SMP Server Down Again?

[psyshack]

I come home from work and both my SMP boxes are looking for work today. My power meter is spinning. This is twice since I went SMP on rigs that THEY have FAILED!!!!

If this becomes a pattern I will have to look at other options.

psy

[jerseytomato]

arghhh. :bang head Can not upload here too.

[harlam357]

I looking for a server too... oh the price we pay to beta. :beer:

[Silver]

Got one here too with two more due in a couple of hours.

[Junebug]

I have two idled machines also. It seems if Stanford wants these back so fast (short deadlines) that they would be working a little harder to keep the servers working. I posted something to the FAH forum several hours ago with no response yet.

I assume I will get some snide remark from the moderators over there for stating that my machines are sitting idle.

Junebug

[pscout]

... or get another server serving them up

... just got home and checked mine ... 10 waiting :bang head

[hitbyaprkedcar7]

bah. mine are stuck to.

[psyshack]

I just shut down my smp native nix rig.

The polar ice caps are melting, cali is wanting to ban certin light bulbs and folding is wearing the bearing out in my old school power meter. :(

[Silver]

Listen to Hannity a couple hours each day (driving to work). Heard tell incandescents (sp) were next up for the chopping block in Cali. (Of course when I moved into my newly rebuilt house, found almost 5,000 w of incandescent which we changed out all of them. If every light in/on/attached to the house is turned on now we max out at just over 400w.)

[Macaholic]

I assume I will get some snide remark from the moderators over there for stating that my machines are sitting idle.

Yeah. Most likely. Perhaps they already PM'd the appropriate investigator that does most of the SMP work to let them know there was a problem when they first noticed about 4:45 PM CST. You would think they would try to do more. ;)

[Silver]

Strangely enough there does not even seem to be any semi-official response over in the forums. Kinda odd as usually there is at least one rude comment from someone in some form of authority.

[WarriorII]

400W for your house !?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

I just bought a 430W PS, wanna borrow it? :D

I get 2 SMP WU's done & I KILLED THE SERVER!!!!!!!!!!

IT'S ALL MY FAULT !!!!! :cry: :cry: :bang head

Hey Pete,

Here's a formula question for you.....

If a SMP box will put out 1100PPD, what does it average when the server is down 2/3 of the time?

Narf.
:-/

[pscout]

Warrior, thats a good question but one that i won't answer :eek:

Overall, the smp server has been down 3 times that i know of since i started smp folding. I sure hope this isn't a chronic problem tho ... since i now have over 2/3 of the farm on smp, I don't want to have to switch between wxp and linux very often ... it is a real pita to finish of wu's cleanly and switch over that many clients. Not as painlful on the ones running gpu+vmware but still not fun.

Hey ... the server is back up now :)

[WarriorII]

Hey ... the server is back up now :)

It sure is ! :D

Sweet ! thanks Pete!

You can fix just about anything. :thup:

[pscout]

It sure is ! :D

Sweet ! thanks Pete!

You can fix just about anything. :thup:

lol ... i wish ... I just hope i don't have to fix it everytime you send in 2 wu's tho :D

[WarriorII]

:D me too.

[Silver]

400W for your house !?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

I just bought a 430W PS, wanna borrow it? :D

I get 2 SMP WU's done & I KILLED THE SERVER!!!!!!!!!!

IT'S ALL MY FAULT !!!!! :cry: :cry: :bang head

Hey Pete,

Here's a formula question for you.....

If a SMP box will put out 1100PPD, what does it average when the server is down 2/3 of the time?

Narf.
:-/

That is for the lights only.

[ChasR]

Quit whining about the SMP server and look at the SMP folders ppd. Pete's pushing 19,000 ppd with 0 corporate boxes. More folks than ever are over over 10,000 ppd. Or you can get pizzed and switch to the uniprocessor client and drop back to 25% of your current ppd. THis may just be why the Mods are a bit short on the SMP server subject?
The SMP points are so good, I worry about marginalizing the unprocessor client. How would you feel about folding if you had 200 corporate boxes folding for years, millions of points, and got passed by someone with 20 or 30 boxen in two years?
Fold on!

[pscout]

Quit whining about the SMP server and look at the SMP folders ppd. Pete's pushing 19,000 ppd with 0 corporate boxes. More folks than ever are over over 10,000 ppd. Or you can get pizzed and switch to the uniprocessor client and drop back to 25% of your current ppd. THis may just be why the Mods are a bit short on the SMP server subject?
The SMP points are so good, I worry about marginalizing the unprocessor client. How would you feel about folding if you had 200 corporate boxes folding for years, millions of points, and got passed by someone with 20 or 30 boxen in two years?
Fold on!

Very fair comment and an observation that doesn't go unshared by me.
The bonus points definitely distort the normal ppd rankings.

Hopefully the points will be adjusted to reflect scientific value to encourage folders that have more discretionary control over deployment to fold with the clients that generate most value. And that this does not diminish the opportunity for corp folders to contribute significantly to the overall project.

Also, based on my observations, the server issues may well be tied into the regular hangs that my clients experience on downloads. After all this is still beta ... and like the gpu beta, smp seems to be uncovering issues in the servers as well as in the clients.

[WarriorII]

Fair point ChasR.

I'd just like to say, Yes, the points are nice. It's really about the science though. Atleast for me. If I can Fold out a WU in less time in SMP than in Winderz, I can complete more science in less time.

Isn't that better for everyone? and that is why I switched over.

The Windoz client is much easier to setup & use, but the linux version does the same job, faster. Doing more for the cause, in the same amount of time I spend paying the same electic bill.

-Satisfaction level goes up for the same cost.

but I understand what you're saying, and agree too, that if I am an IT nut & have several offices set up Folding away for years, I would be a bit peeved about some noob blowing by me in a short time.

Nothing you can do about it, just to realize, that person is also making a really good effort for the cause.

You may not like it, but that's just tuff. You use what you have available.
Put forth what effort you can. Do the best with what you have.

If I played football, and someone bigger than me, younger, came out & did better, am I going to change to rules to favor the older (me) players because this young guy is just better? Now that is screwed up.

I'm talking legal, honest people, not the cheaters.

[ChasR]

The question I have is does the SMP client really do more science than the uniprocessor client? It seems to me that two seperate threads using 99% of cpu cycles would get more work done than two parallel threads using 80% of the cpu clycles. The SMP client does get the individual WU completed faster than the uniprocessor client but is it worth a 300% bonus?

I'm a bit worried that we are getting out of balance with the points. Uniprocessor bonuses have been reduced and many think they should be lower still. I even proposed they be much lower to reduce the incentive to cheat. There's a poll on the FC Forum asking if people would fold big WUs with no bonus and about 70% say yes. I think you need a bonus to keep the points between clients closer.
At some point, I'm going to be thinking, is it worth the electricity to keep my socket A rigs running for 130 ppd when a C2D can get 10 times that on less electricity.

[WarriorII]

The question I have is does the SMP client really do more science than the uniprocessor client? It seems to me that two seperate threads using 99% of cpu cycles would get more work done than two parallel threads using 80% of the cpu clycles. The SMP client does get the individual WU completed faster than the uniprocessor client but is it worth a 300% bonus?

I'm a bit worried that we are getting out of balance with the points. Uniprocessor bonuses have been reduced and many think they should be lower still. I even proposed they be much lower to reduce the incentive to cheat. There's a poll on the FC Forum asking if people would fold big WUs with no bonus and about 70% say yes. I think you need a bonus to keep the points between clients closer.
At some point, I'm going to be thinking, is it worth the electricity to keep my socket A rigs running for 130 ppd when a C2D can get 10 times that on less electricity.

I totally agree with you. Why should a 300% bonus be given? I would be happy with normal points. Maybe only the "Beta Team" should get the bonus points. (ghettocomp for 1, that's all he folds I think)

Now, if you can only afford to upgrade so many PC's at a time, or 1-2, the GPU might be a way to go, IF that is all you can afford, but $300 -$500 is a heafty price tag for a GPU Folding box.

For that much I would be looking for a cheap "total" upgrade, for a Folding box. If I'm going to be using it for other things, I would also want to look at the % of useage time for my "other" activities. (games, music etc etc) and try to adjust accordingly, for my budget. Because I am not rich and don't have 100+ machines Folding under my user name.

I'm not trying to arguee the same point that you are, against you.

If a guy can't afford a GPU/Quad Core/Duo2 cpu/ yada, it would be in his best pocket book interest to do what he can, if it be SMP/Linux or a cheap AMD X2 and his last leagal copy of winderz. Or even Diskless / Headless.

Now the guy who has a Network Folding under his name, should he not assist the company in upgrading anyway? So his cost is...? Nill really. but yes, he should not get screwed because some young gun has 20 farm box's @ 300% bonus and is now overtaking what others have spent years accomplishing.

But all this is just my .02, and not backed by anyone or anthing outside the emptiness of my wallet.

[pscout]

The question I have is does the SMP client really do more science than the uniprocessor client? It seems to me that two seperate threads using 99% of cpu cycles would get more work done than two parallel threads using 80% of the cpu clycles. The SMP client does get the individual WU completed faster than the uniprocessor client but is it worth a 300% bonus?

I'm a bit worried that we are getting out of balance with the points. Uniprocessor bonuses have been reduced and many think they should be lower still. I even proposed they be much lower to reduce the incentive to cheat. There's a poll on the FC Forum asking if people would fold big WUs with no bonus and about 70% say yes. I think you need a bonus to keep the points between clients closer.
At some point, I'm going to be thinking, is it worth the electricity to keep my socket A rigs running for 130 ppd when a C2D can get 10 times that on less electricity.

I think only stanford can answer the question on scientific value of each of the client types and asociated projects ... but i do ask myself the same question. It has certainly been stated that SMP and gpu are needed to solve problems that could not be solved with the other client(s) but stanford needs to provide the weighting factor through the points system, unless they come up with some other mechanism. The current level of bonus points applied to encourage beta testing on smp seems to have achieved their goal of getting people over the linux hump. If too many cpu clients are lost by this, then it would seem a points correction should be made. And i would also expect the bonus to reduce when there is more stability in the client ...which i don't really think there is yet based on my experience.

But since we don't see all the data, we need to rely on Stanford to strike the right balance, and hopefully they can do it without having to worry too much about all the whining by some whenever a change is made. Presumably points adjustments will be made on new projects rather than existing ones.

As to whether it is worth it to run the older uniprocessor rigs ...here is this farmers view: I have put a self imposed limit to the number of rigs i run out of the house ... so the lower producing ones get turned off as i build newer, faster, more efficient ones. Electric costs are part of it but also space, my time to manage and maintain them, etc.
Also, my rate of change to the farm is based on my interest in using the new technology, which tends to drive how much time and $ i chose or am able to spend on it - it has been quite a bit of both lately for me :D

This balance is going to be somewhat different for everybody based on lots of factors, like are they trying to grow or stay 'stable', capital available to spend on it, vs time available to work on it, etc. similar to Warrior's points.

[Macaholic]

The current level of bonus points applied to encourage beta testing on smp seems to have achieved their goal of getting people over the linux hump.

It's not about getting over any Linux hump. Don't forget there is an SMP client for users of OS X that happens to be NATIVE. Yes, the Pande Group are the ones that know the amount of science gained from the various clients. These last four months have been quite exciting on the folding front. I'm glad to see it and glad to be part of all of the advances and changes. Each of us can go on for pages and pages about what the Pande Group should and should not be doing. They do listen, but as we have seen, as of late, not everyone will be happy with the outcome. I'll sit back and enjoy the ride. Have some fun. Help out in any way I can. Just step back and realize that we can get quite a skewed view since we enjoy the competition aspect. How about the donors that don't really care about the points, farming, and optimizing production? They just cruise along. Don't really post here or there and enjoy knowing they are doing something good based on the merits of the project. I'm not here to argue with anyone. Each donor brings up valid points about this aspect or that aspect. Some can be incorporated quite readily, some can't and likely never will be based on the complexity of the system. I'm glad to see lively debate and discussion, it means we're alive. Keeps things interesting. I'm sure we'll see many more changes, and I'm sure it will be for the better.

[ihrsetrdr]

Listen to Hannity a couple hours each day (driving to work). Heard tell incandescents (sp) were next up for the chopping block in Cali. (Of course when I moved into my newly rebuilt house, found almost 5,000 w of incandescent which we changed out all of them. If every light in/on/attached to the house is turned on now we max out at just over 400w.)

I'm very interested in LED lighting, which will be more available this coming year. For starters, i bought 2 LED night lights, with consume 1/10th the wattage of those rotten incandescent night lights(you know, the ones that burn out in about 2 months :eh?: ).

Just heard yesteday about funnelling Sunlight into commercial buildings with Fiber Optics...sounds very cool! :cool:

[dfonda]

but is it worth a 300% bonus?
Stop it Chasr!

I made red numbers for the first time today getting those bonuses....Please allow me some time in the (Red)sun.;)

[WarriorII]

Something came across my mind last night as I was pondering all this.

These 2605's seem to have slowed the SMP's down, just like the Patty_Melt syndrom that has come along that we so much enjoy. :-/

If Stanford makes a bunch of "Patty's" for SMP, and it slows all the WU's down to make it more fair, answer me this: Why did I switch from Windoz client to SMP then?

I'd rather crank out a bunch of faster WU worth less points than spend daaaays on end Folding 1 WU.

I know they ALL need to be done, but why did I bother w/an OS change if they're just gonna change the WU's to slow people down, instead of changing the 300% bonus's?

[this is just me blt<h'n]

EDIT: and I know they didn't just change the WU's to slow peeps down. It's work that needs done.

[pscout]

well , i will take all the 2605's nobody else wants - they finish a lot faster than patty melts and compared to running 2x3025's on the quad, these wu's give that rig alone 1000 ppd boost.

So if the bonus was 300% on the 3025/27's , the bonus on these must be 500% :D

/edit correction i will take them on any rig EXCEPT a 930 under vmware :eek: :eek: :eek:

[jws2346]

well , i will take all the 2605's nobody else wants - they finish a lot faster than patty melts and compared to running 2x3025's on the quad, these wu's give that rig alone 1000 ppd boost.

So if the bonus was 300% on the 3025/27's , the bonus on these must be 500% :D

What you'se talkin' about ? These p2605's must have a 1000% bonus (1760 sheesh)
:clap:

Edit: to the "off topic" police I apologize :attn:

[pscout]

What you'se talkin' about ? These p2605's must have a 1000% bonus (1760 sheesh)
:clap:

Edit: to the "off topic" police I apologize :attn:

jws ... i thought harlam had you trained already ... if you are going to appologize you have to do it twice ... the second one to appologize for appologizing :D (man i have a hord type typing that word :eek: )

[LandShark]

(i haven't get into these pointage/cheating discussion before, but I guess I'll give my 0.02 tho.....)

I honestly very happy to see F@H's current progress/direction, heading to much more diverse than ever!! GPU, SMP, PS3, CPU, etc. that's how and why we are having fun!!

however, I don't agree that some network admin got screwed by some young gun's home (HIGHPOWER!) farm tho!!

I'm a business man, and I'll think this way. let's say a basic C2D folder cost $500 (to make the number easy). 20 x C2D will cost that young guy a good $10,000 on equipment alone!! now, let's say a C2D will consume 200w (again, just easy round number), and your electricity cost about $0.09/kW, that would = $13/C2D to fold 24/7 for a month. now that's $260 that young gun is paying out from his pocket per month for the "cost of the F@H game" that's his habit. now $260/month cost isn't a cheap habit, at least to me. now, this guy is paying $10,000 on equipment + $260/month on power bill just trying to outproduce some network admin who's paying $0 on his company's 200 P4 farm. now, I really don't see how and why not this young gun should be rewarded with something (beating that network admin's "old farm" point/position/etc.) by spending that much of $$ for this habit/game!! I don't see why F@H's point system does not encourage people getting fastest machine (faster machine = faster result = stanford being happy too). if someone got a machine that can do either GPU or SMP, luck them and they should be rewarded with some bonus. if someone can't do GPU nor SMP, it's nothing wrong with them, but stop complain those guy (paid or not) having too fast of a machine for them to compete!! it sounds like he's complaining his next door neighbor's car is too fast for his, that's why the street limit should be lower!! what?? what kinda theory is that???

now, onto another point, saying that network admin's company 200 P4 farm got outproduced by this young gun's home brewed 20 C2D isn't fair too. fist of all, that 200 P4 is not his! it's only b/c he has no control of upgrading this compnay's slow (by nowaday's standard) farm, then he filed the complain!! should he able to make the company to upgrade all 200 machine to C2D grade, will he still complaining?? the point is, those company farm is not his machine, thus he'll just have to live with what those are. think of it this way, someone complaining his co-worker's personal car is too fast b/c his company car is slow?? I dont' see the point of this!!!

lastly, saying shuting off some slow machine cos it does produce as much as the new fast one while consuming as much or more electricity, well, that's a fact and that's what the world is heading to! faster and better tomorrow!! it sounds the same to me as why F@H needs to "specially" produce timeless WU just to accommodate those outdated slow P3s! the machine is outdated, it's outdated. are you complaining that you can't watch a HD DVD on your computer b/c your machine is too old/slow for it, and therefore, the movie company shouldn't produce those high quality HD movies?? if it's slow and/or you think it doesn't worth it, just admit it and try your best to get something faster instead of trying to slow down the whole world just for you!!

sorry, the above doesn't mean to be to any specific person here or in folding world. it's just my thought on what some other's "concern".

[ChasR]

When one SMP WU on a C2D makes 2800 ppd, it makes all the CPU WUs realtively closer to worthless. Doesn't matter who owns the machine. When all their past and present work has been devalued by huge bonus SMP WUs, the uniprocessor cpu folks, most of whom spent their hard earned dollars just like your young gun, will become disheartened and leave the project. I find myself not caring about the cpu client any more. I used to swap WUs around every day to try to squeze out a few hundred ppd more. That's not worth it when my SMP rigs put out more points in an hour than I can gain swapping WUs on single spu clients. We need to Jazz up the uniprocessor client and I'll post my ideas on that when I get home from work,

[LandShark]

When one SMP WU on a C2D makes 2800 ppd, it makes all the CPU WUs realtively closer to worthless. Doesn't matter who owns the machine.
I agree too! I think it's more like how much of a bonus should certain kind of WU receive rather than should certain client receive bonus at all. SMP/GPU/PS3 deserve bonus, yes! but should it be 300%? may be no!
When all their past and present work has been devalued by huge bonus SMP WUs, the uniprocessor cpu folks, most of whom spent their hard earned dollars just like your young gun, will become disheartened and leave the project.
may be look at it the other way around, may be folks with older machine (I'm just talking 'bout the machine regardless the client they are running) should upgrade/invest if they want to stay competitive?! no?! you know, it's like P3 folks can't get timeless WU, they could either upgrade the machine, keep on folding on normal WU (but might wasting electricity to some), or quit. if you can't fold the nowaday so-called "high performance folding", you can't argue others can. right?
I find myself not caring about the cpu client any more. I used to swap WUs around every day to try to squeze out a few hundred ppd more. That's not worth it when my SMP rigs put out more points in an hour than I can gain swapping WUs on single spu clients. We need to Jazz up the uniprocessor client and I'll post my ideas on that when I get home from work,
yeah, same here. and I'm sure a lot of us feeling the same too. (which not that I'm complaining spending less time on folding/swaping WU tho :p )

I too agree stanford needs to do something on the uniprocessor client. and I think, just personally thinking, one of the best way to keep everyone or every client folding along each other is to have each of their own good and bad thing.

e.g. when GPU first out, it's good 'cos we'll have a "guaranteed" ppd. it's bad is we'll also "limited" the ppd too. while the CPU will have a chance to get some nice bonus WU to outproduce GPU. now that's a good diversify!! and while SMP will, and I think should, have some nice bonus (but not necessary 300%!), the entry price might be high to most people (and that may go to future PS3 client too, good pointage, but high entry price). now that's a good way to balance things out and keep every client has each own interested user. like you want to take the chances/adventure? do CPU and hope for 149x/ribo (might make more to keep this client happy/interested tho!). you want to be set and forget or be steady? do GPU instead. you want some high pointage? do SMP/PS3, but you need to pay to play tho!

you see what I'm saying? and I hope some of you agree too! by applying some "trade off" for each client, that will keep every single client interesting enough for user and keep them to fold on or to try to fold on as many different clients as possible. as I've said before, diverse is the key and looks like is the future of F@H too. well, at least the current and future trend of F@H is, and will be, the so-called high performance folding, no doubt! so, GPU/SMP/PS3/future_client will most likely be Stanford's main focus for sure. but they might want to do something and to take care those who can't jump onto this new bandwagon (yet) too. simply say that, just don't left anyone behind!!

[WarriorII]

I opted and paid the price of building an Intel machine to get in on the QMD only thing.

Well, so much for that huh?
So I ran Wedo's X2 install for Winderz, for quite some time.
2 windoz clients.

But I can & did go SMP/native Linux instead. Not an option for Mr Corporate Folder, but my DC SMP put me just an `nano closer because I think (thought)
it actually Folded faster in Linux than Winderz. - So I switched.

I can handle not as big of a bonus.
I just hope they don't mess the WU's up trying to level the playing field.
A point adjustment is needed somewhere.

I like your idea of certain client configs being held to certain bonus's though.
but if I hit the jack pot in lotto, I'm gonna have to buy a seperate building and write it off as a donation to the Cancer Foundation.

Hm..... if that were only possible.
(it can't be donated for those who don't know - we've checked already)

[davekusa]

are we down agian?

assigned to 0.0.0.0?

[Macaholic]

are we down agian?

assigned to 0.0.0.0?

Thread here (http://forum.folding-community.org/fpost166846.html?sid=1ed8cd41872081be436cfaea6c00c 49e#166846). Of particular note;

Posted: Today at 1:40 am Post subject: (No subject)
The server ran out of work temporarily. I just brought one more SMP project online for server 56--hopefully that will take us through the night. There are several more SMP projects in the development stages--plenty more WU's coming soon.

[davekusa]

comming soon?????????
is that like QMD's were supposed to be back in a couple of weeks?

Should I just shut this rig off?

[Macaholic]

comming soon?????????
is that like QMD's were supposed to be back in a couple of weeks?

Should I just shut this rig off?

You are joking, right? We're all adults here. You can do with your machine as you see fit. I do believe the Uniprocessor client still has plenty of units up for grabs. :thup:

EDIT - Dr. Kasson just posted in another thread here (http://forum.folding-community.org/viewtopic.php?t=18069&highlight=). Of particular note;

Posted: Today at 10:59 pm Post subject: (No subject)
Yes--we were running a server update. The server has been low on work lately (one reason it hasn't been giving out work units), and we were adding several thousand new jobs. We will be repeating this process several times in the future to continue this process and provide more work units for donors.

[WarriorII]

Oh come on, [H] out produces up by 20,000 ppd, we just need another ChasR or p_scout among us is all !

[davekusa]

We're Back UP!

Yes, I was just joking.