Watercooled Alienware ALX System

[Gel214th]

Hello everyone,

I am the un/fortunate owner of an Alienware ALX system with watercooling. The CPU and both GPUs are watercooled with what seems to be a closed radiator type system.It is supposed to require no maintenance.
The radiator sits at the top of the machine covered by what seems to be 3 large 120mm fans.

The machine is a Athlon FX60 chip, 2GB of RAM and two 7800GT 256MB graphics cards. Those cards are my issue.

As we now see new games being released such as Flight Simulator X, Supreme Commander, Stalker, Test Drive Unlimited, Rainbow Six vegas etc. do not have proper support for SLI. If you get any frame rate increase at all it is woefully low, in the range of 10frames or less in my experience. So essentially my SLI rig relies on a single graphics card for most recent games (This is definitely the case with FSX and Supreme Commander).

A 7800GT is becoming nearly entry level now, and approaching the 'low - end' spec. for SM3.0 games.

I have a 24" 1920 x 1200 monitor and of course that's another part of my problem. My two 7800GTs are overclocked to 440Mhz core and about 1040Mhz Memory and max out at about 58 degrees celcius under load. But it still isn't enough for widescreen gaming with SM3.0 games.

Anyway...I now need to change graphics cards. And that's where I am stuck.

Is there any hope, or is it even advisable, to purchase two or even one XFX WaterCooled 8800GTX card and attempt to install it into this machine?

Where would I start? :bday:

The machine was a significant investment, and I cannot toss it, and it would be difficult to sell. It works just fine...I just need a GPU upgrade. Somehow.

[inkfx]

Well if the block that comes with the system doesn't fit then you've got a couple of options. You could buy a GPU block that does fit or scrap the W/C on the GPU and stick an aftermarket air cooler on it.

[thideras]

Well if the block that comes with the system doesn't fit then you've got a couple of options. You could buy a GPU block that does fit or scrap the W/C on the GPU and stick an aftermarket air cooler on it.
I'd say just remove the GPU from the loop, the stock coolers that come with the 8800s are pretty decent.

EDIT: Oh yeah....:welcome: to the forums!

[Gel214th]

I'd say just remove the GPU from the loop, the stock coolers that come with the 8800s are pretty decent.



Ohs.

Well...I was looking at this :
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/408/

Either way...what is the general methodology for either
a) Removing the cards from the 'loop'
or
b) Connecting that 8800GTX.

When I say I don't know where to start, that's where I mean. Inside the case is the complicated loops of tubing filled with this bluish liquid.

The tubes are screwed into some...errmm..thingies with thumb markings on each graphics card. 0_0

[thideras]

First question I have is, how much do you trust yourself working on a computer? How about adding water into that? If you have had no experience, I'd find someone who could help you, ask around, maybe someone has done that in your area. Think of how bad things could get if something messes up? A new computer? That is on the extreme side, but IMO a possibility (risks multiply when you have never done this before).

What it comes down to is, how much are you willing to risk? What I would recommend doing is completely dropping everything back to air cooled, no water, no problem. I just really think that this is too much of a risk for you to be taking, but if you REALLY want to do it, we are always here to help! :bday:

[darkcow]

could you tell use the size of the tubing? is it 1/4 inch inner diamter? 3/8? 1/2?
is there a way to fill your loop? as in a reservoir or a t-line?

and also send us some pictures. heres a step by step account of what you should do.

1) take everything out of the case except the water cooling loop (take the water blocks of the video cards and the cpu)
2) place a bucket underneath
3) take the clamps of the tubing where the Video blocks are
4) pull the tubing off
5) get all the water out of the loop, or as much as you can, tip the case this way and that.
6) buy 2 8800GTX water blocks, install them
7) put your MOBO along with both 8800's in you case and install properly.
8) connect your tubing exactly how it looked in your previous loop.(if you give a pic i can tell you how to mount it)
8.1) if your tubing looks way to small to fit onto the 8800 water blocks get some reducers. IE 3/8 inch to 1/4 inch and some 3/8 inch tubing, connect the 3/8 inch end to the water block, and the 1/4 inch end to the water loop.
9) unscrew you water blocks, take the MOBO and video cards out.
10) get some distilled water, add some providone iodine and antifreeze if you want.
11) fill up your loop, there should be a t-line or reservior somewhere to allow you to fill. if not make a cut somewhere in your loop, add a T-line and then that will be your fill port
12) run your pump over night and check for leaks, if no leaks start gaming.


be warned, this will increase the temps of your processor.

[d94]

got pics of inside the case?
PS, if you trust yourself id deffinetly go for sli WC's 8800gtx's :cool:

[thideras]

Also, make sure you post pics of the radiator, I highly doubt that the stock one can handle 2 8800GTX's and a CPU...no way

[Neuromancer]

If you do not feel comforatable draining and refilling your loop (loop is the closed circuit of the water cooling system) then could could always... just unscrew the waterblocks from the GFX cards, and try tucking them out of the way somewhere without putting too much pressure on the hoses, then remove the 7800s and pop in your single GTX. This is a worst case scenario though... it will not involve draining/filling your loop but will leave all that tubing and gpu blocks inside the system. This way also you can remount them to the 7800s should you wish to sell the PC later.

Unplug your computer first before doing anything though, this way if you spring a leak it does not do any damage, just need to clean it and wait for it to dry before powering up again.

Getting somone who lives in your area to come and help is a great idea, but reading as much as you can on the subject is sufficient for most of us.

[thideras]

If you do not feel comforatable draining and refilling your loop (loop is the closed circuit of the water cooling system) then could could always... just unscrew the waterblocks from the GFX cards, and try tucking them out of the way somewhere without putting too much pressure on the hoses, then remove the 7800s and pop in your single GTX. This is a worst case scenario though... it will not involve draining/filling your loop but will leave all that tubing and gpu blocks inside the system. This way also you can remount them to the 7800s should you wish to sell the PC later.

Unplug your computer first before doing anything though, this way if you spring a leak it does not do any damage, just need to clean it and wait for it to dry before powering up again.

Getting somone who lives in your area to come and help is a great idea, but reading as much as you can on the subject is sufficient for most of us.

The CPU is in the loop also.

[Gel214th]

Oh.

Good.

Grief.

:confused:

Let me see if I can get some pictures as the first item. I'll do that in the morning.

Why...WHYYYY did I purchase this totally water cooled system!?
Arrgghh!
:bang head:

[thideras]

Oh.

Good.

Grief.

:confused:

Let me see if I can get some pictures as the first item. I'll do that in the morning.

Why...WHYYYY did I purchase this totally water cooled system!?
Arrgghh!
:bang head:
Dude, you got a Dell!!

:bday:

Personally, I'd ditch it (sell it) and build from scratch.

[fireandice]

Dude, you got a Dell!!

:bday:

Personally, I'd ditch it (sell it) and build from scratch.

tru.dat

Ebay it. the ALX should bring a 1337 price because its a ALX. then build a C2d machine that stomps that into the ground.

[thideras]

tru.dat

Ebay it. the ALX should bring a 1337 price because its a ALX. then build a C2d machine that stomps that into the ground.

I second the motion.

[noxqzs]

A picture will definetly help out to identify all the components. Realistically to start, one 8800gts/gtx would be fine to run with his current cpu. You can always add another later. I run 1920x1200 on all the games you mentioned with one 8800gtx and its great. Two would proabably give me seizures from the mind blazing speed.

Once everyone sees what size tubing you have, what type of fittings the tubing is attached to, the type of pump, radiator, fans, etc... you will get more information than you can shake a stick at. I don't remember where I heard this phrase: "haste makes waste", proabably from some grown up back in the day, but it still holds true. Take your time.

[fireandice]

i vote 3/8th tubeing. I think thats what the ALX uses but im prob. wrong.

[thideras]

A picture will definetly help out to identify all the components. Realistically to start, one 8800gts/gtx would be fine to run with his current cpu. You can always add another later. I run 1920x1200 on all the games you mentioned with one 8800gtx and its great. Two would proabably give me seizures from the mind blazing speed.

Once everyone sees what size tubing you have, what type of fittings the tubing is attached to, the type of pump, radiator, fans, etc... you will get more information than you can shake a stick at. I don't remember where I heard this phrase: "haste makes waste", proabably from some grown up back in the day, but it still holds true. Take your time.

Yes, but you think that a single (maybe 120mm) radiator can handle a 8800GTX AND a CPU? That is alot of heat that needs to be removed. I really doubt that it can do it, but hey, we have opinions, and if that is what you think, np.

[fireandice]

i think a single can if the cpu was a 65watter but not the FX-60.

i would say atleast a dual 120mm if not tripple is needed.

[Big Mike]

The Aurora ALX was cooled using a Koolance Exos system modified slightly for that particular PC, I believe its all 1/4" tubing which sucks, the radiator was ok but the water blocks and tubing size are all too small for serious water cooling.

[noxqzs]

Yes, but you think that a single (maybe 120mm) radiator can handle a 8800GTX AND a CPU? That is alot of heat that needs to be removed. I really doubt that it can do it, but hey, we have opinions, and if that is what you think, np.

I doubt it could. however,


The radiator sits at the top of the machine covered by what seems to be 3 large 120mm fans.


Its possible to do anything, its just a matter of how far you are willing to go. The easiest route would be to eliminate the gpu waterblocks from the system, wc the cpu, and install a new video card.

[thideras]

I doubt it could. however,



Its possible to do anything, its just a matter of how far you are willing to go. The easiest route would be to eliminate the gpu waterblocks from the system, wc the cpu, and install a new video card.

Exactly, I totally agree, remove the video card from the loop.

[Gel214th]

Hey..I'm back. And I brought pictures *grin*

I posted it to a blog I'm involved with here:
http://islandgamers.wordpress.com/2007/03/26/pc-alienware-alx-system/

Let me know if I need to post the images directly to the Forum.I tried to post what I thought would be most pertinent.

http://islandgamers.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/dsc00728.JPG
http://islandgamers.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/dsc00720.JPG
http://islandgamers.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/dsc00722.JPG
http://islandgamers.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/dsc00721.JPG
http://islandgamers.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/dsc00723.JPG



I see the notes about removing the GPUs from the cooling loop. That sounds like a great solution, since I've realised GPUs change much too rapidly for an enthusiast system to go for long without the owner wanting to swap them out.

Wish I had thought about that before making the Alienware purchase *grin*
:bang head:

So now, with the pictures, what advice do you kind and knowledgeable people have? :)
I don't want to sell the system if I don't have to :)

[Big Mike]

Holy crap, buy a can of air duster for starters. Beyond that, I'd probably just take the graphics cards out of the loop and run it to just the CPU. If your not comfortable working on an all new water cooling loop for the PC that's probably the easiest thing to do. Otherwise I'd pull everything out and put a new rad and blocks in with at least 3/8 tubing. As I said that's a koolance EXOS system which isn't very highly regarded around "these parts"

[Gel214th]

Yeah. It seems to need blowing out and cleaning.
Yeesh :-}
Maybe I should photoshop off the dirt and repost the pictures lol ^_^

[Zx2Slow]

Those Koolance rads are aluminum as well as their blocks, they are only coated to look like copper. Koolance should be coming out with a G80 block shortly, but If you want to do it right scrap the current watercooler/case, or at least run a second loop.

[jcw122]

That's not any old dust....sorta looks like smoker's dust to me.

[Gel214th]

What is smoker's dust?? 0_0

[noxqzs]

the good news is that your motherboard will allow for some overclocking of your cpu, unless you have already done so.

IMO, it should be very simple to reflush that system. The tubing is attached through compression fittings, making it that much easier. I am not familiar with the rest of the watercooling loop, but does it contain a reservoir or refill port? or is it sealed. In the picture showing your cpu block, at the top there is a small amount of air trapped. Doesn't look like much, but it could be enough to produce noise from the pump.

If you do not have a reservoir or any type of fill port, then to fill the system you need a small bucket or similar. You basically fill the system full of water, while one part of the loop is open. Then you take both open ends, submerge in bucket and have pump bleed all air out. This literally takes a matter of seconds. Once you see the loop circulating without bubbles, close both open ends while submerged.

[reclaimer122]

Your rad!! It is CAKED in dust! Looks more like an air filter covered in fabric than a rad! DEFINATELY clean that case out first. I'd get a compressor, take the case outside, and blast away...

As for the video cards, I myself would buy some new waterblocks first for the card(s) you want, and then get the new card(s). The loop itself looks fine I think. But now, if you go for an 8800... Then I think you'd be better off with high-end air.

[Gel214th]

the good news is that your motherboard will allow for some overclocking of your cpu, unless you have already done so.

If you do not have a reservoir or any type of fill port, then to fill the system you need a small bucket or similar. You basically fill the system full of water, while one part of the loop is open. Then you take both open ends, submerge in bucket and have pump bleed all air out. This literally takes a matter of seconds. Once you see the loop circulating without bubbles, close both open ends while submerged.

The system is supposed to be a zero maintenance system so I am assuming that there is nowhere to fill up anything.

I would most likely choose the single card 8800GTX solution, air cooled. Which means I somehow have to disconnect the graphics cards from the whole water cooling scenario.

I have built my own PC before the Alienware, it's still being used by a friend in his store, it's been going for about 7 years now. But I have *never* tried any form of watercooling at all.

What are the risks with doing something like this?
How do you go about disconnecting the lines without spilling water everywhere?
Is it really water in those tubes?
How would you 'rejoin' the lines?

[SolidxSnake]

Personally, I think you should ditch it and get a new rig. It's not worth watercooling IMO if you're using a Koolance kit. It just doesn't have any benefits of watercooling besides bling factor. It would be a hassle switching out the cards, especially with no prior experience in the W/C field. In a non-rude way, I want to state that you shouldn't jump into it without any experience in the watercooling field. Selling that computer shouldn't be so hard, there's plenty of people out there who would love to have an Alienware.

First matter of business... canned air or an air compressor. :)

edit: You posted while I was typing my response, so lemme answer it a bit.

Risks: If you jump into it not knowing what you're doing, without research etc, then you have the chance of completely destroying your whole rig. With the proper precautions and care, you will have no problems.

Disconnecting the lines... hmm, I'm not sure, I've never used compression fittings. Not my expertise.

Water in the tubes? Not sure about Koolance, but yes, it's most likely a mix of distilled water and some sort of antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor.

Rejoining the lines depends on the fittings. Again, I'm not sure on compression fittings.

Watercooling, if done right, is just as safe and trustworthy as aircooling, if not moreso. I've run my loop 24/7 for almost a year now, besides maintenance, no problems at all. It's just a matter of research and experience. If you haven't had much experience with mounting aftermarket heatsinks for GPUs and CPUs, and just basic case and computer modding, I personally wouldn't go into watercooling, It'd be too much trouble IMO. Eventually, it all becomes second nature. :)

[Neuromancer]

The CPU is in the loop also.

Yes my point was that he can leave the gpu blocks (but remove the cards) on in the loop and still be cooling the CPU without needing to drain it, so it would still be running 3 blocks, but only one heat source. I do not recommend that route.. in a worst case scenario he could do that.

You could a heatsink for the CPU and remove the WC loop entirely, play with it outside of the case until you are comfortable disassembling, reassembling, draining, filling, bleeding and leak testing then add a 8800 block and reinstall in your PC :):)

[thideras]

Yes my point was that he can leave the gpu blocks (but remove the cards) on in the loop and still be cooling the CPU without needing to drain it, so it would still be running 3 blocks, but only one heat source. I do not recommend that route.. in a worst case scenario he could do that.

Oh, I see what you mean, that is a good idea, I like it.

[Big Mike]

The system is supposed to be a zero maintenance system so I am assuming that there is nowhere to fill up anything.

I would most likely choose the single card 8800GTX solution, air cooled. Which means I somehow have to disconnect the graphics cards from the whole water cooling scenario.

I have built my own PC before the Alienware, it's still being used by a friend in his store, it's been going for about 7 years now. But I have *never* tried any form of watercooling at all.

What are the risks with doing something like this?
How do you go about disconnecting the lines without spilling water everywhere?
Is it really water in those tubes?
How would you 'rejoin' the lines?

Actually from the pictures I saw of one taken apart it appears that the pump is in a resivoir attached to the radiator and there is in fact a fill port on top of that resivoir. I think you have to pull all that stuff down out of the top of the case to get to it but you can refill it there from what I saw. The best way to eliminate components is to just pull the gpu blocks out of the case and disconnect them and let it all drain out of those hoses. As long as the PC is off and not plugged in even if you get a little spill it shouldnt hurt anything as long as you let it dry out. As for bypassing I'd just remove the hose going from the CPU to the GPUs and use the last hose from the last GPU going back up to the rad and pump and shorten it and connect it to the CPU block. The stuff in the tubes should just be water with an antifreeze/anti algae additive.

[aaronjb]

In the picture showing your cpu block, at the top there is a small amount of air trapped. Doesn't look like much, but it could be enough to produce noise from the pump.

I thought the same thing. Aside from getting rid of the dust that's caked everywhere - on the radiator especially - there's air in the CPU block. It may be causing noise, but more importantly, it's probably reducing the cooling capacity of the block itself.

[[O-CuK]Marci]

EDIT: N/mind.

[Goshawk]

tru.dat

Ebay it. the ALX should bring a 1337 price because its a ALX. then build a C2d machine that stomps that into the ground.


I third this motion. With the price drop coming in April, the machine the OP could put together would OWN.


~ Gos

[Ducatti]

What is smoker's dust?? 0_0
It's a type of coating that builds up on electronics when someone smokes in the area.
Are you a smoker? Where are you located? That does seem like an excessive amount of buildup to me...

[thideras]

It's a type of coating that builds up on electronics when someone smokes in the area.
Are you a smoker? Where are you located? That does seem like an excessive amount of buildup to me...

Yes, but if this is a 2+ year old computer, I see that as pretty good...

[Ducatti]

Yes, but if this is a 2+ year old computer, I see that as pretty good... LOL... I guess it depends on who you are, I clean out my rig every 6 months or so to ensure I never get buildup. Once that crap gets caked on it's harder and messier to get off.

[thideras]

LOL... I guess it depends on who you are, I clean out my rig every 6 months or so to ensure I never get buildup. Once that crap gets caked on it's harder and messier to get off.

I completely agree, I clean mine whenever I can...I think I'm OCD...lol :beer:

[QuietIce]

I'd rather spend my "cleaning time" over ther next 6 months figuring a way to do it once more then use filters from there on out ... ;)

[Gel214th]

Wow.

So I finally got that can of compressed air and blew out the system, especially the caked dust around the radiator. The floor is a mess, but I got the dust off.

The difference is amazing. THe system used to run around 37 degrees C to 41 degrees C.It's down to about 32 degrees C now. I haven't put it under load yet, but that's a big improvement.

Wow. That dust seemed to truly lower the cooling capabilities of the fans and the radiator 0_0

I have not done the card transplant yet. I still see no way to pull off the top of the case to expose the radiator from above. That leaves me with the option of removing the watercooling blocks from the 7800GTs and leaving them hanging in the case. I'm still considering the whole thing and what I should do.

In other news....umm...I ordered a Dell H2C. With the dual phase cooling system. Please don't flame me ^_^

To answer some of the other responses: I am in the tropics, and the fiance smokes heavily in the computer room so that's where the 'smoker's Dust' came from. Yes the machine was bought in November/December 2005 so it's not exactly two years yet. Really sad to think that I couldn't just yank the cards and drop in a 8800GTX. Oh well. Hindisight 20/20 and all that stuff. *sigh*.

At least with the Dell only the CPU is watercooled, and the entire H2C system can literally SWIVEL up and off the CPU in one neat motion. There is just a cold plate that I believe touches the CPU and Paste etc. The rest of the cooling system stands off and can swivel outward and be removed. There are power connections to the unit, but of course those can be easily disconnected. This cooling system doesn't affect the graphics cards at all, so they are accessible as normal to be changed in the future.

[thideras]

In other news....umm...I ordered a Dell H2C. With the dual phase cooling system. Please don't flame me ^_^

Omg!! ITS A DELL!!! lol, run!!! :beer:



Wow. That dust seemed to truly lower the cooling capabilities of the fans and the radiator 0_0
Well, that is what dust gets paid to do! :bday:

And it does its job very well.

[voigts]

I had a friend at work who brought me his computer because he said it would only run for like a minute and then cut off. He and his wife are both chain smokers. I had to literally take apart the PS and grab handfuls of tar gooked dust wads out as they wouldn't come out by compressed air. I wiped the entire case down to include the cards to try to get the tar/dust/slime off of everything. I have never smoked, and I can tell you that computer case is more than enough reason for me to never consider even taking a puff.

Even with watercooling, I take mine outside and blow out the dust every month or so. With aircooling, I blew it out about every 2 weeks. The problem with a smoker is that the tar cakes on everything and even though blowing the dust out helps a lot, the tar still coats everything.

[natewildes]

Sounds like a new organization to me...
"Overclockers Against Smoking"
motto: 'to help stop computer suffocating'
you KNOW smoking is bad when even your computer can't breathe ;)

[Janus67]

doesn't alienware cover this type of stuff in their policies?

[thideras]

doesn't alienware cover this type of stuff in their policies?


Well, not sure. But if they did, it would cost you so much that it would not be worth it.

[Gel214th]

doesn't alienware cover this type of stuff in their policies?

You're free to ship the computer back to them along with the new cards etc. that you want to upgrade, or you can ask them to source the new cards.

Then they charge you for labour, keep it for up to a month, and then ship it back to you.

I've also read several horror stories on the net about people getting their Alienwares back from the depot with scratches on the case, cracks and other problems that weren't there when they sent it in. And I don't think that Alienware is liable for that under their policies. So...even sending it into Alienware themselves is a risk.

So....what's the point of that? :)

[wa77ss]

Something about dust just screams stability to me....I love it! :D


New PC FTW