.

My Array Consist Of:
3 Segate SATA II HD's (Different sizes; you get picture)
AMD 64 X2 Dual Core Processor +4200
2 GiG'z of Corsair Ram
Saphire Radeon X1900 Series (which takes up 2 Slots: the only 2 for that matter)
NEC DVD/RW Drive
SN27P2 Power Supply (Dunno the Wattage)

Amazingly, the small power supply can power such an demanding array of crap. Im probably gonna have to chunk it for clearance purposes and an external power source with more juice.

I've been reading quite a bit about Water Cooling lately, and have concluded that there is not one specticle of good information on how to even start WC'ing in a Shuttle rig. I have quite a bit of experience on building computer as well as modding consoles interally and externally. Never done WC'ing though. I am willing to mount several pieces of the WC'ing part on the outside of the rig and possibly cutting some holes in the case itself. My price range is between 120 to 190 dollars.

I also read the basics to water cooling guide that you guys have on the forums here, which is a bit outdated btw , and it says never to buy WC'ing kits. I have also read on these forums, many recommendations in Swiftech products. Lucky me, I found a cooling kit for micro atx's! The H20-80 Micro kit, every part in this kit I have heard good things about and was wondering of I could actually add some more pieces in there from Swiftech; such as the MCW 30 (Chipset Cooler- A BIG must in my scenario) and the MCW60 VGA Water Block. Just wondering of the advice given in the "Basics to WC'ing" runs valid in my situation?

Also, since I have no clue what I am doing and you guys are my Sepai's in the world of WC'ing, what the heck do I do!? Is the external PS a good idea? Could adding to many parts to the WC'ing arrray that I will have up be bad for flow or pressure since the water isn't going to be traveling that fair b/c it's micro atx? I also read in the guide that 80 mm radiators are crapy, but that was 2 years ago!? Is two radiators ideal and if so, should they be 120mm's instead of 80 mm's; probably 80's because of the lack of mountage space.?

Now, If you notice on the back of the SN27P2;
http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q3/shuttle-sn27p2/index.x?pg=2
there is room for a radiator (a small one), which would be an ideal spot on a normal micro atx formfactor.

and on and on and on...

So you guys see my predicument and I await you comments containing vast knowledge on my situation.

Thanks,
Omega740

Well, that's quite a challenge!

First off, I don't think a 2x120mm rad is going to work very well with that case but the GTX is pretty cool running and with the right blocks you should be OK. A single 120mm is usually enough for a simple rig if it's not OC'ed very much. To reproduce a 1x120mm we'll need ~3x 80mm rads. A single 80mm can go outside the existing CPU fan hole and a 2x80mm can ride in back above the PSU (I think). It's hard to tell how big those fans are back there.

So:
- A DDC+ (18W) pump - small and quiet but powerful and very reliable
- An Apogee for a low restriction CPU block
- An MCW60 or Maze5 GPU block, both low restriction and good blocks (I use the MCW60 myself)
- MCW30 chipset block
- An MCR80 Quiet Power radiator for the CPU opening - it has built-in 3/8" barbs to reduce space requirements. You can route into it just before the CPU block to save on tubing runs - order in a loop doesn't really matter too much.
- The back radiator is a toss-up. If you can fab a shroud using the MCB120 then get a Black Ice Pro 120 radiator. (Again it's hard to tell sizes by the pics I've found) If that won't work then a 2x80mm rad should work - something like the Black Ice Micro
- Definitely stick with 3/8" tubing - you really don't have room for anything else and it should work well with that pump
- You'll need some type of fill-port or res. For your set-up a cheap bay res may be the best solution BUT I don't know how well they seal - a critical point for a LAN unit. A fillport seals well (and it's cheaper) but won't have much storage space for water - you'll have to check it often.


That's really pushing a $200 budget but you might find some good deals in the Classified section or eBay. You could also try a cheaper pump but be very careful what you choose. I can't help you out there, I stick with Swiftech.

If you decide on a different GPU block don't forget the video RAMsinks! Most MCW60s are kits which include copper RAMsinks ...

A single 80mm can go outside the existing CPU fan hole and a 2x80mm can ride in back above the PSU (I think). It's hard to tell how big those fans are back there.

Click to expand...

My apolizligies for not expalining the back fan sizes. I believe they are 2 60mm fans that run directly above the PS for ventilation. This is why I am contemplating removing the PS because of the lack of space for radiators to mounted in the back. Btw the PS fan is an 80mm space in the back of the shuttle.

- A DDC+ (18W) pump - small and quiet but powerful and very reliable

Click to expand...

Sorry for my n00bness im not sure what that is.

The back radiator is a toss-up. If you can fab a shroud using the MCB120 then get a Black Ice Pro 120 radiator. (Again it's hard to tell sizes by the pics I've found) If that won't work then a 2x80mm rad should work - something like the Black Ice Micro

Click to expand...

Yea your right about the toss-up portion of this. Unfortionatly the MCB120 does not look like a good option for me b/c if you look at the way it is slanted the radiator in the back connected to it would be covering my video card or all of my motherboard doodads such as usb ports and the CMOS reset button in the lower end.

Probably gonnna route the tube out of the back of PCI slot and to the top of the case where the radiator would be mounted? iono. But my problem with this theory is there is going to be a block stiking out on the video card and may interfear w/ clearance to the other slot. Or I can use the block from the Video Card to routed outside to the radiator and drill a hole in the case to go back in to some other part. iono. ill take some picks and see if I can show you guys a good routing table for suggestions.

Also I still don't know if the external PS is a good idea; what do you guys think?

2x60mm should be OK for a 2x80mm rad - you'll have to do some drilling to mount it but it can go above the top slightly and out to the right(?) side (away from the slots).


DDC+/MCP355


I think you can do it w/out the external PSU. How much of an OC are you looking for here ...?

My system is already sufficient enough already, if anything I would like to get those God-Forasaken temps down though with some noise reduction.

Shuttle says it's a SilentX 400W. That should be sufficient though you are pushing it with 3 HDDs.

With the 2x80mm on the back and a 1x80mm outside the existing CPU fan grill you should have enough cooling to get decent temps out of it. They'll be higher than normal WC but much better than what you have now. You may need 90° elbows for the NB cooler - I couldn't see it with the drive cages in there - and maybe for the GPU block as well but the MCP355 can handle that w/out a problem. You might be able to mount the MCW60 on your GPU so it's facing toward the slots - it would help w/routing.


If you really want to go all out you can get an MCR220 2x120mm rad and mount it outside on top. May as well mount the pump there as well and I'd still recommend the MCP355 and 3/8" tubing. Get some sheet metal and bend a nice cover over it all. Or get one of those full side-grill covers for your shuttle (saw it on the Shuttle website) and mount it above your existing one to hide the rad and fans ...

If you really want to go all out you can get an MCR220 2x120mm rad and mount it outside on top. May as well mount the pump there as well and I'd still recommend the MCP355 and 3/8" tubing. Get some sheet metal and bend a nice cover over it all. Or get one of those full side-grill covers for your shuttle (saw it on the Shuttle website) and mount it above your existing one to hide the rad and fans ...

Click to expand...

Now I'm trying to find a good point of entry for the outside tubes that are going to go into the radiator on top; if that is where I choose the spot. I would figure haveing a tube come out of the PCI slot from the GPU into the radiator and then going into the pump which then would go back into the case to the rest of the crap.

Excuse my n00bness yet again but, doesn't the radiator need to vent into open air. If I put a cover on it w/ the pump, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the radiator? Well let me think about this, if the radiator has a side on it which needs to vent in a certain direction, I would assume the side with the swigly lines on it; then what about the nozzles that connect the water tubes into raditor? I should just cut holes in top for tubes to go back into the case? like this? http://www.overclockers.com/tips1211/.

Don't think that would work to well for me considering that the whole top shell of the case comes off.

Im kinda lost onto how the radiator mounted at the top will be positioned, or for that matter, work.?

btw quiet, thanks alot for you help and putting up with my ignorance on the matter.

Yes, the rad needs to vent to open air. I was looking at this when I was talking about the extra cover. I think if you attached the rad, pump, and res to it you could screw it (using thumb-screws if you want) to the sides of your main case. The lower edge of the extra cover would only overlap the sides of your case maybe an inch at the top. That way the external hardware could be easily removed from the top of your case and allow you access. The rad would be mounted on it's side allowing plenty of air to flow through it.

I like the idea of going though the extra PCI slot. The loop order could be res>pump>rad>(PCI slot)>CPU>NB>GPU>(PCI slot)>res. You might be able to turn the GPU block facing the back of the case which would help routing ...