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I'd be surprised if he gets many replies as it is, superficially anyway, considered immoral on this forum to send back something you broke.
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Warranty on a Broken CPU
- Thread starter Skeen
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hhhhmmm seems clear to me that amd is talking about the ability to verify oc'ing will be available on the quads, but not on the current duals ... but maybe im misreading something
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Hazaro said:
True, but lots of people feel they are entitled to RMA something even if they clearly broke it....
I will never understand that....if you broke it, you bought it....
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While I agree 100% that overclocking should void a warranty, I also believe that overclocking helps push the sales of CPUs. I may be off, but I seriously doubt that many of AMDs releases would have taken off like they did without their overclocking reputations. The first Intel Celerons are a good example. Their sales skyrocketed at first release because everyone was overclocking them and getting better performance than Pentiums that were almost twice the price.
In any case, I wonder just what goes through the minds of the AMD board directors.
Meeting 1
Suite 1: We have a fanboy problem. They are increasing our sales with their undying devotion. Heck...we just passed Intel in sales what do we do?
Suite 2: Lets snag OEMs like Dell and diminish our inventory. They cant push what they can't buy. What few procs that make it distributors will be price gouged and they wont be able to afford them.
Meeting 2
Suite 1: Well we got Dell. Intel is now back on top and has introduced Conroes which we cant compete against. We still have a few fanboys out there waving our banner and are sure we have a better proc in our top-secret labs.
Suite 2: Lets buy ATI. That should drain our funds and stall our development. That should force them to go Intel.
Meeting 3
Suite 1: There are still some hard-core fanboys out there. Is there any way we can shake them?
Suite 2: Lets discourage overclocking further! If there is no overclocking, we will never catch up with Intel. That should finally crush those fanboys spirits!
In any case, I wonder just what goes through the minds of the AMD board directors.
Meeting 1
Suite 1: We have a fanboy problem. They are increasing our sales with their undying devotion. Heck...we just passed Intel in sales what do we do?
Suite 2: Lets snag OEMs like Dell and diminish our inventory. They cant push what they can't buy. What few procs that make it distributors will be price gouged and they wont be able to afford them.
Meeting 2
Suite 1: Well we got Dell. Intel is now back on top and has introduced Conroes which we cant compete against. We still have a few fanboys out there waving our banner and are sure we have a better proc in our top-secret labs.
Suite 2: Lets buy ATI. That should drain our funds and stall our development. That should force them to go Intel.
Meeting 3
Suite 1: There are still some hard-core fanboys out there. Is there any way we can shake them?
Suite 2: Lets discourage overclocking further! If there is no overclocking, we will never catch up with Intel. That should finally crush those fanboys spirits!
The whole idea seems a little fishy. Can they detect whether you've overclocked a chip? Probably. Will they? Doubtful. As has been said on other boards, it's largely a waste of time and/or resources. Even still, if Intel/AMD has a way of doing this (other than seeing a physically fried chip), then I would think some well-motivated programmer could figure out where in the chip this information is stored and would promptly post an app to read this info.
My guess is that stories like this are started by people who RMA melted silicon in hopes of getting a sparkling new chip. Other than physical signs, I highly doubt Intel (and probably AMD too) is scrutinizing every RMA'd chip that comes back to them. If someone sent in an entire tray, that would be different.
As for the whole "if you use anything but the stock heatsink, it will void your warranty" argument: please explain the existence of OEM CPU's. That argument doesn't hold water and is really not relevant to this issue.
So unless you're sending back lapped, melted or otherwise scarred CPU's, I would be surprised if you would be denied an RMA. Whether it's "right" or not can be left for another discussion.
My guess is that stories like this are started by people who RMA melted silicon in hopes of getting a sparkling new chip. Other than physical signs, I highly doubt Intel (and probably AMD too) is scrutinizing every RMA'd chip that comes back to them. If someone sent in an entire tray, that would be different.
As for the whole "if you use anything but the stock heatsink, it will void your warranty" argument: please explain the existence of OEM CPU's. That argument doesn't hold water and is really not relevant to this issue.
So unless you're sending back lapped, melted or otherwise scarred CPU's, I would be surprised if you would be denied an RMA. Whether it's "right" or not can be left for another discussion.
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Once upon a time (a long long while ago) I bought a graphics card, A Geforce 2 MX 200 from a certain UK store. It didn't work properly (It crashed under any 3D load whatsoever). I returned it to the store and they 'tested' it, by which I mean they put it in a PC and booted it without issue. I was told that the card was fine and despite my protests (I was only 16 at the time, and not such an awkward sod as I am now) they wouldn't replace it. So I took it home, cooked it in the microwave oven for a short time and returned it a few weeks later.
Now I was wondering how these companies might go about detecting whether these chips had been overclocked. Surely if an item is RMA'd and turns out to be totally electronically fried it is likely to have buggered up any detection mechanism.
Now I was wondering how these companies might go about detecting whether these chips had been overclocked. Surely if an item is RMA'd and turns out to be totally electronically fried it is likely to have buggered up any detection mechanism.
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ROMAD said:
You know that's a valid point, stores can probably fingerprint you if you steal a candy bar, but it's a giant waste of resources. Given that 100% of the people I know just leave their dead computers out or throw them away [
] I highly doubt both Intel and AMD get hardly any returns.
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Another good point. The most likely way to detect overclocking would be by having some sort of electronic monitoring system. -Which would probably fry along with a chip.
Of course, it could be "black box" style, and keep a record of the data that would be recoverable afterwards. If it was "black box" style though, wouldn't that require a good deal of storage? Either that or it would have to write over the data each boot. But are they willing to go to that much effort anyway?
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FeralCom said:
That was a great read!!!! Very true though.
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I thought it was always understood that overclocking voided the CPU's warranty? I really don't care if they can tell a chip has been overclocked, its immoral to return it anyway. If you don't do stupid levels of overvolting, the chance of killing a CPU is minimal, and its a risk I'm willing to take.
Now there are chips were both Intel and AMD openly support overclocking (ie Extreme Edition and FX series), and in those cases it would be shady for them not to retain the warranty.
I think they should do it like the memory manufacturers do and warranty the chips up to a certain voltage.
Now there are chips were both Intel and AMD openly support overclocking (ie Extreme Edition and FX series), and in those cases it would be shady for them not to retain the warranty.
I think they should do it like the memory manufacturers do and warranty the chips up to a certain voltage.
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Ok, here's a kicker. What about motherboards that auto-overclock for you? Do we loose our $500 CPU because brand X set's their boards a little higher to win in the benchmarks?
For example, my ASrock 939 Dual ran at the correct FSB of exactly 200 by default. The Asus A8N I replaced it with ran FSB at 201 even though BIOS was set to 200. Sure, that's only 11MHz with an x11 multiplier, but is that enough for a CPU vender to detect and deny an RMA? I'm not pleased that Asus feels they need an edge in the benchmarks, but up till now it was just an ethical daydream.
BTW, AMD can only do this with PLL CPUs. In other words, K10s
For example, my ASrock 939 Dual ran at the correct FSB of exactly 200 by default. The Asus A8N I replaced it with ran FSB at 201 even though BIOS was set to 200. Sure, that's only 11MHz with an x11 multiplier, but is that enough for a CPU vender to detect and deny an RMA? I'm not pleased that Asus feels they need an edge in the benchmarks, but up till now it was just an ethical daydream.
BTW, AMD can only do this with PLL CPUs. In other words, K10s
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Mr. Perfect said:
If they do deny warranties due to overclocking detection I don't think they will do it for a 10mhz oc, probably something like a couple hundred mhz or more than .1V overvoltage, anything else can be attributed to fluctuations in the ClockGen or VRM circuitry. Also $500 is FX/Extreme Edition territory (at least it should be), and those chips are warranted even in cases of overclocking I believe.
Exactly, so why should it matter that they now have ways to keep us honest. I guess if there are no police present, its fine to steal?
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When I think back, I would have to say that AMD has, at times, taken further steps to discourage OCing than Intel. Though I have never OCed an Intel, I don't recall reading about Intel users having to physically alter the chip to unlock OCing capabilities.
However, AMD would usually do this when they had a nice lead in the speed arena. As Intel caught up, Ocing would become easier.
Also, overclocking is a mainstream marketing ploy today. Companies are more than happy to slap “Overclocked”, “OC”, “Extreme” or whatever on the box to get you to buy. I wouldn't be too shocked if an OEM like Dell didn't slap the old “Turbo” button on a expensive gaming rig.
Maybe the K10s will have to be physically altered to OC. Maybe they want to push their OC line of procs. I dunno, but at this time I think it is dumb idea to further discourage AMD users from giving other people reasons to buy AMD.
However, AMD would usually do this when they had a nice lead in the speed arena. As Intel caught up, Ocing would become easier.
Also, overclocking is a mainstream marketing ploy today. Companies are more than happy to slap “Overclocked”, “OC”, “Extreme” or whatever on the box to get you to buy. I wouldn't be too shocked if an OEM like Dell didn't slap the old “Turbo” button on a expensive gaming rig.
Maybe the K10s will have to be physically altered to OC. Maybe they want to push their OC line of procs. I dunno, but at this time I think it is dumb idea to further discourage AMD users from giving other people reasons to buy AMD.
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When have AMD chips ever been required to be physically altered just to overclock? FSB overclocking has never required any sort of modification.
Yes AMD locked the multipliers in the Athlon days, but Intel chips had been multiplier locked for years prior (since the Pentium II era, and their locks were irreversible).
Yes AMD locked the multipliers in the Athlon days, but Intel chips had been multiplier locked for years prior (since the Pentium II era, and their locks were irreversible).
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$500 is what an Opty 175 cost last April. Of course that was before the prices crashed down to reasonable levels a couple months later... Now a $500 CPU is a Q6600. FXs and Extremes are closer to $1000.
There are also boards who will do a 10% OC on the CPU when they detect a high CPU load(I think it's Asus boards?). If someone voids a warranty themselves, that's their choice, but I'd hate to think that an auto-overclocking board would void someones warranty without them realizing it until their RMA is rejected.
Now a $500 CPU is a Q6600. FXs and Extremes are closer to $1000.There are also boards who will do a 10% OC on the CPU when they detect a high CPU load(I think it's Asus boards?). If someone voids a warranty themselves, that's their choice, but I'd hate to think that an auto-overclocking board would void someones warranty without them realizing it until their RMA is rejected.
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So this means, intel's penryn chip which has DAT or dynamic acceleration technology, will?
A; Not ship with a warranty at all.
B; Ship with a five year warranty that voids once the retail box is opened.
C; Ship with a five year warranty that they can just refuse to honor because
your CPU has been overclocked.
A; Not ship with a warranty at all.
B; Ship with a five year warranty that voids once the retail box is opened.
C; Ship with a five year warranty that they can just refuse to honor because
your CPU has been overclocked.
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