XP2000/2100 Here! January :)

[OC-Master]

XP2000 and XP2#00 will be here to cream the Northwood 2200. The following below was from my local bestcom store which takes effect late January 2002.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All prices can change without notice, and all products will be prestocked prior to: January 28th, 2002

-Prices quoted are highest possible values as of: January 28th, 2002. Prices will without a doubt be lower than quoted in most cases.

------------------------------
UPDATE: well, well, it appears bestcom has changed it's projected flyer to erase the XP2100 processor. I think, AMD has misjudged the maximum potential the Palamino which being 1667MHz, thou there XP1900+ can do 1733MHz on some systems with default voltage. Something is strange here. Also, on the main page, overclockers.com, they have a link to a very nice article explaing the future of the Athlon processor.

>- Dual SocketA ATX DDR ATA100 133FSB
>Tyan S2460 Tiger MP AMD ................ $379
>
>- SocketA ATX DDR ATA100 133FSB
>ABit KR7A RAID AMD (XP2100 Cert!).......... $299
>ABit KG7 RAID AMD (XP2100 Cert!)......... $269 S> $249
>ABit KG7 AMD (XP2100 Cert!)............ $245 S> $229
>Asus A7M266 AMD ........................ $269 S> $229
>Asus A7A266 DDR/SDR ALi ................ $229
>Asus A7V266E Via KT266A ................ $299 N
>Asus A7V266 Via KT266 .................. $249
>Gigabyte GA-7DXR AMD ................... $219
>Gigabyte GA-7VTXE Via KT266A (XP2100 Cert!).. $179 N
>Gigabyte GA-7VTXH Via KT266A (XP2100 Cert!).. $209
>MicroStar K7N420 Pro nForce (XP2100 Cert!).. $319 N
>MicroStar K7T Pro2-RU Via KT266A ....... $257
>MicroStar K7T Pro2 Via KT266A .......... $209
>Soyo K7ADA ALi ......................... $179 S> $159
>Soyo K7V DRAGON Plus Via KT266A (XP2100 Cert!).. $299
>
>- Skt A Via KT133A chipset ATX ATA100 133FSB
>ABit KT7A RAID ......................... $229
>Asus A7V133 ............................ $199
>MicroStar K7T Turbo LE Audio ........... $NoS
>MicroStar K7T Turbo Audio .............. $149
>PC Partner K133AASA-B998 Audio ......... $119 S> $109
>Soyo K7VTA Pro Audio ................... $159
>
>- Skt A Via KT133 chipset ATX ATA100 100FSB
>MicroStar K7T Master S Ultra160 ........ $249
>
>- Super 7, 100MHz Bus, AGP
>PC Partner MVP4MS7-897 MATX ............ $119
>Soyo 5EMA Pro ATX ...................... $139
>Soya 5EH5 AT ........................... $135
>
>
>-- CPUs
>Pentium 4 2200 512KB (N) Box S478 ........ $839
>Pentium 4 2000 512KB (N) Box S478 ........ $769
>Pentium 4 2000 Box S478 ................ $709
>Pentium 4 1900 Box S478 ................ $529
>Pentium 4 1800 Box S478 ................ $439
>Pentium 4 1700 Box S478 ................ $379
>Pentium 4 1600 Box S478 ................ $312
>Pentium 4 1500 Box S478 ................ $269
>Pentium 4 2000 Box S423 ................ $769
>Pentium 4 1900 Box S423 ................ $525
>Pentium 4 1800 Box S423 ................ $436
>Pentium 4 1700 Box S423 ................ $365
>Pentium 4 1600 Box S423 ................ $312
>Pentium 4 1500 Box S423 ................ $265
>Pentium 4 1400 Box S423 ................ $229
>Pentium III 133FSB 512K FCPGA 1333 Box . $649
>Pentium III 133FSB 512K FCPGA 1266 Box . $551
>Pentium III 133FSB 512K FCPGA 1133 Box . $459
>Pentium III 133FSB 256K FCPGA 1200 Box . $465
>Pentium III 133FSB 256K FCPGA 1133 Box . $379
>Pentium III 133FSB 256K FCPGA 1000 Box . $325
>Pentium III 133FSB 256K FCPGA 933 Box .. $309
>Pentium III 133FSB 256K FCPGA 866 Box .. $259
>Pentium II 266 OEM ..................... $89
>Celeron 1100 .18 128K FCPGA Box ........ $169
>Celeron 1000 .18 128K FCPGA Box ........ $149
>Celeron 950 .18 128K FCPGA Box ......... $139
>Celeron 900 .18 128K FCPGA Box ......... $129
>Celeron 850 .18 128K FCPGA Box ......... $112
>Celeron 800 .18 128K FCPGA Box ......... $99
>Pentium 233MMX OEM ..................... $74
>Athlon XP 2#00+ 1###MHz SktA OEM ....... $529
>Athlon XP 2000+ 1667MHz SktA OEM ....... $459
>Athlon XP 1900+ 1600MHz SktA OEM ....... $439 N
>Athlon XP 1800+ 1533MHz SktA OEM ....... $359
>Athlon XP 1700+ 1467MHz SktA OEM ....... $269
>Athlon XP 1600+ 1400MHz SktA Box ....... Call
>Athlon XP 1600+ 1400MHz SktA OEM ....... $209
>Athlon MP 1900+ 1600MHz SktA OEM ....... $499
>Athlon MP 1800+ 1533MHz SktA OEM ....... $449
>Athlon MP 1600+ 1400MHz SktA OEM ....... $299
>Athlon MP 1500+ 1333MHz SktA OEM ....... $279
>Athlon MP 1200 SktA OEM ................ $279 S> $239
>Athlon TBird-C 266FSB 1400 SktA OEM .... $199
>Athlon TBird-C 266FSB 1333 SktA OEM .... $189
>Athlon TBird-C 266FSB 1200 SktA OEM .... $169
>Athlon TBird-C 266FSB 1133 SktA OEM .... $152
>Athlon TBird-C 266FSB 1000 SktA OEM .... $129
>Athlon ThunderBird 1300 SktA OEM ....... $189
>Athlon ThunderBird 1200 SktA OEM ....... $168
>Athlon ThunderBird 1000 SktA OEM ....... $129
>Duron 1200 SktA OEM .................... $149
>Duron 1100 SktA OEM .................... $139
>Duron 1000 SktA OEM .................... $125
>Duron 950 SktA OEM ..................... $119
>Duron 900 SktA OEM ..................... $109
>Duron 850 SktA OEM ..................... $99
>Duron 800 SktA OEM ..................... $95
>Duron 750 SktA OEM ..................... $89
>AMD K6-2 3D 550 100MHz OEM ............. $80

[OC-Master]

Might I also add that the XP2000 will be instock 2nd Monday into the month! (Jan) of course!

:D

[Eliminator]

You must live overseas, I'm guessing.

Or are they raising the prices about $100 ?

[rugby]

Are those Canadien dollars? If not those are the worst prices I've ever seen.

[OC-Master]

Yes, they are Canadian dollers, just remove 55% to get American prices.

ex: $299.99 is approx $194.99 US.

[Maximus Nickus]

After reading this I just cancelled my 1900+ order!

When will they be available in the UK????

I have a 1GHZ T-Bird but i heard that if u upgrade to a XP CPU you have to install everything again so it installs the SSE2 things...

SO when can I get em in da UK????

[OC-Master]

In UK, XP2000 should be out mid January for sure but the XP2100 could be later like the first or second week in February. I would wait! ;)

Hmm, yea, expect prices to be low to cause Intel has Northwood ready now.


note,
its to get SSE1 working bro, AthlonXP's still dont have SSE2 :( gatta wait till Barton comes, but yeah, you would have to redue the operating system!

[Maximus Nickus]

Originally posted by AXIA
In UK, XP2000 should be out mid January for sure but the XP2100 could be later like the first or second week in February. I would wait! ;)

Hmm, yea, expect prices to be low to cause Intel has Northwood ready now.


note,
its to get SSE1 working bro, AthlonXP's still dont have SSE2 :( gatta wait till Barton comes, but yeah, you would have to redue the operating system!

What are the Northwood CPU's?
How long till the 2200+? I mean i'm gonna end up keeping on waiting for ever!!! (Need the system up quick...:rolleyes: )

That Barton thing, were you reffering to AMD's new line of CPU's? I think there codename is the Hammer.


Thanks, You know of a UK vendor?

Nick:cool:

[Maximus Nickus]

I think i'll wait for the 2100+ that 1733Mhz!!!! I should be able to hit 2Ghz with that, I mean the average OC for CPU's is about 20% (I've always got about 35% minimum!!!) however the 2200+ will be 1.8Ghz.....

My Alpha will have to wait!

How come AMD have no info? Sorry for two posts:rolleyes: but hey:beer: :eek:

[minoukat]

if anyone lives in the region of Ottawa-Carleton, there's a small shop, OEM Express (www.oemexpress.com) that has lower prices than these (the duron 900, in exemple, is sold @ $94 instead of instead of $109, and there are other better prices

[OC-Master]

Dont forget, these are the highest suggested values as of that date stated. So expect to see 5~10%+ cheaper on almost everything.

[Maximus Nickus]

You know of a UK url? I would like to pre-order one.....

Does anyone know when the 2200+ will be out? I mean 1.8Ghz will easily hit 2Ghz...

How come AMD has no info?

[OC-Master]

I think AMD is having problems with the 1.8GHz AthlonXPs. It appears that they just get way to hot when operating with a standard cooling solution. I wouldnt expect the XP2200 to at least March or even april. Might I last add that I dont think it will be 1.8GHz but rather 1.86GHz. You see, the northwood pentium4 processor changes the way the Athlon stacks up against it in terms of performance, and so for the XP2200 should = 1866MHz.

In reality, the Athlon will eventually fall from the new Pentium4 northwood which has a heck of alot more cache to bring it back up to speed.

AMD will need 133MHz for every 100MHz Intel adds.

BUT, This will all change when 333fsb is introduced and then AMD will = MHz/ MHz with Intel but with AMD having 400MHz less.

So the XP2400 if ever existed would be a 2000MHz (2GHz 333FSB Processor).

[Maximus Nickus]

I sohuld be able to get a 2100+ to 2Ghz no worries, whats a good place to get em from UK?

How come there having problems at 1.8Ghz? (link to AMD's site...) only a 66Mhz step and heat problems?

More info on the Northwood as well, will it be more effiecient than AMD or what?

If I get it right AMD will be the same as Intel 2Ghz=2Ghz not 1.6=2 etc but they will be 400Mhz behind?

Man...and intel have new RAM!!!

Thats why I love oc'ing i'll have 333DDR!!!

[OC-Master]

I'm hereing stories of the XP2200 being about and being a Throughbred processor that runs with a 1.6V Core. I'll update everyone as soon as I find out more;)

[Dissolved]

im just gonna wait for the Throughbred to come out, it suppose to me cooler, run lower voltage, and i hope to get 2ghz with it :)

hmmm i hope it comes out early..

[Maximus Nickus]

Really? Will the thoroughbred work on my 8KHA+????

What is the thoroughbred???

If it runs at only 1.65V then setting it to 1.85 is like having our CPU's that we have at the moment to 1.95!

WOW!

Info! You said it would be 1.86Ghz?

[OC-Master]

XP2200 = 1866MHz Palamino processor (1.75V) Highly doubt this one thou! since the Palamino becomes inpossible to achive stability with 1.75V @ 1.86GHz.

XP2200 = 1800MHz T-bred processor (1.60V) - I can see this in stores mid February.

[Maximus Nickus]

I still don't get whats meant by the term "Thoroughbred", I mean does it have a diff inside (planning etc) or diff Micro process? As you said they couldn't get 1866 @ 1.75V but the T-Bred gets 1800 @ 1.65V!!!

How fast will the new Intel be? Are AMD finally gonna be beaten...? I doubt it!!:beer:


P.S. Thanks for the info I nearly made a big mistake of getting a 1900+!!!!

[Wahoogie]

I'm waiting for the 2200+ thoruoghbred, that or a .13 thoroughbred... much better :)

[Dissolved]

oh baby, yes... orginally it was suppose to be a thunderbird.. but i guess they desided to go with the xp for the thorobred..
kinda sucks, seeing it will be harder to unlock.. but i do want my 2ghz mmmmmmmmmm :)

[Maximus Nickus]

The question is when will the 2200+ thoroughbred be out? And does it have a .13Micron process? If it does then oc like crazy!

[Dissolved]

Originally posted by nick_cw
The question is when will the 2200+ thoroughbred be out? And does it have a .13Micron process? If it does then oc like crazy!

yuh, it should be out be4 august.. 2nd q02, it says on various roadmaps ive seen floating around..
it should do 2ghz easy, seeing its 1.8ghz and a 200mhz gain is common for some amds. deneding on ur method of cooling..

[Maximus Nickus]

I heard it was out early 2002/

[Dissolved]

2Q02 is early isnt it? :D

i dont wanna wait that long, but what can i do about it..
getting tired of my .14ghz not wanting to do 1.5ghz or more :(

[Maximus Nickus]

What is the thoroughbred????

Is it the next generation Hammer CPU (diff socket etc) or a .13Micron XP which is at 1.8Ghz!!

I originally thought AXIA said it was a XP running @ 1.8Ghz with a VCore of 1.65V!!!!
Imagine the OC!!!

[minoukat]

Originally posted by nick_cw
What is the thoroughbred????

Is it the next generation Hammer CPU (diff socket etc) or a .13Micron XP which is at 1.8Ghz!!

I originally thought AXIA said it was a XP running @ 1.8Ghz with a VCore of 1.65V!!!!
Imagine the OC!!!

The thoroughbred is the next AthlonXP, that will succeed the Palomino, and that will run on a .13micron. check out AMD's roadmap : http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_608,00.html

[Maximus Nickus]

Will it work with existing XP boards that are compatible with XP cpu's?

[minoukat]

Originally posted by nick_cw
Will it work with existing XP boards that are compatible with XP cpu's?

No idea, too early to tell yet. maybe in a couple of weeks we'll get more info on what's compatible and what's not. Don't forget they'll be made in different manufacturing process, so there might be a couple of pin assignment changes, plus I think (or at least I wish !) they'll improve the thermal protection in athlons

[Maximus Nickus]

So what XP's that are out will be compatible with my 8KHA+ socket A Board?

I cancelled my 1900+ so I can get a 2200+ and if the .13Micron would fit then its like having 3.0ns ram, it would oc like crazy!!!

[OC-Master]

It will technically work with all existing Athlon motherboards (SOCKET A) and the only real change will be less heat and less voltage (1.60V) from a .13micon die size. So in theory, a 1.8GHz (XP2200) T-bred should hit 2100MHz with normal cooling (AIR) and 1.85V on the motherboard.

- had to mention that since this is a place of overclockin aint it!?
:D

last but not least, I LOVE how AMD is making 266fsb versions of the T-bred, it gives me goose bumps knowing older athlon motherboards will be able to feed this beast.

[OC-Master]

one last note,

2.00GHz will be the last 266fsb processor made for the AthlonXP line, after this 333fsb will countinue. I also heard, 2GHz will come in 266/333fsb flavours, interesting.

[Maximus Nickus]

Cool so when is it out?????

I would do a VOlt Mod to 2.2V imagine what that would give you!!!!

You could run 333FSB XP's in a 266 board by overclocking the FSB to 167Mhz, do this by buying memory that runs @ 333!

However 333boards probably have a PCI divider....

[OC-Master]

I'm just another AMD Fan that cant officially get all the insider goods :( but what I can tell yea, Throughbred will definately be here March, or early February!:D:rolleyes:

And for final notes, Sledgehammer & Clawhammer are 64-bit processors that are not of the X86 core but rather a new architexture all together. The Sledge boy and Claw girl;) use the EV7 bus which has over 3X the bandwidth of the current Athlons today! (EV6) And AMD will have a new name for these processors.
As for processing speeds, 533MHz QDR FSB sounds like fun to me. Too bad these processors were delayed another 10 months by one last Monster Athlon processor (Barton) which has 512KB Cache like the Northwood Pentium4. Barton will also be .13micron technology but will incorperate SSE2 Intel intructions (A.K.A - 3Dnow! ULTRA) and will float on 400MHz FSB 200DDR along with PC3200 (DDRII).


Personally, I will wait for the AthlonXP (15x133)(Throughbred) processor then make the upgrade and max out my motherboard's processor capabilities. I dont see the need to upgrade from a 1333MHz processor since no game out there truly can even begin to harness its capabilities. Doom3 might stand a chance, just maybe...

:beer: , that will about do it, my brain is weakening:eek:

for now...

[minoukat]

Originally posted by AXIA
And for final notes, Sledgehammer & Clawhammer are 64-bit processors that are not of the X86 core but rather a new architexture all together. The Sledge boy and Claw girl;) use the EV7 bus which has over 3X the bandwidth of the current Athlons today! (EV6) And AMD will have a new name for these processors.
As for processing speeds, 533MHz QDR FSB sounds like fun to me.

If they are 533MHz FSB, will they be 266MHz DDR or 133MHz QDR ?

[OC-Master]

133 x 4 (Quad-Data-Rate) EV7

[Maximus Nickus]

SO I should set the VCore to -.05V to set it as 1.65, I don't think its gonna default to that!!!!

[HugoHenry]

Don't expect a 20% OC capability with the XP. IT is on the .18 micron process and AMD is pushing this to the limits. You won't get much more out of what the chip already offers.
I have seen a 1800XP OC to 2.2Ghz but with water cool.
Intels next step is the 2.2Ghz Northwood, and will be good but they still don't efciently use there clock cycles so expect the AMD 21 or 2200 to be much faster.

[Maximus Nickus]

Were talking about the Thoroughbred which if my memory serves me correctly:eek: fits all Socket A/462 boards with XP compatibility but has a .13Micron core and only has a 1.65VCore, so setting the voltage to the Max in the BIOS is virtually the same as doing a volt mod to nearly 2V!!!

I can't wait.......

[OC-Master]

Yes, your correct, there will be alot more potential with the Throughbred with the .15V less power consumption.

Palamino = 1.75V possible .10V Gain with 1.85V

Throughbred = 1.60V:D = possible .25V Gain with 1.85V

With the T-Bred, MHz will no longer be an issue for AMD. This processor will have the capabilities to ramp em mhz up but the fsb will become a bottleneck problem, and in my opinion, AMD should have skipped 333fsb and go strait to 400fsb. AMD will try to get 3GHz out of a 333MHz FSB which will be a major slow down:rolleyes: but by time they hit 3GHz, the Barton chips should be ready with a 400fsb which solves the problem:p

[OC-Master]

And with the strong support for PC2100 memory, I dont see 333fsb till 2GHz Athlons at least!:p

[OC-Master]

I would just like to update everyone that the XP2000 will be the last Palamino AthlonXP processor.

The XP2200 will be the Throughbred (T-bred) core and will run 25~33% cooler and will start at a clock speed of 1.8GHz.

The XP2100 was apparently canceled due to the performance/marketing pressure the new 2200MHz northwood processors and the new scale design used by AMD to compete with the newer Pentium4 Core.

AthlonXP processors will now only increase with 133MHz and not 66MHz with the Exception of the AthlonXP 2500 which will be a 2GHz Throughbred which is used to compare with the 2533MHz Northwood (533fsb).

Last, just a wild guess, but 333fsb will only be from 2GHz so looks like were gonna change motherboards if you want the new fsb processor.



AXIA

[HugoHenry]

But when will it be released. The 2.2Northwood is being released the 2 week in january and the 2.4 shortly after. SO when can we expect the 2200? I am planing on buying a 1900 unless the 2000 or 2200 comes out soon.

[CrackedSKull]

wow, i didn't know they used the same sockets. My motherboard runs at 1.82v by defualt with the ability to add .4v to that. Thats a lot of power, and a lot of o/c power.

[OC-Master]

Ok, appearently, the XP2000 becomes avail-world wide January 7th. I saw this on 'The Register' two days ago.

anyhow, the XP2200 will be here -early to mid- February, unless AMD decides to make one last adjustment to there fab labs to be more efficent with the new .13m technology.

[HugoHenry]

So the 2200XP will be on the .13 micron process?
and teh 2000xp and below are on the .18 micron process. And I getting this correctly?

Is there planning on being a big difference between the 2000 and the 2200, cause I am building a new system but i don't want to wait for eternity for it. I could get the 2000 and OC to the 2200.

[OC-Master]

Palamino XP2000 = 1667MHz .18M 1.75V
Throughbred XP2200 = 1800MHz .13M 1.60V

Besides the Die shrink and lower power consumption, the Palamino and Throughbred are the same in everyway. Thou, I would wait for the XP2200 since it will overclock six times as high as what the XP2000 could achive in an overclock. With .13M technology, the XP2200 should hit 2GHz without even a voltage upping.


AXIA

:D

[tainice]

it seems AMD will be having a extremely promising future indeed! but i am just wondering how well the new Barton against matured Northernwood...interesting to see:)

[Maximus Nickus]

Originally posted by AXIA
Palamino XP2000 = 1667MHz .18M 1.75V
Throughbred XP2200 = 1800MHz .13M 1.60V

Besides the Die shrink and lower power consumption, the Palamino and Throughbred are the same in everyway. Thou, I would wait for the XP2200 since it will overclock six times as high as what the XP2000 could achive in an overclock. With .13M technology, the XP2200 should hit 2GHz without even a voltage upping.


AXIA

:D


As long as it fits my Socket A board I don't care!!!! Intel look good though I mean, 533Mhz FSB??? I mean there memory will be about 1Ghz!!!

How on earth can the 266FSB 2200+ Thoroughbred compete?
When will AMD change the socket?

One last question will the 2200+ have any new Features like SSE2?????

Have a :beer:



Merry Christmas!!!!:D

[HugoHenry]

The 2.2Ghz Norhwood is going to be a tough competitor, but IT will still not sufficiently use its clock cycles. It is trying to go with a bigger pipe depth to get more information out at a time, meaning greater bandwidth using ram and pipe depth. But its XP great use of clock cycles that makes it so impressive. The ram on the Intel processor blows away any DDR ram, but the 2200XP will most likely blow by the Intle. In the benches against the 1900XP -vs- the 2.0GHz the 1900 leads the way and in some cases even the 1,4 athon out doing the 2.0 Intel.

[daddyloy]

What is SSE2 does the xp have it? Which CPU does have it?

[OC-Master]

the Throughbred has the same features as the Palamino (current XPs) and does not contain SSE2. Barton will feature SSE2 and 512KB L2 Cache.

[el]

Originally posted by HugoHenry
Don't expect a 20% OC capability with the XP. IT is on the .18 micron process and AMD is pushing this to the limits. You won't get much more out of what the chip already offers.
I have seen a 1800XP OC to 2.2Ghz but with water cool.
Intels next step is the 2.2Ghz Northwood, and will be good but they still don't efciently use there clock cycles so expect the AMD 21 or 2200 to be much faster.


yes but the newer 1600+ will overclocker better and the prices will drop!! oh yeah!

[OC-Master]

From what I understand, there will be only four more 266FSB Athlon processors, and then 333FSB will countinue and compete against the powerful 533FSB Pentium4 processors.

That includes the XP2000/XP2200/XP2400 and (XP2500 which is just a rumor still (2000MHz CPU)).

What this means is that anyone planing to upgrade should stay clear of 266FSB motherboards and instead invest in a 333FSB motherboard which will be out March. Its worth the two month wait. Look for the KT333 and AMD770 Chipset to bring in the 333FSB.

Of course, VIA will have the KT333a by fall which will bring AGP8X, and Serial ATA.

[el]

Originally posted by nick_cw



As long as it fits my Socket A board I don't care!!!! Intel look good though I mean, 533Mhz FSB??? I mean there memory will be about 1Ghz!!!

How on earth can the 266FSB 2200+ Thoroughbred compete?
When will AMD change the socket?

One last question will the 2200+ have any new Features like SSE2?????

Have a :beer:



Merry Christmas!!!!:D

Intel looking good well northwoods are going to open at 700 dollars still look like a good chip?

[OC-Master]

EL,

The Throughbred (XP2200) processor will run at 1.8GHz and feature .13M technology. With this, you will have overclocking potential well over the 2GHz mark. I'm thinking that most people should hit at least 2.1/2.2GHz with these newer processors(possible 400MHz gains). This is easily done since the T-bred uses only 1.600V and most boards support up to 1.850v which means you got alot more head room for overclocking.

The XP1600 can hit 1.60GHz with 1.85V (without VMOD). 200MHz Gain

The XP2200 can hit possibly hit 2.20GHz with 1.85V (without VMOD). 400MHz Gain

[Maximus Nickus]

333Boards looking good but i'm lucky as my 266board hits 333FSB quite easy!

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[el]

will the .13 run at lower vcore? that is what I thought.

[Maximus Nickus]

Its 1.65V or -.10V on our boards!