Car Video + Computer (want help!)

[Sushiman]

Hey guys... I was thinking of putting a computer into my car, so i can play mp3's and bad ass plugins to impress the ladies.... and I was wondering if you guys had suggestions. Any of you done this? Here is what i currently have.


-amd k62, ati 3d w/tv out (composite), SB card (ultra slim flat case... although i may just mount the mobo without the case)
-5.6 in video monitor (for cars) w/composite cable in
-panasonic stereo head unit (2 preouts for front/rear, 1 for subs, and auxilliary input)

I figure everything will go together well... all the cables are composite (RCA) so that wouldnt be the problem. I was wondering more about how people powered the stuff. Where did you place the video screen?

Thanks,
Mark

:burn:

[SpeeDj]

Take a look for a voltage converter, you need one that supplies power off an 12v line. They do exist just do a search on it and see what you pop up with. Most people that have tried it have done it with a Single Board Computer.

I will see if I can find some more info for you.

http://www.anders.com/projects/route66/

J

[Sushiman]

well here is the thing with the voltage.... the computer runs off internal 12v but has a 120v AC... It would be neat to be able to go directly car 12v to computer 12v ... but I think that there might be power spikes etc. I was thinking about doing something where i get one of the converters that plugs into the lighter socket. Do computers take any juice while they are off? I dont need my battery dying on me. I also want to be able to turn the comp on and off at my leisure (not tying it to ignition... i think i would blow the PS if my car for some reason didnt start and i had to constantly recrank the car) .... Any more suggestions guys?

Mark

[Monaco]

main problem is power- even with a convertor, your car may not put out clean enough juice to run a PC reliably. You can get smoothing or conditioning convertors to fix that but they ain't cheap.

also, depending on the car, you may not have enough power left over after AC, headlights, etc to run the PC. In that case a new alternator is the only cure. Nicer cars usually have enough juice left though.

yah, like speedj said, a single board comp is the best plan. The fewer components, the better.

You definately need to use the PC's power supply, a car puts out 12V but a PC needs 3.3 and 5V as well.

[drunkmonkey]

I would say put the mobo, hd, etc. in the trunk w/ no computer case(build it into your car). Then run the CDRom, cables,power switch, etc. to convienient locations. Get a wireless keyboard and mouse. Also a macro pad would be nice so when ur girl wants to get it on in the back seat you'll only have to press one button to get the music playin.:D lol
Radioshack sells the 12V to 120V converter you'll need for the power supply.
If you really wanna be fancy, get a small projector that wil display the screen on your winshield and place it in the back.
Any other questions?

[Monaco]

Radioshack sells the 12V to 120V converter you'll need for the power supply

catalog no. 22-138, $149.99. Yes I used to work at RS:)

That one does 200 watts; I'd not plan on pulling more than 100 from it on a regular basis. Peak is supposed to be 700W, yah right:D

It also does not perform any line smoothing or conditioning- a PC on one of these will very likely reboot constantly as the power sine squiggles around. Ones that condition, expect at least 2X the price.

Been a lot of threads like this lately; I'm gonna call my old shop and ask what they use for car PCs these days!

[Kaneda]

why dont u just goto www.crutchfield.com get yourself a mp3 compatible head unit, and a cdr for ur computer

[CrystalMethod]

Originally posted by Monster of Rock
main problem is power- even with a convertor, your car may not put out clean enough juice to run a PC reliably. You can get smoothing or conditioning convertors to fix that but they ain't cheap.

also, depending on the car, you may not have enough power left over after AC, headlights, etc to run the PC. In that case a new alternator is the only cure. Nicer cars usually have enough juice left though.

yah, like speedj said, a single board comp is the best plan. The fewer components, the better.

You definately need to use the PC's power supply, a car puts out 12V but a PC needs 3.3 and 5V as well.
Speak for yourself, I run dual batteries, inline power conditioner for the stereo, amps, etc... Running a computer would be no problem except for the bumps and jolts it'd get from having a hard suspension. Hdd's have a tendency to not like being knocked around while reading from them.

[SpeeDj]

The route 66 project used a 12v power supply made just for PC boards, well SBC that is. Just an FYI, that article was published in maximumpc, if anyone has it post up some details. I currently don't know where mine is at.

J

[Monaco]

Speak for yourself, I run dual batteries, inline power conditioner for the stereo, amps, etc... Running a computer would be no problem except for the bumps and jolts it'd get from having a hard suspension. Hdd's have a tendency to not like being knocked around while reading from them.


well yah, but not every vehicle has a fully pimped electrical system like that. Few do.

As for the HDs getting jostled around... we solved that by using smart cards instead, they are really expensive but don't mind bumps. I imagine a HD in a car would probably die a painful death:)

[Crash893]

Originally posted by DrewBoOty
why dont u just goto www.crutchfield.com get yourself a mp3 compatible head unit, and a cdr for ur computer

Becuase thats to easy ( this is an overclocker project)


if i were you i would get one of thouse inverters you plug into your cig outlet => ac and then plug a UPS into that ( just a small 15 min one) and then plug your computer into that

this will let you run your computer with out worry of power spikes

and i was thinking hook the ups so it will shut down the computer when the power stops ( turn the car off and the computer starts its shut down properly)

i saw a really @$$ kicken site on how to do the lcd screen AND a little lcd screen to select songs and stuff


ill see if i can find it for you

[Kaneda]

ahhhh, lol nicely put :burn: :)

[Monaco]

also an in-dash player can't play Winamp plugins:D Nor have 20 gigs of MP3s sorted by artist...A car PC would be better, but I gotta say- those in-dash MP3 players are pretty freaking cool!

My next car CD player will definately have an MP3 player in it, whether I have to build it or buy it!:)

[SpeeDj]

http://www.pjrc.com/tech/mp3/

How bout this, at 150$ Minus hard drive, which I am sure you savvy folks could find a suitable one it seems a steal, and it runs off a 12Volt power. Might be a good find.

J

[Monaco]

well well well speedj! nice link there, I saw that and immediately began mentally building a system around it!:)

I'm gonna have to spend some time on that, it looks really interesting!

[SpeeDj]

Trust me and at only 40+ for a huge display, granted that button config has got to go. Being the overclockers we are we could mix it up a bit better. I have done some browsing on their forum and it seems after getting a more stable release of the program code *Some releases work fine, some are buggy* they are going to try and add Ethernet capabilities to it. Which would rock!

J

[Sushiman]

As crash said below... i think the power converter and UPS is a great idea... save a lot of hassle and money there, the UPS would constantly recharge and take care of any power spikes... thumbs up with that idea.

Now... to the guy with all the batteries... I have a car stereo system. One front/rear channel amp, One subwoofer Amp and everything seems to run fine, no alternator problems. Do you think adding the computer on will be pushing this overboard? Shoudl i get a second battery for the stereo and amps and put the computer on the car battery?

To the person who said put the stuff in the trunk... How am I going to get a cd rom all the way to the front of the car? are there ide cables that long? The LCD shouldnt be hard.. that only takes a RCA cable, power cable also no problem.

As for the hard drive bouncing... It really isnt that hard to come up with a chassis that provides enough protection. In fact... I think suspending the hardrive so it isnt attached to the car or case except by a few strings. .... Lower shocks

[etrosclair]

hey bro, what kinda car is it? most of your newer imports run at least a 100 amp alternator stock, which is pretty good. total wattage rms is also what determines how big a stiffening cap should be. anything over say 600 to 700 watts should use 1 farad cap. this should take care of any spikes, etc. if you feel you need a second battery then run it along with the other battery, not in addition to it. i have a 600 watt amp and i run a laptop and canon printer at the same time in my new silverado & no problems....hope this helps.

[etrosclair]

oops. i meant in addition to the stock battery, not a separate system...:beer:

[Monaco]

sushiman- HDs are WAAAY more sensitive to shock than a CD player for example- I'm sure you could make a pretty good shock-absorbing mount for it, but the one time that mount is not quite enough to damp the whole shock, you have a dead HD. Personally I wouldn't risk it, but that's just me. Also I drive like a maniac:)

Adding batteries can create problems- you Alternator will now have double the load on it, be sure it's strong enough- just a few years ago, 40-60A was very common in midsizes\compacts.

etrosclair- I have to comment on you Cap idea. I did the mobile audio comp circuit for a while, and in my experiance, single caps were just a waste of time. They take far too long to charge, and they can create weird volume transients depending on the music. Also they are only useful if you push your system to it's absolute max on a regular basis- for normal operation they won't do anything. An offset array of caps work a bit better, but at that point it's just time for a new alternator instead. Also- your Silverado has an enormously overbuilt electrical system. It is a work truck, after all:D A Civic wil be a different story...

So if you're going to play Bass CDs at a comp, then a cap array is probably a good idea. For an MP3 player in the car, it won't help at all- caps give an assist during extremely high transient amperage demands, if there's not enough juice in the first place a cap won't help.

Easy way to be sure- pop the hood, and look at your alternator! It should be labeled with amperage numbers.:)

That's what I think, anyway. Just my opinion.

[trey_w]

i've done it, its rather easy

in fact, me and my dad are in the process of constructing a comp for a chevy truck

i can't go into great detail, because if all goes well, a patent will be obtained

anyways, how about being able to pull into your driveway and connecting wirelessly to your home comp and download movies and songs

i would like to say that me and my dad thought of this, but 3com had the concept at Comdex i believe.


but we can always improve upon it, he did the WIFI system at DELL, and we are just waiting on the new 802.11 standards to be released

[Sushiman]

no offense to you Trey... but the wireless idea is fairly common. Both my friend and I thought of that independently... But with the car amps.... what is a good enough amount? I havent had time to check my car alt yet. I have a honda prelude 91 ... but i replaced the alternator a while ago, so at least that is new. As for the hardrive... people say dont do it... But how does everybody else do the computers in their car? My opinion here .... as long as the hardrive is suspended in some fashion where it can move with the motion of the car it would be alright. Such as a string hanging from the ceiling (obviously this would be impractical in a car... but you get the point) This would provide for zero shock. Essentially if the hardrive is mounted "mid air" so to speak... or through strings attached etc.... no shock, right?The other option I think is to use a shock absorbent material which at this point i cant think of anything that would do a really good job, barring 5 pounds of cotton underneath the hardrive.

[Monaco]

well momentum will still be a factor- the drive will need to be solidly attached to the car to be treated as a single unit of momentum...but a bunch of springs suspending it in midair will help a great deal! That is a good idea, it's just that it needs to be absolutley perfect cuz one bump and POOF no more tunes!:) I imagine that there's gotta be some way to insulate it good enough tho, but I wouldn't know how to go about building it.

How about booting it off a Smartcard, and swapping big USB harddrives in and out like a CD changer? Those suckers are like shockproof already, I drop mine and kick it around and stuff and it still works perfect:) That'd be expensive but pretty cool.

oh and the wireless car idea is pretty frickin neat IMHO.

BTW my 97 ALtima has a 75A alternator as I remember, and my two speaker amps pull enough juice to dim the lights and stuff on loud passages. I imagine in that case you could just play it quiet, but who'd want that?:)

[Sushiman]

Well.... How are those USB drives shockproofed? I dont really want to go out and spend money on buying one. The whole point of me doing this myself is because I have all the components already and I dont have to spend much more to do it...

[Monaco]

they use non-volatile flash memory chips instead of a spinning platter. Much more expensive, but know moving parts. You'd have to snap it in half to hurt it.

If you already go the components- give it a try! the worst that can happen is it don't work!:D

[trey_w]

did you not notice that i did not take credit , i said 3com has already produced it, but it can be modified and improved upon

[Sushiman]

I wasnt saying 3com had the first idea either... it probably was the government... those smart people are always years ahead of us.

[trey_w]

yes they are,

luckily, i find out about alot of things because of my dad

like the wireless stuff, right now it won't work with the 802.11 standard right now

we have to wait for the release of the 802.11a/e,g,ect....?

because there is not enough band width with the current wireless
and bluetooth was not as good as people thought

[Sushiman]

Im not as up to date on this 802 stuff, actually I really dont know much about what those numbers mean. I do know that i havent heard of anything wireless better than 11mbps, but I could just not be looking hard enough. With the blue tooth... i thought that was supposed to be 328kbps (or something like that)? Were you mentioning that because you would want wireless streaming video or video conferencing (or course you might crash then)? That would be a pretty cool idea...As for transfering stuff to my car... I just thought burning a cd would be just as quick... only takes a few minutes for that... then pop it into the cdrom in the car.... which also begs the question.... How can i trunk mount the mobo and have a dash mounted cdrom? There aren't cables that are that long... or work that far ? are there?

[Monaco]

IDE cables do have a maximum length. Past that max, they will still probably work, but will be prone to interference and errors, as well as a significant loss of speed.

I can't think of any way to have the CD up front and the rest in the trunk, but once you load up the HD with music you won't need the Cd drive too often. An LCD could be extended to the driver cab, and you could control it from there. But I don't know about a CD drive.

[Sushiman]

well thats what i figured also....but somebody above had mentioned trunk mount mobo and dash mount cd .. how long is the maximum length of an IDE cable? Can i find a five footer somewhere? I can at least get it from the trunk to the backseat...which then means i can at least load while i am driving (as my rear seat is very close to my front)

[trey_w]

the easiest way is to mount a small LCD screen in the factory radio location'

or you get a Alpine cva 1006 or the new Kenwood, both have LCD screens

The Kenwood is a touch screen. really cool, but expensive

anyways, the easiest way is to mount a notebook somewhere close to the dash.

and run the appropriate cables. Ive already done this and its not anything that the average joe in this forum can't do

now grant it, this idea won't work for everyone, it all depends on the size of the car.

anyways, the project i want to look into doing is basically taking you Tower and putting it in the car.

sometype of houseing can be molded to hold everything, and would be rather simple.

have you seen the type of stuff that can be done with fiberglass in car audio, wow

anyways, here is an example of how you would access your Rom drives and a floppy

you mount them like a car cd player

for me, it will be real simple. i have a chevy truck with a center console.

the comp can be hidden underneath the console and holes cut out for the ROM drive and floppy

have a keyboard flush mounted in you glove compartment, or have a wireless you can pass around the car

cooling is the best part of this, wouldn't this be the perfect time to intergrate liquid cooling?

don't have to worry about circulation for the most part and this would allow the comp to be hidden anywhere

and some will ask about power.

what i have in my truck is a 15 farad capacitor

you take an inverter and hard wire it into distribution blocks that come out from the capacitor

this will prevent fluctuations in current from the alternator and battery.

this is all just an idea. like i said, i will eventually do something like this but it is real expensive to do it right and for it to look good.

but i have taken a notebook and hooked it up to a LCD on my stereo deck, with a external Keyboard and mouse and it gave the same affect

it didn't take whole lot of skill, nor did it look as good as installing a the full blown system as described above but it gave the same results

and lots of ideas

and i doubt i am the only one who has done this, but i just thought i would share this