my under 60.00 water cooling kit after rebates

[ahbroody]

Well I know everyone in this forum hates kits and will make the typical your wasting your money, you should have just flushed the money down the toilet or give it to me, a good air system would do better and is cheaper. Nothing but a homemade kit is good enough. I think I could have done better for less money(which I don’t think you could have here), and so on and so on. I figured I would post this anyways.

This kit was built for under 60.00. This kit is a good way for me to get started and experienced in water cooling. This kit does look pretty clean compared to some of the homemade kits I have seen. Granted I have to finish cleaning stuff up as this was the first pics and testing, so I will have cleaner install pics shortly.

Links used to build this
http://www.svc.com/rl-huc-e8u1.html in stock expires today 29.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835106053 in stock and ready to ship
https://paypal.promotionexpert.com/greatshopping/signup/200702/misc_s.html?route=misc 15.00 off purchase over 30.00 can be applied to coolmaster as purchase price is 65.00.
So after both rebates the kit is 15.00 +tax and shipping. I paid no shipping as they are local to me and 24.00 +tax and shipping from egg if you have to pay tax. So this kit is under 60.00 shipped and has 2 radiators.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/ahbroody/P1010666.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/ahbroody/P1010665.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/ahbroody/P1010664.jpg

Ahbroody

[golfking222]

What temps you getting? Cuz I spent like $100 on a really bad kit with bad temps lol. :P

[Captain Slug]

You really shouldn't have bothered with the thermaltake radiator. Not only is is a very bad idea to mix aluminum and copper in a loop, but it also sucks in terms of performance.
For the same price you could have gotten a Swiftech MCR-120
http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR-Quiet-Power-Series-radiators-120mm-Black-pr-3070.html

[golfking222]

This kind of doesn't belong here, but don't think it needed its own thread.

I've got two 80mm fan slots in the back of my case currently filled with 2 80mm fans. Would a Black Ice Extreme II fit there?

EDIT: and my case has got these grill kindof things in the back, would it help temps to cut them out?

[RIG RIDER]

You really shouldn't have bothered with the thermaltake radiator. Not only is is a very bad idea to mix aluminum and copper in a loop, but it also sucks in terms of performance.
For the same price you could have gotten a Swiftech MCR-120
http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR-Quiet-Power-Series-radiators-120mm-Black-pr-3070.html
Hey Slug, Where is the aluminum in the loop?
That rad has aluminum fins mounted on the outside of copper tubes............

[ahbroody]

rig rider beat me to it.
As i stated this was a starter into the world of water and cost me very little. But as usual I new the posts would come regarding you should have used this or that. The fact is for the size of the radiator and the compatibility it is the best deal.

Also the radiator you recomend has built in 3/8's hose barbs this is a 1/4 system so the suggestion would have forced me to spend time trying to adapt the radiator.
damn man come on

As to temps can anyone tell me how to monitor temps at start up I dont want to use the probe and stick it between the cpu and block as feel it will degrade contact. s there a program I can try or something??????

Ahbroody

[ps2cho]

How well does this work as compared to high end air cooling?

[moho]

As to temps can anyone tell me how to monitor temps at start up I dont want to use the probe and stick it between the cpu and block as feel it will degrade contact. s there a program I can try or something??????

Ahbroody
mounting probe between block and cpu=BAD IDEA :)
use the Bios to monitor startup temps.
also, if i do say myself, i couldnt have done better with $60. although, i hope you get your rebates :)

[Moto7451]

For $60, so long as you get good temps I don't care whats in there, thats a great price/performance system.

[AZNBoiOnFIYA]

Nice job on a starter kit into water, but just to let you know its only going to get more expensive the longer you stay in this forum. I have a d5 and just ended up buying an iwaki I didnt need :D

[ahbroody]

I have no doubts about the getting more expensive I already found a new waterblock which I can use which goes 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 http://www.petrastechshop.com/swapexpeunwa.html
The rebate is through coolmaster so I should get it. as for the paypal rebate I have gotten all other ones so I think i am good to go.

I can tell you that stock idel based on the program I found my e6400 idles stock at 27 so I dont know about OCing I am gonna play with that shortly and look at the bios to determine what startup temps are at idle then oc back up to 3.0-3.2 and see what the temps do.

I must admit this is a more positive response then I was expecting. Most people get torched for these kits, I guess it dont hurt that technically after rebates I am at roughly 40.00 + tax :).
Still 7 minutes left to order the kit and get the rebate
Ahbroody

[Valk]

Nice job on a starter kit into water, but just to let you know its only going to get more expensive the longer you stay in this forum. I have a d5 and just ended up buying an iwaki I didnt need :D


QFT although i havent quite felt the need to get an iwaki heh.
I do however have 6 fully barbed and ready to go rads, 2 pumps, 2 gpu blocks and a full box of misc ****nit.

This hobby definatly eats away at the pennies, but i got most of my stuff here on the forums used so twas awsome.

your rig looks BADASS for the money spent i have to say. if it keeps your cpu cool and your ears happy, its good in my book ;)

[Ducatti]

I have no doubts about the getting more expensive I already found a new waterblock which I can use which goes 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 http://www.petrastechshop.com/swapexpeunwa.html
The rebate is through coolmaster so I should get it. as for the paypal rebate I have gotten all other ones so I think i am good to go.

I can tell you that stock idel based on the program I found my e6400 idles stock at 27 so I dont know about OCing I am gonna play with that shortly and look at the bios to determine what startup temps are at idle then oc back up to 3.0-3.2 and see what the temps do.

I must admit this is a more positive response then I was expecting. Most people get torched for these kits, I guess it dont hurt that technically after rebates I am at roughly 40.00 + tax :).
Still 7 minutes left to order the kit and get the rebate
Ahbroody
I think most kits are actually under rated... If that system at that price cools better than your air solution did I think you did pretty good.

[Tommithy]

I'd be interested in your temps as well. It looks like you are using an E6400 cpu. Get a copy of TAT and run that to check idle and load temps.

[Captain Slug]

Hey Slug, Where is the aluminum in the loop?
That rad has aluminum fins mounted on the outside of copper tubes............
The product description disagrees, might be an error though.
All fins and tubes are made of aluminum

[Valk]

Ehh, the aluminum isnt gonna hurt anythig for a couple of months depending on the coolant used. with a good mix of 80/20 I had my aluminum dtek pump running for like 10 months before i felt the need to take it appart and scan it.
this will certainly give him enough time to decide if he wants to persue WC further with more customized parts.
There is nothing too wrong with these kits really. i still have my Aquagate minu laying around that i use from time to time. nice small contained unit that cools well.

[ahbroody]

well I was under the impression that it was a copper core. Regardless I highly doubt this will effect performance. If you are refering to the chemical reaction that occurrs when these 2 metals touch I think you need to remember only the fluid that runs through is touching and as someone who has worked in the plumbing field and re piped my whole house the time for the metals to start degrading is years. This kit will likely not be runing for nearly that long. Besides as I said you gave a bad alternative radiator which would have me hunting for adapters to make it work. The radiator I used is cheap seems to be effective and comes with 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 fittings as well with the kit ooo and the fan was included also in that price. yours would have me buying adapters and a fan so infact it is not nearly the same price. My point of this was to build a very inexpensive water kit that was fairly effective, clean, simple, and easy. Your recomendation would have raised the price of the kit and forced me to find adapters which may or may not exist or be easy to find. So again thanks but no thanks.

As to thoose who asked about temps they are as follows.
stock e6400 is 27 idle
at 2.48 idle jumps to 33
at 2.8 idle jumps to 35
at 3.1 idle jumps to 43
at 3.2 idle jumps to 46/47 seems to bounce back and forth.

I have no idea if these are good temps my gut tells me they are not so great. I would like to know what a articfreeze pro7 temp is as I never bothered to check the temps before removing this.
I cannot seem to figure out the load temps as in bios there is no real difference from the temps i see there and these temps in which leads me to believe either the coretemp program is giving false high readings or the bios temp I am seeing isnt true load temp. Any advice would be great here, except recomending a different radiator as I am trying to keep the kit under 50.00-60.00

One other thing that I have noticed is the tank temp is reading 27 degrees constant, does this mean I am not getting great contact between the block and the cpu. I think I may have applied a bit to much thermal compund whenI first did this.

Ahbroody

[ahbroody]

will try to find this tat program right now and run that.

as I just said can anyone tell me if the tank temp seems wrong, shouldnt it be a little higher when core temp is 46

AhBroody

[Valk]

nah. seems fine to me. the water temp in your res SHOULD be within a few degrees of ambient. your core will be at least 10C higher, and that is with the better waterblocks and radiators on the market.
Your temps really arent bad at all. they wouldnt be that much better with that rad he suggested either.
I still say good job. i know there are criticisms out there, but i sure couldnt do it for $60.

[ahbroody]

See so now I already want to go buy that waterblock I posted. I am gonna wait to start upgrading though.

If I applied to much thermal would that screw things up???
Also should I lap the processor, I have never done this but here many have done this?
I guess I will mess around for the next few days to try to drop temps a little more.

OOh yeah as to the core on the rad I really think it is copper. In looking at the pipes inside the aluminiumthet look
copper

Ahbroody

[Ducatti]

See so now I already want to go buy that waterblock I posted. I am gonna wait to start upgrading though.

If I applied to much thermal would that screw things up???
Also should I lap the processor, I have never done this but here many have done this?
I guess I will mess around for the next few days to try to drop temps a little more.

OOh yeah as to the core on the rad I really think it is copper. In looking at the pipes inside the aluminiumthet look
copper

Ahbroody

Hehe... I'm resisting the urge to start modding my corsair.... people told me it was addictive, but I figured I could resist.

Must Not Purchase New Parts....

[evilrad]

As to thoose who asked about temps they are as follows.
stock e6400 is 27 idle
at 2.48 idle jumps to 33
at 2.8 idle jumps to 35
at 3.1 idle jumps to 43
at 3.2 idle jumps to 46/47 seems to bounce back and forth.



Idle temps don't count for much, but those temps in the 40s is way to high anyway. What really counts is full load temps. Run Orthos or two instances of Prime95 and watch those temps skyrocket. With idle temps that high, I wouldn't be surprised if your load temps were over 70 degrees!

[schmide]

Ha newegg had the Cooler Master for 26.99 after rebate + shipping

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835103006

[Moto7451]

Usually I recommend upgrading the radiator, pump, and then the block when dealing with kit parts. I at one point was running a heatercore, Via 1800, and an Evercool WC202 block and it performed pretty well.

[ahbroody]

Ha newegg had the Cooler Master for 26.99 after rebate + shipping

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835103006

Wow by posting this you pretty much showed you cant read and didnt check the links I posted or anything I wrote. If you would have bothered to go to SVC 's website you would have found their rebate ran from 1-15-07 to 2-15-07. Which means it expired yesterday. Then if you bothered to check the date on neweggs rebate you will see it runs from 2-16-07 to 2-28-07. So that means it started today the day after the other one ended. Also if you had bothered to read my post you would have noticed that SVC is local to me so I didnt pay the 10.00 shipping that anyone would pay buying from the egg. So my kit was 29,00+ tax and this is over 37.00 +tax as I live in the great state of california. But hey dont let the facts get in the way of a flame right????

Anyway I will try to run orthos tonight. As I stated to evilrad the kit was 45.00 all together and was a way for me to get started and explore water. I know around here unless it totally owns air many say why bother doing water as I posted in my first post. As i explained there I am trying to just get my feet wet here and decide if I want to bother with water. Yes I am sure your water kit which cost you much more blows mine away. This was not the attempt of my kit. It was to explore water, which is the point I have trieds to express from the start. I have seen people with more expensive kits not run much better temps also. However I will run Orthos and post the I am sure 70 score so you can say seee you just wasted your money, and again I will say I am just trying this for fun.

Also isnt there a possibility that I have a bad OCer that runs hot?? I am pretty dsure I have heard of this so this could also be a factor.

Ahbroody

[schmide]

I wasn't trying to thread crap sorry...

SVC just has horrible shipping rates usually like 20-40 bucks, where as the egg usually maxes out at 11 bucks so it makes the deal more viable for those who don't have SVC local.

Anyways, I just got one for my nephew, I hope he gets as good results as you.

[schmide]

Oh btw I did some research and the coolermaster has a pure aluminium radiator and aluminium reservoir, so those metals will migrate towards the copper. I do wonder if the extra copper from the extra radiator will change the speed of migration in your setup. The more equal the anode and cathode the more movement of ions.

I was actually thinking about finding a aluminium block for my nephew's system just to avoid any troubles.

[ahbroody]

Wow that sucks then sorry mate thought you were trying to poke at me. As for the aluminum radiator I thought it was when I opened the little case today. So that means they made a copper block and aluminum radiator I guess i should send them a nasty gram. Well I guess you get what you pay for. Like I said if you use the paypal link you can pick it up in the end for about 15.00 plus shipping and tax. I fully admit this is not a great kit. I just thought it would be fun to play with for 15.00, 45.00 with the extra rad shipped.
I guess I am lucky cause SVC is about 10 minutes from my house on the freeway so they really cant screw me. :) I didnt know they had a bad rap. They are like most hole in the wall tech shops around here. Slim margins trying to make a buck. We also got Petrastechshop near by.

As evilrad expected orthos had me bump the 69-70 mark during the 2nd and fourth test, so I guess it really isnt that good. Of course I dont know if I have a bad ocer or not. That was at 3.2 though. Oh well all i do is game fps on this rig and it stayed about 50 while gamming which will hold me for a few moths till I can drop a few hundred on an upgraded kit. Funny I am already maping out my next kit and what I will do. I am going to try to keep a clean look though as I hate kits that look homade.

Good luck with the kit. I would recomend that second radiator as I am sure it is definetly helping me right now. Hopefully I wont have to much degradation over a 2-3 month period till I can hide enough money from the wife to buy a better kit. :)

Ahbroody

[Captain Slug]

Did some poking around and found the internal image. The radiator is the same aluminum one used for the Aquagate Mini R80. The pump presumably is also the same. The reservoir is also aluminum.
:bang head

Atleast the CPU block is decent. I'd tear out the radiator and reservoir, leave the pump in place with the disconnects, and install a T-line. So for $29 you're getting a weak pump, a decent LCD (that you can mount in the single bay bracket later), pump relay, coolant, hardware bits, and an okay waterblock.

[ahbroody]

Did some poking around and found the internal image. The radiator is the same aluminum one used for the Aquagate Mini R80. The pump presumably is also the same. The reservoir is also aluminum.
:bang head

Atleast the CPU block is decent. I'd tear out the radiator and reservoir, leave the pump in place with the disconnects, and install a T-line. So for $29 you're getting a weak pump, a decent LCD (that you can mount in the single bay bracket later), pump relay, coolant, hardware bits, and an okay waterblock.
See I want to keep the read out section cause I like the look. If I tear out the radiator which I agree is likely mostly useless when I have the bigger one, that could still work I guess. I like 2 things about the tank though. 1. is it has a temperature guage. 2 it has a level indicator with autoshutoff for the pump. Both these things work with the display panel. I know for a fact if I tried to build a like system I would fugger it all up. The cool thing is when the coolant is low because this system ties into the power button on your mobo. It not only shuts down the pump, but also kills the system and shuts everything down. I really like these concepts for safety reasons, which is the same reason why I bought the silverstone case to reverse mount the board for safety in case of a leak. I am a water noob.

Slug now I am wondering if I would get better cooling by dumping the small radiator in the kit and just running the thermaltake 120. I dont think the pump is strong enough to run like a swiftech double 120 right?? cause that would be kind of a cool down the road mod also. dumping both small radiators and trying a double 120.00.

Last night I cleaned up alot of excess AS5 and dropped my clock speed to 3.0 and I seem to be hovering at 39-40 on my e6400 so I think for now till I upgrade this kit I will hang there and just try to learn a little more.

Ahbroody

[Captain Slug]

The radiator is attached to the reservoir, so if you want to ditch one you have to ditch both.
If you wanted to keep those sensor features but also ditch the radiator and reservoir you would then need to figure out a way to tie them into a T-line.

I just ordered one of these for cooling a socket 478 HTPC that will end up in an closed cabinet. I will probably end up replacing the copper CPU block with an aluminum one (either custom machined or a modified VGA block).

[ahbroody]

I thought aluminum was bad preferred to copper That was why nobody makes aluminum blocks even though it would be cheaper?
Doesnt sockket 478 run hotter then the core to duo 775 so I would be more concearned i guess about cooling.

What about putting a plexi resivior in the unit after removing the the combo? provided I could figure out how to mount the 2 probes which shouldnt be to hard now that I think about it?

You never said whether you think this pump could handel a double 120 radiator if removed the existing stock radiator? My gutt says no.

Ahbroody

[Drinkyoghurt]

hmm i have the same kit, though i dont use it and wanted to sell it, but now i see its better to keep it(i bought it for 100 euros back then) then to sell it with a 75% loss :D, maybe ill install it in my dads system :D

[Captain Slug]

1. I thought aluminum was bad compared to copper That was why nobody makes aluminum blocks even though it would be cheaper?
2. Doesn't socket 478 run hotter then the Core Duo?
3. What about putting a plexi resivior in the unit after removing the the combo? provided I could figure out how to mount the 2 probes which shouldnt be to hard now that I think about it?
4. You never said whether you think this pump could handle a double 120 radiator if removed the existing stock radiator? My gutt says no.
1. It's less than ideal, but I would prefer to switch to an aluminum CPU block over having to worry about potential corrosion. Aluminum blocks are very rare because copper is more efficient, but I have the tools needed to adapt even a VGA or chipset block to my needs.
2. Since it's an HTPC this machine is idle 90% of the time so it's heat output is pretty low. And this is definitely not a machine that would benefit from overclocking. Temperature-wise this unit really only has to best the 2U heatsink it's replacing.
3. If you can get one made sure. If you make it out of acrylic make sure to use plastic barbs.
4. I'm pretty sure your gut is correct. The pump is really small and presumably pathetic.

[ahbroody]

Well with the rad and tank out maybe I could squeeze a bigger pump and resiviour inside the box in the future then a double 120 down below and then hey I have replaced the whole kit. hahahahahahahahahahhahah, but if I can get it to wire up I would have the same control panel and features of the kit.

See so basically I would have paid 15.00 after both rebates for a dispaly panel and control unit. This is me trying to justify my purchase, hahah. I am determined to try to keep the features of the control unit when I upgrade I love the digital temp and kill switch features as well as the look of the display. Guess I will start doing some research and head down to the local tap plastics to build me a plexi resivior and see what pump would fit in there. See that alone is already 100.00 I bet. then the new radiator 60.00, then the new appoge gt 50.00. DAMN IT OVER 200.00. hahahahahahha

Ahbroody

[Captain Slug]

The bay unit is too small to fit anything really useful inside except for a reservoir. Any extra space you could use to mount the PCI relay card.
If you want a cheap replacement AC pump go with the Via Aqua 1800 which is $16 through pet supply (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=8164&Ntt=via%20aqua&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1). It has 1/2" NPT input and output so you'll need adapter bushings or plastic barbed tube fittings (you can get 10 for $5 through www.mcmaster.com ).
Clip the small old pump out of the unit and extend its old power leads to a receptacle for plugging in your replacement pump.

[ahbroody]

Captain Slug,
I found this which would definetly fit but its dc it only flows 120 gph
http://www.svc.com/mcp355.html

this would fit as well but is dc and 150 gph
http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadenmagiile.html

This would also definetly fit and flows 210 gph but is also dc and is 100.00 O MY GOD 100.00!!!
http://www.petrastechshop.com/laddcwpeddto.html
NEVER MIND JUST READ THIS PUMP HAS HIGH FAILURE AND TO STICK WITH THE STOCK VERSION

Lastly this one which is 143 gph and would fit but again is dc.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/dadencs12vop.html

Again dont know how this would work as appears existing pump is AC and not sure if the kill switch would work with DC.

I am electric stupid and would need to do some reading to learn to do this I am sure.

As to the via aqua hell I have afew of thoose laying around. I have 2 saltwater fishtanks in my house. Also I can get thoose pumps at cost from local shops friends own. Hell Ihave a small iwaki laying around as well but i wanted to contain it and the iwaki definetly wont fit in the box think its a md15 or md10 will look when I get home from work. hahhaahha I didnt even think about this till you said that.

Ahbroody

[Moto7451]

Flow is not as important as pressure. That first pump (MCP355) would work excellently in any setup.

You may as well use the iwakis you have. Those are good pumps. From the looks of it, if you gutted the whole box you could fit a single 120mm rad and fan.

Unless you feel like spending more money, I'd say try to use what you have and go from there. An Iwaki + a heatercore + your current Waterblock should perform well. IIRC the coolermaster block has a simple pin design that isn't too bad overall. It also looks cool I think.

[ahbroody]

OOOO no i wasnt trying to mount the rad in the box, not at all. I just wanted to contain the pump and tank in the coolmaster box which appears to be more than doable based on the small pumps I found.
The issue I think I have or will have is the existing pump is AC,(holy cripe I just realized what the power cable that I attached to the back of the coolmaster box is for hahhahahahahahah. Its the power for the pump) now that power cable makes sense to me. So now I need to figure out how I can use the kit to control a DC pump so it has the same autokill feature if the tank level drops or the core gets to hot it shuts the system down.

Ahbroody

[Captain Slug]

Got mine setup today. Here you can see why I've been having trouble with getting by with air cooling, even though I did serious internal modification to the case to provide effective airflow. The rest of the family is dead-set on keeping this cabinet closed, which thing leaving this machine very unhappy after a day or two.
http://www.captainslug.com/modding/r_9995.jpg
http://www.captainslug.com/modding/r_9996.jpg
It's running idle 99% of the time because the hardware-decoding capture card does the majority of the work. The processor only has to process the TV guide data once a day.

The unit is working fine. The pump is "noisier" than I would like, but I kind of have ridiculous standards in that department. Some time soon I will probably be disconnecting the stock pump and putting a Via Aqua 1800 inside the cabinet.

[ahbroody]

So funny I am going to be tweaking mine a little for fun in a few weeks. I was so stupid interms of pump power and how ot make it shut off if tank level got to low or temperatures got to high. I didnt realize that if I attach the level and temp probes to the new tank and attach the new pump to the computer power, when the unit powers down the computer do to a temp spike or loss of pressure it will kill the power on the pump as well. I am so tempted to totally modify this thing but it is doing the job fine for now and I figure I will run it for a few months while I sell off old stuff and save up money for a new pump and custom resivoir. Then I will be switching over to this little guy http://www.svc.com/mcp355.html
doing this mod http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-03.html
and running a double 120.
the only thing outside the CM box will be the double rad which will be in the front of my case.

clean install slug but thought your family would want that box hidden more???

Ahbroody

[Captain Slug]

clean install slug but thought your family would want that box hidden more???
Funny you should mention that. There has been discussion of cutting a hole in the bottom of a basket so the unit can sit inside it unseen, but still capable of breathing. :rolleyes:
For the time being it's pretty hard to notice anyways since it's behind that giant propeller clock and a mahogany aircraft model.

Eventually it will get replaced by a 2-foot-tall passive thermal stack radiator and a cheap pump.