1.2ghz Celeron system questions.

[speedy4500]

Someone has inquired about having me build a computer. The system should have good performance, quiet, cool, low power consumption, small and low cost. It will be used for internet, desktop publishing, and some games (typical family computer). The following is what I think would fit the bill:

MSI NetPC Barebone: http://www.msicomputer.com/product/netpc/6215T.htm

256MB PC133, CAS2 RAM
30GB or 40GB internal IDE HDD
Pioneer or AOpen slot load DVD
PCI video card (gasp! there are some MX400s out there that look pretty decent, though)
Integrated sound on the motherboard
Viewsonic 15" LCD (newer model with good pixel response, VG151 i think is the model name)

The Firewire and USB ports would allow future expansion with external CDRW or hard drive or whatever else.

Now the questions and concerns:

The 1.2 Celeron is .13 micron process, right?

If it is, should I be able to run it at 133 FSB (12*133=1.6 GHz) all the time without worrying? Or should I aim for something in between, such as about 117 FSB (12*117=1.4 GHz)...I would like to squeeze as much performance out of this little machine as possible, but without risking any reliability whatsoever. The people for whom I would build this should not be having to knock the FSB down a few MHz when it is hot outside or if they don't need the extra speed. It will have to run at whatever speed 24-7-52.

If I do overclock it, what kind of cooling would be necessary? There is a 1U rackmount low-profile copper cooler on the market that is quiet too (i think a company called Speeze makes it), and I thought that it would be a good addition.

The barebone comes with a 90w PSU: will that be enough to run a hard drive, dvd drive, MX400 vid card, 1.2 celly, HSF, floppy drive, sound, etc? How much more of a strain will be placed on the PSU if the Celly is overclocked?

Operating System: WinXP Home, WinMe, Win98SE?


I figure the total for all this should hover around $1000, which is approximately what the person would want to spend.

Thanks for any advice.

[Yodums]

Buying straight from branded is not a good idea reasons will vary as if they do not give the full details and such its much cheaper if you buy part by part and snap it together heres my recommendation for the rig that will be very affordable as well overclockable.

Here it is!

Abit ST6
Celeron 1.2 Tualatin
Crucial Ram 256-512
Radeon 7500(gamer) or 7200(minimum game)
IBM 40gig
Enermax PSU
Full Tower
ThermalRight SK6

There's a kit that will support all their needs that will overclock and match other top notch cpus !

[Dark Illusion]

Originally posted by speedy4500

MSI NetPC Barebone: http://www.msicomputer.com/product/netpc/6215T.htm

256MB PC133, CAS2 RAM
30GB or 40GB internal IDE HDD
Pioneer or AOpen slot load DVD
PCI video card (gasp! there are some MX400s out there that look pretty decent, though)
Integrated sound on the motherboard
Viewsonic 15" LCD (newer model with good pixel response, VG151 i think is the model name)

Skip the 15" monitor and go for a bigger CRT. At 15" you're going to be quinting a lot. At least 17" would be ideal. The PCI video card is going to be hurting you a lot. That'll be the bottleneck for games. 1.2ghz is overkill if you're going w/ a PCI card. I would get a Radeon LE and hack it up to a regular Radeon, It would be faster than the MX400. Should be only $85. Best bang for your buck.


The Firewire and USB ports would allow future expansion with external CDRW or hard drive or whatever else.

Now the questions and concerns:

The 1.2 Celeron is .13 micron process, right?

If it is, should I be able to run it at 133 FSB (12*133=1.6 GHz) all the time without worrying? Or should I aim for something in between, such as about 117 FSB (12*117=1.4 GHz)...I would like to squeeze as much performance out of this little machine as possible, but without risking any reliability whatsoever. The people for whom I would build this should not be having to knock the FSB down a few MHz when it is hot outside or if they don't need the extra speed. It will have to run at whatever speed 24-7-52.

Not only that but you're going to have to make sure your mobo support the Celeron/T. Tualatin chip pin layout is different from the previous PIII's.

The barebone comes with a 90w PSU: will that be enough to run a hard drive, dvd drive, MX400 vid card, 1.2 celly, HSF, floppy drive, sound, etc? How much more of a strain will be placed on the PSU if the Celly is overclocked?

Nope 90W PSU is not even close to enough. You might be able to run your HDD and vidcard on a 90W. That's about it. Don't skim on the PSU as it supplies your whole rig w/ power. You could probably get away with a 250W, but I'd say go for a 300W incase you add more hardware later.

Operating System: WinXP Home, WinMe, Win98SE?

WinXP Pro. I'd suggest. But if you must pick from the above, WinXP Home.

I figure the total for all this should hover around $1000, which is approximately what the person would want to spend.

There's no point to a 1.2Celeron/T if your video is the bottleneck. An 800mhz will do you just as well. You'd also be able to pick from loads more mobo's since there aren't too many supporting the Tualatin chip at the moment. At $1000 you're going to be hard-pressed for a system without skimping somewhere. That is, including the monitor.

[ol' man]

Originally posted by Dark Illusion


Skip the 15" monitor and go for a bigger CRT. At 15" you're going to be quinting a lot. At least 17" would be ideal. The PCI video card is going to be hurting you a lot. That'll be the bottleneck for games. 1.2ghz is overkill if you're going w/ a PCI card. I would get a Radeon LE and hack it up to a regular Radeon, It would be faster than the MX400. Should be only $85. Best bang for your buck.




Not only that but you're going to have to make sure your mobo support the Celeron/T. Tualatin chip pin layout is different from the previous PIII's.



Nope 90W PSU is not even close to enough. You might be able to run your HDD and vidcard on a 90W. That's about it. Don't skim on the PSU as it supplies your whole rig w/ power. You could probably get away with a 250W, but I'd say go for a 300W incase you add more hardware later.



WinXP Pro. I'd suggest. But if you must pick from the above, WinXP Home.



There's no point to a 1.2Celeron/T if your video is the bottleneck. An 800mhz will do you just as well. You'd also be able to pick from loads more mobo's since there aren't too many supporting the Tualatin chip at the moment. At $1000 you're going to be hard-pressed for a system without skimping somewhere. That is, including the monitor.

I am thinking he should be able to do it pretty good for $1000 or a bit more.

I spent $250 on chip, $150 on vid card, $150 on mobo, $150 on memory, $250 on 17" monitor and so on and built a incredable machine for $1300. Given that everything I mentioned above is about half price what it was when I bought it should help cut final costs signifigantly. Nopw is a very good time for the PC community and we must thank AMD for that:)

Though I still would not buy one of their chips yet.

[muddocktor]

That msi barebones thing looks like trouble, too compact for good ventilation and a POS psu. This is what I'd build for them:


Gigabyte GA-60XET-C mb -89 axiontech.com
Celeron 1.2 retail -106 compuplus.com
Pioneer DVD 106s 16X DVD drive -75 newegg.com
Crucial 256 mb Cas2 PC133 dimm -41 crucial.com
MAXTOR EIDE HARD DRIVE 30GB 7200RPM MODEL # 5T030H3 - OEM -82 newegg.com
Enlight medium tower case w/300 watt psu -47 newegg.com
Mitsumi floppy drive -9 newegg.com
D-Link 10/100 Mb PCI Ethernet NIC Adapter w/Wake on LAN Model DFE-530TX+ -11 newegg.com
ABIT SILURO MX400 NVIDIA GEFORCE2 MX400 64MB SDRAM - RETAIL -67 newegg.com
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition -100 newegg.com
VIEWSONIC VG151 15" 1024x768 TFT LCD MONITOR - RETAIL -379 newegg.com

Total: $1006 plus shipping, and that is getting that expensive LCD monitor included in price. Figure another $100 for shipping and you won't be too far off.

[ol' man]

I usually order the main things like the chip and mobo. The rest I can get for usually a very good price here in town. I mean you can buy crucial memory cas2 for like $34 in town. Not sure what you have local but if things go bad it is nice to have the store right there. I would weigh in that also with shipping. I have never thought about buying barebones. I have had the best success from scratch. WIll continue from scratch.

[speedy4500]

I think I may have stated the goal of this machine unclearly: the main purpose is to be a reliable, quiet, and small computer. Overclocking isn't the primary, secondary, or even tertiary goal of this machine. I was just thinking that OCing the darn thing would help the performance. Overclocking is not necessary at all, but it would be a nice addition.

That stated, I now believe that the MSI barebone system would not be sufficient. There are, however, many other "slim" style cases out there. Some surfing provided me this:

www.casedepot.com has a slim style case that fits microATX motherboard, and comes with a 150w PSU, and space for an additional case fan. Considering I have seen P4 systems running on 180w, 150 should be sufficient for a 1.2 Celeron/T.

Asus has a microATX mobo for Tualatin chips with integrated LAN, an AGP slot, etc....this would allow use of a perhaps a Radeon 7200/7500 or an MX400 card. Those seem to be the best choice for this type of machine. The case, however, does not come with an AGP riser card, but there are flexible AGP risers on the market which could be used.

All other things would remain the same, except for the addition of a Firewire PCI card, which is high on the list for the customer.

Any new comments? Please, though, remember that this is to be a SMALL and QUIET machine.

[ol' man]

Originally posted by speedy4500
I think I may have stated the goal of this machine unclearly: the main purpose is to be a reliable, quiet, and small computer. Overclocking isn't the primary, secondary, or even tertiary goal of this machine. I was just thinking that OCing the darn thing would help the performance. Overclocking is not necessary at all, but it would be a nice addition.

That stated, I now believe that the MSI barebone system would not be sufficient. There are, however, many other "slim" style cases out there. Some surfing provided me this:

www.casedepot.com has a slim style case that fits microATX motherboard, and comes with a 150w PSU, and space for an additional case fan. Considering I have seen P4 systems running on 180w, 150 should be sufficient for a 1.2 Celeron/T.

Asus has a microATX mobo for Tualatin chips with integrated LAN, an AGP slot, etc....this would allow use of a perhaps a Radeon 7200/7500 or an MX400 card. Those seem to be the best choice for this type of machine. The case, however, does not come with an AGP riser card, but there are flexible AGP risers on the market which could be used.

All other things would remain the same, except for the addition of a Firewire PCI card, which is high on the list for the customer.

Any new comments? Please, though, remember that this is to be a SMALL and QUIET machine.

To OC the .13u tualatin I would reccomend nothing short of 300w. My 250w could not keep up with my 1500MHz celery, I am thinking the 150w would hardely boot. I use a 300w. If you are buying new I would get a 350w~400w simply because it would future proff your system for upgrades.

If you are going to OC a celery I would not get an ASUS board unless you know for sure you can hit 1600MHz. Thought this has been explained enough? Do a search to know why.

[muddocktor]

I looked at those slim cases at your link and all the ones than are labeled slim and lay down horizontal look like they take a proprietary motherboard rigged for a riser. You might have a lot of trouble finding a board rigged up for this unless you are a company and can order mobo's by the 100's. Also, none of those slim cases w/mobo are listed as Tualatin-ready.

You could go however with that small minitower, #C36600; it has a 235 watt psu and it's dimensions are only 7.2x15.5x14.3 (WxDxH) . It only takes a MATX mobo and you could run the vid card of your choice in it. Also, Asus makes a Tualatin-ready MATX board, the TUSL2-M. It doesn't have onboard lan though; it has a CNR slot to add 1 if you can even find the things. It should still fit your needs though as it has 3 pci slots so that you could add a 1394 card and lan card and still have a pci slot left. The Celeron 1.2 that compuplus is selling is a retail w/hsf and should run very quiet and cool well enough at stock speeds. Hope this helps you out.

[Dark Illusion]

Originally posted by speedy4500
Asus has a microATX mobo for Tualatin chips with integrated LAN, an AGP slot, etc....this would allow use of a perhaps a Radeon 7200/7500 or an MX400 card. Those seem to be the best choice for this type of machine. The case, however, does not come with an AGP riser card, but there are flexible AGP risers on the market which could be used.

The reason I say go for a 800mhz PIII instead of a Celeron/T is because they cost about the same, ~$105, but the PIII800EB does 133FSB. You plan on not overclocking, so the 133FSB would give you a boost in mem bandwidth. Your video card is the bottleneck so a faster processor will do you no good.

When you mean small, you mean the Monitor included? I have an unused 15" Sony 15sf w/ a pippo sticker and a 21" Princeton Graphic Systems C2100 laying around.

$250 on 17" monitor and so on and built a incredable machine for $1300.

That's the problem w/ me. I've never gone for monitors that weren't at least $700. Then..I discovered LCD's. These cost at least $1500 for a good model. Bah=)