Optical Mouse LED swap!

[stompah]

I have a Logitech Optical mouse (its of teh 2x variety) with a red LED. I would like to swap it to a blue LED. I have heard that this may decrease performance a bit... but its ok with me.

What type of LED is needed and I need disassembly instructions for the mouse. I never have taken any mouse apart and dont wanna sacrifice a $30 mouse finding out on my own.

Thank you.

[WyrmMaster]

Well it looks to me like you just take the one screw out and it should come right apart. Did you say you have oen of the ones with two LED's. If so it would look sweet with one blue one and one red one.

[PsYko420]

That is such a killer idea. Keep us posted when you get this done i'd like to see how it works!

[stompah]

Ok, One screw and one LED... easy enough? Now just have to hit RadShack for the LED and new soldering iron... I just hope the LED is compatible with the mouse's voltage.

[Krome]

how did it go? I wanta a blue LED in my mouse now..

[Christoph]

I suspect that it won't go well. I just tried the exact same thing except with a MS mouse and an IR LED (hoping for an invisible mod), but it didn't work (I put the old LED back and it works fine.)
If you haven't gone yet, do some research and find out the voltage/amperage/brightness/whatever of the LED you're going to replace.
Otherwise you might be like me; stuck with a useless weak IR LED.
BTW, as long as you don't get really mad and are kinda careful, you won't kill your mouse taking it apart. As for modding, play with the soldering iron first if you're not familiar in how to use it. Take an old circuit board with a bunch of stuff on it and see what it's like to remove it and put it back on again. I flubbed (no offense meant to Phlubb) and had to do some very unpleasant mods to make it work again.
Good luck, and may the yatta be with you.

[Über~PhLuBB]

Originally posted by IdeaMagnate
I suspect that it won't go well. I just tried the exact same thing except with a MS mouse and an IR LED (hoping for an invisible mod), but it didn't work (I put the old LED back and it works fine.)
If you haven't gone yet, do some research and find out the voltage/amperage/brightness/whatever of the LED you're going to replace.
Otherwise you might be like me; stuck with a useless weak IR LED.
BTW, as long as you don't get really mad and are kinda careful, you won't kill your mouse taking it apart. As for modding, play with the soldering iron first if you're not familiar in how to use it. Take an old circuit board with a bunch of stuff on it and see what it's like to remove it and put it back on again. I flubbed (no offense meant to Phlubb) and had to do some very unpleasant mods to make it work again.
Good luck, and may the yatta be with you.

Hehe, no offense taken. That's not even how I got my name, I just kinda... made it up. =)

I plan to mod my mouse too, and my biggest regret would be buying a $3 LED that was the wrong amperage/voltage, and not being able to return it because the package is open and it has chunks of solder on it.

I'd also like to find out for certain what the correct voltage and amperes I would need to find. Any suggestions how I might do that? I don't have a miltimeter, so I can't just remove the old LED and test it.

[Christoph]

I've tried to look for the mouse's specs, but it'll require a bit more searching than I initially though. I'm thinking about sending an email to MS, but I doubt that I'd get a response. I'll make sure to post back here if I ever figure it out.

[Christoph]

That didn't take long.

LED Specs:

Specs
Forward voltage: 3.7 typ. 4.5 max
Forward Current: 20mA typ. 30mA
Brightness: 2600mcd
Viewing angle (deg): 30
Lens Color Clear
LED Size 5mm


I'm pretty sure that they're the right ones. Here (http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34940&highlight=mouse+LED) is where they came from. Love that search engine! :D

Edit: more from me! <groan from other members> Here (http://www.hosfelt.com/Leds/led1.htm)'s a site where you can get 6000 mcd blue LEDs. Only US$5 a pop. They're designed to run at a lower voltage than the default LED, but I think that they might just work. With that kind of intensity, you'd be able to make up for any insensitivity in the decector.

Here are some IR LEDs (http://www.rentron.com/Products/Electronic-Components.htm). I'm not sure if it's the best deal, but I think I'm going the way of the blue LED mod.

[stompah]

IdeaMagnate, TY for the info. I will try to make a trip to Radio Shack tommorrow.


As for my soldering skillz... well its been a while... I was decent at it once.

[Oni]

Originally posted by IdeaMagnate
Here (http://www.hosfelt.com/Leds/led1.htm)'s a site where you can get 6000 mcd blue LEDs.

Holy Jesus inna Pita!! You could light a ROOM with that!! ^^

[Christoph]

I take it you didn't notice their 18,000-36,000 mcd orange LEDs. I'm thinking of getting one of those to light up my mobo so I can see what I'm doing.

[Slain]

You could do some good case lighting with that blue LED. It would be dirt cheap too, all you would need is a 100-125 ohm resistor in series with the LED to drop your 5V power supply to 2.5-3V.

Blue LED $4.99
125 ohm resistor 59 cents (max)
Total $5 and some soldering

now how much does a blue neon kit cost? :D

[stompah]

Ok guys update time!


Well the local electronics store doesnt have powerful enough LEDs... Radio Shack neither. My freind's LEDs arent bright enough.

There is a place about 30 minutes from Boston taht was said to have bright LEDs. I drive a taxi and as luck would have it I got a fare that drove me right by the place!


I could only find one type of blue LED and it didnt tell me the output... so I will mod the mouse hoping it works sometime this weekend.

[Christoph]

I'd recommend that you not bother with stores when looking for something specific like a 6000 mcd blue LED. It's not fun to pay shipping for something so small, but you know exactly what you're getting, and it's easier than going to a bunch of stores in search of a rare component.

[stompah]

Yeah that would be cool and alll but business is so far down all 3 CCs dont work at the moment...

I was told taht this store would have what Iw as looking for :-(

[Diggrr]

Hey Idea magnate, If you got a netcam, put the IR diode into the front of that! Most netcams will see IR, and it'll brighten up those darker pics. You can test it first with a battery of the correct voltage. Heck, you might even find the correct voltage inside the cam for the supply voltage, or add a resistor. USB=5volts.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Diggrr
Hey Idea magnate, If you got a netcam, put the IR diode into the front of that! Most netcams will see IR, and it'll brighten up those darker pics. You can test it first with a battery of the correct voltage. Heck, you might even find the correct voltage inside the cam for the supply voltage, or add a resistor. USB=5volts.

Very interesting idea! I don't have a webcam, since the picture quality is usually worth the US$40 you pay for the camera. I've got a digital camera, but I doubt that it would pick up IR.
I hope someone with a webcam tries this. The only problems I could think of would be that it could mess with your eyes (keep 'em closed) and that you'd have to find a powerful IR LED, which is a little wierd because they're not rated in mcd but mw (milliwatts, not megawatts in most cases).

[Christoph]

Bumparoo!

Also, it looks like Hosfelt totally sucks for service. I ordered on the 29th, they charged my card on the 3rd (without telling my that shipping was more than the cost of the LED) and the haven't sent me anything about whether the LED's been shipped or not.
FIND ANOTHE SOURCE for blue LEDs. It won't necessarily be easy, but it'll be easier than waiting two weeks for Snotsfelt to ship.
BTW, yes I did look over at resellerratings, but I generally ignore resellers with very few reviews.

[Captain Slug]

Again, I HIGHLY recommend AllElectronics.com (http://www.allelectronics.com) :rolleyes:

I've ordered hundreds of dollars worth of stuff from them (back when I was building a Battlebot) and it's always arrived promptly. Plus they have accurate descriptions.

As for LED swapping I tried it and it seems that any color works except for Green.
It's not very hard to do and works fine as long as you don't have a flat white mouse pad. I switched back to RED because I'm using a micro-textured translucent mouse pad. It gives excellent performance but unfortunately it was eating all the Light from the all LEDs I tried, EXCEPT for RED.:eh?:

It's really not that hard to do and I've done it a couple times to different models. Out of All the mice I've modded the IOGEAR 4D Optical was the easiest to swap.

One word of caution (that'll save you alot of hassle), is that BEFORE you remove the previous LED, you should use a marker to draw in the PCB to indicate which way the poles inside the original LED are facing. That way when you swap you don't accidentally put the new one in backwards.

Secondly make sure you trim the replacement LEDs lead so it's the same as the original one, that way it will bend into the holder perfectly.

I'm pretty sure Tweak3d.net had a tutorial on doing this but it's really not that hard to do.;)

[PYROMANIAC]

radio shack sells those type LED's...

[Tbird man]

anyone know where you can get green LEDs

[PYROMANIAC]

radio shack carries all sorts of LED's...here there is a place called 'EPO' and they have just about everything from waffer board to whole systems...and the little things like resistors tons of LED's and an aisle dedicated to fans:D

[ButcherUK]

Originally posted by Tbird man
anyone know where you can get green LEDs

Not in your area ;)
I went to buy a blue LED for my mouse but instead of a 3000mcd blue I ended up with a 10000mcd green. It's very bright and works pefectly in my mouse and is actually a nice green (not too yellow).
Pics, these look a little bluer than it actually is.
http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~rec108/mouse1.jpg
http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~rec108/mouse2.jpg

[Christoph]

Cool! I just got my blue LED mod done, and it's quite sexy if I do say so myself. The bad part is that I can only see it when it's really dark or when I lift the mouse up.

[zangler]

what about the ms mice with the led shining out the back...it there a way to change that one to blue or something, and leave the main led the same?

[Christoph]

Originally posted by zangler
what about the ms mice with the led shining out the back...it there a way to change that one to blue or something, and leave the main led the same?
I did that, but it doesn't shine through the red plastic. (I knew that it would happen that way and I was too lazy to put in a resistor. I wanted a sort of stealth mouse mod that didn't emit much noticeable light.)

[kd7aze]

A thought on why an IR LED would not work.

The optical mouse works by using a small digital camera to take a snapshot of your desktop. It is likely that it is best suited to work in the red spectrum (making a red LED [or white, which contains red] the best choice for a light source). Few cameras are designed to read IR light sources (at least few which are inexpensive enough to put into a mouse), and as such the camera in the mouse can't "see" the desktop with a IR LED lighting the way.

Now if you could find a way to tweak or replace the camera in the mouse to see IR light, that invisible mod isn't that far away! :cool:

Kid

[Christoph]

Originally posted by kd7aze
A thought on why an IR LED would not work.

The optical mouse works by using a small digital camera to take a snapshot of your desktop. It is likely that it is best suited to work in the red spectrum (making a red LED [or white, which contains red] the best choice for a light source). Few cameras are designed to read IR light sources (at least few which are inexpensive enough to put into a mouse), and as such the camera in the mouse can't "see" the desktop with a IR LED lighting the way.

Now if you could find a way to tweak or replace the camera in the mouse to see IR light, that invisible mod isn't that far away! :cool:

Kid

I know that a 6000 mcd blue LED works because I'm using one right now, and I know that the "camera" (for lack of a better word) is meant to sense red light.
Blue light has a wavelength of about 475 nm, red light has a wavelength of about 700 mn and infared is about 760 nm and higher. Since the camera can sense light that's 225 nm shorter than the recommended, I'd guess that it would have no problem sensing light that's 100 nm longer than the intended wavelength.
Basically, if it reads a shorter wavelength of light, why can't it read a longer wavelength too?

BTW, this isn't a typical digital camera. I'd guess that it's made with the cheapest possible materials and methods that will still read a red LED. Distinguishing between different frequencies is expensive, and they probably didn't bother with it. You only need to detect differences in shading to tell if the mouse is moving or not.

[kd7aze]

Originally posted by IdeaMagnate
Blue light has a wavelength of about 475 nm, red light has a wavelength of about 700 mn and infared is about 760 nm and higher. Since the camera can sense light that's 225 nm shorter than the recommended, I'd guess that it would have no problem sensing light that's 100 nm longer than the intended wavelength.
Basically, if it reads a shorter wavelength of light, why can't it read a longer wavelength too?

I can't disagree with you. Though, that additional 60nm makes quite a bit of difference, and generally requires special receptors. And I certainly can't disagree with you about the quality of said receptors :rolleyes:

Kid

EDIT: Perhaps the difference is that we're sensing more heat than visible light at that frequency. Not a very valid idea, I'll admit, but possible. Visible being a relative term when it comes to sensors of any kind. ;)

[Darrenct]

As soon as I read this thread, I was on my way to Radio Shack... I really wanted to find a green LED to match som molding on my case... but I wasn't that fortunate. However I did find a blue LED that fit the Specs.
So far on this thread I didn't see any detailed instructions on this so I thought I'd post them now

How to Swap the LED in a Logitec Optical Mouse:

LED needed:
3.7 - 4.5 Volts
20 - 30 mA
2600+ mcd(brightness)
5 mm (Size)

Pay attention to how the lens on the bottom is aligned. Remove Screw(s) and pull the top of the mouse off. Unplug the wires(single clip). Then pull the track wheel out. next remove the circuit board. There is a metal clip holding the LED and Lens in to place. Remove the clip. Note which way the led is mounted, It will not work if you reverse the wires. Unsolder the LED and push it out along with the plastic mounting assembly. Pull the LED from plastic assembly and replace with new one. Replace the Led plastic assembly and clip. Solder the new LED in to place. Reassemble everything. The lens on the bottom needs to be Aligned perfectly or it will not work. Reassemble everything and your set! My mouse still has the same performance, even with a blue LED. This is a way cool mod that is easy to do.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Darrenct
....

Pay attention to how the lens on the bottom is aligned. Remove Screw(s) and pull the top of the mouse off. Unplug the wires(single clip). Then pull the track wheel out. next remove the circuit board. There is a metal clip holding the LED and Lens in to place. Remove the clip. Note which way the led is mounted, It will not work if you reverse the wires. Unsolder the LED and push it out along with the plastic mounting assembly. Pull the LED from plastic assembly and replace with new one. Replace the Led plastic assembly and clip. Solder the new LED in to place. Reassemble everything. The lens on the bottom needs to be Aligned perfectly or it will not work. Reassemble everything and your set! My mouse still has the same performance, even with a blue LED. This is a way cool mod that is easy to do.

I disagree about that last part. In my experience, taking the LED out was easy, but putting another back in was a major headache.
If you're something of a newbie, I'd recommend cutting the legs of the LED off to get the LED out. Next solder a strand of copper wire to the back of the circuitboard at some point that's easy and that connects with the original LED contact points. Then thread the strands through the holes in the board and wrap them tightly around the legs of the replacement LED.
Now when you want to switch LEDs, you can do it in 5 minutes without any soldering, plus you avoided messing up the etching like I did.

It's a little hackish, but it'll work and nobody will ever have to know about it except you.

[Tbird man]

would 2400mcd work? if not i may have to go blue i am trying to go for a green/biohazard look

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Tbird man
would 2400mcd work? if not i may have to go blue i am trying to go for a green/biohazard look

It should work just fine. I'd get a little nervous around 2000 mcd.

[Darrenct]

I guess I forgot to mention that I am very skilled at the art of soldering, but with a little tinkering around, I think most people can get it to work. I didn't want to shorten the original LED unless I had to put it back in.

[Darrenct]

Tbird man, Someone posted earlier that he couldn't get a green LED to work, I don't see why it wouldn't because it is between Red and Blue on the spectrum... but you never know. Let me know if you get a green LED to work though. It would look awesome with my case

[ButcherUK]

My logitech works fine on a 10000mcd green. As for soldering, removing an LED and soldering in a new one is work of 1-2 minutes with a soldering iron and a desolderer, hardly something that's a big deal. Frankly if you can;t solder an LED into a pcb then you need to go practice your soldering more before trying mods. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh but it's not difficult. Also if you do it properly you can re-mod back to red if something else breaks in the mouse for RMA ;)

[Christoph]

Originally posted by ButcherUK
My logitech works fine on a 10000mcd green. As for soldering, removing an LED and soldering in a new one is work of 1-2 minutes with a soldering iron and a desolderer, hardly something that's a big deal. Frankly if you can;t solder an LED into a pcb then you need to go practice your soldering more before trying mods. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh but it's not difficult. Also if you do it properly you can re-mod back to red if something else breaks in the mouse for RMA ;)

Thanks for the honest but respectful assesment. Fortunately I've got some old stuff to practice on before my next mod.

[Darrenct]

So Where can I get a 10000 MCD Green LED anyway? I really want one to go with my case... I haven't had much luck finding bright green LEDs online.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Darrenct
So Where can I get a 10000 MCD Green LED anyway? I really want one to go with my case... I haven't had much luck finding bright green LEDs online.

Hosfelt (http://hosfelt.com/Leds/led1.htm) has the following LEDs;
3500 mcd 5mm green
2.5-2.8 VDC @20mA
28.5° angle, 574mn
part #25-366 ($.99)

10,000 mcd 5mm pure green LED
3.2 VDC @20mA
15° angle, 525 mn
part #25-377 ($3.99) <---- not shown online

Shipping sucks pricewise, but that's probably obvious. The only complaints I've got against them are that they didn't tell me what shipping would be (other than US$1 over cost) and they never sent me any shipping confirmation.

[ButcherUK]

Mine is the latter type, a 15° 10000mcd 525nm. It's a very nice shade of green and easily bright enough. Came from a local supplier in the UK for £2.99 (about $4.50).

[Darrenct]

Hey for all you guys that may want to change the LED in our mouse frequently, here's an idea for you. I took this clip off of a 60 mm CPU fan, I think a jumper clip may also work. But it makes future LED Swapping very easy.

[Captain Slug]

Speaking of IR mice...
Edimensional just released an IR tracking camera that follows reflective sticks\markers to move the mouse cursor.

See (http://www.edimensional.com/headtrack.html)

It wouldn't appreciate my silver case though... ;)

[Arkaine23]

My logitech mouse's led died, so I swapped it with a 2600mcd blue led. It lights up, but not very bright. And the mouse doesn't work at all. Guess I'll try a brighter led next, or maybe something else inside the mouse is broken.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by Arkaine23
My logitech mouse's led died, so I swapped it with a 2600mcd blue led. It lights up, but not very bright. And the mouse doesn't work at all. Guess I'll try a brighter led next, or maybe something else inside the mouse is broken.

I can highly recommend the 6000mcd blue LEDs from Hosfelt.com. Just make sure you buy enough to justify the shipping charges.