Airflow...

[groovewerx]

whats the best fan setup and why?

[Ridenow]

There is no "best". Every case and every setup is different. There are to many variables for us to calculate something like that. Most of us just keep trying things and see if they lower the temperature.

Our "average" setup has a quality heatsink and fan (HSF) on the processor, a few fans blowing air into the case in the bottom front and a few blowing out in the top.

[The Doors]

Hi groovewerx, welcome to the Forum,
I suppose that you are speaking of the case airflow, so the best setting for me, is to use 4x80mm fans rated for 40-50Cfm: 2 for the intake, the first one in the front/low & the other one on the left panel of case, that sucks fresh air onto the Pci/AGP slots, and the other two for the exhaust, one on the up/back & the last one on the upper cover of case, both that blows out the hot air to avoid possible restagnate of hot air into the case, coz the hot air is more light than the cool air and tend to go up.

I hope it helps you ;)

[groovewerx]

ok, i'll ask a different question with detail...

in a mid tower:

warm air rises so the cool air must be at the bottom right?

what would be the most efficient way to route the cool air over the heat sources and out of the case with fans?

...eg. if i have a 120mm intake in the case floor, a 92mm intake in the panel; over the 120mm; aimed at the vga & proc and a psu with i/o fans...where should i mount an exaust fan, and what size should it be? -is that a good routing?

[groovewerx]

thanks for the welcome...i see you answered the question before i could ask it...

[Ridenow]

Ok. It is a good idea to have about the same amount of air going out as in. I think you have the right idea. A large 120mm or 2 80-90mm fans near or on the top of the case should work fine.

[The Doors]

You're welcome ;)
Yes, you can use 2x120mm fans too (one for the intake & 1 for the exhaust), but remember that generally the air sucked into the case must be the same of the air blowed out, and to avoid too much dust into the case, is better to sucks just a little bit of more air (positive pressure) and always use fans filters ;)

P.S. sorry Ridenow, I was writing during your replys.

[groovewerx]

ok...i see...cfm is important. so if you had to chose...would you have more intake than exaust? or would pressure be a problem?

[The Doors]

You are right, it's enough to use a fan for the intake more stronger than the other for the exhaust, but not too much!

[groovewerx]

ok! i'm on the right track...so far...

i'm thinking of using air conditioning filter material as intake filters...is there a better way to decrease dust?

[Ridenow]

Originally posted by groovewerx
ok! i'm on the right track...so far...

i'm thinking of using air conditioning filter material as intake filters...is there a better way to decrease dust?
That works, as does dryer sheets.

[groovewerx]

cool...thanks for the help

[Ridenow]

Originally posted by The Doors
P.S. sorry Ridenow, I was writing during your replys.

LOL! I was doing the same. It almost looks like we are mobbing the new guy here. It also looks like we are saying about the same things, that is reassuring.

[The Doors]

It's for sure much better than my solution: I've used a phiber-glass mosquito-curtain :p

P.S. you say right Ridenow :p it's really reassuring, and confirms that is the right way to go :)

[groovewerx]

if i put an exaust fan on top...will it impact the psu intake that sits next to it?

[adamtekh]

the best way for air flow is the diangal flow , most cases have intake lower front exaust , top back , thats where u want the most air flow , and a moderat cfm on the top panel , but less then your others

this way more air is directed over the cpu , or @ least in theroy:eh?:

[groovewerx]

Originally posted by adamtekh
most cases have intake lower front exaust...

?


do you mean its better to bring it in from the lwr front and route it to the upper rear?

[adamtekh]

yes , that is how most cases r designed. its for a reason

[Kato]

yea thats what i did too....i have 2 120mm(86 cfm each) for intake at the front-bottom, then 1 120mm(103 cfm) on the back-top for exaust. along with this, i also have 1 80mm right behind the cpu and 1 slot blower at the pci for exaust too. at this setup, your airflow from fans won't "fight" each others, which will create dead spot in your case....you always trying to direct the cool air fromthe outside, pick up the hot air created from components, then exaust them.

:D

[Kato]

also if your HSF is those kind with the case fan mounting on the HS, you can buy a connector to mount a 80mm or even 120mm fan on the HS, then use a fan duct to connect the fan to the left panel...so the hsf will have the cool air outside the case to blow on the HS, instead of using warmer air inside the case.

this is what i'm planning to do when i get a socket A cpu, do you guys think this is a good idea?:D

[groovewerx]

tell me more about fan ducts...
show me some pics if you can...

mine are socket370

[Kato]

sorry groovewerx, didn't have time to reply you asap :D

Fan ducts are designed to allow maximum front intake through the front of the case bezel. After the intake hole is cut the fan duct dresses up hole in case it just isn't perfect. The fan duct is meant to be cut to the desired depth and is made out of plastic. Fan ducts also work well for side panel blow holes.

check out the pic....

or go to www.bigfootcomputers.com

[DodgeViper]

If you are using FANS to cool your computer, the ambient temps of the environment in which your computer sits in controls the HSF/CASE cooling temps. Typically my computer case/cpu temps are in the 27/45c temps. Below you will see the highs, lows, and current temps.

What I did to get my temps into the 18/35c was to open the backdoor of our home when the temps outside were about 5c. Once the temps in the home had lowered both case and cpu temps dropped 9/10c which is a great deal. The current temps if you look are starting to climb because I had closed the door.

You can place the best HS with blowholes and side holes cut into your case, but unless you get the ambient temps down in the area of the computer don’t expect to see large gains in temp drops. You can place any amount of fans in a case, but your not going to drop the case temp below the ambient temp within your home. Ambient temps have a direct relationship to case/cpu temps.

Now if you have a stock case with front and rear fans you can improve your temps within the case with a side hole and blowhole, but your not going to get lower than the ambient temps.

The proof is below.

[dreadlord79]

Or you could do like I'm planning to do.:D This might sound alittle extreme but in my house we have 4 comps. running (2-1.4 AMD Athlon, 1-800 AMD Duron and 1-400 PII; only for the gateway;) and the temps in the room are hotter than in the rest of the house; go figure:rolleyes:; So I am panning on putting an air conditioner in the room, something small like 14,000-18,000 so the room stays extra cool; thus lowering the ambeint room temp.
Just a thought.

[DodgeViper]

Having A/C is not extreme. Our computer systems room at work has AC and the temps in that room are 67 degrees. The point I was making is you can lower your temps by added fans, heatsinks and improve the temps on a stock case, but you will never go below ambient temps without the help of either chilling the air going into the case.

This is why I have yet to spend money on a water system. If you’re cooling the water radiator with ambient air temps what are you gaining?

I have a small water cooler that I am going to turn into a small A/C. What I am going to do is pump chilled water through a small radiator mounted on the back of the case, which will have a 120mm fan blowing across the coils into the computer case. I will be able to control the water temps with the water temp control probe. By do this I can balance the temps inside the case and not have condensation forming. My plan is to place the cooler in my workshop, which is near my computer room, and run a supply and return water lines to the radiator. I have included photos of the water cooler.

http://teamajo.com/BMX_LINKS/FIREWALL/P0001032.jpg

http://teamajo.com/BMX_LINKS/FIREWALL/P0001034.jpg

http://teamajo.com/BMX_LINKS/FIREWALL/P0001035.jpg

[groovewerx]

wont condensation be a problem?

[DodgeViper]

It really depends on the dew point. You can lower the dew point within your case using this product. It’s the same product that camera or electronic gear is shipped with. Typically seen as little bags that feel like silica.



DRIERITE desiccants are made from the naturally occurring mineral, gypsum (Calcium Sulfate), and are available in several varieties designed to solve all types of drying problems. DRIERITE is an all purpose drying agent for the efficient and rapid drying of air, industrial gases, refrigerants, organic liquids and solids. It is used to maintain a dry atmosphere in storage spaces, vaults, commercial packages, and other enclosures; and for the protection of hygroscopic materials or materials subject to mildew, corrosion, rust, or other deterioration caused by high humidity.

Forms of Drierite
The granular forms of DRIERITE are available in sizes ranging from powder to 4 mesh ( 1 /4 inch granules) weighing approximately 65 pounds per cubic foot, (60 pounds per cubic foot for 200 mesh powder.) The powder is very well suited for removing the last traces of moisture from organic liquids and as an additive in polymer formulations. The most popular granule sizes are 200 mesh, 20-40 mesh, 10-20 mesh, 8 mesh, 6 mesh, and 4 mesh granules. (“Mesh” means the number of granules per inch.)

Efficiency
The moisture remaining in gases dried with DRIERITE at 25° - 30° C is 0.005 mg./liter, (data verified by the National Bureau of Standards). Air is dried to a dew point of -100° F. Organic liquids are dried to the low ppm range. There is little change in efficiency at temperatures up to 100° C.Drierite DESICCANTS

Capacity
For the drying of liquids, DRIERITE instantly absorbs 6.6 weight percent water by chemical action, creating the hemihydrate of calcium sulfate. For the drying of gases, DRIERITE has a water capacity of 10 to 14 weight percent. This increased capacity is due to combined chemical and capillary action. DRIERITE granules have 38 percent pore space volume, which accounts for the additional capacity. Above 6.6 percent, the capacity varies inversely with temperature and directly with pressure and the partial pressure of water vapor.

[groovewerx]

so can it be embedded in dynamat? if so, at what density?

[DodgeViper]

so can it be embedded in dynamat? if so, at what density?

I can't answer this question.

[dreadlord79]

I finally did my first really serious mod last night with an accual goal in mind. I put a 5,400rpm 60mm fan in the left side of my case right below the HSF and a 4,200rpm 60mm fan in the top of the case. After I got all of this done and got it all put back together, I ran my system doing web surfing and some other things that needed to be done and my temps on CPU was only 100degrees F! Before it had been running any where from 105 F to 111 F. This just goes to show that it doesn't take alot to get so results.

[DodgeViper]

I bet it sounds like a hurricane though. I did the same thing. I have 3-50cfm 80mm fans at 4200 rpm. This is the price you pay to lower the CPU temps within the case.

[The Doors]

Many compliments ;)
you've just got a great result, at this point, probably, you need to cut off the noise with the adesive panel made by Dynamat or Noise Killer :)

[dreadlord79]

Acually, the noise did not increase over that of the Delta on my Vantec HSF!? I am thinking about putting something over the inlet at least so the dust won't be a problem. I am really sure though that I have positive pressure inside of my case and I saw somewhere that this will also keep dust at bay; is that true?
Can I put something over the top fan to quite the noise or would that impact air flow?

[groovewerx]

i just spent $7 and solved my dual cpu cooling problem...

i went to home depot with my two rear 80mm fans and found a $5 shop-vac attachment that covers both. it has a 2"x45deg spout that empties ambient air over both cpus. sandwiched between the fans and the nozzle is a piece of that $2 a/c filter material. the core temps have dropped 9C and i can barely hear those rear fans and as a bonus...now i can oc these 700's to 933's with no sweat...

<pats himself on back then sparks a bowl in celebration>

[lennytiger]

There are many factors to consider, possitive/negative pressure, even airflow, same types of fans, same amount of air flow measured in CFM (Cubic Feet Per Minute). So Sticking 500CFM of air through your case would cool but would it be practical, no, would it be quiet, no, would you do it, no!!!


So you want a reasonable amount of air going through the case in all the right places that generate heat:

Video Cards
CPU's
Hard Drives (especially 7000RPM+ drives)
and fast cd/dvd rom drives.


You normally have a fan on you video card anyway, and always a fan and heatsink over you cpu, hard drives and cd/dvd drives should have a fan blowing the hot air away from them, if they are in constant use.

But if these fans on your graphics card and cpu only receive hot air that can't escape or doesn't have any new cool air coming in the temp of things in the case will normally rise.

So we take in to account that hot air rises so we install a fan to suck air out of the case at the top of the case.

We also know that if heat rises to the top of the case the cool air must be at the bottom of it, right???

So this cold air should be used effectively in cooling the components that make heat, eg CPU and graphics...

So we install a fan at the bottom of the case to blow air up, and also a fan to take in new air in...

Also fans modded to the side of the case sucking air on to "hotspots" generally help as well particularly one over the graphics card and processor.

Hope this helps ya,

Cheers Lenny

[groovewerx]

<in the werd of homer simpson...DOH!>:D

nah...i just forgot to mention the two 92mm fans in the floor and ceiling, and my 120mm in the lwr front with a slick duct through the bezel i put in last night. <---this case is hella quiet compared to the way it was with only stock fans...

i don't have any documented evidence like you guys, but i'm sure <quickly crosses fingers> everything is cool.

about those mini fans...which quiet one is best for my ati radeon ve? i'm not a gamer but i know it heats up running these audio and dv programs.

time for dynamat or carpet pad?

[dreadlord79]

I just put up a link on here asking about this same thing Groove. THe results seem to be that the Crystal Orb is the best because it has a copper core and base plate so that is what I am going with.

[The Doors]

Originally posted by groovewerx
<in the werd of homer simpson...DOH!>:D
nah...i just forgot to mention the two 92mm fans in the floor and ceiling, and my 120mm in the lwr front with a slick duct through the bezel i put in last night. <---this case is hella quiet compared to the way it was with only stock fans...
i don't have any documented evidence like you guys, but i'm sure <quickly crosses fingers> everything is cool.
about those mini fans...which quiet one is best for my ati radeon ve? i'm not a gamer but i know it heats up running these audio and dv programs.
time for dynamat or carpet pad?
Well, to check the temps you have to go with MotherBoardMonitor that you can found here (http://mbm.livewiredev.com/) ;) and about the Vid card, I agree with dreadlord79, Crystal Orb & blue Orb are good ways to go.

[groovewerx]

if after a month i want to change the install, how do i safely remove the actic silver adhesive?

[The Doors]

I suppose there's a remover for AS adhesive, but I don't know more about, coz I've always used AS II thermal paste (in the middle) & two little point of Superglue (in the corners) to fix the heatsink on the vid card, like on the NorthBridge too.
To remove the HS is very simple, put the card into an antistatic bag, and into the freezer for 10Min, no more, so twist the HeatSink :) but take care to the condensation! wait untill it's gone ;)

[groovewerx]

thanks...