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should i buy a complete kit or build one up?

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LeAd_Poisoning

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
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top gear
Should i buy a complete watercooling set or build one up. Which offers the best performance and by how much? which one is cheaper?

for complete kits, im considering the Thermaltake 745 and the Swiftech H20 Ultra

im stuck at 1.475v on my Opty, i want to run 1.6 to make 3ghz+. Air cooling wont let me do that
 
I'd suggest reading up on watercooling in depth and designing your own system based entirely on your system. As for parts retailers, I'd recommend Dtek Customs or Danger Den. They'll have most of what you'd want to make a good water cooling system.
 
stay away from kits is what is commonly suggested, its often cheaper, and better if you custom build something, so basically just choose the parts that are right for you. If id have to choose between those two, I'd choose the swiftech because their kits are better constructed. If your heart is stuck on "kits" I'd go with one from Petra's tech shop, or Danger den. Then again thats just me, and someone else will tell you different.

Petra's "kits" http://www.petrastechshop.com/wacoki.html
DD "kits" http://www.dangerden.com/store/home.php?cat=65

hope that helps. KC
 
The biggest advantage of going the custom route is that the knowledge you gain researching your parts will come in handy during the build. Either route you would want more information going into your first time than you would get with a set of simple instructions from a kit (at least I sure as heck would). IMHO there is too big of a temptation with the kits to just assume you don't need to do your homework.

Add on top of that the fact that with a few notable exceptions, kits don't perform up to their cost and it is an easy choice ;)
 
i might just buy all the parts seperately, so i need a:

cpu block
some tubing
pump
radiator
some fans

any recommendations for my Opteron 165, DFI Ultra D setup?
 
Personally, the kits from Petra's are very well contructed. They come with the standard parts for WCing. The Apogee WB a great performer, MCP655/D5 pump is as well an amazing pump. For the price, you can't go wrong with this kit.

http://www.petrastechshop.com/pecoba.html


This kit is also a good choice. Comes with the MCP355 + top, DTEK Fuzion, and you can select a 120.3 rad for $14 more if you want the extra cooling.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/pecoel.html
 
as long as i get components all conforming to the same tube diameters, can i just get any pump, any radiator, any reservoir and any socket 939 compatable cooling block
 
yes, as long as all the parts have the same barb size.

Most people choose 1/2'' tube size, but others 3/8''. It is recommended that you stay away from 1/4'' if your trying to do a high performance setup.

there are some parts that you want to stay away from but generally Swiftech,Danger Den, and EK parts are all good


KC
 
stay away from thermaltake!!!

although i have a pre-built system and it keeps my p4 at 10% overclock at about 27.6 to 30.0 degress celcisus depending on the ambient temps and i have never seen it go above 37.7C

it probably wouldnt be powerfull enough for your system here is the link

http://www.kingwin.com/as3000.asp

not sure if it is 939 compatible
just thought id put in my two cents

i love it and dont regret it one bit!!! but just remember to use arctic 5 and some different antifreeze for a car parts store

and p.s. i have it mounted internally in 2 5.25 bays
 
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killercanadian said:
yes, as long as all the parts have the same barb size.

Most people choose 1/2'' tube size, but others 3/8''. It is recommended that you stay away from 1/4'' if your trying to do a high performance setup.

there are some parts that you want to stay away from but generally Swiftech,Danger Den, and EK parts are all good


KC

ive only seen tube diameters in mm? barb size?
 
You must be in Europe then, the diameter your looking to stay away from is 6mm( I think...my conversion skills suck) Ok Tube size is 9mm and 12mm (once again,my conversion skills suck) same for the barbs.

KC

yes my post is confusing. its 23:30 here and I just got of work.
 
It may seem that kits are the way to go for your first WC build, but in reality, buying a kit provides you with very little help. With a kit, you can count on all the barbs and tubing having the same diameter, but if you couldn't manage that on your own, you'd be better off never opening your case. And it really does help to have a clue when it's time to put things together. Even if you get a kit, you'll have to adapt it to your particular case, and there will be choices to make.

You might think that with a kit you'll have components selected by experts and that's true to a certain extent, but they are designing a kit that will work well enough for a many people. The result is usually the equivalent of white walls and beige carpet with vanilla ice cream in the fridge and one size fits nobody sweats in the closet. If you design your own system, OTOH, you can select components to meet your specific goals with all the idiosyncrasies of your case, hardware, and dwelling in mind. If after you've done that, you realize that a particular kit has all the things you want and will save you fifteen bucks over buying them individually, then go ahead and buy it. You'll understand what you're doing a lot better than you would if you'd just ordered a kit trusting the vendor's marketspeak to guide you.

And speaking of that, stay far away from Thermaltake until you really know what you're doing. A few of their products are useful, but many are outdated, of very poor quality, or just not designed for the kind of performance most of us are looking for. Some of their stuff seems to have been designed with marketability to the ignorant as the primary goal, and the result is flatly ridiculous to anyone who knows what they're doing. Thermaltakes product pages, OTOH, hype everything as being "excellent", "second to none", etc.

I suggest you start by thinking about exactly what you want out of this build. High performance, small size, and extreme quiet are all possible, but you can only max out two of those attributes in any system. Set your priorities first, then figure out what parts will be best and what will fit into your budget. If you get stuck, start a thread on this forum and people will gladly advise you. And feel free to run your final plan past the good folks here before ordering.
 
Otter said:
[...] High performance, small size, and extreme quiet are all possible, but you can only max out two of those attributes in any system...

Okay, I've been wondering this for a while now as I've wandered the forums...

A quiet/small wc loop for a midtower? possible? if so... point me in that parts-direction. :D appreciate it.
 
lead, £200 will buy a heck of allot of water cooling.


ThermoChill PA120.3 120mm Triple Radiator £48.50 ex VAT
Danger Den DDC 12 Volt Rev2 Pump £47.49 ex VAT
Swiftech MCRES Micro Reservoir £9.99 ex VAT
Swiftech Apogee GT Extreme Performance CPU Water Block £31.95 ex VAT
Tygon R3603 Tubing 1/2" ID 3/4" OD (Per Foot) £1.79 ex VAT
Zalman ZM-F3 120mm Silent Case Fan £5.49 ex VAT x3

the parts i listed are some of the best available, and its still under £200

its not terribly difficult to build a damn good w/c system for that kind of money.

*edit* could not find Swiftech Rad box on Thecoolingshop.com so you will still need one of those depending on your case.

KC
 
LeAd_Poisoning said:
Im looking for maximum performance. I might just buy a kit to begin with and modify it over time with new radiators, blocks and pumps etc. I was thinking the Swiftech H20

http://www.thecoolingshop.com/product_info.php/cPath/33_34/products_id/2188

any thoughts?

what is the best kit out there in the sub £200 ($400US) range?

Just to chime in, I bought this kit about a year ago and so far it has been on a 3700+ San Diego @ 2.9GHz and is currently on my Opteron 165 @ 2.8GHz.

This was (and still is) one of the best kits out there you can buy. When I bought it the whole thing cost me about $250.

It kept the San Diego cool at 32C idle and loaded up to about 36-40C max.

Now on the Opteron which is dual core with 2MB L2 cache so it's a hot chip. Overclocked to 2.8GHz with 1.45vcore it idles around 38C and I've never seen a load temp higher than 45C. It's usually around 42-43C when gaming.

Those are pretty respectable temps for a "kit" system. It uses the 1/2" barbs with 7/16ths ID tubing. Which is great for bending the crap out of and staying kink free.

Anywho, I think if you really want a kit, this is the one to get. It does not disappoint.
 
LeAd_Poisoning said:
Im looking for maximum performance. I might just buy a kit to begin with and modify it over time with new radiators, blocks and pumps etc. I was thinking the Swiftech H20

http://www.thecoolingshop.com/product_info.php/cPath/33_34/products_id/2188
That kit looks like a good starting point. If you're looking for maximum performance, I'd suggest getting a triple rad and three strong fans (can't advise you beyond that on the fans because i like things quiet). You might also want to upgrade the CPU block to a Fuzion, Apogee GT, or Storm, depending on the size of your CPU die, how far you expect to overvolt, and whose gueses you believe about what is the best block for your system. I doubt the Apogee GTX is worth a major price bump over the GT, but if you like the fact that it looks vaguely like a valve cover far an aluminum sports car engine, go for it.

Edit: The Petra's kit looks pretty good too. About the same thing except you already have the CPU block upgrade.
 
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crumpet said:
Okay, I've been wondering this for a while now as I've wandered the forums...

A quiet/small wc loop for a midtower? possible? if so... point me in that parts-direction. :D appreciate it.
radiator:
1 fan, internal: Thermochill PA160
2 fans = quieter, internal mount possible (measure your case and check against the rad specs): Swiftech MCP220, or Coolingworks CoolRad-32T, or Thermochill PA120.2
3 fans = even quieter, but you'll probably have to mount above the case with standoffs or cut out most of the floor: MCP320, or CoolRad-32T, or PA120.3

Here silence is at war with small size, but if you don't need high performance, any of the above radiators will work. I'd try to find room for at least the double rad, though, as it will allow you to run the fans at lower RPM.

Fan(s): Yate Loon D12SL-12. With the PA160, any rad in floor and fans in the top of the case, or a DIY shroud, you might try the 140mm D14SL-12 (not available in the US yet). You could also use the D14SM-12, but you'll have to run it at very low voltage.

Pump: DDC-1/MCP-350 with Alphacool or Petra's top or Robotech's DIY mod.
http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-01.html
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?p=1440226

Or the DDC-2, which is slightly louder and higher in pitch but has enough performance that you could stay with the stock top. Note that these appear to be basically the same pump now, and by making one solder bridge the DDC-1 becomes a DDC-2, or by breaking the bridge the DDC-2 becomes a DDC-1.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=5008937#post5008937

I'd hold off with any irreversible pump mods until you know for sure you've got a good one. Rumor has it there was a bad batch of the usually very reliable DDC's. However, anecdotal evidence and other rumors point the finger at the aftermarket tops.

CPU block: Swiftech Storm, Fuzion, or Apogee GT/GTX.

GPU block: Danger Den Maze4. Maze5 or Swiftech MCW60 will work well too.

Have fun. :)
 
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